JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Song Writers Guild Of America, What do you know about them?

This is the first time I've read through this post. I do find it "annoying" that people harvest emails from sites like this and spam them. As said above, it is not illegal. However, THIS part goes beyond "annoying":



I believe that sending mail (including email) under an identity other than one's own legal name or registered pseudonym IS illegal -- both under identity theft laws and fraud laws. The former TONOS site used to do this -- have letters that were sent as if by Carol Bayer Sager that later turned out to have been sent by staff marketers.

This is a serious offense, both "in my book" and legally. In "real life", if someone signs another person's name to a letter (let's say a secretary), it MUST have the actual signer's initials to show that it is a signature by proxy. There are also ghost writers, but they write with the full knowledge of the undersigned who is supposed to read the entire text and then essentially "adopt it as his/her own", accepting full responsibility.

In the case of this SGA spam, another person ("Rundi") has already admitted to having sent the email, as if from "Rick". The identity theft issue is moot, since Rick probably won't press charges and no one else can. HOWEVER, on the receiving end, I do believe this falls under a full-out fraud claim. People (regardless of the number of people) were made to believe that an "important figure" personally contacted them or caused them to be contacted. This would influence their potential "purchase" of services at the SGA site. Any falsity used to influence receipt of money for goods or services is "fraud".

I didn't get the email, so I can't personally do anything about it. But if any of you are mad enough, it'd be interesting to see what an official lawyer says, and if you got a response from Rick after slapping a law suit on the SGA.

This is one of those things that people think they can get away with because it's "small" and most people won't bother pressing, like clubs that have "no cover for the ladies" nights (which is full-out sexual discrimination and entirely illegal), or the fact that gas station companies hold $50 of your money for three full days (against which you CAN and WILL bounce checks) every time you use your debit card at the pump.

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if "the little guy" started calling "the big guy" to account.

Baz/Erik
www.eriktyler.com



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"The only way to get anywhere is to cross a few lines."

[This message has been edited by TheBaz (edited 09-03-2004).]

Erik,

Just to clarify, it's our understanding that it was Rick's stepson and not Rundi who sent the email. His name is listed earlier in this post.

I have no idea that laws are affected and personally I am not concerned with that. It's a moral and integrity thing more than a legal issue to me. I doubt there is any legal violation and I am sure that any authority could totally care less. My concern is that Rick has clearly refused to deal with this issue, and multiple parties have told me that he's aware of it all. We know his step son has been trolling our site which is how he lifted the email addresses to start with.

On top of all of this, I've also received several emails about how bad the website actually is that was promoted in the spam in the first place.

I have a feeling this isn't going away and if the emails I am getting from SGA members and present and former staff members are any indication, it will likely get worse.

I do want to emphasize again that there are many great people involved with the SGA and that it's a long standing respectable organization. Why they've chosen to take this recent turn is beyond me. I hope their board members are aware and perhaps they need to get more involved in what is going on.

In the meantime, the actions by Rick's stepson have wasted a lot of my time dealing with the emails and this post. We all have more important things to do. They really need to STOP SPAMMING us and spend their time improving their site.

Brian

Looks like they spammed the taxi boards too.

Jimi,

That's no surprise. I really think there's going to be a backlash against the Songwriters Guild. Rumor has it that the LA Songwriters Guild Offices are in for some major changes and I've always seen those folks as their strongest. Sad to piss away 70+ years of good work like this.

Brian

Well, just in case anyone "that matters" from SGA is being alerted to and actually reading this and similar posts, maybe they should take the leeched list that was spammed and send around an apology to the very same people.

Baz/Erik
www.eriktyler.com

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"The only way to get anywhere is to cross a few lines."

[This message has been edited by TheBaz (edited 09-05-2004).]

i got it too. and just deleted it. but still it's nice to feel wanted..

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www.barkinbarneyandthetallboys.com

Hello to all and greetings,
I have not visited JPF for a couple of years (no one's fault but my own) and I received the Writers Guild spam last week. I came back to visit JPF after finally getting a new computer. These kind of sites were useless on my old one. I could type letters and send email and that was about it.

Coincidentally, I joined soundclick just after my first return visit here. Maybe that's where the Guild is picking up some of these emails??? I had a song break into the top 100 on their main accoustic chart a couple of weeks ago and assumed that is what caused their spam. The song has since fallen like a rock, so perhaps, they try to hook you while your ego is still soaring.

Sadly what I don't get is what they hope to gain by this, seeing the reaction of the board overall, and those who have received it.

if anything it's just turning peoples noses against them, practising what only low businesses on the net do.

It's only hurting their business IMO.

not a smart move.

Smile.

Ironically, I was just about to join them. Now I may not. I'm not as concerned about the spamming, but that they have not responded to our JPFolks concerns.

This makes me question the quality of the organization.

--C.C.

I've gotten a bunch of emails asking if the Songwriters Guild ever responded. The answer is no. Last week I got a call from the head of the LA Chapter of the Songwriters Guild, but he has since resigned after 20 years of leading their Los Angeles office. The guy who was running their NYC office was apparently let go previously, so there's clearly a lot of turmoil.

I've spoken with several people associated with the Guild or who know folks that are today who all are showing great concern for what's happening. I also got several more confirmations that people involved with the Guild have been reading this post. So once again I will ask the obvious question:

SGA: Why are you spamming people and why are you dodging answering these concerns?

This issue isn't going away. In the midst of the spamming issue, many other serious issues allegations have come up. I have no first hand knowledge either way, but as I have said before the evidence and negative statements continue to pile up on one side and Rick and his staff (other than the West Coast Offices) have refused commentary or reply.

That's what I know at this point. In the meantime, I have heard from another company that said their message board members were also spammed by Rick's step-son using Rick's name.

We'll update you if any more info becomes available.

Brian

Someone may have mentioned this already.
Why didn't they just post their offer on the
promo forum ? A lot less work and non offensive.
Or they could have asked to be added to the links list.

[This message has been edited by TonyW (edited 09-09-2004).]

I received their email as well. It was not appreciated. Just figured I'd chime in, and Brian thank you for taking this concern seriously. It's obvious that some would have just blown it off. Thanks!

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http://www.geocities.com/veryvince/

Here's our site policy concerning email harvesting. Obviously, they don't care if they are exposed.

"Please note that advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate on this BB. Harvesting email addresses for unsolicited promotional use of any kind is not permitted and violators will be exposed for their actions and may be banned from the site. Spamming is SLEAZY. Scam artists steal addresses and spam people. Don't do it!"