JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Radioplay, PRO, and copyright questions

Hi! It's great to be here.

A local radio station has let me know that they are interested in playing our music once we finish the mixing, mastering, etc, and get the CD printed... and I have a couple of questions regarding that.

But first a copyright question. My brother and I have for the most part co-written all our songs, and have not sent in the copyright paperwork in yet because I'm not sure exactly how to do it. Our "band" name is my name, and he thinks we should just have all the songs copyrighted in my name because of that. Is this right to do, or should we copyright them differently? I wrote all the lyrics, most of the melodies, and some of the music. He wrote the greater majority of the music, and added to the ones that I had written. I think we might just copyright the entire CD as a volume. Is this harmful to do, or is it just as good as registering each song? I read the posts in here on copyrighting, and I have to admit I am still confused. Which form should we use in our case...SR or PA?

Ok, about the PRO & possible royalties... If we don't have a publisher, and we haven't set up publishing with ASCAP, what happens to the publisher's half of the royalties? Do we need to set up our own publishing company? I'd much rather find an established publisher to handle our songs, but I understand that might take a while.

Also, my brother and I each need to apply to ASCAP as writers, right?

Sorry for all the questions! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!
Kristy

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http://www.soundclick.com/kristyeliason

I think I can start. Wait for others to give their thoughts before doing anything though.

I would submit the entire CD as one entry to the copyright office, on form SR, which will take care of both the (music/lyrics), and the (sound recording) of your CD. Make sure you follow the instructions to have both registered. One fee, and all songs can be listed in the "alternative title" box. Have your name as the main title, with both names listed as the writers/composers of both music and lyrics. Consider any royalties being split 50/50 on any song with you and your brother, no matter what % either of you contributed on that certain song. Standard practice and will make you both rich at the same time! Ha!

I would recommend you both now apply for publishers and writers with a PRO. I'm with Ascap. Get their forms and follow the instructions. You'll need to submit a proposed name for the publisher as they will then do a search to see if that name is taken. Have three names ready to submit, (1st, 2nd, and 3rd choices). Any name can be your publishing company...as weird or relative or simple/obvious as you want. Again, list you and your brother as the writers/publishers.

John Daubert

Just a comment re the publishing name above -- it's my understanding that you'll need a bank account which will accept the royalty checks/payments to that publishing name.

H

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Vikki Flawith, Canadian Singer/Songwriter & Voice Teacher

This bird sings at:
http://www.soundclick.com/vikkiflawith
www.vikkiflawith.com

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The Shy Singer-Songwriter's Blog
The Shy Singer-Songwriter's Newsletter

I agree with what John said.I don't think you have to start up a publishing though.You will just get 100% of all airplay royalties instead of splitting it with a publishing company,which you will own if you form one. I formed one,so I get 50% writers share and the other 50% goes to my publishing company. The advantage of owning a publishing company is you can publish other peoples songs if you want to.Not the reason I formed it but I have published several songs for other people.

Thank you so much for all of your comments and advice! I really don't want to start a publishing company if we don't need to, because of the paperwork and business end of it, but is it beneficial for tax purposes to set up a publishing company? Like can I write off anything if I don't? Another thing, if we don't set up publishing, and we sell CD's in some local stores here, the income falls under my name and I am the one that will show that income under my household, pay the taxes, etc.

Sheesh, maybe I am looking too far ahead into this. Gotta get our CD done first!

Thanks you all!
Kristy

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http://www.soundclick.com/kristyeliason

Hi, Kristy,

I don't know how ASCAP works, but if you join BMI as a writer, you do not need to have a separate publishing company. If you own the publishing on your own songs, you just say "no publisher" when you register the songs with BMI, and they then pay you directly the publisher's share of royalties.

--- Ed


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http://www.edperrone.com/music/

Hi Kristy,

Congratuations with the radio station, that's excellent!

I work for a production house so maybe I can help too.

Copyright Form PA is what protects the underlying body of your work, meaning the actual words and music itself. As a $$ short cut, people file the SR form thinking it will provide the maximum amount of protection for their words and music. It doesn't, unless you're filing as a publisher. The SR Form ( Sound Recording) covers just that- the actual sound textures layered into (the production of) your song, not the composition itself. The SR form is what record labels and publishers file when they are laying claim to an already produced album (or one they produce themselves, it really depends on the deal). If you decided to self-publish , which isn't completely necessary but has its bennies if you're pushing radio, then you would title the album (just like a release) on form SR, listing the publisher's name as owner of the work.

To start, I would suggest filing with form PA. If you decide to self publish, you can always go back and file SR later.

I wouldn't suggest registering the copyright under your name for convenience. Copyrights are considered personal assets that we pass down through inheritance and your brother will be inconvenienced with paperwork if ownership ever became an issue. By the sounds of it, you would be listed as both an author of lyrics and music, and your brother sharing authorship rights to the music.

I would title the PA "A collection of songs written by (you and your brother) ".

When you look the form PA, you'll notice there's only room for 3 songs/authors on there. If you have more than 3 songs, download copyright form CON (Continuation Sheet) from the www.copyright.gov site. When you open it, you'll see a "Space A". In space A, you're going to write the title from the PA form, and fill in your address. Then, skip down to Space C and check off Space 1- this form is now considered a Continuation of the Title on your PA Form. You'll notice Space C on the CON sheet is blank. Here, you will write out each song title (one under the other, typed is best) and list the author credits.

There's no place for a signature on a CON sheet. Just don't forget to put your address in the box at the bottom.

Mail both the PA and CON form (if you needed it) Certified return receipt request to the library of congress. Make sure you both sign and date it!

You're going to mail the app's, a copy of the songs you want to protect (recording quality is not an issue with PA) and a check for $30, payable to the Register of Copyrights. Expect to wait about 9 months before you actually receive the approved registration back. It shouldn't take too long before you get that little green return receipt back, but I have seen it take up to a few months. Imagine how much mail they must open every day?!!

You should both definately join a PRO as writers. Call both ASCAP and BMI and ask them why you should join their organization.

To answer the tax question, it's always best to file a DBA with the town, especialy if you're going to sell product. Uncle Sam loves to play hard ball! lol...

Hope it helps.

Kim McDonough
Business Relations Director / Consultant
www.mdi-productions.com
Co-Coordinator, SEMA JPF

[This message has been edited by Kim McDonough (edited 02-15-2006).]

Thanks Ed & Kim for your replies!

Sorry I haven't checked back on this thread for a while...wish I would have! I ended up sending in a form SR in my name Jan. 29th. I still haven't received the green receipt back and was starting to get worried, thanks for clearing that up, Kim.

Thanks for your wealth of knowledge on this! We did decide to self-publish, and we have the company set up. Our CD should be pressed and ready by April 1st. May I ask a couple more questions about this?

Should we wait to refile the copyright in our publishing name until after it's done so we can send the pressed cd in? How will it work with the current copyright I sent in but has not been processed yet?

Thank you so much for your help!

Kristy



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http://www.soundclick.com/kristyeliason

If you already registered your songs once, it is not necessary to register again for protection of your songs.If you just want to register the CD itself to protect it,you can do so on a SR form.

ECA333 is right- you've already protected the songs themselves when you filed a PA form.

I would suggest that once you receive your publishing compay name and number, file a SR form using the publishing company's name as owner.

It doesn't matter that you probably won't receive the first form PA back before you're ready to file the SR-- the SR is a totally seperate application filed on behalf of your publishing company...

Don't forget to register your song titles in your PRO's song title registration system. This is how they determine what your publishing and writing royalty splits are. When you are ready to register your titles, log into the system under your publishing company's name. You'll still be allowed to enter in the song writer share of royalties from the publisher side, so no worries there.

When the registration asks what your assigned copyright # is, fill in "Pending" from the drop down menu. You can always go back later and enter the actual copyright number.

Best of luck to you!

Kim

Ok Thanks so much for the help!! I really appreciate it.

Kristy

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http://www.soundclick.com/kristyeliason

Hi, Kristy,

I read this thread with interest, as there always seem to be more copyright questions popping up (and I have a good share of 'em myself)!

If you are your own publishing company, you can register a DBA (Doing Business As) form at your parish courthouse. Then, you can always open a "fee free" checking account in the name of the publishing company - the DBA certificate enables you to do that. (Happily, more banks are offering "free business checking" these days.) There's no separate corporate registration, and you can do it as a sole proprietorship or as a simple partnership with you and your brother.

As for the tax questions -- I'm not a CPA, but.... Keep track of all expenses related to the CD production - these are legit business expenses. And of course, keep track of all sales and profits.

If you have unsold CDs at the end of the year, they will be an asset (inventory). You won't show a profit on them until they are sold. Again, keep track of your expenses, including mileage. Driving to the Post Office, to the Courthouse, to the studio, to practice, to your brother's house to discuss this project - all of that is deductible, and right now it's either 36 or 41 cents a mile deduction, so KEEP TRACK OF IT! It really, really is worth it - from a tax point of view as well as a "good management" point of view. As long as it is a legitimate deduction, you are only hurting yourself (and your music) if you don't take advantage of it.

Good luck! How's the CD coming along?

Brenda

www.BlueMerlot.com
www.BandBontheRock.com

Hi Brenda!

Thanks for the reply. I just posted to your duplication thread about our CDs. They look and sound great! Got them last Wednesday. I immediately sent one to the radio station that had expressed interest, and they played our first single, I'm Still Here on Friday for the first time. It was really exciting! Happened to be my 30th birthday, so it took the sting out of leaving my 20's behind! It has gotten a few more spins there in the past few days. Pretty fun, this is a first for me.

Anyway, we did set up the fictious name statement at the courthouse and set up a business checking account. We started our own indie label while we were at it, LOL. So we are currently running most of the business through that entity. We haven't done much with the publishing entity we set up yet, I guess we'll see if any performance royalties start coming in from ASCAP.

I haven't talked to a music lawyer yet, but I probably should. I have two separate TIN's for these companies and wondering if I can set up an LLC that incorporates both of them, or if they would have to be separate. Not ready to do it yet, but we'll need to do it sometime so thinking about it now.

I wish I had more time to work on promotion, marketing & distribution, as well as writing and practicing. If only I could quit my day job! I have a newfound respect for successful independent artists. It's difficult to juggle everything, isn't it?

Good luck to you,

Kristy

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www.redunsaid.com

Oh, and thanks for the tax advice! I'm keeping track of everything...except mileage. I hadn't thought of that! I will definitely do that now.

Thanks!

Kristy

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www.redunsaid.com