JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum That's How Life Works (Rob & Kay-lynn)

https://suno.com/s/w3eWRo9yZqHf893h


Huge cudos to Rob for this lyric!!....... I just said "when you row someone across the river, you get there yourself"


I am soooo pleased with this version, but now it's time to hear from you guys. I have something things I want to adjust,but dang, I like this one.

Any thoughts on changing the bridge, that's prolly gonna happen. but the point is... in the bridge, someone else is listening to their song on the radio and living out what they're talking about.

IMO

Two songwriters is too narrow a circumstance for the theme. (altruism)

Songwriters in a song-circle would relate but that would be a very narrow and esoteric audience.
Songwriter-centric.
Even with a ROM-COM ending like a big hit coming out of helping someone across a river.
The ROM-COM ending seems a bit gratuitous to me.

One person's opinion.

In the bridge why not say:

Farmer Jack was singing our song ...

That would make the connection to the songwriters clearer.

Poet, that's why I inserted the bridge................<<<<

I understand, but imo, the dye is cast before the bridge arrives and you are making the listener process details such as an old beat up guitar along with two parallel (morale of the story) altruistic outcomes.

IMO, the lyrics don't tie it all together neatly enough. seem narrow in appeal, and end with a gratuitously triumphant and cliche happy ending.

Sorry for the frankness. One person's opinion.

I love the chorus , Its an inside song on writers .Would it appeal to listeners ? I don't know

Aghhh I did not want you to slow down the last 8 miles and retain that energy..

and farmer jack was singing their singing....don't need hit.....??

I agree, but in the first verse it's "you and I", therefore "singing our song" would be better.

I do. People dont want to hear about my life or your life.
They want to hear about their life.

Farmer Jack’s singing our song
Out in a hay field ten miles long
Turns down the radio, looks back and smiles
Pulling his buddy’s tractor the last eight miles

My Life was a big hit for Billy Joel...

Farmer Jack’s we out there singing our song
Out in a hay field ten miles long
Turns down the radio, looks back and smiles
Pulling his buddy’s tractor
the last eight miles


yup that works too

Sure was. In 1978.
Billy Joel was a global superstar by 1977.
Star power and persona becomes a focus for the masses at that level of stardom.
The Kardashians achieved that level of interest with no talents beyond a BJ and endless addled rattling on and on, about this and that.

I don't count on it working for me.
I try to put other people's lives in my songs.

You correct about that, but that's why writer's make you see your life in their words.

Ok , finally finished after days of back and forth, and me 7 hours yesterday looking at every darn word.. LOL Here ya go. Drop you comments!!

https://suno.com/song/d6e2328c-71f3-46d7-ad08-a4f7ea4a6f61?sh=PyQn7yVrMmZSMp5i

This song collab started from scratch dec 23 from one line, one idea. Now dec 29 and done and pretty darn good too.

The first two verses are a light brush/rose-color, the very strong chorus comes to the rescue.

The story stays elevated with a hearthstone theme 3rd verse, and a great bridge that ties in very nicely.

Further, the song has legs into the future, as further verses can be added as inspiration strikes, and the chorus carries on.

In my suno playlist now.
Bill

Thanks for listening Bill!!............ worked very hard on those lines, every one of them............

Do your realize the farmers are listening to their own song on the radio years later?

I didn’t. These the same two fellows years later. Yes opry reference…missed that. song grows on a listener!

oh darn............ I was afraid of that.................did you miss the line "they heard THEIR song on the Opry?? while they're pulling the tractor. damn...

Yes I missed that. It makes the lyric deeper richer…

but I have a mental biase….too close to the songs creation. My minds eye sees Kay-Lynn and Rob, male/female team….so I took the third verse as a separate ‘example’ of chorus row boat bond.

Their song I heard in a generic sense….they have a playlist of lots of songs, that’s one of them which still works, still comes through full circle

[Verse]
You played it on that old beat-up Martin of yours
Said, “It ain’t much, but it’s honest, that’s for sure”
I called a friend who could help us get in
Never guessed that favor would turn into a win

Guys, I'm sorry for being the skeptic here, but V1 is "insider."
I dont' think that the young girl at the laundry mat listening to this on a radio playing in the background would have any idea what this is.
What is:
a beat up Martin
"get in" to where?
What "favor"
What "win"

[Verse]
A few months later, heard it on the opry show
Your name and mine right there and you know
We laughed in the truck, shook our heads and grinned
Funny how helping someone’s the way we both win

What is "it" that you heard on the opry show
For that matter, what is the "opry show."
"helping someone's" with exactly what?

[Chorus]
When you row another person across the river
Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver
Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works

Now we are in a "river?"
What exactly is a "shiver?" and what does it have to do with a "river?"
Is someone cold in/or on the river and shivering?

[Verse]
John’s tractor broke, he can’t plow his field
Old Jack can’t either cus he’s up in years
But he's got the tools just shift some gears
And he knows how to fix an old John Deer

Who is John? Where did he and his tractor come from?
Who is Jack?
Jack has tools and what is referenced by shifting what gears?

[Chorus]
When you row another person across the river
Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver
Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works

[Bridge]
Jack’s rockin and rollin John's singing along
Out there in the hay field 10 miles long
Turn down their song on the Awpree [Pause]....... and smile [long note]
Been pullin’ that tractor for the last 8
miles

Ok, so MAYBE they wrote a song, that made it to radio, and now some years later, they are listening to it sitting on tractors amongst crops.
I think that I've got it...but it took some analysis, that a casual listener is not likely to give it. And why would a random listener be concerned with Jack and John?

[Interlude chanting]
Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works
That’s how life works, whoa-oh-oh

[Final chorus]
When you row another person across the river
Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver
Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works

[Outro – fading chants]
Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works
Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works

I'm sorry for the negative feedback but I don't think that I'm dredging up points to pick at.
I dont think that your song explains itself well.

My guess: this song is a self congratulation regarding "collaborating." It may be that your minds are filling in too many gaps that a listeners would not.

Marty

The first two verses…I see opry as…hit song… and very hard to get a hit song in present day, so rose-coloured glasses view of song making machinery…….but it was way in the past..??…so easier to get an opry song….or lucky….it still fits…they are farmers not songwriters?

Can you elaborate?

Your response looks like an insider's viewpoint. You are aware of these things and dont need them to be made perfectly clear to you.
I assumed that they were the same songwriters, years later.
Are they two, randomly different people who helped each other get across the metaphorical river?

Marty….the song builds….and you finally get it by the bridge!

You don’t know what the shiver is?

Great in detailed review though….food for thought.

Bill

Thanks for all the feedback guys, positive or negative...........it's all valid.

The original quote for this song is.. "when you row someone across the river, you get there yourself"

So we're attempting so "illustrate" not TELL the listener.

I just sent it to my publisher, to get more feedback, I'll let ya know.

Different Mindset.
When I watch a European crime drama, often they introduce some event that has no context, and let the viewer try to figure it out with the detectives.

A song delivers a message fast. My belief is that the listener needs to clearly know what is going on at the end of every line. Country music anyways.

"He got joo joo eyeball. He one holy roller." is a different mindset.

And no, regarding "shiver." "Shiver me timbers" means the boat is tearing up. I can't make that reference work here.
I'm not a boater if it is a boat reference. I assumed someone was cold.

Special Note:
I'm not making up stuff to point out. These objections jump out at me and seem obvious.
Whoever wants to disregard them as nonsense is free to do so. They are one person's opinion. (maybe)

Signing off,
Marty

Yes it’s a challenge for the young girl at the laundry mat….but she is young and eventually will learn.

Marty me lad, you overthink. That is why you lyrics are four pages long…lol…just kidding.

It’s a puzzle. How does one tell an epic story in 32 lines. So few can do. Tough market.
Lonely at the top I expect
Bill

Hey Marty... Please review American Pie for us and explain it... (grins)............ I'm joking, but you see my point. right? It's all good.

You're not Billy Joel or 1970 whenever it came out , Its an inside song on the industry . See what her publisher says . Who knows they might love it

Darlin, the only thing about this song is that the example is about how you have to work together so you both get to the same place. It happens in all sorts of industries, and towns and neighbors all over the country. i.e. I need to run to down for groceries but I don't have a car, the neighbor has a car but no money for gas, so they both go to the store and they both win.

It's not a hard concept. All we did was give another example of farmer's helping each other so they could both get their fields plowed and it just turns how they're listening to the song they wrote years ago on the radio.

oh and big PS.............American Pie was written by Don Mclean one of the most prolific writers of the past 50 years.. hahah I guess you don't remember the song Vincent either?....<<<<<

Don't know why you keep referencing Billy Joel all the time.. LOL

Yes.......... correct, but I'm re-writing the bridge to make it more clear.

Thanks Bill!

When you're writing a song and you both get on the same page, yeah, it gives you shivers up your spine.

Same way as if you're rowing across a river............. hey, look at us.... we're both doing our part.

Kay-lynn started this song by posting the line: “When you row another person across the river, you get there yourself.” You’ve all seen how the song evolved from there.

The very first draft lived entirely in the songwriter world. After some thoughtful critique here, we didn’t want to rewrite the whole lyric, so we tried adding a real-world example of how this idea plays out — people crossing the river together and both winning when one helps the other. That’s where the farmer angle came in.

The challenge we’re running into is connection. We tried to tie that example back to the songwriter story, and it’s becoming clear that the link may not land for a casual listener. As Marty pointed out, if you have to think too hard to connect the dots, the song may be asking too much. Honestly, when Kay-lynn first presented her original farmer draft, I didn’t fully get it either — so that feedback rings true.

Maybe the answer is to stop trying to bridge two worlds and instead let each verse show a different example, with the chorus doing the unifying work. Or maybe we stay in one lane entirely. At the moment, we’re still sorting that out.

As for the line “Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver” — that’s a compressed metaphor, and it’s intentionally doing a lot of work at once:
• Two hands on the oars = both people are actively working; shared effort, not one person carrying the other
• Same song = literally, two songwriters; emotionally, two people aligned and moving toward the same goal
• Same shiver = that chills-up-the-spine moment when something clicks and you know it’s special

Put together, it’s about working side by side, believing in the same thing, and feeling the same spark at the same time.

Bill me lad, NO SALE.
I'm not overthinking...I'm just thinking.
The things that I brought up are basic.

The song is a Hallmark Card or Movie condensed into song form.
It is;

self-congratulating
warm and cuddly,
with a triumphant,
happy ending,
where the virtuous prevail..all of which is fine. I think that your word is "sachrinish."

The problem is that it would be hard to follow for a random tween listener without the detailed explanations that are occurring in this tread.

If something that should be simple takes a lot of explaining, there are almost always problems with it.

Believe what you will.
If you dont like my songs, I'll take that as a good sign....just kidding.

My understanding of a bridge is that it comes late in a song, and comes at the message from a different angle delivering an unseen realization to the listener.

If you are writing a bridge in order to give a song more clarity…something is wrong.

Football metaphor:
If you are down 2 touchdowns, with two minutes left in the 4th quarter, a field goal is pointless.

This makes my point.
You are not writing a term paper for an English Lit class where you break down a novel. It's been a long time, but I've done that.

You are writing a song.

If you are explaining "compressed metaphors," you have missed the point that country songs are simple things, common language, common understanding.

And the meaning of "same shiver" is idiosyncratic.
"Compressed metaphors-doing a lot of work at once"... is idiosyncratic, and will likely go unrealized by a listener.

I'm gonna leave this here before I get villanized for not buying into this song.
This is subjective matter and I can always be wrong.
But I don't think that a blanket dismissal of everything that I have brought up is correct.

I don't think verses lead to the lovely chorus , it kinda comes out of nowhere, At least to me

I agree with that.
In this message, imo, there is not a clear progression from the 1st line to the chorus, or to the second verse.
It seems unclear, or at least not clear enough, how the parts are associated.

The song should be about stories that people went thru to row across the river, its kinda a folk song hook , Not modern country

this might fix the bridge, what do you think?

Jack’s rockin’ and rollin’, John’s singin’ along
The Same two guys, are singin’ their own song
Turn off the radio, let the memory play… and smile
Still draggin that tractor for the last 8
miles

I revised the bridge, hope that helps.

https://suno.com/s/yLWELOQzIUrtNeV7

With revised bridge AND verse.

Does this make it clearer??

(crossing my fingers)

I like your songs, just never said so before.

Overthink idea is just something I read somewhere about the ‘intellectual’ realm and the. ‘artistic’ realm can clash.

Enjoying this discussion!
Bill