JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Microphone and Vocalist Forum Can anyone learn to sing?

I am a long time lurker but I now have a question.

I have never sung but have played the guitar for many years. My cowriter and I have always gotten a singer to do any live singing at a couple of festivals we attend. Recently we were scheduled at a venue and the singer was a no-show. Needless to say it was an embarassment to cancel. I decided then and there that I would learn to sing so I would have to rely solely on myself. Here is my question.

I was told when I was a teenager that I could not sing and I haven't sung since. I sing in the car when I am alone. I have the confidence to play guitar in front of any audience but the singing thing has me nervous. Is there hope for me to be able to sing, with confidence at 49? I have scheduled lessons with a vocal coach and that is making me nervous.

Any comments are welcomed.

Thanks

Kevin

There are only very few people who can't learn to sing...and it takes a professional voice instructor, vocal coach, or doctor applying tests to determine that...not some acquaintance or family member who knows nothing about it.

Sorry to say this, Kevin, but whoever told you this as a teenager, unless they were a professional, was either cruel or stupid or possibly both.

As a voice teacher, I've spent much more time working on shyness, inhibition, and residual damage from abusive comments than I've spent showing folks how to breathe or how to hit high notes.

Does this mean you'll be the next operatic sensation? Most likely not. Neither will I and I teach the darned stuff. But unless you have a serious hearing problem or a problem with your vocal apparatus, which is rare and unlikely (and which should be determined by medical tests only IF a good coach recommends it) then you can sing.

So go on off to that vocal coach without any fear, have fun, and try to forgive the person who did you wrong many years ago.

All the Best,
Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 11-21-2006).]

I agree with Mike - whoever told you that you can't sing did you a disservice. Even the "experts" can be wrong. The voice is an instrument like any other, and with time, good training, practice & determination, anyone - and I do mean anyone - can learn to sing.

My niche as a voice teacher is working with people who are tremendously shy, have been told they are tone-deaf, feel they can't carry a tune, or have some vocal damage (and have been advised by their doctors to have voice trainging), but still long to sing.

Over the years, I've found that, with the right approach, and practice, that every student can be helped to sing, no matter what their age or history... if they are willing to make the journey & do the work.

I myself was helped to sing by a teacher who recognized my terror and slowly & gently helped me through it. Thank God for him.

Hummin'bird
www.theshysinger.com

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Vikki Flawith, Canadian Singer/Songwriter & Voice Teacher
'Bird's 'Official Site'
'Bird's MySpace
ZaNy cRaZy 'Bird Blog

'Bird's fledgling *F*O*L*K* CD

The old joke goes, "Everyone can sing. The problem is finding someone to listen to you." The scary thing is there are a lot of professional singers who can't sing worth beans and make big bucks at it because they can get an audience (they are entertainers, not just singers).

I have so many friends who were told when they were young that they couldn't sing, went through life thinking they couldn't, yet when I talked them into singing along with me (at gunpoint?), they did fine. And I'm not a voice teacher! I've known very few people who really couldn't sing. Some were inhibited and just needed some encouragement, one friend had an occupational related hearing problem (corrected by having her sing with one finger in her ear), etc. I've known a large number of people who couldn't sing harmony or even the melody if someone was singing harmony alongside of them because they would follow whoever was singing alongside them. This problem has always frustrated me. The only thing I knew to do for them (remember, I'm not a voice teacher) was to put them alongside a strong singer and let them follow. Still, it was gratifying to see the joy they experienced by being able sing without being put down. I've known only person who was actually tone deaf; my son.

You've taken an important first step by engaging a voice coach (I wish I had the time and money to do so and I've sung professionally). Mike summed up what to expect very well. Have a ball and break a leg.


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Jeannie

I'm not a voice coach either, but I also agree with those who've commented so far.

I wasn't told I "couldn't" sing, but I've had to overcome criticism of my singing in my teens, which kept me from singing in anything other than choirs for a long long time. I always WANTED to, but was afraid I really didn't sound that good. I'd been told everything from "your voice slides" to "those high notes are really squeaky, you shouldn't do that--really."

I would still love to invest in formal lessons someday. But thanks to other good people placed in my life-- standing next to me in choirs and clearly more talented than me, who told me my voice was "beautiful," and encouraged me to go for the 1st soprano note because they could tell I could hit it-- thanks to those experiences, I gained enough confidence to sing out.

So don't believe what you'd been told by people who probably had no authority whatsoever to judge your singing. It's my opinion that there are few human beings who are utterly incapable of making SINGING noise with their vocal cords. Some--sure--don't sing on-key, or don't have the most technical skill, but it doesn't mean ya "can't sing" well enough to sing your songs in front of people.

Good luck with your voice lessons, and learn to accept whatever compliments come your way as true. Kick out the old voices in your head and let them go. Singing--even in the shower off-key--is good for the heart and soul, both healing and liberating.

Feel free to check my Soundclick site (listed below) and hear what I sound like now. Not perfect, I'll admit, but not TOO shabby!

Linda




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Linda Adams
Read about my novels:
http://www.alyssastory.com
Bits & pieces of music:
www.soundclick.com/lindaadams

Thanks everyone for the encouraging words.

Since I had to cancel my venue a couple weekends ago I went to listen to some high powered country writers. The round was short a performer so the venue asked another writer in the audience if he would like to fill the 4th slot and he did. This guy walked on stage with multi #1 hit writer, one of wich was Chris Wallin. THis guy did not bat an eye and it was a great show. His confidence is what impressed me the most and he was not a bad writer either.

I will get past my nerves. I sound like a little kid but the thought of singing in front of people has the same feeling as when I pulled the yoke back the first time and realized I was flying. It was scary as hell but it was also exciting and something I will never forget.

Again thanks for y'all's help and encouragement.

Kevin

John Lennon's Aunt Mimi told him he wouldn't make a living from it, (his guitar playing). Did he listen? If he had, we would not even be talking music together now. (Chain of events and all considered).

Screw being told you can't do something. Do YOU want to? Are you willing to sing? To get better? To learn as much as you can? For YOU?

Then get on with it. Lots of people have been told they can't sing, or do other things. Larry Bowa was told he couldn't play baseball good enough to make his high school team as a freshman! Look how hard work turned him into a gold glover like 10 times! World Series winner! Still a coach in the bigs!

If you have desire,,,,listen to THAT! If you don't, GET IT! Music is worth all the effort!
If you can't sing good enough for twenty people to like when you're 98, "then" find something else to do.

Grab your gonads and reach for those highs!

John Daubert

Dont listen to all the rubbish people tell you. everybody can sing although some can sing better than others. any singing talent can be enhanced by a vocal coach give it a try. It seems to me that your problem is shyness more than singing inability. Shyness can be overcome. Gradually with experience you will feel more confident and comfortable with your audience then the the shyness will vanish. Just to finish on a bum note however the best way to check out your vocal talents is to record yourself it need not be a pro recording play it back to yourself and judge whether you are up to the mark. Best of luck JIM (PRO SINGER)not bragging just underlining my advice.

Kevin,

It's all about just getting out there and doing it. Practice, practice, practice. WHen I was little my sister told me I was a bad singer. It only took 15 years for her to admit she told me this because she was jealous. Now, I'm pursuing a career in music, and I'm teaching voice lessons. Now, when I finally started taking lessons, I wasn't the greatest singer out there, it took a few years for my voice to develop into what it is today, and it still has a long way to go. So, I heartily suggest what everyone else has said, and to get a vocal coach. The sooner you begin working on it the better. Plus, I think the confidence to get up there and sing for people will come once you've had more practice using your voice. That first time you hit something you've never hit before, or get a good comment from someone will grab you by the ears and leave you wanting more. (c:

Yes, everyone can sing. Some shouldn't. Some are tone deaf and can't carry a tune no matter what. We had a drummer, years back, with a cleft pallet. He was doomed because he sang better than our lead singer. One hell of a drummer too. The best thing you can do for yourself, is to record yourself singing and listen to it. Most times we are our own worst ctitics. Then again, I knew a guy that sang terrible but thought he sounded pretty good. Is this enigmatic er whut??

That would be Dylan then! Who would have "sung" all those great songs though?

Let me make this perfectly clear. I shouldn't, won't and can't be the judge or jury on this topic. I concur with Mike Dunbar, it takes a trained professional to determine if one is clinically tone deaf. Also, that determination has no bearing on their ability to write or perform.
I may sound like a yak in heat, but to another yak in heat...

I believe anyone can learn to sing. They may not have as much natural singing talent as others or those who seem to pop out of the womb singing, but anyone with proper training and a lot of practice can be a very decent singer.

I think anyone can be a "good singer".

Great singers, however, thats kinda where that extra special something comes in.


[This message has been edited by VASINGER (edited 12-06-2006).]

Kevin! I really want you to hear my story: I am in a very similar situation to you, and I want you to know that after being told as a teenager I could not sing....after never really being told you could LEARN to sing (actually it is more learning to listen)....at age 47 I realized you can!

I was blessed with a kind artist who helped me out with some lessons, and I also found some courses (try Singorama) that helped me.

Today at age 49 I am about to put out my first CD. I still don't sing as well as I would like to, perhaps, but a LOT better than I used to...and tomorrow and the day after that I will be better still.

Forget all the people who simply hit middle C and said: Sing that note. Nobody should be expected to do that without training the ear first...unless they are one of the lucky ones who have internalized it already. But you CAN learn it, and you will be amazed at what your voice can do once you do, and then learn how to express it. PLEASE GO FOR IT!!!

As a professional vocalist in an Irish Country Duo, who didnt turn pro until I was 38 I firmly believe you either can or cant sing. Vocal coaches can hone what you have but they cant make a silk purse out of innate talent that isnt there. Quality, depth of feeling and interpretation cant be put into someone like putting a disc into a player - unless the ability is lying dormant and needs nurtured and developed. I am not a voice coach but I am a vocalist and proud of my craft and much as I would like to believe that everyone can be taugt to sing I just dont believe its possible. Patrick McCool.

www.putfile.com/loguemccool

[This message has been edited by Logue and McCool (edited 12-10-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Logue and McCool (edited 12-10-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Logue and McCool (edited 12-10-2006).]

Thanks for all the encouraging words. I had my first lesson tonight and I did pretty well. I can sing on pitch but my breathing and confidence needs a lot of work. McCool that is funny. A silk purse. Down here in Lower Alabama folks may not make silk purses but they sure can make some good, deep fried chili ears ; ) Thanks again y'all. Kevin

I too am a vocalist proud of my craft. I agree it takes skill & heart to intrepret music effectively, and be a good performer.

But I work on a daily basis with people who have been told they are tone deaf & cannot sing. I also work with folks who have damaged vocal chords & other issues. Yes, indeed, every single one of them can sing... if they have the patience to do the work, if they are supported, if I do my job right. For most of them, even singing with a choir seems like a daunting idea. But they do, over time, get more comfortable with singing. Most are not interested in being professional singers, but they'd like to have more confidence in their voice and their performance skills.

I have personal first-hand experience, yes, anyone can learn to sing, if they are willing to do the work. OTOH, I believe, that if someone walks into my studio with a yearning to sing... that they are there for a reason.... that they are inspired/moved to come & try because there is something there.

Hummin'bird
www.theshysinger.com

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Vikki Flawith, Canadian Singer/Songwriter & Voice Teacher
'Bird's 'Official Site'
'Bird's MySpace
ZaNy cRaZy 'Bird Blog

'Bird's fledgling *F*O*L*K* CD

[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited 12-12-2006).]

Howdy All!

One of the best voice teachers in the world comes from a small town in Northwestern Ohio. His name is James Estep.

I can quote him directly.

"You can teach anyone to act, but you can't teach them to sing."

This is the simple truth. You are born with a voice. That voice is what it is. If you have no ability to detect whether you are out of tune, God speed that you should give it up and don't waste your time and money trying to turn a pig's ear into silk.

It ain't gonna happen.

Those who can hear can improve, but are still stuck with the same vocal cords. Most people have very little talent as far as the arts are concerned. If they are smart, they realize this.

If they don't they probably end up on American Idol, crying.


Blessings,



Johnboy

To a certain extent, but...

Not everyone can agree on who can sing and who cant. Take James Blunt for example. A lot of people think he is a terrible singer. Others think hes the greatest thing since the turntable.

I dont know because its all subjective.

But the only difference I think in acting and singing is that its easier to tell if someone is off pitch or has bad phrasing. In bad acting, the differences that make it bad are more subtle.

I respectifully disagree with Mr James Estep. I have worked and am working with people who you would call tone-deaf and they are learning the skill of singing. I have worked with students who have damaged vocal chords and helped them discover more tone in their voice. I have worked with students with speaking voices so worn out they only rasped their words... and they have discovered & accessed good tonal quality.

Matching a pitch is a skill that can be learned.

Using the voice effectively so that it naturally & easily sings the pitch is a skill that can be learned.

In order to learn the skill of singing you need these ingredients: willingness to let go of ego; willingess to be less than perfect on the road to singing well; willinesness to be vunerable; willingness to grow your awareness, become aware of your thinking and how your thinking impacts your voice; willingness to practice and experience a new way of singing & establish a new relationship to your instrument; willingness to commit to the ongoing creative process of developing your instrument.

If the vocal chords are healthy, then ANYONE can learn to sing, if they are willing to do the work, and if they are willing to take the time... because it will take time - months - to reprogramme the habits that are causing the problem. But it can be done, and living proof is right here in my studio today.

Really we're talking about limitations.

You say tone deaf people can't learn to sing, they hear you, they believe that too... hence they are silenced.

But some of the most lovely voices I have ever heard are the ones that have been hidden away by the limitation of 'not being good enough' or 'not being capable'. With time, and new thinking, and support, you remove the limiation... and you are stunned by the beauty of the natural voice, freed from constraints.

Thanks, Vikki, for clarifying this.

Too many times, I hear people say that tone deaf people can't learn to sing.

I always enjoy reading your expert opinions on singing

Emily

Howdy Vasinger and Vicki!

I think we sort of agree on this.

First of all, Mr Estep was making a very valid point, perhaps a bit overboard, but a valid point indeed.

No one is going to develop their voice into a great singing voice if they are not gifted with that voice in the first place. Yes, you can teach someone to improve, and voice coaching is a rewarding career as you watch someone like whom you mentioned, becoming able to carry a tune and properly utilize breath support. Not that it matters, but I was a voice major at OSU, and I have been through the ringer.

Vick, you seem to be arguing about something I agree with. You are reading between the lines and missing the point.


Too many people think they have talent beyond that which they do. This doesn't mean that they should cower under negative criticism, and rise from the ashes. They should do what they want. This gives great pleasure to an instructor like yourself.

But again, that is not the point.

Actors can develop from lousy to good to great. Not all do, but they hold that potential within. It is a matter of either being born with the gift, or developing it from life experience, and being willing to work hard.

A voice is what it is. A purely physical embodiment of the vocal cords. You can work a mediocre singer into a good singer, a good singer into a better singer and so on, but they will not go on to win Grammies and an have an illustrious top 40 career.

Please watch American Idol. It is entertainment for some, but personally it breaks my heart, and I have to turn it off when I see people getting hurt. A highly publicized marketing event it is, but also, it serves well to get you to see that you are working with a majority of people who think they have talent and have only a little or none, and that those people will never develop into a great singer, good, maybe, but not Barbara Streisand, or Pavarotti.

A voice is a physical gift, and yes, how good it is, is subjective.

We are working on a board where many of the people possess a little bit of talent. But the big boys and girls don't come here for a reason. They want to avoid it because they would be overwhelmed if people knew who they were. So, here we sit all broken hearted, paid to poop, but only farted....

Some of our members have come here looking for help, and that is wonderful. I would encourage them to work on their singing voice, but I am not going to tell them to try out a career that they don't have a great chance at succeeding in.

Sometimes, there are diamonds in the rough. As a singer/songwriter, I have been told by artists that have had #1 hits on the national country charts that you sound like so and so, but you really need to come to Nashville to see how deep the talent is here. That hurt, and I wouldn't want to hurt anyone, but they told me the truth, and I have to respect that.

Even those artists are humbled on a daily basis. I believe those people, they are sincere. But I also know that I had to develop my writing craft in order to showcase the 4 out of 5 stars voice that I was born with. That is a good voice, not a great voice.

You have to make a living, so I don't expect you to say that everyone who was told they can't sing will suck forever.

I am happy for those who have the courage to work on something that they want to improve. I am such a person.

Defender of the meek and mild I am, but if you want an honest assessment of your talent, then get ready for the truth.

There are quite a few people who work the boards in order to make a living, and there is a bit of dishonest assessment given to those who are prospective customers.

That's great, because I am a sales manager, and I understand that we don't lie, we embellish, we augment, and so on. But most people just don't have the talent to succeed at the level I am referring to. And honestly, too many people are telling them that they do.


Blessings,


Johnboy