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yeah, there is a contest for Greatest Country in the World. It's called "immigration". People vote with their feet and their lives.
Bill
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JavaMusiK:
While I respect their propensity to exercise their rights of freedom of speech as a free American, I do take issue with their actions on the stage of a foreign land.
Everytime I hear or read this, I just shake my head in disbelief. It was ENGLAND, not some horrible enemy, and it was an OFFHAND comment! It wasn't some long, drawn out speech up on her soapbox.
And let me say this. LIKELY, I WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. Only to make a point will I say this -- the reign of George W. Bush and his bogus invasion of Iraq has been THE single worst thing, the most depressing time, for me in my entire life... other than my father's death. That's quite a tall statement.
I don't think people who support Bush understand how deeply his election and re-election has hit some of us. It's heavy, heavy, heavy.
I can easily put myself in the Dixie Chicks' shoes. Apparently, we share these horrible feelings towards this idiot of a president. My father was a POW. Leading young men and women into war based on deception is the ultimate treason.
So much of what I read in this thread and everywhere people comment about this... it is nothing more than extreme patriotism and nationalism. Which is horse hockey, IMO. The United States does not own this planet.
So, I could easily say myself making an offhand comment such as that. Like them, I carried that disbelief everywhere I went. "How can this be happening?" That's the ongoing thought you have in your head. You go about your day embarrassed for the United States. Embarrassed he is the president.
To ostracize the Dixie Chicks as "bad people," that just flat out sucks. I figure I'm an okay guy, I figure they're okay gals. But I certainly despise Bush. I held my tongue for years while this was happening. Friends of mine sure didn't. Every chance they got, it was Bush, the great leader, this and that. I'd want to puke.
The closest parallel I can think of for a comparable incident happened with another musician nearly 50 years ago.
Why not just say who you are talking about?
Okay, I'll go run a few miles, I'll be okay.
</font> [This message has been edited by DukeWill (edited 07-21-2006).]
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by lijemtu:
yeah, there is a contest for Greatest Country in the World. It's called "immigration". People vote with their feet and their lives.
Bill</font> Europe it is, then.
"Riding the SNAFU wav(e)"
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One should remember that it was the fans of the Chicks that did not accept the Chicks statement and caused the rejection of the Chicks after that statement was reported. I think Mr. Warren is refering to the fact that some 42 dates of the Chicks around the U.S. this year have been eliminated because of slow/no sales. Other Country Acts have sold out and drawn excellent crowds so it it seems the fans aren't welcoming the Chicks back just yet. It has nothing to do with "Right Wing" radio, George Bush or anything else. It is the fans that have passed on the Chicks. I wish the Chicks the best and in a decade or two down the road they will look back and reflect and judge their actions. We all make mistakes. This one is a small one at best. Write a hit!
Ray E. Strode
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DukeWill:
Originally posted by JavaMusiK:
While I respect their propensity to exercise their rights of freedom of speech as a free American, I do take issue with their actions on the stage of a foreign land.
Everytime I hear or read this, I just shake my head in disbelief. It was ENGLAND, not some horrible enemy, and it was an OFFHAND comment! It wasn't some long, drawn out speech up on her soapbox.
And let me say this. LIKELY, I WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. Only to make a point will I say this -- the reign of George W. Bush and his bogus invasion of Iraq has been THE single worst thing, the most depressing time, for me in my entire life... other than my father's death. That's quite a tall statement.
I don't think people who support Bush understand how deeply his election and re-election has hit some of us. It's heavy, heavy, heavy.
I can easily put myself in the Dixie Chicks' shoes. Apparently, we share these horrible feelings towards this idiot of a president. My father was a POW. Leading young men and women into war based on deception is the ultimate treason.
So much of what I read in this thread and everywhere people comment about this... it is nothing more than extreme patriotism and nationalism. Which is horse hockey, IMO. The United States does not own this planet.
So, I could easily say myself making an offhand comment such as that. Like them, I carried that disbelief everywhere I went. "How can this be happening?" That's the ongoing thought you have in your head. You go about your day embarrassed for the United States. Embarrassed he is the president.
To ostracize the Dixie Chicks as "bad people," that just flat out sucks. I figure I'm an okay guy, I figure they're okay gals. But I certainly despise Bush. I held my tongue for years while this was happening. Friends of mine sure didn't. Every chance they got, it was Bush, the great leader, this and that. I'd want to puke.
Another original post by JavaMusiK:
The closest parallel I can think of for a comparable incident happened with another musician nearly 50 years ago.
Why not just say who you are talking about?
Okay, I'll go run a few miles, I'll be okay.
</font> Dude...chill. I don't think I'm the only one who shared an opinion here that you disagree with and really don't appreciate being singled out. This is a discussion and your tone is rather over the top. I can appreciate your strong disposition having had a loved one as a POW. I truly hope he was able to regain some sort of a foothold on happiness before the end. The Dixie Chicks took a cheap shot at our president on foreign soil and are now profiting from it. I find that to be offensive. I don't care who our president is. While that is my opinion, I don't see that as a reason to go off on a fellow board member who disagrees with me here. I used to think fellow members at JPF were generally above that type of behavior. We can disagree on points without the condescending b.s. If you don't see that as possible, then I am truly sorry you find that to be the case and feel the need to go that route. btw - I don't think I ostracized the Dixie Chicks as "bad people" anywhere in my post. Or were you finished with singling me out at that point of your post? Best - Jeff ------------------ JavaMusiK
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I totally agree with Jeff, Duke...sorry but
what makes an entertainer throw his/her opinion about politics into public domain? If you want to do that, then do like Steve Largent or Ronald Reagan (or whomever) and stop doing what you're doing and go into politics. It is NOT entertaining to me to go out to see music and have them inject their political views into my evening of relaxation (maybe just a slight touch on it is OK, but no rant like this). And don't do it in someone else's house, especially. If you have to be an activist do it at the proper time and place...Just my opinion, and we all know opinions are like a**holes--everybody's got one---breathe, Duke, breathe
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BitWhys:
quote:
Originally posted by lijemtu:
yeah, there is a contest for Greatest Country in the World. It's called "immigration". People vote with their feet and their lives.
Bill
Europe it is, then.
</font> Last I checked, Europe was a continent.------------------ JavaMusiK
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Last I checked I wasn't that petty.
"Riding the SNAFU wav(e)"
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Even BAD Publicity can be GOOD Publicity. Especially if you're already a huge Star This whole thread is a fine example. Sue Lainey
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JavaMusiK:
I don't think I'm the only one who shared an opinion here that you disagree with and really don't appreciate being singled out.
Jeff, you're taking it personally. I didn't attack you. I responded to your post, which is going to happen if you post in a thread. I just responded to words on a page.
For years, I held back as Bush lovers tooted their horn in a very loud and boisterous manner about this so-called leader. In the past few years, I, literally, walked away from three so-called "patriotic," very vocal conversations that I can think of. Left the people talking to the wind. Just walked away rather than confront.
I guess I'm just kinda coming out and shouting from the rooftops that I've kinda had it. And now, the hornet's nest is really stirred up over there in the Middle East.
As far as my tone, I'm sorry. But I stand by what I said. I'll take a lesson in how I write it.
I don't know why I even post in threads like this. Really. I don't know what it accomplishes. I wrote quite a detailed post because I wanted to try to paint a picture for WHY someone like Natalie Maines could make an offhand comment such as she did. I don't think you comprehend this. That one can carry this sickening, sinister feeling with you everywhere you go... IF you thought the whole thing was boguz. As she did and I did.
Let me put it this way...
If you believe a president and his cronies fabricated evidence to lead his nation into war, is that about as low as it can get? Is to me. He should not only be impeached, he (and others in his cabinet) should be in prison. Please, somebody sick Monica on Dubya so we can impeach him.
The Dixie Chicks took a cheap shot at our president on foreign soil and are now profiting from it.
Oh wow. Never mind, I'll let it go.
I don't think I ostracized the Dixie Chicks as "bad people" anywhere in my post.
I didn't say you did. Some people label them with that but I didn't say you do.
I'll leave you with this. I have many more by eloquent statesmen, as opposed to the bumbling yoyo at the top now.
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole.
Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile.
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
"Teddy Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918
And btw, many of my friends and family support Bush.
And... I am not a democrat. My party is homo sapiens.
</font>
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Duke,
Supposedly the President is down in the Polls. However it appears the Chicks are even further down in the "Polls". Once again, it is the Fans that are "Voting" the Chicks "Out of Office" so to speak.
Bush won the election. Get over it. I hear Lousiana is sinking. Move to higher ground. Move way up north. To Shreveport.
Ray E. Strode
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ray E. Strode:
However it appears the Chicks are even further down in the "Polls". Once again, it is the Fans that are "Voting" the Chicks "Out of Office" so to speak.</font> Really? Let's see: - #1 debut U.S. pop albums chart AND the U.S. country albums chart - 526,000 copies sold in the first week - gold record within its first week That's still a success, hands down. It is obvious to me that this whole "backlash" thing was so completely, utterly contrived by a handful of radio DJs who wanted to pump up ratings by riling up their nutjob listeners. ------------------ Scott Andrew Lo-fi acoustic pop superhero! http://www.scottandrew.com/music
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Well Scotandrew,
You missed a couple of points. Steve Wareren's pointed Article and some 42 dates posponed,(Cancelled), around the U.S. booked for the Chicks. Remember that is not what I am saying, that is the fans "Speaking". Once again, it is the fans, not D.J.'S or anyone else that have abandoned the Chicks. You can take it apart and put it back together any way you please, it is the same result.
If there was no complaints, you would hear plenty of the Chicks on the radio. Sorry.
Ray E. Strode
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ray E. Strode:
Duke, Supposedly the President is down in the Polls. However it appears the Chicks are even further down in the "Polls". Once again, it is the Fans that are "Voting" the Chicks "Out of Office" so to speak. Bush won the election. Get over it. I hear Lousiana is sinking. Move to higher ground. Move way up north. To Shreveport. </font> Ray, just because the majority does something does not make it right. People have been duped before. And later regretted being duped. As for "get over it," if one feels as I and millions of others do that the Dubya committed treason, you won't see any of us "getting over it." As far as the fans "voting" the Dixie Chicks out... the magnitude of how many country radio fans rejected them was made about 1,000 times worse by what country radio did. They incited the whole furor. I think the Dixie Chicks will be just fine in the long run. They will gain millions of new followers outside of country music. Plus, some country music fans will come back to them. They are very talented and I think the political situation will cause more people to rethink the whole situation. Time will tell.
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ok. I'm posting this just because I want to hear someone say it. I just saw a CBC interview. Turns out once the freeze was on DJs got actually fired for daring to play their music.
How about one of you Fine Americans tell me how that was the moral thing to do. I know what you're gonna say. I just want to hear someone who actually believes it step up and say it.
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"Last I checked, Europe was a continent."
same size
try googling "European Union"
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BitWhys:
How about one of you Fine Americans tell me how that was the moral thing to do. </font> OK. Here's how: Companies are in business to make money. Most of the time, they have shareholders, some whose retirement income depends on the company turning a profit. They also have many other employees who have families that depend on their paychecks. The company suits may have concluded that, by playing the Chick's music, they would lose listeners. Hence ratings. Hence advertising income. So maybe they ordered the DJ's not to play the Chick's music. Some did anyway.... Maybe the suits concluded that these DJ's were endangering the company. If so, maybe employees would have to be laid off. Maybe elderly shareholders would have to take a job bagging groceries in their golden years. So they considered the welfare of the bulk of their employees and their shareholders (who, this day and age, are generally not rich). And stacked it against the welfare of the DJ's who apparently found it necessary to make a statement. So whose side are you on? The company protecting its middle class employees and shareholders? Or the DJ's supporting the Dixie Chicks, who would never have to work another day in their lives. One could argue that the decision was entirely moral.... I'm not. And I admit my examples are facetious. Nevertheless, its been my experience that opposing sides rarely consist of good vs evil. Almost always, it's Joe Blow with his agenda vs Joe Blivet with his..... Scott [This message has been edited by scott59 (edited 08-18-2006).]
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Don't worry 'bout my brain Ms. Emily,,,,I've decided to <sigh> instead... Midnite ------------------ Satchel was right...Something is gaining on me.... www.jackcouldntmakeit.com
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Midnite Bob:
Don't worry 'bout my brain Ms. Emily,,,,I've decided to <sigh> instead...
Midnite
</font> Sorry 'bout that, Midnite ![[Linked Image]](http://www.justplainfolks.org/ubb/biggrin.gif) Let me atone: Picture yourself on a BOAT! on a RIVER! With TANGERINE DREAMS!!! and MARMALADE SKIES!!!!
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Well forgive me for saying so, or not, I really don't care, but when a singer says "I'm ashamed President Bush is from Texas" and the market backlash is so bad record executives are afraid to play her records I really have to wonder even more what all those soldiers are dying for.
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'T'aint you Scott, no need for 'tonement, even if I could offer it.... Midnite P.S I bought a 30 y/o bicycle this evening for rides around the lake....Ya got one guess what I've christened her.....I can't wait for Sunday night when "The Shatt Hits The Fan"(Comedy Central insider's reference) <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by scott59: Sorry 'bout that, Midnite
Let me atone:
Picture yourself on a BOAT! on a RIVER! With TANGERINE DREAMS!!! and MARMALADE SKIES!!!!</font> ------------------ Satchel was right...Something is gaining on me.... www.jackcouldntmakeit.com
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BitWhys:
Well forgive me for saying so, or not, I really don't care, but when a singer says "I'm ashamed President Bush is from Texas" and the market backlash is so bad record executives are afraid to play her records I really have to wonder even more what all those soldiers are dying for.</font> Nothing to forgive.... I see it a little differently. I see this episode as a shining example of our freedoms. But rather than put a lengthy post here, I'll note that Brian's post (4th one on page one of this thread) has already touched on this. The whole post is good but the first paragraph makes the point I'm driving at here. In these types of situations, we always seem to focus on the rights of speakers - and forget about the rights of the listeners to respond.... Scott P.S. In the general case of somebody making a statement that could damage, or even kill, their career: If they thought about the ramifications of their statement and went ahead anyway, I would have nothing but the highest respect for them - whether I agreed their views or not. On the other hand, if they just said it without thinking about any ramifications, I'd simply think they were clueless. Which of those happened here? I don't know - which is why I find it difficult to express an opinion about the Chicks' behavior. [This message has been edited by scott59 (edited 08-19-2006).]
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Midnite Bob:
I bought a 30 y/o bicycle this evening for rides around the lake....Ya got one guess what I've christened her.....I can't wait for Sunday night when "The Shatt Hits The Fan"(Comedy Central insider's reference)
</font> Ha! I don't even need one! Seen some of the commercials for the Comedy Central thing. Looks promising Scott
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by scott59:
Nothing to forgive....
I see it a little differently. I see this episode as a shining example of our freedoms.</font> and I see it as a shining example of how you've squandered your inheritance.
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Haven't been to a concert in years,but if I did go I would expect to be entertained for my hard earned money and not lectured to about some millionairs political beliefs e.g. Linda Rhonstadt in Vegas.Mr. Warren should visit a national guard armory or military base and call the soldiers "boys and girls." I'd like to see that.As A famous right-wing radio talk show host say's SHUT UP AND SING
[This message has been edited by ben willis (edited 08-19-2006).]
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from what I've seen The Chicks are better off for it.
[This message has been edited by BitWhys (edited 08-19-2006).]
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<sigh> Midnite ------------------ Satchel was right...Something is gaining on me.... www.jackcouldntmakeit.com
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BitWhys:
and I see it as a shining example of how you've squandered your inheritance.</font> You are, of course, welcome to your opinion. However, since it appears to me to be so completely at odds with the historical record, I'm led to conclude that you and I do not share enough of a common framework to hang a discussion on. We could build one but we would stray completely out of music and into politics - thereby giving the other members of this forum the opportunity to exercise their right of free speech and start throwing (metaphorical) tomatoes at both of us. Rightly so.... Maybe we'll bump into each other in a political forum someday and discuss the issue further. Being this is a music forum, I'm bowing out for now.... Scott
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I'm guessing Natalie figured she could squeek her little GB comment by in England without anyone across the water noticing or finding out what she said. Interesting she didn't make that little comment at a concert in her home state. Oh yeah . . . I'm supposed to come out and "say (what)who I'm talking about" . . . Natalie's home state is Texas. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.tabloidcolumn.com/images/nat_new.jpg) btw - my earlier reference in this thread was to Jerry Lee Lewis. His values didn't travel so well across the water and his career was never quite the same. ------------------ JavaMusiK
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Is an $11.5M gross over 19 shows and 10 sellouts supposed to be bad?
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BitWhys:
Is an $11.5M gross over 19 shows and 10 sellouts supposed to be bad?</font> Not at all, but . . . quite a difference from Summer 2003. $61M gross over 63 shows and 57 sellouts. 3rd in overall concert sales for the season - even with Maines firing off her remarks early on in that tour. Now, more than a few cancelled shows forcing a rather extensive revision of the current tour itinerary. At least they still have Canada & Australia to replace those cancelled shows with. Looking forward to some new thought provoking Natalie quotes to read soon! ------------------ JavaMusiK
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Hi guys... I see that this post has taken on a life of its own. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.justplainfolks.org/ubb/eek.gif) Glad that we all enjoy the freedom to express OUR views openly without having to worry that someone would ostracize US for it!! Hugs, Bobbie
They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you. Gallup 'n Dawg Music
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bobbie Gallup: Hi guys...
I see that this post has taken on a life of its own. Glad that we all enjoy the freedom to express OUR views openly without having to worry that someone would ostracize US for it!!
Hugs,
Bobbie</font> Not true Bobbie. Being reckless with where and how we say things, as well as what we choose to say, can easily get any one of us ostracized from a number of things. Go yell 'FIRE' in a public facility and see if they let you return the following day. We all have freedoms but also the right and responsibility to be accountable with them. Taking those freedoms for granted can be a dangerous and risky proposition. ------------------ JavaMusiK
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Hi Java,
While your example is certainly true, it is peripheral to the point I was making...we do in this nation have the right to freely express our views on political issues and how our elected leaders are performing at their tasks. However, along with that freedom comes the responsibility to be INFORMED and to contribute to the way our government acts. Blind patriotism (my country right or wrong) is just wrong...no matter WHAT nation is being discussed. That is how Germany got to where it did before WW2. To ostracize anyone for speaking their opinions regarding our leadership, regardless of the forum, to me is much akin to The Emperor's New Clothes. I do not, however, expect everyone to agree with me. THAT is what I think is wrong with what went on with the Chicks. Just because they are singers, why could it possibly be wrong for them to have an opinion and why would anyone feel compelled to dislike them for expressing it? I don't dislike anyone just because they don't see everything the same way I do. That is imcomprehensible to me. I support everyone's right to hold their own opinions..and to express them. That, to me is what the folks are supposedly fighting for over in Iraq at least the last I knew.
If you like someone's music...why would their politics matter at all? YIKES!!! Those two aren't even remotely related IMO.
Hugs,
Bobbie
They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you. Gallup 'n Dawg Music
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bobbie Gallup:
...we do in this nation have the right to freely express our views . . .</font> is where the line got blurred with the Chicks. They took their freedoms beyond our borders and assumed too much.
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Hi Java,
Where anyone says something is, to me, irrelevant. They are still Americans. Do we suddenly follow different rules when we in another country? If so...I don't know where the Constitution states anything like that. You are only an American when you are on American soil? I don't THINK so.
But you are free to hold a differing opinion...after all..you ARE an American (at least that is my assumption...and you know what they say about assumptions!).
Hugs,
Bobbie
They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you. Gallup 'n Dawg Music
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By your line of reasoning then, it is ok for the Islam punishment of stoning to take place on our land because Iranians should be able to follow their own rules when they our in our country. Right? After all, they are only an Iranian when they are on Iranican soil? I don't THINK so.
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An Ostrich? Who called Natalie an Ostrich. I don't think she looks like an Ostrich. That's outrageous! I think she is really pretty, sings good too. I just wish she'd keep her mouth shut when she ain't singin'. Then all this would just go away. Hi Bobbie ------------------ www.soundclick.com/billrobinson www.dreamqueststudio.com Bill Live with a song in your heart
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Hey Bill, *edit* Oh . . . I think I see now. You made a little funny there, didn't you? aaaahahahahahaaaa ![[Linked Image]](http://www.justplainfolks.org/ubb/wink.gif) [This message has been edited by JavaMusiK (edited 08-25-2006).]
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Now...some of you know my opinion of Mr bush...frankly..I think he's just a bit short of a horses arse on his best day!
(did I really say that?)
You self righteous folks have no problem with an American heralding his love of country and president anywhere in the world..but when this lady says something negative...you're all up in arms.
If she hadf said"George Bush is a great Texan" in England, you'd all say "There...that's a good American...exercising her right to stand up anywhere and say what she believes...Hooray for her!"
Some real hypocrisy going on here...
My friend Bill Robinson is as conservative as I am liberal...pay attention to the way he frames an opinion contrary to mine.
Some of you could learn a good lesson from him.
And..as a long time member of the show biz community, it is my learned opinion that the Chicks have a a great run...but the fact is...they might just have run their course...comments or not.
I think they are incredibly talented...but...I love strawberry ice cream aswell, and, honestly..sometimes I just get a bit too much and don't want any for a while.
Natalie is going to leave the Chicks eventually and she will have a fine and successful solo career.
Remember, you heard it here first.
Bob Young
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JavaMusiK:
By your line of reasoning then, it is ok for the Islam punishment of stoning to take place on our land because Iranians should be able to follow their own rules when they our in our country. Right? After all, they are only an Iranian when they are on Iranican soil? I don't THINK so.</font> nonsense. from western eyes one act is acceptable on both sides of the border the other is reprehensible. I'll leave it to you to continue trying to figure out which is which.
"Riding the SNAFU wav(e)"
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Hi Bob Sounds like you are feeling better. I hope so. I missed seeing you in TN this year. I need to get to Chi-town more and stop by for a cup. You said; Now...some of you know my opinion of Mr bush...frankly..I think he's just a bit short of a horses arse on his best day! Hmmmmm! A bit short of a horse....now what would that be? A Mule...no....ahhh maybe a Donkey. You're comparing him to a democrat?.....Now I take exception to that. Now if you'd a said "dumb as a box of rocks" it would a been more reasonable. ------------------ www.soundclick.com/billrobinson www.dreamqueststudio.com Bill Live with a song in your heart
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BitWhys:
nonsense. from western eyes one act is acceptable on both sides of the border the other is reprehensible. I'll leave it to you to continue trying to figure out which is which.
</font> I'm not so sure women voicing their opinions freely is acceptable in Iran. ------------------ JavaMusiK
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<sigh> Midnite [QUOTE]Originally posted by JavaMusiK: [B] I'm not so sure women voicing their opinions freely is acceptable in Iran. ------------------ Satchel was right...Something is gaining on me.... www.jackcouldntmakeit.com
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Eh, what the heck, I'll toss in a musical interlude from King Crimson:
Talk, its only talk
Arguments, agreements, advice, answers,
Articulate announcements
Its only talk
Talk, its only talk
Babble, burble, banter, bicker bicker bicker
Brouhaha, boulderdash, ballyhoo
Its only talk
Back talk
Talk talk talk, its only talk
Comments, cliches, commentary, controversy
Chatter, chit-chat, chit-chat, chit-chat,
Conversation, contradiction, criticism
Its only talk
Cheap talk
Talk, talk, its only talk
Debates, discussions
These are words with a d this time
Dialogue, dualogue, diatribe,
Dissention, declamation
Double talk, double talk
Talk, talk, its all talk
Too much talk
Small talk
Talk that trash
Expressions, editorials, expugnations, exclamations, enfadulations
Its all talk
Elephant talk, elephant talk, elephant talk
------------------
In order to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, think about the guy who invented sliced bread. He didn’t invent bread, he didn’t invent slicing. He just put together two things that hadn’t been put together before in a way people liked.
"Wave your flag, wave the bible, wave your sex or your business degree
Whatever you want -- but don't wave that thing at me"
-Bruce Cockburn
I'm just a verb living in the body of a noun.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Midnite Bob:
<sigh>
Midnite
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JavaMusiK:
[B] I'm not so sure women voicing their opinions freely is acceptable in Iran.
</font> Great point.
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Hey Java, <sigh> has become my mantra lately. It can be interpretted however anyone wants to interpret it, is very easy to spell & darned hard to argue with. Midnite <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JavaMusiK:
Great point.</font> ------------------ Satchel was right...Something is gaining on me.... www.jackcouldntmakeit.com
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Howdy Java, It's strange..but nowhere in my comment did I say nor imply that what is acceptable for an American would be acceptable in Iraq or from an Iraqi. We have a Constitution that applies to all Americans. That is all I stated. Extrapolating that comment to other nations or situations is baseless. As is often the case with discussions where one party is unable to present their position with reasonable logic..the tendency is to try to deflect the train of thought into irrelevant diversions. Fortunately most folks are observant enough to see through that. Nice try anyway. LOL Hugs, Bobbie
They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you. Gallup 'n Dawg Music
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Hi Bobbie, Let me see if I interpreted this all correctly. You've indicated that I am being unreasonable and irrelevant with your following statement: As is often the case with discussions where one party is unable to present their position with reasonable logic..the tendency is to try to deflect the train of thought into irrelevant diversions. Fortunately most folks are observant enough to see through that. Nice try anyway.I'm not sure I see the unreasonableness or irrelevance of my points you are referring to. See below. You start off your response by stating: It's strange..but nowhere in my comment did I say nor imply that what is acceptable for an American would be acceptable in Iraq or from an Iraqi.If that is the case, then how do you explain this particular statement you made in an earlier reply? (I originally was talking about Iran, by the way, not Iraq. But no biggie.) Do we suddenly follow different rules when we (???) in another country?Maybe the missing word in that statement is the key which might explain our difference in understanding each other. I don't know. We have a Constitution that applies to all Americans. That is all I stated.We may want to explore how far our rights extend. When in Rome . . . show how ugly Americans can truly be? Then wonder why everyone hates us so? Most countries have some sort of Constitution or list of rules and rights their citizens are expected to follow. You then noted that: Extrapolating that comment to other nations or situations is baseless.Interesting. What is baseless? Are you implying that we can follow our rules wherever we want, but citizens of other countries cannot heed their rules when they are here? How is that comment baseless? Or were you just looking for a great context to use the word extrapolate and throw in a little innuendo implying my "inability to present my (their) position with reasonable logic..the tendency being (is) to try to deflect the train of thought into irrelevant diversions."? Sorry, I don't see the irrelevant diversion. Bobbie, I have no beef with you and am sure you're a nice person. Your smilies and Hugs and warm greetings indicate so. Even the *cute* little LOL's. I just wonder if you've remembered to take your rose colored glasses off. In order for us to have a relevant and meaningful discussion about Natalie, it is necessary to explore what it is that grinds the gears of the other party you're alluding to. It seems a tad hypocritical to expect visitors to our nation to abide by our government's guidelines, then turn around and say that when we go out and visit their country, we get to follow our own rules. If this is too much of a leap and you don't follow the logic which you also alluded to as not being reasonable, then I think our discussion cannot go any further. "Fortunately most folks are observant enough to see through that. Nice try anyway." SINLOL ------------------ JavaMusiK
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Howdy Java, Yes..for the record, I am a nice person. I may also wear rose colored glasses at times. However, I do not see the connection between an American speaking their "opinion" in another country...and someone from another nation stoning someone here in America. Can you explain to me how those two actions are in any way connected logically? That is where I see the logic breaking down. Logic goes: If A is true and A=B is true, then C is true..ie: If A=Americans are free to express their opinions and B=Natalie is an American, then C=Natalie is free to express her opinions. You cannot, however, extrapolate from that statement to the stoning issue. There is no law or regulation, Constitutional or otherwise that would state otherwise. Not so with the stoning scenario you propose because there ARE laws to prevent that in some nations including this one. Perhaps I am missing something here...but then, I am an American and I feel as though I am free to express my opinion here...just as you are. I have also traveled abroad. The Ugly American issue is very real..and seems to be perpetuated by narrow-minded citizens of this country who expect to be treated better than everyone else. I also do not see the relevance of that issue to the one being discussed here...which is more closely aligned to Natalie expecting to be treated LIKE everyone else. No one would have paid one whit of attention to her if she had just been a nobody like me. I could have stood on any street corner in London and said the same thing and no one would have thought anything wrong with it...except that some folks there likely would have applauded me. <G> Why make an example of someone just because they are a celebrity? I like their music. I don't care about their politics. That is my point. As Bob Young said...if she had said she was proud that Bush was from TX...folks back home would have thought nothing of it. I just despise the hypocrisy involved. That is my whole point. And yes..I do give hugs. You know...it is good to keep your friends close...and your enemies closer!! Bobbie
They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you. Gallup 'n Dawg Music
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