JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Musician Message Forum Song pitching

Hi,Guys.

Anybody heard about the song pitching site http://www.blazetrak.com ? Does it work? I'd like to hear from anyone who has used it and had their song recorded, by any of those top artists, listed

Raymond

Raymond,

It's doubtful you will hear from many people, because there just aren't many stories to tell from these pitch services. I don't think they are rip offs, just fairly uneffective. This is a very inside business and pretty much all the pitch services are pretty far down the line when it comes to actually getting songs heard and even farther when it comes to getting songs cut.

MAB

I looked into their submission opportunities.. up to 125$ just to SUBMIT a song!!!!!!

This is outrageous fees, and I hope the industry won't move further in this direction..

Magne,

This is EXACTLY where the industry is going and has been for some time. I have talked about it often on these and other threads. All the pitch services are basically the exact same thing. They are song pluggers. That is a fee for service. That is because so much of the "back end money" that was once in publishing is gone. So they are trying to collect it up front.

That comes from so much music being free, which is driven by artists giving music away in order to bring people to their live shows and add to the fan base. It has been an effect we have been seeing for about 10 years and continues more and more.

The key is "access" and most of the pitch services cant'get that because they are fee for services and don't have the friendship in the relationships it takes. Most of them are "mailing in" songs also. Kind of a middle man for a middle man, for a middle man.

If I were talking to these people I would ask who they know personally, what their process is, how they are presenting songs to the industry. Then I would check out people that work with them much like Raymond is doing here.

The bottom line is it is just very difficult to get through the gatekeepers and then the gauntlet of getting past the artists themselves.

So that is the way the business is. Has been for a while.

MAB

If others let themselves be 'inspired' by THESE fees, then I can SAVE money from travelling across the globe to Nashville twice a year!

I can agree to a yearly fee in the neighbourhood of Taxi, and there I can submit three songs to a listing for 15$. Ok, running costs I can accept for a legit and well provided service.

I'll even accept to do that with 2-3 companies if they don't overlap. Doing a bunch of stuff for music libraries, I think services like Taxi is worth it.

But three songs for a 125$ listing????? That's more than a pro demo with the Nashville a-team!

I don't even think Urban artists take outside songs (what would their fans say to that?). If this is not a rip off, I've never seen one!

Basically Im on the publishers' side - I wan't them to be successful, just like myself, and this means I would support their business up to a point, but I would personally watch out for this company, as these fee's are unheard of!

Bill's comment applies in this situation and in many situations involving Music City song oriented businesses.

Even if the song is exceptionally great, you're it sort of like a minnow trying to get famous for being the greatest of the minnows in the pacific ocean.

I just read Bad New Rising, the biography of Creedence Clearwater Revival. They were so good but so short lived. Then John Fogerty went insane or something with a vendetta against Fantasy Records, who in John's opinion had the music in a legal straitjacket.

You should read the court story of how John got sued for sounding too much like himself. Very interesting legal cases.
Performing Songwriter Magazine (before it went broke) had a great encapsulation of the ten major song lawsuits in history.

MAB

Marc, Magne, Bill, I appreciate all your views. Most insightful!

If these "pitching" services are so good why don't they just take a payment after they succesfully place a song?
I work with booking agents who only get commission from the work they generate for me and they do not get a penny till after I get paid.
It would be interesting to know from the pitching companies just what percentage of songs they receive are actually pitched hoe many get a cut and how much money exactly is made by the lucky songwriter.
So far I have never heard from anybody who has made money from a song produced by a demo company or a song placed by a pitching or song placement company. BUT I have heard numerous complaints from people who have felt they have been ripped off by such outfits. That should tell a story.
It seems to me that a whole new multi million dollar industry has been formed by ripping off delusional people who think they have written the next big hit.

Hey Raymond,

Just email me your song, and post me a case of beer, and I'll send you back a video crtique. Much easier, and much more interesting, as I'll drink the case of beer first, then do the review.

cheers, niteshift

Almost all of my songs get pitched eventually...


into the wastebin

Jim,

As far as demo companies, most studios are demo companies.It is just the level of the demos they are working for.

A few years ago I was in Washington DC with Micheal Lascow of Taxi, the president of that company. I asked him "I don't know what I should tell these people when they ask about you. I have never used you and have my own contacts, what would should I tell them?"
He said: "We are based in LA so we do better in the film and television industry. Nashville is very cliquish. But it is totally incumbant on the songs and the quality of demos we get."

The real deal is that people who do this for a living or are very serious, make inroads, write inside the circles you have to be in, don't need these pitch services. They have their own contacts. They write with up and coming artists to get on ground floors. They write inside the publishing companies and work their way up one song at a time.

So that means that the songs are going to come from people who don't understand the complexities of the business, don't really understand the market or level of demos, because they are far removed from it. None of this is a "Mail it in business." So the songs are overall going to be very weak. You hear that with almost everyone who works with Taxi, are that they never get "forwards." That should tell you something.

I hear stories of placements, film or TV stuff, and I don't have a reason to doubt it, but I know how inside that business is as well as our business in Nashville. The song placement agencies are going to be WAY down the list of people that can have songs heard.

A cottage industry has opened up like Jim has said, of former publishers, former song pluggers, former people who were once in the business, making claims that they can do this and that. They do make pitches. They do send out songs. But to my knowledge very few have any real success.

The thing I have always liked about the TAXI idea is that it instills a sense of purpose and discipline in writng songs. If you want to get activity, you have to supply songs, you have to supply decent demos. If that makes you write more songs, do more song study, get better, that makes sense to me. Most of the people I have met that have worked with those type companies, at least have more product and have some knowledge.

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

Reading all of what Marc wrote, make me so glad that I do this for the love of it. I would get a sick headache and a small wallet if I looked at it as a career. Even if the songs were top shelf which they are not. I have had people record some of my music. But in the folk world if you want to make a million dollars start out with two million dollars. :-)

The odds sound as good as hitting the lottery which is the same as getting nailed by lightning two times in a row.

Thanks Marc for telling it like it is ...

I should add that I now have a huge fan base in the folk community. All 12 of the people who still like folk music follow my soundclick postings LOL. I think I hit the bigtime, cause I got all of em I did

Hey Dan,

You're doing better than me. I got 4 followers, one is a co-writer, one the "Soundclick Crew" and 2 unknowns. Heck ! , that means I've got 2 real fans. Magic !

cheers, niteshift

Dan,

It is not just folk. It is all kinds of music. Everyone does this now. Everyone has home recording equipment, Garage band, computer programs. We are trying to sell buckets of sand to people in the middle of the desert. Everybody has their own sand. But there are different grades of sand. Different colors.Different textures.
People need sand. It is used to make concrete, other products that use sand as a base. Medical, construction, etc. there are a lot of uses for it. You just have to have the right kind of sand, get it to the people who use it. That is a one on one relationship.

You laugh about the 12 people in your fan base. But that is 12 people that you didn't have before you started giving them something they didn't have before. Do that well and those 4, 5, 12 people, tell two friends each, who tell two friends, this is what the music business is. Do it 100,000 times and you have Taylor Swift and Justin Beiber.

All music is pretty much the same. We are just trying to get people to listen to what we do, buy into it emotionally and if we do it well, financially. One fan at a time. Demonstrate you have something everybody wants and you have a career.

Brian, the owner of this site has a great saying. Get 5000 people to buy one copy of your CD, you have a career. Record deals and publishing deals are just one way to do that. Consistant networking are one of the others.

But yes, you are more likely to get struck by lightning than to have a cut.
You are more likely to be struck by lightning in a submarine underwater than having a hit.

Approach it as a hobby, but treat it like a second job. Be the best you can and touch lives. That is all you can do.

MAB

It is nice to have a goal and nice to have a dream......on the negative side I know people who were household names and had no1 hit records.......they regret every minute of it. Some even refuse to talk about it. You have to know what you are getting into. How many stars are driven mad, die of drink or drugs have numerous breakdowns and broken relationships? Ask why.
To get success in this business is like winning the lottery....but you have to buy a ticket first.....even buying millions of tickets guarantees nothing. Even some lottery winners have regretted winning it. They lost friends and relationships broke down.
I am a pretty down to earth bloke but doubt I could handle the kind of pressure that goes with the territory of being a big star.

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! I shoulda stayed in makin' Buggy Whips. There's a lot more money in it.

Well there is one thing I do know Big Jim, if there ever was star in my books it is YOU ... my gosh bro you can cook ... and I am glad you are not a big superstar cause then I would not have got to know you ...and call you my friend

Hey Nite
well I am a fan of yours so you now got 3!!

Hey Marc
beautifully said thank you

Dan

Hey thanks Dan, I need it !

Straight up, my band at the time did an away gig, and I have LITERALLY played to an old women and a dog (hers).... in a bar.

But, we made her night.

The band were dissapointed. The manager just said " Well, you're still getting paid, aren't you ? " ( and good money too )

You take the ups with the downs.

I do laugh at Soundclick. Perhaps if I were more "professional" I wouldn't use it. But hey, it's cheap, free and accessable... a bit like me really..... huh ?

cheers, niteshift

LOL, hey nite, a lady came up to me after my last concert in the park series here in town. She said, I love the music, I have listened to this type of music for all of my 82 years now.

LOL, no one can ever accuse me of being a new age modern performer ... or on top of the hottest new sound ... LOL

Hi, Jim.
Would your booking agents pitch songs, too, or they only work with artists? My songs are mainly Pop and R&B/Soul ballads. A have a few jazz vocals and a Gospel song, too. Visit me, at http://ubetoo.com/raesoulman
Raymond

Raymond,

You find that the music business is a very compartmentalized business. Booking agents generally just book acts or artists into live gigs. Managers and agents take a percentage of the artists earning. Publishers are the ones who pitch songs and use song pluggers usually to do that. Songwriters usually work with a publisher and many times have their own song pluggers as well.

It is kind of like everything that is done has it's own set of rules, protocals and politics. Usually when you are involved in one, you don't have a lot of time for the other ones.

MAB

I remember in 1985 Fogerty got sued for plagerizing HIMSELF, and Neil Young got sued by HIS record co. for not sounding like Neil Young!What a whacked out biz we're in!

If You Know Your Songs Are Great and I mean Great,

Release the song On Your own Label, but the chances are your songs are not great, You have lived with them and yours and your friends judgement is quite likely flawed, Also it's likely No one is recording your kind of material, it's probably dated.

I have never never heard an amateur song on Sound Click that even comes close to what todays acts are looking for.

No one listens to Compilation C.D.s by unknown writers No one,
so dont go down that avenue, the only chance you have is a personal contact, with someone in the game who wants outside material, and that likleyhood is very very minut.

Hi Cheyenne I agree with most of what you say. With regards to Soundclick and other sites where "amateurs" post music I have heard some wonderful songs there that IMO are far better than most of the top twenty crap we hear on the radio. I sometimes wonder what would happen if the roles were reversed and the so called stars posted on Soundlcik and the amateurs were given the hype and exposure awarded to the stars. I bet the Soundclick stuff would be classed as amateurish rubbish and the pop charts would be full of great songs.
Just to clear up on a point raised earlier Marc answered the question perfectly. Booking agents, mine included, are only interested in booking live acts for live gigs. The will not even listen to original music and have no clout in getting it cut or recorded.

Also I think Soundclick is best served for it's main purpose
A nice place to host your songs and videos and for the most part it's free and EASY.

Basically when it comes to the internet what are you going to do?..

1- Use Cd Baby... Okay anyone can do that.
2- Songs on My Space or Facebook - again anyone
3- Your Website - well the biggest acts in the world have a website and so can you, the only difference,nobody is looking for yours
4- Any other site? Doesn't matter..

Unless it's one where you don't have access to, ya know say only places where major label acts can. Billboard, Rolling Stone MTV etc...

The screenwriting industry has the same thing - pay to pitch. From everything I've learned, they just don't have any value. My 2 cents.
Mike

The myth that amateur songs are better than whats on the radio, is exactly the myth that fuels these enterprises. These things emerge because more and more vanity writers come running with loads of crap songs. The ego has always been expensive in running costs!

I still count on the ole Fred Koller book on pitching, if your song is worth a dime, people will want it, because money to you means even more money to them. Just common sense will tell you, that's how any business works. Make'm look good, and even better, make'm rich

The premise for these services is bad songs. They want money because they know your song won't make it, due to too few outlets in the current markets (at least for artist pitches). If I was in the music business, I would even be careful taking songs from these services, because they hear so much crap it must distort their ears

I've said it before and will say it again it is not the quality of the songs you write it is the quality of the people in the know who you know.

Somehow it seems it's about song quality for us new guys, and quality of people for the regulars.. :-)

Hey Raymond,

As Marc points out, this is basically paying to offer your wares to a middleman.

Regardless of the price (and that does look pretty steep), I think that you should be wary of using sites and services like these unless you make stuff like instrumental hip hop or electronic music. From what I've heard, the only people I know who have had success using things like this (or MusikPitch, or SPONY) are producers who work in those fields.

Almost anything with vocals rarely gets picked up.