JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Brian Austin Whitney Blog Friday, June 29th, 2007

Hi Folks,

I was able to see the new movie SiCKO, which is Michael Moore's documentary on the Health Industry in the US. I've had my own problems with Moore's inserting political propaganda into some of his documentaries, but I don't care what your political bent is, this film may be the seed to finally revolutionize the most egregiously wrong thing in the US today.

As someone whose health suffered a great deal for a decade without health insurance (and who was turned down by everyone because of my various health conditions and only after getting married was able to get life saving medical care) I understand the terror of being sick and not having the money and resources to do anything about it, even though treatments and medications exist to save your life. This film actually brought me to tears, something that may be a first ever for a film in my life. It's far more tragic, in my opinion, than 911 or Katrina or even the Iraq war and terrorism. Those things are caused by evil people we can't control or mother nature. But the health care crises in the US is completely artificially caused by nothing more than rampant greed where people are not only allowed to die for profits, they are pushed along the way towards death for profits. If you watch this film and aren't angry at every single politician, from BOTH parties, who allows this to happen in the US, you've either been brainwashed beyond repair or have no soul.

Here's a link to it on Google video. I don't know how long it will be on line, but I know that Michael Moore has previously endorsed having movies and content free on the web, so perhaps he's allowing it to stay there. If you can get to a theater, go there and buy a ticket and see this film. If you can't get to a theater or it isn't playing near you, or you can't get to the movie until later, click this link and spend 2 hours coming to a horrifying realization that our US Society has lost part of it's soul on this issue. If you DO watch it.. consider buying a ticket on line to support the fact that someone finally is telling it like it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5198862711051405294&hl=en

Brian

Having been my mother's health care advocate for the past few years I have some first hand experience at the incapable,inexcusable,incompetent health care that exists here.
From just plain bad doctors to the negelect and incompetency of nursing homes my mother and I have survived the medical terror that exists here.
I had to medically rescue my mother from the incompetent doctors by firing them and finding her some new ones.
You would think that some red flags that were out there would have been seen by her medical insurance company but they were as neglectful as her doctors.
The best protection is to have as much knowledge as you possibly can about what ever ails you or a loved one and have a health care advocate,preferably a family member in your corner batting for you.
There are a few really good web sites where you can get medical information.

www.mayoclinic.com

www.nlm.nih.gov./medlineplus



We are a few of the lucky survivors of health care!

www.chinesemedicinesampler.com

is another source.

I would love to see this Sicko documentary.I saw Michale Moore on Oprah and it looked interesting.I'm on dialup,so down loading this would take forever.This medical situation in the USA is a black mark on the richest country in the world,and that is sad.The survival of the fitest should not apply to health and ones ability to pay,it should be based on need and compassion.It's a rot that is going to be hard to root out.Too many people making too much money out of it to let it go easily. Life is cheap when there is big money to be made,it would take a monumental movement by the masses to change this,but it can be done,but who would lead it?Brian?Michael Moore?Who?

Brian
It would take a lot to get me to watch a Michael Moore film. But I'll think about it.

I do not know what your situation was or why you were unable to get health care. I know every situation is different but I'll mention a few that I know of.

This I do Know.

I raised my grand daughter. Being my Grand daughter she did not qualify to be on our health insurance plan. So she had Medicaid. It was free. It paid for everything including dental But it did not cover braces on her teeth. That cost me about $7K.

My Daughter, as an adult, had no health insurance. She had two Knee operations. Both were free. She is currently on disability and all her medical needs are paid. They were also paid before she got disability and she had no health insurance. Her meds are about $2,000 a month. she has a one dollar copay on each.

My brother Broke his neck 15 years ago. He has never had health insurance. All his medical needs have been paid for since day one. He even gets a new electric wheelchair every few years. free.

My other Granddaughter got pregnant. If she married the father he would have had to put her on his Medical insurance. That was gonna cost him. So they didn't get married so she could be on medicaid. It paid for all her needs including the birth. After the birth the baby has been covered since day one, 100%. I think my Grand daughter is still getting free care as well.

My cousin had a stroke when he was 52. He had no health insurance. He was treated at the local hospital and then had rehab at a local rehab center. He also had a home health care nurse that went to his house once a week. All his meds were free. It was all paid for by the state. He never paid a dime.

My wife works in the ICU of a major hospital. She takes care of people every day who don't have insurance and will never pay a dime for the care they receive. and the bills can be astronomical.

The local health and welfare office is full of people(edit) everyday getting free health care, vaccinations, whatever they need. Free.
Very few of them speak English.
I know this first hand because it is the same office where I took my Granddaughter.

The last hospital my wife was at had to close their child birthing center because they could no longer afford to deliver babies for free. the majority being from mothers that could not speak English.

Well,
As long as there are humans in the process there will be errors from time to time. Much has been reported about the problems with health issues over the last many years.

One problem has been the Malpractice issue. It has been reported the the Malpractice insurance for doctors has been so outragious the many doctors have quit.
When someone who has a minor complaint can sue for millions of dollars and collect it does not help the high cost of health insurance.

Every nurse has to carry malpractice insurance in case they are sued for something. My wife has been a nurse for over 40 years so I have gotten some insight from time to time.

Every time the legislators try to fix the malpractice problem they have strong resistance, mostly from the Trial Lawyers.

The paperwork that is required to be completed is staggering. Much of it to help defend in case of a law suit. My wife has had to testify in frivelous lawsuits.

When people go before congress and testify about some problem the legislators may try to help by passing a law. Sometimes it makes the problem worse.

I can't suscribe to the assertation that the Medical Profession is all a bunch of greedy crooks just in it for the money.

No the health system in the U.S. isn't perfect.

I read in a recent issue of Consumer Reports that some 494 Emergency Rooms have closed around the Nation. That is where a lot of people go who don't have some type of health insurance.

I won't see the movie but wonder if Moore covered the people angle of where people asked for something from congress, got it, and how it helped or hurt the process.

One other problem is a nursing shortage. It is a regular problem here. Getting people to become nurses is difficult. I think the Garbage collectors in San Francisco were making more than my wife as a RN. And on it goes.

Bill,

I have diabetes, among other things. That precludes me from getting insurance. I was turned down over and over. During the 10 years I had no insurance, I spent between 1K and 2K a month on medication I needed to stay alive. I went to the hospital one on occassion (I didn't need to be admitted, but the hospitial insisted I was risking my life if I didn't... ) I told them (and even required an administrato come to the emergency room in person) that I had no insurance and would NOT be able to pay them. I wrote it on my admittance papers in the margin and initialed that I would not be able to pay. They admitted me anyway. Great right?

They did a few tests, gave me horrible treatment (it turned out that it was trapped gas.. I asked if that was possible at the start, they said NO!). In 19 hours at the hospital, the managed to cause my blood sugar to go to dangerously high levels (it was perfectly normal when I got there) because they refused to listen to anything I said about the insulin amounts I needed. Finally I left, feeling WORSE than when I went in. I went home, barely able to function.. took 2 anti gas pills and within a hour felt completely normal. That's all it was.

I got the bills, from 9 different companies.. 28K dollars. When I asked for a complete accounting of what was done to add up to that much, the hospital told me that they couldn't and wouldn't supply that. I had to call each company separately and ask them what they did. But that wouldn't allow me to compare all the info together to see if I actually received all this "care."

I investigated further and found that the cost I was charged for each supposed service was 2-20 times HIGHER than what an insurance company would have had to pay. Many services I was never able to verify were ever actually done.

At the time I got these bills, I was making less than 20K a year doing JPF. I was already paying ALL of that money for my monthly medical bills. I told the 9 different companies that were calling me multiple times per day that I had no money and didn't expect to have any money any time soon to pay for the bogus tests or bogus care I received. I told them I left with the same problem I went in with.. trapped gas. And that 2 anti gas capsules relieved all my symptoms within an hour. (I was in the Emergency room for nearly 5 hours in severe pain and then 19 more hours in the room). They didn't care. I told them I put in the margins that I didn't have money or insurance and couldn't pay. They informed me that since they were a different company, I still owed them. For 3 years they hounded me non stop. Finally I started hearing from them less and less. I never paid any of them. But I now can also not ever buy a house or car or anything else in my name. Fortunately Linda bought our house before we got married.

We GOT married so I could get on Linda's insurance. I was faced with a $75,000.00 procedure and when they found out I had no insurance, the hospital said they couldn't do the surgery. I was told I needed to go the emergency room at the "pauper" hospital in town where they take the gunshot gang banger injuries. No offense, but I am not going to have a life or death surgery at the discount trauma hospital (nor should anyone else for that matter). So I was faced with not having the surgery and risking death.. going to a questionable hospital for "free" service which would have still resulted in bankruptcy.. putting Linda into bankruptcy and having her sell the house and try to come up with the money or appealing to the JPF membership to get the money, something that likely wouldn't have worked, but even if it had, would likely have ruined everything as that's the type of thing you can only really do 1 time. So fortunately I was with someone I loved and though we were perfectly happy not being married, marriage was an option to solve all the problems. Once I had insurance, then I found out a I had myriad of OTHER problems that had been neglected as well as one huge long term problem which I had neglected because I couldn't afford the 20K in tests per year needed to monitor it. I am not on 14 medications I wasn't on before I had insurance, and all of them have improved my health significantly. If I had to pay for these medications without insurance.. it would cost me well over 3K a month. I am not a disabled person. I am a person who works harder than anyone else I personally know but who doesn't make a lot of money from the work.

I don't doubt all your stories. There are ways, especially with disability or age related medicare, to get things paid for. So that makes it all the more weird for us not to go ahead and have universal health care of some type. There's a percentage of people, no matter how many programs exist out there right now, who simply fall through the cracks. Those folks are just as deserving of health care as you and I.

But the interesting thing about the Michael Moore movie (which is now off Google, so you'd have to see it in the theater) is that he spends most of the time exposing the problems with the health care system for people WITH insurance. They have sometimes WORSE horror stories than those without insurance. Watch the movie and get back to me if you still feel the same.

I hated the Al Gore movie. I have liked 2 of Moore's previous movies and 2 I could do without. I am the last person people would consider liberal (unless they don't know me). This is a great movie.. it's an issue who's time has come. The movie isn't particularly political (one of the harshest slams is against Hilary). But facts are facts. Our system is broke, for the insured as well as the uninsured. Even Fox News, (which I watch every day) endorses the movie. If that can happen, anything can.

Brian

Brian
You are correct. Some folks fall through the cracks and, like in your circumstance, are really in a bad situation. I am sorry to hear about that.
I'm not sure how many people are in that group. It is probably more than we think.
I do know that most of the HMO's absolutely suck.
My wife and I are going to relocate to Tennessee. We realized that we may have a one year period where I won't have insurance. We are trying to figure out how to avoid that time lapse.
Fortunately if I have to I can go to the VA.

But from what I have heard of this film I think it will only make me angry if I watch it.
I personally believe we have the best medical profession in the world, the best doctors, the most cutting edge care, and certainly the best Hospitals. To say we are inferior in our care is, IMHO, just not true.
My wife is an ICU nurse and I see how she trains constantly to improve her skills. She is diligent and the people she works with are the same way.
People from all over the world come here for treatment. They don't go to Cuba.
Do mistakes happen? Of course. Are there some incompetent health care workers? Of course. Are some Hospitals worse than others? Absolutely.

I will tell you this. If I was shot on the streets of Chicago I would hope I was close to Cook County Hospital. It's the low budget charity hospital where all the poor people go. I interned there and they treat more gunshots than just about anywhere in the world besides the Military.
I spent time in their Burn unit and their birthing center. All the care was excellent.
But you know what. They would probably treat me like crap. They don't coddle or pamper you. The food sucks, and there are no frills.

Long waits in emergency rooms are caused by one thing. People who use the emergency room like their own personal doctor's office. Bringing the kids in for a cold or skinned knees.
And I still maintain our country cannot provide free medical care for 50 million immigrants who don't pay taxes. That is about 1 out of 6 people in this country. Someone has to pay for it. Did Michael Moore mention that in his film? I doubt it.

Insurance companies do set the rate it will pay for a given procedure. So does Medicare. And I have seen some of the figures and they are pitifully low. So, if you don't have insurance and have to pay it yourself you pay "the MSRP" which is always higher. And that's just wrong. You pay for those that do not pay. The insurance company doesn't.


It's funny you mention the trapped gas incident.(I don't mean funny HaHa).
When I was in my twenties I was at work running a Jack Hammer busting through concrete. I was leaning on it with my stomach for leverage. Well I started getting pain in my abdomen. It got so bad I had to go home. The pain persisted and got worse. By the time I got home I was crawling. I couldn't walk. My wife took me to hospital. Just as I was ushered into a room with a doctor I felt a gurgle and the pain just stopped. Nothing. It was as if it never was.
I did have insurance. They did not treat me for anything but I bet the bill was still a whopper.

I went to watch the movie clip and saw that it was removed. Bummer! I am interested in checking out this movie. Very good topic!

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com

I would like to add one more thing.
Why do so many Americans NOT have insurance? Did Mr Moore ask that question?

I remember when I was younger nearly everyone had health insurance. It was part of the benefit packge at the factory they worked at.
Uh? Factory? What's that?

Flashback.
In 1994 Our President Mr Bill Clinton signed into law a bill that would offer incentives to investors to relocate their factories to Mexico. This was supposed to bolster the mexican economy and allow them to buy more goods manufactured here and shipped to Mexico.
It didn't work folks. The factories went to Mexico but that was all that happened.
Our people lost the High wage jobs that also provided insurance benefits. So here we are.

Unfortunately our current President Mr Bush has signed a bill that will include more South American countries in the agreement. So things are only going to get worse.

Isn't that nice of him.

Hi Brian,

I saw a documentary on PBS yesterday where Michael Moore was interviewed. One of the things the interveiwer brought up was the fact that a story recenly came out of Britain where a patient was 'dumped' in the parking lot with no place to go. Moore then admitted that people fall through the cracks in every country. I would agree. But, we should not be number 37 or 38 on the list of quality of health care. So many things play into what's happened in this country. I'm angry at the AMA for letting corporations turn them into puppets to push products. And my brother-in-law is a pharmaceutical salesman. I think they are referred to as representatives but they are SALESMEN/WOMEN.

I've watched the circus develop through the years. And it's ridiculous. The government slaps their hands occasionally when the public begins to complain or seems the public is starting to wake up. Here's the trends I've noticed.

1. Several years ago, it became difficult to get into see your doctor within a reasonable timeframe due to the greatly increased traffic from pharmaceutical 'reps'. Most are young beautiful women now, where they used to be mostly men. Interesting fact since the profession is very lucrative. I know that because I see the lifestyle my brother-in-law's family lives by. New car every four years is a regular benefit. My BIL also got his job with only a four year undergraduate degree. In contrast, my husband had to go to school for an additional four MORE years to learn enough to prescribe glasses and contact lenses (although while he was in school the laws changed to allow them to prescribe prescription drugs for all types of eye problems---he was educated appropriately since the school anticipated this). However, for many many years optometrists have been required to go to school for four years beyond a college degree just to prescribe glasses and contacts.

2. Doctors have for many years now been quick to switch the drug they'd originally prescribed for you even if the original one was still working just fine. This troubled me many years ago. And I noticed that not only my internist did that but also my ENT did it as well. Finally, I started asking for the original drug---and it's always cheaper too since the trademark patent has run out. Stupid reason to switch drugs if you ask me----unless of course you are the pharmaceutical rep who knows your paycheck is based on whether or not you stir up enough business for your new 'improved' drug. Ha! It's not improved. Flonase always worked better for me than any of the later, pricier substitutes. This is highway robbery. And it's so sad to see doctors who you've grown to to 'trust' over 18 years allow themselves to be duped. I could tell a long story about my internist here who I trusted for 18 years. Finally, I woke up. He even admitted to me that I'd found my own cure. He announced that I was healthier than he'd ever seen me before. No thanks to him or his multitude of unwise 'counselors' I might add.

Some doctors are wising up. In fact, my newest physician (and also an MD) told me I was the boss and if he were me with my history he'd opt for taking St. John's Wort in the standard dose. That was after he asked me if I wanted to take a drug or more specifically, if I wanted to NOT take a drug. I laughed and said "You got that right!". He then stated that the AMA's stance on the 'fact' that St. John's Wort was not effective in treating mild forms of depression was, in fact, based on the biased studies performed by none other than Pfiezer (scared to lose profits from the competition). (A big drug company---I'm sure you've heard of them since your wife is a pharmacist).

3. My cousin is a nurse in Mississippi. She and her mother who have worked in the medical field for many years are regularly invited to parties given by pharmaceutical reps. I was surprised to hear this was still going on since I'd been reading in the press that rules and regulations had been passed to stop the rewards and payoffs of the medical caregivers (especially physicians). Well, it seems they keep finding loopholes. Last I heard they'd been to a Motel suite for an educational class???? I didn't ask what went on. But, I know there was booze. I guess they can't hold the parties at the doctor's office or hospital anymore so they've found a way around that too.

My cousin is the head nurse over the whole surgery department in a moderately sized hospital.

4. Pharmaceutical companies plan bonuses based on getting approval for new patents. They merge or downsize according to how many patents they have in effect. Jobs are on the line when they are close to losing a patent. Public health is far from the equation when they tally up how successful they are.

5. I read a book called What Your Doctor My Not Have Told You About Menopause. It shed more light on what's happening in healthcare today than any book I ever read before (though there are many now). This doctor gave up his practice once he realized what was going on. He dedicated his life to educating the public. But, a couple years ago he died. Unexpectedly. He was not sickly. He looked to be the picture of health and yet, he up and died out of the blue with a 'heart attack'. Ha! I'll never believe that even though I've never heard anyone else suggest there was a conspiracy. It was just too weird to me that he died while travelling where he was supposed to deliver another public address.


I fell through the cracks once. I was insured with BCBS right after taking my first job as an RN. The corporation of hospitals I joined had no problem insuring me when I worked in a small rural facility. But, when I transferred to a larger city (same employer) they put me through orientation which included lot's of paperwork. THat included a history. I answered the questions honestly. Even the one about back pain. The back pain had been attributed to my ovary in the past without X-raying my back. This time they X-rayed my back. This was the first time their facility had ever x-rayed my back. But it happened to be the very SAME facility where I'd originally gone for evaluation when complaining of my back hurting more than a year before.

But, when they were interested in saving money for themselves down the road---they suddenly decided a back X-ray was necessary. Immediately, they sent the director of nurses to pull me out of my class (where I was fidgeting and twisting from the prolonged sitting) to show me my x-ray. That's when the director informed me I would not be able to work there. I left there that day with no plan for my future. Fired. End of story as far as they were concerned.

After that I tried unsuccessfully to work for a home health agency (they'd assured me it would all be local travel----then my first patient lived 50 miles away!) They didn't seem to be worried about my back even though I told them my diagnosis and pain with prolonged sitting. That job lasted two weeks. THen I got the flu and finally gave up and went back to live with my grandparents---defeated. New graduate with six months experience at a tiny rural hospital with no insurance. Hadn't crossed my mind that if I needed back surgery I should find a doctor quickly before my 30 days of coverage expired.

So, I told God. This isn't fair. There's got to be someone out there who will help me. I live in the USA. It's not like that here is it??? That's when the idea of looking through the blue pages hit me. I hunted and hunted---looking for some kind of government organization that looked like it might help someone like me. There was---it was Vocational Rehabilitation. I called and the very kind gentleman made an appointment to interview me. I went. Filled out a modest amount of paperwork. Told the truth about what happened. He said, "we are going to help you." I had to get two doctors to say I needed surgery. (the surgery would allow me to lift weight again and be employable as a nurse). Voc Rehab doesn't pay that great so hospitals try to cut corners on your stay. They sent me home too soon and I got sicker because of it. But, they had to take me back with a 104 degree fever and keep me till it went away (took another week). I had an angel of a nurse that week. She woke me up every night and changed my drenching wet (perspiration) sheets every night. I had nightmares that I can still remember. But, that nightshift granny nurse took care of me---in spite of what was terrible about the system. I'm sure she smoked too---she had that look. But, I didn't care. She was alert enough to take care of me and I'll always be grateful for her and the countless other nurses who've soldiered on even though so many have turned hard hearted and given in to bribery.

Many years later, I found that I wasn't able to function very well in the nursing profession (chronic pain) so I contacted Vocational Rehabilitation and they paid for me to go to night school to become an Elementary School teacher.

Cobra laws are now in effect to prohibit what my employer did to me. I'm not sure what year they went into effect. But, I know that you can't be fired for a physical disabilitly now.

That's just some of my experience with this topic. But, I've already written a book here.

Vanessa

Bill,

The fact that NAFTA sucks has nothing to do with this topic. Why do people try to argue completely unrelated topics to suggest a different topic is invalid. Rant all you want about NAFTA (I voted for Ross Perot who was the only candidate that year against it) but it doesn't change the fact that this movie is fantastic and exposes a serious and mostly undiscussed problem in our country. He doesn't suggest the health care workers are the problem. He goes after the insurance companies who cause people to die out of greed and the HMO's and the greedy hospitals who dump helpless uninsured patients on skid row. (it's all on video tape).

Brian

Brian

Yes, there are many serious problems with our health care system. Your story, Subs story, are examples of the really bad situations that many people face every day.
There is no excuse for it. No one should be denied health insurance or health care. No one should be denied any treatment simply because they cannot pay for it. That is criminal.
No one is trying to diminish the impact of the situation. The tragedy that it brings. But it is not the whole story.

I was addressing the problems of health insurance. Caused by loss of factory jobs that provided insurance. I don't plan to rant about NAFTA, but it is undeniably a source of loss of much of the health insurance in this country. How can that be unrelated or denied?

Health care problems are a multi faceted condition. Not just one cause. Saying the cause is only greedy corporations that let people die for money is just a part of it.

Illegal immigration costs us Billions in unpaid medical care but mentioning it isn't a rant about it. But the bleeding heart liberals in this country dismiss it. And don't want it mentioned. Maybe if they took the couple hundred thousand dollars the next Illegal immigrant was going to use up and gave it to an American citizen in need of medical care they would not be in this situation.
Are you going to say that's an unrelated rant about immigration?

Many people choose to be self employed. They have to buy their own insurance. If they don't, well, who's fault is that?
You going to blame it on the insurance companies? The Government?
I ran my own Business for many years. During that time I had no health insurance. I could have. I just had to pay for it. And Yes, it was expensive and I could not afford it. I did maintain my own accidental injury policy. If I got hurt at work it was covered. I did that on my own. My work could be dangerous and I felt I needed the coverage and I paid for it out of my own pocket.
Most young adults could afford health insurance for what they spend each month on cigarettes. My nephew is a typical example. He smokes two packs a day. That's about $275 a month. He is in his late twenties and has no health insurance. But you know what. He pays about $300 a month for insurance to drive his High Performance Mustang.
How much would health insurance cost him? $200, $300?

I just checked to see how much health insurance would cost me if I had to get my own insurance for a year.
Guess what. It comes out to be a little more than I am paying for all my other insurance for a year. House, cars, life insurance, etc.
Why do people balk at buying their own health insurance but readily pay to insure their homes, cars, Boats, Motorcycles, or any other toys they have and are afraid they will lose.
Why will we buy a house that costs $150,000 and Mortgage it over thirty years. By the time it's paid for it costs us $350,000. But we then complain about paying for a life saving health related procedure. Our house is more important than our life? I know, that's a stretch, but think on it.

And since I worked in the health care industry for many years and So has my wife I simply do not believe the crap that Michael Moore spouts.
He twists the facts and does not talk about anything that does not fit his agenda.

Dumping helpless patients on skid row? I worked nearly every area in Chicago. The slums, the rich north shore. and everything in between and I NEVER, I repeat NEVER, saw anything that even came close to that. If anything I saw just the opposite. Drug addicts, dirtballs, criminals, Rich folks, etc. Time and again take advantage of the health care providers that were trying to help them. We would pick up the same dirtballs week after week and take them to the hospital. They were like a plague. But, we still picked them up and took them and the hospital still treated them. We might not have been very pleasant to them but we never refused to help them.
I saw bums fake an illness just so they could get a meal. I felt sorry for them. But how many times does an emergency room have to see this person before they say enough is enough.
If we even thought about mistreating a patient we would be up on charges. We had a very strong peer review as well and people who mistreated patients were quickly found out.

Sorry I just don't buy it.

I do not know why some people get all the help they need and others do not.

One of my pet peeves when I worked in Chicago was we would get a call to a North Shore High rise. It would be someone who lived in a $500,000 Condo. The son or daughter of the patient would be waiting for us in their $200,000 Mercedes. We transport a person that is not an American citizen, here on a visa, can't speak English and they would hand us their Medicare card and we would take them to the Hospital that was the most modern and well equipped. And the most expensive.

The very next call would be to some poor guy who, born here, worked hard all his life and needed help. His mom might be sick. They have no insurance, and no medicare card, and barely can make it on what they earn. They'd ask us to take them to the (as you put it) Low budget pauper Hospital.
How does that work? I never could understand that.

I admit I am looking at it from a different angle. Maybe even playing devil's advocate. I don't want anyone to think I am not totally sympathetic with anyone caught in a bad health care situation.

My wife and I are both teachers by day. We love the work, but the pay is very low. The one sole benefit that we enjoy is exceptional health care. Since we are both teachers in the same district, we pay zero, zilch, nada for our family health care insurance. It cost us a $5 co-pay for each of children being born.

You can't beat that, but I also see my father struggling with Parkinson's disease and the high medical bills that he has to pay for treatment. There has to be a better way. What that is I do not know.

Brian

I remember when I wrote michael moore abut his upcoming project "Sicko". I also give him some idea on my own point of view in our health scenario here. I havent watch it but here the only time you will see tis movie is when it reached the pirated version of his movie to be sold everywhere in our country. Give me two weeks for this.

His style of propaganda really an eye opener. Maybe now you can answer my reason why I was on the edge of quitting my proffesion.

Treating people is now becoming an enterprising business now. The Pharmaceutical company, the health insurance and the hospital owners are the ones raking a lot of money. I know this is not the place to rant but when I swear the hippocratic oath it turns to hippocracy oath. The patient suffers a lot. I know your wife can relate to this especially almost every month the different arm of medical associations/societies are releasing a lot of consesus, guideline etc claiming it will decrease the incidence of certain diseases. But this doctor suggesting this are giving nice deal for promoting this new drug in the market.

Anyway thanks for bringing this up. Looking forward to watch the pirated version.

Lynman

Bill... why do people NOT have health insurance? As a musician, I'm kind of suprised you'd ask that question.

The lease expensive personal health insurance here in MA runs about $400/mo for an individual... more for a couple. I have never been able to afford insurance since my husband and I are both self employed and like it that way.

MA is now requiring all residents to purchase health insurance... so we're out that much money a month for a policy that is essentially worthless... a $7000 deductable. How much care will I receive a year if I have to pay for the first 7000 myself? Plus the premiums I'm required by law to pay to a for profit corporation will sap our budget to the extreme.

My hubby had an accident last year where he was knocked out and broke some ribs. That emergency room visit ran just under the deductable amount... so something like that wouldn't even be covered.

I'm actually furious about this. I'm all for people getting the medical care they should and paying a fair amount for those valuable services... but as long as care is dictated by a company that is required by law to turn a profit by denying as many customer claims as possible, we're doomed.

I think hospitals and insurance companies should be run as not-for-profit entities.

I am not eligible for most assistance since I was socially responsible enough NOT to have kids when I couldn't afford it.. if I had kids, I would have been eligible for all kinds of programs.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Christine

Wow, I was just reading about the MA health insurance changes and thinking what I great idea it was. At least a try at something to help. Some of the states are trying to deal with this themselves since the federal government never will (well, actually, they may try now since business is really whining about it). I'm really glad you gave your point of view Christine.

If you have to buy this policy, is the insurance company in MA required to take you on no matter what pre-existing conditions? Are the premiums the same for everybody regardless of pre-existing conditions? It would hardly be fair to require people to buy insurance if pre-existing conditions make the premiums through the roof...The policy you are talking about sounds like a disaster policy, do they have any with cheaper premiums and higher deductible?

I agree $400-800 a month for insurance is crazy. Your yearly outlay (should you need medical care) before you even get one cent of insurance money at say $600 a month premium and $7000 deductible would be $14,200. But, I can tell you straight up from experience, if you have something happen that requires even a simple day surgery, you are probably going to be over that. I broke my ankle recently and had to have a day surgery to put plate on the bone and repair a ligament, and the total of the bills on the face of it (who knows what really gets paid because of network contracts and all that) was about $15,000. Now, if you don't have insurance (and I'm sure you know this), even though hospitals say this doesn't happen, my opinion is that in many cases your total bill for the same surgery is higher than someone who does insurance. If the bill on the face of it is $20,000, if you have insurance, because of contracts and all that, your bill after the contract discounts may actually be $12,000. But someone who does not have insurance may have to pay the total face bill of $20,000, or the hospital will discount it some (like maybe 25% or down to $15,000), but you still end up paying more for the same surgery. So, being without insurance gets you twice, you don't have money to pay for things to begin with, and in my opinion often times your bill is unfairly higher.

I agree health insurance is crazy and something needs to be done. Just have to be careful, as the Canadian and UK plans have serious flaws in them as well. I also agree the main problem is with having a for profit middle man deciding who gets care, and them spending millions to lobby Congress not to change anything so as to protect their turf.

I'll give you one solution on the political end if anybody will listen. The power of who holds office is with us the voters. Until Congress tackles some of our tough issues, simply vote out the incumbents. Each and every election year. No matter how hard it is for you to vote against someone you like. Do not vote party line, do not vote ideology, do not vote on how much you like the person, do not vote on if this person got perks for your district. Instead, look at Congress as a whole and ask, "Have they solved any tough problems?". Like health care. If not, then why do you want the same guy/gals in there? This new Congress has already failed, as they had a tough issue to solve (immigration reform), and they failed to do anything because of politics. Vote 'em out.

I know how hard that is. I have the pleasure of having two of the best people in Congress in my districts, Senator Lugar, and Congressman Mike Pence. Lugar of course is very distinguished, and he has a long track record of actually getting useful things done. I love the fact he has taken on Bush and called him on the complete incompetence that is the Iraq War. Lugar has been shunned by the White House, even though he is a moderate, thoughtful, and successful Republican. Pence has thoroughly and thoughtfully answered my questions. He didn't give me some crappy canned answer, but specifics. I respect him greatly for that, and I like some of the things he is trying to do.

But you know what, nether of these guys is getting my vote, because Congress as a whole is not doing the things that need to be done. They are failing...vote 'em out...

Christine, I also have an individual plan with a $5000 deductible, but I also have another non deductible plan that covers up to $4000 a year. If I need to use both plans at the same time than my deductible goes down to $1000 out of pocket. The larger plan insures me for $1,000,000 per year and doctor visits are $20 co-pay. I can also get a physical or a colonoscopy with a $20 co-pay. The deductible kicks in if I have a major condition. I am paying $180 per month for the $1,000,000 plan and $65 per month for the $4000 plan plus $11 per month for dental and vision.$256 per month total. I have been on this plan for over a year and have yet to use it. Ben

Ben,

Do you have a pre-existing condition?

Brian

Luckely nothing major. I have been treated for gout before so the larger insurance co. will not cover an attack. A regular doctor visit and some medication usually takes care of that. I haven't had an attack in ten years. Both of my parents were diabetics and I've been lucky so far.

My wife had both her knees replaced at no cost.Now, she had to wait a while to get it done,but when her turn came around,it was done.In the US,if you had the money or enough insurance,you could proably have it done within 24 hours,but at what cost.In Canada,life threating cases move to the top of the line,while less serious cases may get bumped back to make room for the serious case,but no one is refused.Canadian people with lots of money and don't want to wait their turn,will often go elsewhere and pay,good for them,that opens up a place for some poor person to moveup the line.

The only insurance I have to pay for is car and house insurance, life insurance if I want it,and drug coverage and/or dental,if I want it.

Everett,

You should jump over onto the General message board and tell us what it's really like in Canada. We need that perspective.

Brian

I found a good source of information. It is a library of congress web site containing current legislation in the current congress. It has 719 bills on the subject of health care. It lists the bills and the sponsers. A lot of reading.If curious go to the site and type in "Health Care" in "search bill text".

http://thomas.loc.gov/

Thanks Ben. This stuff is tons of reading as a rule.

Vanessa

Well, my preexisting conditions would be hard to prove since I haven't had any health care, I have no medical records since I haven't seen a doctor in 15 years or so...lol... but not really funny.

Thanks for letting me know about the cheaper plans.

The rates here in MA are regulated by the gov..... we're one of the few states, if not the only one... not sure... that doesn't have competitive auto insurance rates (some of the highest in the nation) .... I think it's the same for the health.

I understand the necessity of having a safety net in case of disaster, but the monthly outlay for this expense will totally strain our small budget. It just seems slightly unconsitutional to me to require a citizen to put profits in the pocket of a private corporation... know what I mean?

I really feel like our country, if we can't stomach the socialized medical system style in place in much of the developed world, we should at least explore the idea of converting health care to a not-for-profit business model.