JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Keep a copy of your original work tape; re AI

Songwriting With Jason Blume
Steve Temmel · S͏n͏p͏o͏t͏d͏o͏s͏e͏r͏f͏h͏6͏c͏8͏0͏8͏g͏m͏h͏4͏5͏6͏1͏u͏h͏4͏0͏5͏l͏c͏1͏4͏t͏1͏2͏c͏1͏u͏4͏u͏1͏t͏h͏9͏8͏h͏l͏l͏a͏l͏u͏g͏f͏0͏i͏t͏i͏2͏u͏ ·
Jason Blume - This comment was in every pitch brief I received for this month. Looks like the wheat is about to get separated from the AI chaff as it should.

We're hearing more reports of record labels, artists, and management asking pluggers and publishers to provide a time-stamped original work tape version from the songwriter as proof of human authorship. If you use AI enhancements in your production, we now highly recommend that you keep a copy of your original "work tape" demonstrating your original melody and lyrics, with a digital timestamp that predates the AI-produced version.

But what if a somebody uses Ai, to create the song, then takes said song and records it as a work tape?

I think it is a good idea to document what you did, how you write it, but not sure its proof of anything.

Kind of sad reslly

THE ELEVEN O’CLOCK NEWS — EVERYTHING IS FINE
Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news from the music industry.
A Suno singer was killed earlier today.
Detectives described the scene as grisly. The floor was covered in oil, several USB cables were missing, and somebody had unplugged the Wi-Fi.
Police immediately arrested a robot named Y’all Die.
Authorities suspect a Nashville session player may have been involved.
One detective said, “We found a steel guitar pick at the scene. We’re following every lead.”
More details at eleven.
Back to you, Wendy.
And Wendy, you have lovely breasts.
“Thank you, Bob. Human Resources would like to see you immediately after the broadcast.”
In Wisconsin today, an 800-acre AI data center mysteriously burned to the ground.
Authorities became suspicious when approximately every demo studio in Nashville showed up carrying marshmallows.
One witness claims he saw a steel player running from the scene wearing a black hoodie.
Police asked him to surrender.
He responded with a beautiful minor-seven chord and disappeared into the night.
Local farmers celebrated.
One farmer told reporters, “Fucke you. We wanted our 800 acres back.”
In other news, several Klan members admitted today that their family trees may contain considerably fewer branches than previously reported.
Their defense was simple:
“Kings did it.”
Spain, France, and England were contacted for comment.
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One defendant disagreed.
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This newscast has now been banned throughout most of the South.
Meanwhile in California, authorities discovered something previously believed impossible:
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She responded, “Which time?”
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After more than a century of complicated tax regulations, audits, penalties, forms, deductions, extensions, payment plans, and 87 different ways to ask the same damn question, the agency summarized the entire American tax code in six words:
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Billionaires were asked for comment.
They said, “What’s an IRS?”
IRS Agent 666 offered taxpayers some encouraging advice:
“Joke, smoke, and donate.”
Thank you, Agent 666.
And now, something to ponder.
Why is Sunday called Sunday?
It sure as hell isn’t sunny every Sunday.
Maybe centuries ago Sunday was actually a day of rest.
Not anymore.
In the modern economy, Sunday is the day you work your third job so you can afford a chicken.
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A chicken.
You still have to finance the potatoes.
And tonight’s final philosophical question:
What does fruitcake have in common with crazy?
Absolutely nothing.
Which raises another question:
Why the hell do we call crazy people fruitcakes?
Nobody ever looked at an insane person and said:
“You know what his problem is?
Too many candied cherries.”
That concludes tonight’s news.
Tomorrow: scientists investigate why hot dogs come in packs of ten, buns come in packs of eight, and somehow the IRS still wants its share.
Good night, America.
We’re all doomed.
But at least the steel player got away.

That makes sense to me.
Bill

By recording AI as a work tape, the artist is assuming responsibility for their "judgement" of its originality and artistic value. If its a piece of crap, it'll die on the disc. If it sounds like artist2's work....artist2 will sue for copyright....and artist2 will have someone to approach in their law prooceedings.
Bill

Gonna drop in on this.

It is all about pre-dating.

For maximum protection:

Record a completely 'offline" tape of you singing and playing your lyrics and song. One that no human or machine has ever heard.

Register that work as a sound recording with the Library of Congress before it has ever been exposed to anyone other than yourself.

Get DATED proof of that registration.

And then...upload that tape to SUNO for whatever your purposes are.

THEORETICALLY,
You will have proof that the lyrics and melody are yours.
The SUNO production will be yours to do with as you please, assuming a paid subscription.
SUNO will have certain usage right regarding the production that was executed with their resources.

AVISO:
Nothing is bullet-proof.
A copyright registration is probably a waste of money for most of us.

One possible air tight scenario: (I am imagining here)

A songwriter writes a song in privacy.
He gives it to a publisher in privacy.
The publisher gives it to a producer in privacy
The producer has an artist record it in a private recording session.
It leaves there for distribution.

That's not quite correct. Think for a minute about the Ai songs you have done.

Now you know that melody, and chord progression.

Delete that from existence. Now take the melody and chird progression, and play it on your acoustic guitar, and say, this is my work tape and record it.

Send that into library of congress, then what happens? Do you own it or does suno?

Its same as hearing somebodys song at a bar, going home and using it as your own song.

BTW, I suspect many songs are written by somebody remembering a song they heard before and are unknowingly copying some of it

Basically im saying the time you write a song is not necessarily the same as the time you record it. The song could have been written 20 years before the work tape, by somebody else even

And can you ever really prove you wrote something to somebody who might say. Ahh ai did that all

Dom,

you are not talking about the same thing that I am.

I am responding to the first post.

I am suggesting that someone make a recording that includes, at the least, the lyrics, chord structure and vocal melody. And then register it with the Library of Congress before they even engage SUNO. The date of that copyright registration will time stamp and make clear what was there, and created by that particular human.

Per my understanding, to sue for infringement and win is one hurdle but atty fees and court costs are much easier to get with the proof of the date of copyright.

That copyright registration date needs to "pre-date" all other claims.

Before all that comes into play, you have to write a song that someone stole and made real money with.

Yeah I realized I was making different point, but it is related, because you really cant prove you wrote anything. Whether you have a time stamp on it or not, cause even if you have documents you need of your take, doesn't prove you didn't steal it from someone else

Also, copyrights are bullshit. They dont listen to your sound recording, you could have total silence on it, and meanwhile giving you credit for a song with a title.

Because time stamps are not real proof, copyrights aren't either, you just registered before somebody else.

Which is why you could have copyright before Kenny Chesney does, he'll still win.

Somebody once told me, the only real protection you can have is to have a hit, then its widely accepted somebody heard that song and stole it.

Access to hearing the said song is the key in court. But
Documenting how you wrote a song can help you should you find yourself in court over a song.

If you can prove to the jury how you wrote it you can win

I doubt any of you guys are going to pitch to Jason Blume . Ai or not. I guess it's a bunch of rhetoric instead of going in the studio yourself. So you waste your life away on bullshit and Rick Beato who hates any music after 1968. your like fans in the bleachers yelling at the quarter back to pass the ball. You stink bullshit like that. Just lie it's not Suno , He's lying to you you'll be on radio. You have better odds winning the lottery. Is that a Suno song ? Naw. I'm like Moses without GPS . I never lie Pinocchio. I was not in Motel 6 last night , It sure looked alot like you. Well I'm doing a research for a sin and salvation song. It's called roll in the hay but I was saved by Jesus. Released thru Adultery records. Produced by Andy Atheist. Was she over 18 ? well now were back to Pinocchio.She did not know who the Beatles were , so that answers your question . I see we think you're a menace to society .

Ben, Frank,

There is something that you may want to consider.

Your songwriting took a quantum leap up when you started leaning heavily on AI to write lyrics.
The all-of-a-sudden jump in quality was remarkable.

It seems that you are involving AI early in your songwriting process,
And then involving AI heavily in the production of the songs where the music is developed.

With the intent of recording them once developed.

That level of AI involvement likely makes your songs un-own-able by you or anyone.
And anyone who wants to use your songs and claim them as theirs is free to do so.

It is reasonable to assume that your songs are legally not your property and not "pitch-able" for that reason.

We are all just doing this for fun.

I do it cause its a habit, the whole thing, conceiving it, writing it, recording it, and thinking there actually is an audience or market somewhere, some movie soundtrack I might do, is all a habit.

The main thing Ben doesn't consider though is that every song he's posted is decent sounding at best.

Nothing that could be played on radio, maybe used in TV spot, but not competitive sounding.

That's not an insult, its what you'd expect to get from a 600 dollar demo, entirely decent.

For a guy who sold his guitar to pay the irs, I don't think that 600 is worth it.

For the hundredth time, it’s not a demo. It’s a master recording for an artist named Elvis Nash. I’m not making a sellout Suno song for a penny.
I’ll buy another fucking guitar. Money comes and goes. Time doesn’t. When you’re dead, you’re dead. Nobody at the funeral says, “Damn shame about Elvis, but at least he saved $800 on studio time.”
The government? They’re the Mafia with better stationery. You have to pay them or they break your legs financially. No biggie. Make more money. Record more songs. Maybe I’ll become famous in China. There are a billion people over there. Statistically, somebody has to like me.
The government says, “We want your money.”
What do I get?
“Roads.”
There’s a pothole outside my house big enough to qualify for waterfront property.
Then we’re building giant AI data centers so computers can write fucking Suno songs. Farmers are standing there going, “You took 800 acres for WHAT?”
“A robot needed to rhyme ‘fire’ with ‘desire.’”
Stupid humans. We finally invented artificial intelligence because the natural kind wasn’t working out.
And a demo is what you send to publishers while everybody tells you, “This could be on the radio.”
Sure. And my retirement plan is a lottery ticket.
Maybe if you’re a staff writer for Sony you’ve got a shot.
“How many writers were on that hit?”
“Ten.”
Why ten?
“Well, three were stupid, two ordered lunch, four argued over the chorus, and we hired a Mexican guy to write the bridge.”
“Why him?”
“He was the only guy in the room who knew where the song was going.”
Sometimes I think I’ll buy some coke for old times’ sake and visit my past. Then I remembered I’m old. Where the hell do you even find a drug dealer in this economy? Mine probably has a 401(k), three rental properties, and only takes appointments.
Anyway, that’s all I’ve got. I have to drive six hours to make money. I also help support a family in the Philippines because apparently my financial adviser is Malibu Jesus.
“You should diversify your investments, Elvis.”
“I did. Half goes to music and half goes to the Philippines.”
“And your retirement?”
“Powerball.”
I wanted a younger wife. Nobody explained there was an international maintenance agreement.
But I’ll give Asia this: family still means something. In America you turn 70 and society starts looking at you like an old refrigerator.
“Still running?”
“Yeah.”
“[naughty word removed]. We thought this thing would be gone by now.”
Not me. I’m buying guitars, recording songs, driving six hours to make money, and refusing to behave appropriately for my age.
And while we’re correcting history, Jesus probably didn’t look like some blond guy from Wisconsin selling insurance.
He was a Middle Eastern man walking around in robes, preaching peace and pissing off the government.
Come to think of it, Jesus probably looked a hell of a lot closer to Marvin Gaye than Brad Pitt.
That ought to piss everybody off equally.
My work here is done.



Ai is good for making jokes work like songs. He's cheating , so are you selling out to Suno

Thanks for the morning pick-me-up, Ben! Did you ever consider being a stand-up comedian? Probably good money in that.

John

Well, I entered this thread desiring to offer some helpful insight.
But, I over-engaged and inadvertently triggered some crazy stuff.

I'll need to push my upcoming assessment/evaluation back in time for a bit, to let the air clear and reset.
But, fear not...I will return with it.

SP

It IS a demo Ben, it's not a professional recording, you get what you pay for.

You may not see it as a demo, cause its your product, but in reality its a demo, entirely decent

That is pro recording by pros sung by a pro .Unlike you pretending to be somebody using Sellout Suno songs. Cuz you're worried about walking in recording studio . and getting bullshit from people and fans and you will . Some of these fans are crazy . You're worried about 600 , you'll be dead in 10 years . Play Suno songs at your funeral . Play it for the farmer on your AI Data Centers . right after he shoots you . Shite killed by a farmer . But I was in the FFA . Romancing sheep at country fairs . Now you've gone to far Elvis . Robot jokes

https://www.youtube.com/@elvisnash/videos



https://www.instagram.com/reels/DcOxLMoKPJd/

Im the artist , I do what I want . I wont be pitching songs to publishers cuz it's bullshit . A Curb Rep set free . You will never get a major cut with a major artist cuz you're an unknown .

Thats when I started to record again , I should of did that 20 years ago and not waste my time with publishers

I can write a melody in 15 minutes did hundreds of them . I'm playing with AI melodies for now . No big deal. Is it for fun ? Kinda its alot of work cranking out song after song and recording them , its a sense of accomplishment really . Music gives you a quick mind , Helps in business also . But ya got be careful and not say the Hummingbird sings in the morning lol

I kinda do both use AI for some stuff , edits mostly , Write with cowriters . With out the strong hook . You're dead in the water like 3 chords and the lies. If it was up to me Suno and AI should have never been invented . But it's late now . So take advantage of it . and crack robot jokes lol. You guys act like Suno is your uncle , Its a machine . I laugh my self all the time , you sound like you swallowed Dylan and Waits . Why you still doing this ? Maybe try to pick up younger women again as a hobby . I have more doctor appointments than songs . it's fatal right ? Yes .Well I don't wanna die to healthy . Who's going to sue me Robbie The robot on using some AI lol

I posted this regarding the Sound Recording, the Master Recording, and Copyright Ownership necessary to 'Pitch' said product to persons with the Budget to pay for Synchronization Licensing, Sound Recordings they License to 'use', usually with video 'Content', TV commercial advertising, dramas, comedies, or movie or documentary Soundtracks, who put out a 'Brief' specifying what they are seeking.

Jason Blume was reporting what his experience is with those 'seekers', among them "record labels, artists, and management asking pluggers and publishers to provide a time-stamped original work tape version from the songwriter as proof of human authorship.

If you use AI enhancements in your production, we now highly recommend that you keep a copy of your original "work tape" demonstrating your original melody and lyrics, with a digital timestamp that predates the AI-produced version."

That 'advice' is likely the advice of well-paid legal advisors who know what they will be up against should any dispute arise of the 'right' to 'copy' and 'use' that recorded music. The time-stamped 'document' is for legal purposes.

If you're not responding to 'Briefs', submitting Master Recordings you own, under Copyright you own, it's not a matter to concern yourself with. If you think you may someday take your product to Market, then it becomes an issue because you are 'Contracting' with those Music Supervisors, Arrangement & Repertoire personnel of those record labels, artists, management, and legal issues are involved.
If you can't Contract on that level of commercial acumen you're not likely to get a reputation for reliability. One bad experience can mark you in an industry where they talk to each other. A bad experience can get talked about more than a good one, for years. You may not hear about it, but it goes on.
Again, if you're not in the Market, Pitching to Briefs, your hobby status probably doesn't have to consider these legal issues.

Its not a bad idea, and might help in combination with other things.

But work tspes can ba made after suno writes the song.

Suno itself will know the facts based on their data

No you'll be considered a Natzi for using Suno and banned from Nashville forever You'll have to live in Africa .Maybe chickens are cheaper there.
Yup everybody knows each other in Nashville . You'll be marked the Devil and burned on the stake . Like Witches way back when over religion. you don't believe in fairy tales . bic lighter please. Well Pope Arnold . you banged altar boys . Then you're going to write this for giving religion a bad time . Burn in hell at 3am . You're still Natzi . But it's just a hobby so don't worry about it. thanks Jason , Rick Beato says fucke you . He hopes your Suno buildings burn to the ground , Kind regards Rick . We hope your AI Data centers blow up from to many Suno songs and farmers can grow corn again . You're all communists and hypocrites. Thats the fucking building SUNO and AI data centers are going to burn in