JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum co-writer contracts

This is kind of an after affect, but I am currently in a co-writing verbal agrreement with another writer, is there a place for us to get some type of standard contract defining how we split royalties, pay for recording, expenses, marketing??? stuff like that.
I would appreciate any suggestions.
sharla

A contract consists of an 'offer' and an 'acceptance.'

The co-writers can write up a contract comprised of what each wants to offer, to commit to, and what they want the other to commit to, and negotiate what they want to accept.

Royalties are generally 50%/50%. But that can be negotiated too if you feel one of you deserves a bigger share because of a bigger contribution. You can see how this could lead to problems as one person places a higher value on something than the other does. One may only contribute a word or a line but feel that contribution was the strategic element in making the song rise up to hit-potential, and therefore is equal in value to the whole rest of the song.

Agreeing to commit to recording costs, marketing, etc., may be something you want to do song by song, rather than as a blanket agreement for anything and everything you write. Again, one partner may feel a song is ready and worth investment, while the other doesn't.

You are forming a 'partnership,' a type of company. Companies are given life by force of law, becoming 'corpora ficta,' artificial 'beings.' The 'living being' can have a changing state of health, and can even 'die.' Inherent in the partnership is a potential adversarial relationship. That's why a contract can be beneficial in establishing what the partners specify as their commitment, so neither is surprised later.

Again, if you're hoping for a long-term partnership, the 50/50 royalties and cost-sharing seems most likely to make each partner feel their reward is equal to their commitment.

Having said all that, you may want to google 'music contracts' and see what comes up. I've seen a site with that in the title somewhere, but I don't remember it exactly, and failed to bookmark it.

Thank you Gary for all the great imput!

HiYa Mz Sharla!

Yeah, 50-50, "No Outside Writers without BOTH Writer's Permission/And helps to agree to Contact Each Other ANNUALLY" because it often takes YEARS to get one Cut/IF you can't get in-touch with The Other Person it can get BAD, in NOT getting their Permission on something or other. (BUT ya can word it in that One CAN sign for The Other IF that Annual Contact's NOT Made...freeing you to GET that Cut when Opportunity Knocks.)

Having said All That, I'll confess to mostly HANDSHAKES over the Net or Phone on about 75% of alla my Co's! (Wish the Dude who Co-Wrote "Don't Shower Alone" WOULD Re-Contact Me..SOON!)

Best Wishes/Good Luck Gal(s)!
Stan

thanks Stan,
yes hand shakes are great, but don't hold up in court.
good luck with " don't shower alone" I hope you get what is due to you.
sharla

HI Again!

NADA's due..since I DON'T Pitch It sans the Other Guy's OK/I've got a Cassette Demo here...Good Song/NO Name on it/I got a Rotten Memory..correspondence is mis-filed...& there it SITS.

(Don't let This happen to YOU...heh!)

"You Lose..You LEARN"....(What a Great Line, Eh?) ;-)>
Best Wishes & 'Nother Hug,
Stan

Any Attorney will tell you that "standard form" contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on. You need to tailor your agreement for the situation, and you need to be sure you understand it and have discussed all of the potential ramifications so that there isn't a problem in the future. The Court dockets are full of cases in which people signed agreements and then later tried to claim that there wasn't a "meeting of the minds" because they didn't have lawyers involved and didn't understand what they were signing (which is not always a defense to enforcement). A few dollars spent on legal counsel now will eliminate a much larger legal bill in the future (and both signatories need to have separate counsel, you can't have one lawyer represent two people with potentially divergent interests).

Sharla,

To tell you the truth, there is not much of anything that will hold up in court. The cost of taking someone to court over some song issue, around $15,000-$25,000 keeps most things from ever getting close. Considering so few songs ever gross dime one, it never makes a lot of sense to bog down in legaleze.

The reality is that in order to get to the area of making money, the major publishers, artist's that record songs and then sell their own product, it takes much more than any aggreement or dissagreement between writers. Songs are routinely dropped if there is some kind of conflict on the song.

The biggest reasons for any kind of legal action is one party trying to prove another one is keeping them from making any money from their work. Another thing that is pretty hard to prove. Any issues that take a court to be resolved usually only make money for lawyers.

My suggestion is that if you have questions or personal problems with a co-writer, simply get the song finished wherever it needs to go and place in your "Was a good idea at the time" file and on to the back burner section. It is never worth obsessing over anything and only shows that your co-writer doesn't understand enough about the difficulty and challenges of the music industry to really be effective in dealing with that industry.

I personally would move on. See how you feel about this after writing a dozen more songs.

MAB

Contract? LMAO

P.S. Still LMAO

You can write up your own contract. Just discuss everything up front and then put what you agree to on paper, have it noterized and you have it.

It is recommended that all writer's in an agreement be equal partners. All expenses will be shared equally and royalities shared equally. It doesn't have to be complicated but through. In case something makes it big an Oz of prevention is worth a Pound of cure.

I am reminded of what one the first hit writers I ever worked with told me. "If it takes a piece of paper to be able to deal with someone, I'd just as soon not do anything."

The only contracts I have ever signed were on songs that were about to be released commercially or signing a deal for several songs with a publisher. Don't think I have ever done anything with a writer, it's just understood.

I do remember a guy that sat down and wanted me to sign something before we started writing. I didn't do it and that took care of it immediately. He was someone that had bugged me for weeks, a nobody who really didn't have any songs at all.When he pulled that out I just laughed until I found out he was serious. I explained I don't do that sort of thing and he left.

The less someone has achieved it seems the more they need to have some kind of assurances on paper or otherwise. The people who do this for real, don't ever even think in those terms.

There is a time for it when you have something about to be released commerically but up until then, I think it shows fundamental non-understanding of the business.

MAB

Just to explain why I'm still LMAO. I have been in the music business for over forty years and only ever signed one contract. I wish I had never signed as it cost me loads in time effort and lost income...but that is another story.
Once a booking agent asked our band to sign a contract. We were told that if we did not sign then we would not get any work from him. We told him (ever so politely LOL) what he could do with his contract and that we would get our own gigs in future. After about a week he was on the phone pleading with us to work without a contract. Seems word got around and no bands would sign the contract to work for him. Shortly after that things went back to normal.
I have worked with many cowriters and up till now have never made a cent from writing songs......It is a fun thing to do and few of the millions who write songs can honestly say they make any money...in fact in time, labour, equipment, recording costs etc etc etc this "hobby" costs a fortune. If the day ever comes when one of my songs makes it into the big time THEN and only THEN will I worry about contracts. Up till then I choose people to cowrite with who I get on with and can trust. If we need a contract to have a bit of fun writing songs with someone then things have got way out of hand and I can do without the hassle.

Jim,

You are right on that. To even think that a musician or songwriter, who by very definition are some of the flakeiest people on the face of the planet, will live up to some piece of paper is quite frankly pretty silly.

At one time, contracts were a fine thing. When you are dealing with Unions, leagal entities, major airplay, television, motion pictures, etc. yeah there are times for that. But by the time you get to that point, other people, managers, lawyers, etc. are involved in the overall project. Up until then it is much ado about nothing. Most songs never make a dime, so the idea of drawing up a contract to talk over percentages of nothing really don't seem to make a lot of sense.

Again, unless you are dealing with someone you don't know or seems already hard to deal with. But if that is true, why would you be dealing with them in the first place?

MAB