JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum The Chick "Choke"...article by Steve Warren

As he says...this won't make everybody happy...but then, neither did Rock 'n Roll! I happen to agree with him...so you can stone me as the messenger if you wish.

Bobbie

The Chick “Choke”

Author: Steve Warren
CEO for Music 1, Inc./Warren Country Consulting
steve@gomusic1.com
http://www.gomusic1.com
Steve Warren


The views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily that of AllAboutCountry.com
July 9, 2006

The Chick “Choke”


Okay, this is going to piss-off some people, maybe even a lot of people. But I'm at the age now where I don't really care all that much. I've been in this biz a long time, longer than most of the folks reading this have been on the planet and I'm here to say that the still on-going Dixie Chicks episode is the second stupidest thing I have ever seen a radio format do. The capper was the circular firing squads in the late 70s when those heritage AM Top 40 stations began switching to all-Disco. There's little chance of Country stations taking the kind of ratings dive those brainiacs did. For one thing, Country listeners are incredibly loyal. For another, there's no place for them to go. Web stations aren't available in cars just yet.

Collectively, Country radio allowed a few idiots within our business to take one big crap on the heads of our premiere superstars. No, not all Country programmers joined in the stoning but those who didn't stood by silently and let it happen, participating by removing them from the library. They took the most important brand-name we had off our shelves. Talk about your circular firing squads. My, my. Can anyone imagine Adult Rock doing such a thing to Springsteen? Not a chance. He could call the president a war criminal and it wouldn't cost him one spin.

This would've blown over quickly had we defended their American right to say whatever they please, or had we simply ignored it, not said a word on the air and continued to play their monster hits. And remember this: they are the biggest selling female group of all time. Moreover, take another listen to the song that was #1 on the charts the week before Country radio dropped it. "Travelin' Solider", arguably the most poignant, honor the soldier, honor the sacrifice hit song ever. Take a good hard look at the hell-hole our guys are in over there and then listen to that record again. Talk about resonance! Talk about relevance! It can make grown men cry.

The Chicks were the greatest ambassadors for the format since the Garth explosion. Indeed, it could be argued they were even better for us than Garth because they have been icons of fun-loving, sexy but happily-married, hard-working, dues-paying, tradition-honoring makers of fresh, exciting multi-demo, soul satisfying Modern American Country music. Everybody knew it and everybody loved them. People who 'hate' Country music loved them. Damn, these girls were good. Not 'were', still are. The new album is great. Going into 7th week, it remains Number One and with virtually no airplay. The first single was a top download on iTunes for weeks. Had not all this have happened, the second single would be in Power rotation on every station by now. As is, it's not even on the charts. My professional ear says there are at least three others on that album that are Top 10 hits-that-will-never-be because they will be denied shelf space on playlists.

Virtually nobody stood up to defend them. We acted just like the citizens of Salem in 1692. And what Natalie said was so utterly innocuous. "We're embarrassed that the president of the United States from Texas." That's IT! We'd just come out of a decade in which the right wing of the nation had been insulting the president in the most guttural ways. Clinton fathered black babies. Clinton was a child molester. Clinton was running coke up from Central America. Clinton had one of his very best friends, a guy he'd known since kindergarten, murdered. Insulting the president in the most slovenly of terms was a team sport for all kinds of columnists, pundits and malcontents on the right and tolerated by those on the left as only and an odor that we have to accept as a natural byproduct of living in a free speech nation.

"Oh," they said, "but Natalie insulted the president in a foreign land!!", as if that made the deed all the more dirty. Listen, moron, the only nation that is less 'foreign' to us is Canada. England is family, don't you know? Mr. Bush's number one partner in the "coalition of the willing."

What happened was a feeding frenzy that Country radio primarily stirred up and brought upon ourselves. She said it in England at a weekend concert. It was reported in a UK paper. Sometime the next week one of the jock prep-sheets put the blurb in their daily dish. Then some few Country morning show guys then started talking about it using the 'with us or with the enemy' bullshit that the administration was then shoveling.

So, certainly such a thing got hot voicers from the phones, which the morning teams aired. Next, they started their instant 'polls' "Should we squash'em or what?! Come on gang, grab some rocks and let's go teach the bitches what it means to be a red blooded American." That bit of loud mouth bullying then got the ant hill all stirred up. So, soon we had the station in KC with a 'burn their CD's' rally and the one in Shreveport with the 'drive the tractors over the CDs' rally, both of which gave the bubble-headed bleached blondes of local TV some visuals and got the station call letters on the evening news and oh, don't we radio guys just love to have our faces on the TV news? The video then got to the national news. Oh, yeah! our station made CBS Evening News, ain't we great!!!


I noticed that, as per usual, those were the only two videos all the national networks were running; the one from KC and the one from Shreveport. And I also noticed the shots were tight-focus, there was not a big crowd at either event. The 'crowd' shot I saw in KC looked like about two dozen people were there. How many were station personnel, I wondered. And when they pulled back from the boot stomping on a CD down in Louisiana we saw that the foot in the boot belonged to some 13 year old kid.

Country radio absolutely started this. Would it have happened if the first morning shows hadn't talked about it and fanned the flames? Maybe. But I doubt it would have become a national story had not some radio programmers decided it was a 'promotion'. So, it was a fine old time, just like the witch trials.

Not long after this sorry ball got to rolling, I watched a rock n' roll history documentary on PBS. The grainy old video showed a couple of disc jockeys in St. Louis, circa '57, breaking 45s vowing to only play "good" music from thence forward. Deja vu. Same [naughty word removed], different assholes.

Without Country radio's instigation, would the crucifixion have happened anyway? Possibly. We do live in a culture corrupted by the daily bile and rants of neo-fascist idiots and liars like Rush Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Hannity. But if right-wing radio hosts had tried to keep the episode going, we wouldn't have had to enable them with our acquiescence and participation. We could've defended our family and the American right to say whatever we dammed well please. But no. Burning them at the stake was just too much fun for some morning hosts looking for free press to stroke their own egos. And everybody else was just too timid to speak up and call it out for what it was: a gang rape.

Today, some in the biz are now justifying their refusal to play the Chicks because "they're out there sayin' bad things about the format, so screw them." Hummm. The format slaps them in the face, disowns them, shits in their plate and they are heartbroken and hurt because the family has cast them out for no good reason, so they say a few uncomplimentary things about Country radio on 60 Minutes. Well, that is perfectly understandable, wouldn't you think? Totally appropriate, too, because the shoe fits. And still, that is no good reason for any Country programmer to say he is justified in continuing to withhold airplay. Shoot yourself in the foot and cut your nose off to spite your face, lame brain.

Oh, but we now have research telling us not to play them. Larry Rosin presented some data at the last convention saying 20-some percent of our core audience thinks they should be banned. Quoting RFK here, 20% of the people are against everything all the time. I say So What!? Do we really want to have our programming decisions guided by the most ignorant of our listeners?

We've spent decades supplying Country radio sales people with consumer data refuting the Country stereotype. Ours is one of the most educated audiences, over all. Ours is clearly the most main- stream of middle American demographic groups. But, yes, we also do have some of the dumbest white people on the planet listening to us, as well. They are the ones who still believe Saddam was in cahoots with bin Laden. They are the ones who still believe 9/11 was planned and carried out by Iraqis. They are the ones who still say our boys and girls are dying in the desert fighting for our 'freedom'. They are the ones who call us on the phone and scream "Get those traitor bitches off the air or I'll never listen to you again."

So, the knuckle-draggers in our audience, are driving the programming bus. Country radio programmers, for the most part, want to play them, I think. I hope. But they get these hate calls from wingnuts, so they chicken out and don't spin the Chicks. If you got any guts, if you are truly a patriot, you ought to stand up for what's right. We're not talking about playing stiffs here, we're talking about smash it records, folks.

Those folks aren't gonna leave us. They may rant a bit, sure, but it'll fade away. They are and always will be Country listeners. Plus, in the age of consolidation, few Country stations have competition that their company doesn't also own. They won't be leaving because the Chicks are on the air. They've got no place else to go. Are they going to the webcasters? No, you don't get webcasts in the car and at home these people have a hard enough time setting the clocks on their VCRs, so tuning into a web station is more than they can handle. Besides, the Chicks are all over the web, my friends.

Listen, these cretins are the spawn of the people who used to call me on my request line back in the mid-'60s and shout "get that ****** music off the air." What I'd do was come out of the next Beatles or Beach Boys record with a double-shot of Wilson Pickett and James Brown in my very next set. But then, I was young and idealistic. And I had an owner who said "****'em, kid, play the hits."

The Chicks are still getting huge publicity with the release of the new album. They were on the cover of Time magazine twice within a month. All kinds of other magazines and newspapers have done stories on them, as has every entertainment oriented TV news and magazine show. And almost every one of them has pointed a finger at Country radio as being too intolerant to play their music. This just confirms the stereotype image of us all as close-minded, reactionary, intolerant and ignorant. The polling bears that out. I've seen numbers already that suggest the overwhelming majority of respondents now say Country radio is wrong for not playing Dixie Chicks. Country programmers are ignoring that and still courting the ugliest 20%.

I have loved this format, this music, and the people who make it run with all my heart. But today, with this sorry episode, I'm deeply embarrassed.

Well, The "Chicks" are still getting bashed in places. There are some real severe ones in the rant area on the ********* web site. I don't think the Chicks will ever recover their former popularity but may still be sucessful in releasing new material. They spoke their piece and the fans spoke their piece. As they say, you can't unring the bell.

Well, The "Chicks" are still getting bashed in places. There are some real severe ones in the rant area on the blanked out web site. I don't think the Chicks will ever recover their former popularity but may still be sucessful in releasing new material. They spoke their piece and the fans spoke their piece. As they say, you can't unring the bell.

The credibility of his points (most of which are correct) are tempered by his own suggestion that those against the Chicks shouldn't equally be able to speak and act as they want with the same freedom he suggests the Chicks deserve. It's the same trap many fall into in these arguments. They scream that the Chicks shouldn't be punished for their free speech, but the "punishment" they got was a direct result of others exercising their own rights and free speech and freedom of choice. You can't have it both ways. No one has forced the chicks to say or not say anything they want. They can't force fans or decision makers from playing, not playing, liking or not liking them in return. It's ironically EXACTLY part of the free speech process he claims is being assaulted. But he's wrong. It's simply another example of proof that free speech, whether offensive to him or others, is alive and well. He's missing the forest for his owned biased trees. It's possible that some of us may agree with his disappointment that free speech has resulted in the Chicks being scorned.. but that very scorn itself IS FREE SPEECH.

To suggest they have some pre-ordained right to be broadcasted on radio would raise the question of whether every other talented artist who is ignored is getting equally screwed. For every Dixie Chicks song not played, there are literally a million other great songs ALSO not played for a vast number of reasons, some legit, some biased, some racist, some unfairly, many because people illegally buy airtime (including the Dixie Chicks own label by their own admission) and so on. The system that gave them carte blanche radio play for anything they released for years is a fickle thing. They were at one time the biggest benefactors.. now they find themselves a bit more on the outside looking in. Join the club of your far less fortunate peer writers and artists who never got to enjoy the love affair radio had with your music in the first place DC's.

I personally like the Chicks music. Their version of my friend Susan Gibson's Wide Open Spaces set her up for life to pursue her own talent and passion on her own terms. But for every DC group, there's hundreds of equally deserving ones that get shut out of ever having a single chance at the opportunities that were given to the DC's over their career. And let's face it, it's not like they're not selling records or not successful beyond 99.9999% of the humans of the planet's wildest dreams. They're still a top tier, fabulously wealthy trio set for life on all levels. Having someone suggest "poor little Dixie Chicks" is a bit ironic while at the same time calling attention to people who REALLY are getting screwed.. like soldiers and their families or the worlds poor and starving or even the legions of artists who never got a fair shot at a single opportunity to have their music heard on mainstream radio ironically due in part to the Chicks own corporate label illegally keeping them off with Payola. If the Dixie Chicks never got another single song played on the radio EVER, they've been given more support than any other female artist group in history. It's like feeling bad for an NBA player who doesn't hit all his contract bonuses and only makes 120 million instead of 150 million. It's a hollow concern in the scheme of things.

The other observation I have is that the radio stations who don't play what people want eventually lose ratings and the staff loses their jobs. As internet radio finds ways into our non tethered lives, a lot will change. Most of the groups like the Chicks may find even LESS airplay in the first place or in the long run because there won't be artificial roadblocks filtering out the other 99% of artists and writers as the current radio model with it's payola and corporate control, which the Chicks have benefited from as much as anyone else in history until now, starts to fade in relevance in lieu of on demand and more open minded, less corporate controlled formats. It's simply hard to cry for some of the richest and most powerful music artists in the world when so many talented others were kept OFF radio while their songs dominated in part because of the artificial forces their corporate owners used.

Food for thought. It's rarely as black and white as any passionate advocate might suggest. Interesting article though. That's for posting it. I like reading passionate well spoken advocates, whether I totally agree with their premise or not.

Brian

[This message has been edited by Brian Austin Whitney (edited 07-11-2006).]

Here here. I too like the Chicks, but...

I'd be happy to be in their position to be granted a forum to say that in front of thousands if not millions of fans. To suggest they deserve radio play over myself or any of my peers that equally has the talent is silly. I don't care what format the station is. They got there with hard work, payola backing and a bit of luck. So crying foul about it is Just Plain Stupid.

Jody

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Music That Makes Your Soul Happy!
www.jodywhitesides.com

I totally agree with the author of that article. Thank you for posting it, Bobbie.

I was never so ashamed of the country music industry as I was with the Chicks fiasco. Ashamed, I tell ya. I hope they make a bazillion dollars with (edit: "withOUT") country radio.

The only good thing is that I wrote a couple of good songs as a result of this. Of course, country radio wouldn't play them but I sure like 'em.

[This message has been edited by DukeWill (edited 07-12-2006).]

Dear Bobbie,

Thanks so much for posting this article.

Nice to hear a different point of view. I have gotten really tired of people bashing the Dixie Chicks for stating opinions....funny...the same people rant about THEIR right to free speech...but when there is an opinion differnt from their owm...they are the first ones to say
free speech isn't the issue!

I TOTALLY agree with Dukewill here!

The first thing my husband and I did when this fiasco started was go out and BUY the Dixie Chicks CD !!!

Go, Chicks!

Emily

[This message has been edited by Emily Sanders (edited 07-11-2006).]

Seems a little like John Lennon with his "Beatles are bigger than Jesus" crack.

Who knows how big THEY could have been

Although this seems to be going on longer.

Maybe it just seems that way.....

Or maybe the Chicks have tapped into something that the Beatles couldn't

Scott

Howdy Ray,

Haven't been to that other site in years...mostly because of the ranting that was so pervasive then. Sounds like it is still going on...probably some of those knuckle-draggers he is talking about. Thanks for taking time to read this. Funny thing is..I think his whole point was that it wasn't primarily the "fans" who spoke. My interpretation of his words are that he is saying that it was the radio programmers looking for a promo.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Brian,

To my way of thinking...any cd that is able to make it to the top 3 on Billboard without radio play...tells me that it wasn't the fans who spoke negatively about the Chicks. As I said above...this article..at least to me is all about the radio programmers who were trying to create a controversy where none really existed...or at least a very minimal one. There are a lot of folks out there who simply love being in the center of a big drama at all times, whether real or created. I know folks like that. We all do.

I was sure this would bring out opinions on both sides. For once I was right. LOL

Hugs,
Bobbie

Bobbie,

Rap music regularly FAR outsells ANY country music in terms of album sales with ZERO radio play. ZERO.

People act like the Chicks have a birthright to radio airplay. They don't. People are not played on the radio for all sorts of bad reasons. The fact that the Chicks own record corporation confessed to illegal payola to help them and their label mates get illegal airplay for years and years means they've gotten more than they (or anyone in their situation) actually deserved in the first place. There's such a double standard here.

Free speech applies to BOTH sides. But it seems that both sides of this (the PRO and the ANTI Dixie Chick crowds) seem to want to shut the other side down. The reality is that they BOTH have the right to say what they want.. they have the right to tell others to be for or against. People ban stuff ALL THE TIME. Being able to boycott or ban something is an important part of free speech. Can't you guys see that? Should people be forced to play Dixie Chick music? Okay.. who else should they be forced to play? And who needs to be removed to make room? Which artist gets the ax? Please think this through.

Brian

Howdy Brian,

Heck I am not disagreeing with what you are saying...merely don't see that as the issue here. Nobody is forcing anyone to play anything. The issue as I read it was that the programmers created a controversy that did not really exist. Has it happened before? Yes...will it happen again...probably. A lot of folks who really enjoy Chick's music were the losers here. We also voted with our wallets...and chose to go out and buy the cd regardless of airplay. Regardless of any of the issues you bring up..payola, undeserved airplay...whatever...there are a whole lot of us who truly love to listen to them. I am not and I did not see that the author was trying to shut anyone else up at all. I fully believe everyone is entitled to speak their mind in this country. I do think, however, that many of us who did support the Chicks all along were way too silent when all this was going on. Anyone and everyone can choose to disagree with me..and freely say so. I'd be the first person in line to stand up for your right to disagree with me..with the president...or whomever. What I truly was personally disappointed in was that anyone would chastise anybody else for saying what they believe when that is one of the founding principles of this country...and IMO one of the things that our armed forces are supposedly over there fighting for. It just seems so totally hypocritical.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Duke,

Sorry I answered Brian out of turn there...but he is online...and I figure you're probably snoozing by this time. Thank you so much for taking time to read this and share your thoughts on it. While I agree with the radio stations' right to play who they choose to...they ought to be smart enough to recognize that people who loved the Chicks music aren't quite as fickle as the programmers figured they were...hence the huge sales despite the lack of airplay. The radio in my car died...and to be honest...I haven't really missed it. I can play my cds and listen to the folks I choose to whenever I want to.

Thanks again...

Hugs,
Bobbie

"The entire country may disagree with me, but I don't understand the necessity for patriotism. Why do you have to be a patriot? About what? This land is our land? Why? You can like where you live and like your life, but as for loving the whole country… I don't see why people care about patriotism." Natlie Maines (as reported in the Telegraph, June 2006)

Bobbie,

I am not aware of anyone stopping the Chicks from saying anything. Free speech doesn't at all mean freedom from the possible negative reaction and ramifications of that speech. They were free to say what they did and they did. Others were free to respond by doing what they could to refute and negatively impact them commercially in return. In return to that, Chicks fans still were free to buy the music and support those places where Chicks music was available. Internet radio ALWAYS has someone playing the chicks. So if people are bothered by their lack of airplay, they should simply shift to Internet radio, or, as many have done, just buy their CD. They make a lot of money from CD sales so some could argue their lack of airplay (and subsequent satiation of fans desire to hear them) may have resulted in a lot more CD sales that may never have happened if all their songs were hot rotation. Really the only people that got hosed here were the songwriters who didn't get the big payday they probably expected from airplay. But hell, great songwriters get screwed every single day because of the system. At least in the case of the Chicks, the system has rewarded them handsomely for years and years. You live by the corrupt system and sometimes die by it too. The chicks are doing just fine. Their fans have all sorts of access to their music. The subsequent backlash to the original backlash has just as many political implications and manipulation in it as the original did. In the end, it's the same old 2 tired Left Wing/Right Wing fanatics that frankly have worked hard to ruin our country. I personally dislike both sides very strongly. Us 80% in the middle of the two 10% fringe sides have to deal with the aftermath of both sides and their regular scorched earth tactics. I only wish some day the middle would tell both sides to F$%# OFF and leave the sane people alone to live a decent life without their histrionics and BS.

How's that for voicing my opinion! Guess I'll never get radio airplay from either side now.

Brian

Howdy Ms Emily,

Yep...reminds me of the article I read in Country Weekly..actually a letter from a serviceman who had just returned from duty in Iraq. He said he was appalled that anyone would suggest that any citizen of this country not be able to say what they believe about our leadership. He alluded to that line of thinking as being somewhat akin to what was going on in Germany when Hitler rose to power. Those who did see through his line of reasoning but who said nothing were as much to blame for the results as those who were in lockstep with his thinking. It is the hypocrisy that is the issue here IMO.

Thanks for stopping in.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Hi Marty..

Yep, she said that...and blind patriotism is what got Germany into a position to start WW2 and annihilate much of the Jewish population of Europe. I am one of those who chokes up when I see the flag in the parade..and when I think of all who serve and have served in the military..those who gave their lives for the rest of us so we can enjoy our freedoms. BUT...I also firmly believe that we must retain not just the right, but the OBLIGATION to question our leadership when we think that that leadership is taking our nation in the wrong direction.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Brian,

You know...from my days in marketing...it would seem that the real issue is that the 80% you are talking about are the biggest part of the problem because such a large percentage of them just don't bother to get involved one way or the other..so we end up leaving the decision making to that 10% (lunatic) fringe on either side. That is pretty sad but unfortunately...pretty much the state of affairs. In other nations, people die for the right to cast a vote...and here..we can't be bothered to get to the polls. Then we have the audacity to complain about how things are going. Ummmm...I did say the issue was hypocrisy, didn't I?

Now...please get back to your work!! You have far more important things to contend with than disagreeing with me...cause I'm not arguing with ya!! LOL

Hugs,
Bobbie

So true - but I'd be scared of everybody going to the polls unless they try to educate themselves. Paraphrased from "The Art Of War" - ...the masses are swayed by emotion...the will to obtain education AND voting is the key to maintaining a free society

Howdy Jody,

Sorry I missed you in the fray. If the world were truly a "fair" place...all talented folks would have a level playing field with the same opportunities. I think most of us who think we have talent would also love to be where they are now. There are a lot of reasons why certain "acts" rise to the top and as you say...fairness may not be one of those. But for those of us who sat on the sidelines while someone else decided "for us" that the Chicks were wrong to say what they did, we don't see the core issue as stupid at all. But I defend your right to think and say so.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Thank-you-Bobbie-for-the-posts.

To-ban-or-boycott-something-or-someone-based-on-hype-lies-and-ignorance-would-be-as-

empty-and-deceitful-as-those-who-caused-such-an-action-to-be-considered-in-the-first-place.

To-me-there-is-a-big-difference-between-'Freedom-of-Speech'-and-the-freedom-to-promote-

hate-crimes-against-anyone.

And-it-was-the-Springer-attitude-of-some-Country-Radio-Stations-that-lead-it's-listeners-
into-a-

hate-filled-life-threatening-witch-hunt...simply-for-'RATINGS'-and-the-$-that-they-b ring.

Freedom-of-Speech-is-not-and-was-never-the-situation-here!

Chris

Sorry_if_the_hyphens_are_causing_any_of_you_ultra_wide_window_pain...haha///but_my_
space_bar_is_broken_and_I_don't_know_any_other_way_to_make_a_sentence_readable...
I_won't_post_any

_more_here_till_I_get_a_new_keyboard.My_apologies!

[This message has been edited by Brian Austin Whitney (edited 07-13-2006).]

vontanner, it probably took you 20 minutes to write that post with all the hyphens. I wonder if you would be so kind to take another 20 minutes and remove them? It's screwing up the width of this page, making it ultra-wide. Thank you.

"They scream that the Chicks shouldn't be punished for their free speech, but the "punishment" they got was a direct result of others exercising their own rights and free speech and freedom of choice."

really?

you think clear channel flexing its oligargical market muscle is a free speech right?

that's odd. I think its fascism.

Posting here changes no minds. It just voices opinions.

If you want change, call the station, buy or don't buy a cd and most of all vote.

One thing I've noticed, as a tide turns, it's the 20% that turn it, and the 80% surf on it.

The two most active types are: ardent follower, usually allying not with an idea, but with a group of people who give them something (identity, power, safety) and will follow their group even when it is proven wrong; and the pathological leader who will jump in front of a movement and say,"follow me," adjusting their values to the morphs of the group. There are few statesmen and few true patriots, most will, at times, do things against the best interest of the country to keep alive the cause.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Mike

p.s. dang, this width of this thread is annoying, now that I know what causes it (thanks for the info, Duke), I will remember never to construct an unbroken line of characters that extend very long, and if, by some remission, I find that I have done that, I'll certainly edit it.

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 07-12-2006).]

Folks...

The article writer only touched on the massive consolidation of radio ownership that's happened over the last 20 years.

Most stations are owned by just a few companies, which are overwhelmingly headed by Bush-supporting right-wingers. It's these who are driving the controversy and the stupid boycott.

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Later,

Pat

I am very neutral in this whole argument- but I think there is one very key element in this argument that is being overlooked. I truly believe if the chicks said what they did over HERE in the USA, they would've been viewed by the right as just another Clooney, Springsteen, left side thing. What STARTED the clamor, was that they were bashing our leaders on FOREIGN soil. The war draws intense feelings on the left AND right, and people have the right to say what they want--
But at the end of the day, this is STILL THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Alot of the rest of the world hates us for one reason or another. Yes, we can debate within us, but I DO believe it IS classless to go and create even more hate in other parts of the world than there already is. This is what is at the core of the "chicks" issue in my opinion.

Herbie

Hi Liszt,

Funny, but I don't recall the framers of our Constitution putting anything in there about intelligence or the need to be educated regarding leaders and policy being a prerequisite to voting. Yes there are a lot of ignorant people out there but they still have the right to cast a ballot in our society. Yes voters SHOULD take time to educate themselves...but alas, that is not required nor is our society or our freedom predicated on that.

Hugs,
Bobbie

I think we're choking our OWN chickens, beating this subject to death! {LOL}

------------------
bc

Webb Pierce forever!

Hi Chris,

Talk radio is definitely one of those tools that has been unleashed on the public which seems to bring out the worst in people..who suddenly feel that even their most racist, bigoted or phobic attitudes are supported by countless other "faceless" people...including the hate-mongering show hosts who love to see how far they can push people's buttons. And yeah...sadly...it does bring in big ratings. Why does it always come down to the money?

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Bit,

Nice to hear from our Canadian contingent! I agree with you on the Clear Channel thing. Never was about freedom of speech. It was about who had the biggest bat in the rack.

Best,
Bobbie

Hey Mikey...in my opinion..LOL you are right as usual (although being a female I certainly retain the right to change my opinion! ) This wasn't posted to change anyone's core beliefs but to see what others think about the subject.

Years ago, my job necessitated a great deal of involvement with the political process at the state level (NOT in TN..another state)..and that experience was incredibly revealing about the nature of decision-making in this country. As you said...the huge majority of folks are totally UNINVOLVED. More or less just want to be left alone.

Unfortunately, in a democracy, that doesn't work because the decisions made by those in government impact nearly every facet of our lives...and it is nearly impossible to make everyone happy on any issue. So..on most issues it is a matter of making everyone a little bit unhappy and some folks will always be VERY unhappy with any given decision.

So the 80% surfs until the waves in some area get too overwhelming on some issue they can't ignore and then they scream "foul" and wonder why.

Yep, there are crooks, criminals and all sorts of bad people in government...but hey...that is true of every business everywhere. There are also a LOT of very dedicated people who really do try to make the best decisions for the squeaky wheels who bother to let them know what they want the decision-makers to do. If lobbyists and PACs are the only ones they hear from..who is to blame? When was the last time you called your Senator or Congressman and expressed a concern or wrote a letter. I am guessing that no more than 10% of the folks reading this thread have done so in the past year.

Guess I will get my surfboard waxed for the next wave!

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Pat,

It's a funny thing about how the media seems to be in the hands of an increasingly smaller and smaller group. The realist in me says this is a bad thing, when a few with an agenda control what we hear. Seems like a recipe for disaster actually...sort of borderline what seems to occur in all those "bad countries" we don't like in other parts of the world. Hmmmm Sadly, perhaps the "Axis of Evil" is tilted a bit on the home front.

Hugs,
Bobbie

here's a chicks thread on the NS board
http://mboard.usanetwork.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=276742



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Howdy Herbie,

Can't say as I buy that line of reasoning myself. Why should it matter one whit where we state our views. I don't think that there are any codicils in the Constitution that restrict "where" we voice our opinions...from the safety of our own shores or somewhere else.

Oh..and the author DID cover this subject...see article above: "Oh," they said, "but Natalie insulted the president in a foreign land!!", as if that made the deed all the more dirty. Listen, moron, the only nation that is less 'foreign' to us is Canada. England is family, don't you know? Mr. Bush's number one partner in the "coalition of the willing." Oh...and I am NOT calling you a moron!!

There were and are, indeed, a LOT of people in other nations who agree with you (and me) that this really IS the greatest nation on earth. But we are also the greediest in terms of consumption and negative impacts on the earth. If we want the rest of the world to keep us on that pedestal on which we think we belong...we need to act the role of responsible world leadership. Sometimes we do...sometimes we fall very short. Sometimes we ought to actually LISTEN to the rest of the world's opinions of us.

In the case of the Chicks commentary in the UK...IMO it was a matter of playing to that particular audience...something all good entertainers do to gain acceptance. At that point in time...much of the world WAS opposed to the decisions that our leaders were making. I daresay that Bono, Springsteen and all the other very opinionated major artists probably don't change their views or the way they express them when traveling and performing abroad either. Why would anyone expect that of them? That is hardly logical. They are entitled to say what they think regardless of where they are at any given time. As Americans, we ought to be applauding these folks for exercising their freedoms and for caring enough to speak out instead of chastising anyone.

Hugs,
Bobbie

It served as a very timely reminder that The Machine operates on standardized parts.

so let it be written
so let it be done

Ok, plan B. Delete your entire post. Stick your cursor in there and camp out on Delete.



[This message has been edited by Brian Austin Whitney (edited 07-13-2006).]

Oh, my goodness...

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Later,

Pat

Bobbie
Peoples "perception" is 99% of their reality-
Not trying to be too deep here, I'm simply saying that doing it in another country, is why this REALLY caused such an uproar. I am NOT judging or arguing left or right. Personally, I find it offensive when you go out for entertainment and the performer injects politics into the evening. I hate it on either side of the aisle--if I spent my money to go out and have fun I can only take a little drop of politics---
The country thing--- If you have a fight with your wife, you argue at HOME- You might even go out and bag her to your friends (although this will usually come back to haunt you)--but you just DON'T go somewhere and bag her to a bunch of strangers in a different land---sorry, but I have no respect for what they did, MOSTLY because they did it overseas. Do they have the right to say whatever they want? Maybe--- Is it appropriate? I think not.

Hi Herbie...

This is totally unrelated to this thread but I have been trying to reach you via email. It is urgent...about Pineyfest. Can you either call me at my work number (931-388-1339 X 246) yet this evening or email me ASAP at bgallup@aol.com. I don't have your number and the herbietunes email doesn't seem to reach you.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Bobbie, check your email.. I heard from Kim..
thanks for responding to my email..

~~shelia

There hasn't been any music on the radio since the mid-70s anyway so what's the big deal.

heh

good point

Go Doug!

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bc

yo doug...
right on the money with that one! puts it all in perspective!
rock on,
r.

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http://cdbaby.com/all/chevyford

I understand that this can be a very emotive issue. And I do take on board the idea that people of a for or against persuasion with regard to this subject have the right to free speech. On the other hand, I do see a distinction between the viewpoint expressed by the Dixie chicks which I feel was an honestly held opinion and the line espoused by the radio stations whose sincerity I would have to question.

Freedom of expression is always a prickly subject but I have always felt that it is not truly free speech unless it is allied with thought and personal responsibility. It is my opinion that the radio stations have not exercised much thought or personal responsibility, not so much in the content of their opinions but in the visceral and intimidating manner in which they of attempted to put them across.

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Lighten up folks! The Chicks are not Jane Fonda! I spent a tour in Nam and turned down a part in a movie with her 10 years later. I was a hawk and hunted terrorists before it became in vogue. I became a dove when my boys became draft age and found forgiviness as John MCain and the other POW's did. The issue about the Chicks reminds me of my childhood and the Mac Carthy hearings and the black list of entertainers. As my favorite baseball player would say "It's de ja vue all over again." Unfortunatley history repeats itself. It is not news that the current White House residents will do anything possible to discredit any opposition and spin intelligence/news/stats to their favor. The only person you can trust in the current adminstration is John D. Negroponte. The rest do not have the huevos. The bottom line is remember the Our Father (The Lord's Prayer) "Forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive thoes that trespass against us." Think about it; we condem ourselves by condeming others.

Nuf said!


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Kahlil Gibran:
God created music as a common language for all men. It inspires the poets, the composers, and the architects. It lures us to search our souls for the meaning of the mysteries described in ancient books.

[This message has been edited by tadpolz (edited 07-15-2006).]

Interesting that this is still a topic of discussion long after the incident happened.
While I respect their propensity to exercise their rights of freedom of speech as a free American, I do take issue with their actions on the stage of a foreign land.

The closest parallel I can think of for a comparable incident happened with another musician nearly 50 years ago. This musician decided to flaunt his values, which were actually hardly being paid attention to here, across the water. Unfortunately for him, his foolish heart and instincts got him into trouble there and changed his career direction in a not so dis-similar fashion to what has happend to the once beloved Chuxie Ducks.

Anyone care to guess who I might be alluding to here?
His fall from grace was long and hard.

Point is, don't assume that your freedoms you so dearly treasure here can give you a free ride elsewhere.

I also tend to agree with the notion that as long as we have troops in harm's way, their mission and safety isn't helped any by offering up an outward opinion of dissidence on a foreign stage. Save that outward sharing of dissidence for within our own borders and give the audience that paid to see you what they initially paid to come see you do - entertain them with what you initially indicated you were going to do. MUSIC!

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JavaMusiK

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I just heard "Not ready to make nice" (3rd song on the Chick's new album) on Atlanta's STAR 94 at lunch time. STAR 94 is the popular pop station. Interesting to hear it there and not on the country station, but the song sounds more like Michelle Branch than the chicks anyway

Great song BTW!

First of all, I should say that I concur with Brian's eloquent response to the original post. It's absolutely fine to say whatever you please in a public forum; you just have to be prepared to accept the consequences of your speech. Whether it's a pat on the back or a scathing admonishment, it's all part of the deal. To expect immunity from consequences is the height of arrogance.
Secondly, I'd like to add that I was really enjoying this thread for a while. To witness people of differing opinions respectfully putting forth their views in an articulate manner warms my heart.
Unfortunately, it didn't take long for someone to spoil it by trotting out the old "This is the greatest country in the world' chestnut. Of what possible use to a debate is a propagandist phrase like that? Is there a "Greatest Country In The World" competition that I'm unaware of? Do they give out medals like in the Olympics? What is the criteria used? (It can't be the beer, otherwise Belgium would have won wouldn't they?)
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go and have a nice lie-down.

http://www.steverobinsonmusic.com/

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"The Empire's slipping away..."

[This message has been edited by Robinson (edited 07-21-2006).]