"I agree, there've been many atrocities done in the name of God...also in the name of Democracy, Socialism, Royal Families, National Pride, Cultural Pride, Racial Pride, Neighborhood Pride, School Pride, Family Pride, Personal Pride, Capitalism, Morality, Fairness, Decency, Safety and Security. Unless those things are also wrong, then blaming them, instead of blaming folks who would use them as an excuse to do bad things, is flawed logic. Come on people, it's personal responsibility, don't look outward for reasons why kids are immoral, they're immoral because we are."
-Mike Dunbar_

"Mike, you seem like a reasonable guy, but this argument is what's illogical. You're setting up religion (God) as something separate from Democracy, Socialism, Racial "Pride" Nationalism, etc.
As an agnostic, I'd have to point out that everything you listed is a form of tribalism -- everyone thinks their "tribe" is correct and therefore threatened by the other tribes. That's where the conflict comes from." -Joyboy



Joyboy,

My statement was not meant to set up God as separate from Democracy, etc., it was to show that God is no more the reason for atrocities than any of these other things I’ve mentioned (some of which are “tribal,” then there are safety and security, which are not “tribalism,” but concepts based on state of being and perception.) I see my statement as logical. When God, or Tribe, or Safety, or Comfort are used as excuses for atrocity, it is the perpetrator of the atrocity that is responsible, not God or the Tribe, or a concept or a location. Ronald Reagan said it wonderfully: “We must reject the idea that every time a law is broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker.” In my argument, beyond society, I’m including any excuse a group or individual wants to use so as not to accept responsibility for their own bad behavior. So, I’m not separating God or religion from Democracy, Darwinism, Liquor, Family History, Other People in general or any other group, tribe, idea, or object. It’s not that folks are thinking their “tribe” is correct, it’s that some folks will use “tribe,” as well as anything else they can rationalize as an excuse to behave badly.

As to why bad things happen to good people, I’d suggest that you ask Jesus for the answer. He’s the expert on that.



You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music