JPF Home Page Forums Creative Arts Forums Creative Writing Forum Redwing Goes To Nashville..............

Once a month NSAI(Nashville Songwriters Association International) has a pitch-to-publisher night. Having been a member in the 80's, (when they put the cassettes in a fishbowl
and only played the few pulled out) I phoned ahead to make sure
the song would be played. When they told me that only the first verse and chorus would be played, I had second thoughts about going.

But I needed an excuse to go to Nashville, so I said "what the hell." I knew it was a bad omen when tornado warnings started happening as soon as I checked into the Best Western Music Row(anyone going to Nashville I suggest that you stay here).

Although I have lived in Nashville twice, I had forgotten how confusing the streets are around Music Row. To make sure I would be on time, I went for a practice run to make sure I knew where I was going. It was a dark and stormy night (and rush hour) in Nashville. The street I was looking for was one-way.
However, I was always going the wrong way. I ended up going back to the hotel and calling a cab.

Already feeling stupid, I arrived on time to the standing room only event, and was greeted by God. Or she thought she was. Anyone that has ever lived on a farm, just imagine what it was like when sending cows to market. There was not a happy looking face in the bunch.

God took my CD and tossed it in the out-of-town plastic basket.
Just as I decided to take it back and leave, a sweet little voice
said "I see two seats in the back, so let's go get em." This ray of sunshine was named Rachale.

God introduced the publisher(all I can remember is that she represented Cherry Street) and told her and, the crowd, how things were to be. The publisher (I think her name was Jennifer)seemed to be surprised that only a verse and chorus were to be played.

Most of the writers that I heard seemed to be on a first name basis with God. Bad sign. I listened to around 50 songs which
49 were GREAT. No kidding the songs were radio ready, and were much better than songs on the radio. Granted the majority were about Hay, broken hearts, and drinking too much, but they were good. By the time RISE was played, I knew this was no place for
a message song. Everyone applauded (but they did for everyone) and the publisher said "very nice."

The publisher seemed to be impressed with all the songs, but she let everyone know from the start that she had writers working for her, and would not be taking anything.

Because my butt was numb, I needed a drink and a cigarette, and the person behind me needed a tic-tac, I decided to say good-by
to this talented group. God handed me a CD, and I left. It was not until later that I realized that the CD was not mine.

Now here is the real depressing part. I went back to the hotel
with the intentions of calling Mark and Tom, but went into the lounge to have a drink. The four people (one of them was with the singer) in the lounge were listening to a male duo with a huge tip bucket sitting in front of them. I was floored when I recognized the singer. It was Craig Martin who wrote Tim McGraws
"Don't Take The Girl." He is from my hometown. I looked around the empty room, and I felt really bad for him. I didn't even say
hello. Instead, I went to lower Broadway to visit Layla at Bluegrass Inn, but she wasn't there, so I took my depression back to the room.

Do I think this trip to Nashville was a bust? Not really. Do I wish that I had sent the $150 membership fee to join NSAI to JPF
instead? Yes! Only because part of that money pays God who is rude and never smiles. You would think a rep of this organization would have a personality unlike that of a throw rug.

As far as the future of RISE, well I'll be like Joan Jett was with "I LOVE ROCK'n'ROLL." She was turned down by twenty-two record companies before it was recorded. If you believe in a song then rejection is not that difficult.

redwing

You DO have a way with words redwing.
There must be a least a couple hooks in your post <G>
Seriously, Sorry it didn't go better.
Yep, I know the feeling from way back, to arrive at a pitch and everybody knows everybody but nobody knows you.

Well, like life, Nobody said it was gonna be easy.
Persevere!!!!!!!!!!!
Wy

Fascinating reading, Red. I, too, have been to Nashville and met God (or one of Her avatars). It's enough to turn you off to religion.

Joe

That's a great write-up -- but I wish things had gone more cheerful for you. However, I do have one question -- why the hell didn't you just stay and listen to Craig Martin???? Since he was from your hometown, that would have been a great icebreaker. You could of gone up to him and said "Hey, I am songwriter from your hometown -- but I promise I won't ask you to listen to anything I have. Can I ask you a few questions?"

Kevin

sorry you didnt call me

but I do look forward to seeing you and Polly when you come down for your Spring Fling......I will start the PR for the Cougar tour of this town.......send me a picture Janet....I promise no one over 25 will even try to get into your hotel room........

Tom

I would have told god that I am an atheist and where she could put my cd!... good thing I didn't go......LOL

WY....I'm glad you enjoyed my renderings. I did get a few ideas
about some songs from my adventure. Thanks for your comment.


Joe....Nashville is full of Higher Powers, and sometimes I have thought that it's their job to make one feel like one of your road-kills LOL.

Kevin.....I never expected too much from this trip as far as my song goes, and the reason I didn't stay and listen to Craig is because, I just felt bad that only three people, besides his woman, was there to hear him. It was depressing, but on second thought I should have approached him. It might have made him feel good that someone wanted his advice.

Thanks for reading, and don't think I didn't notice that you never commented on RISE. You, like Wy, were so gracious to me when I first posted on this board, so I watch for your comments.
God, in Nashville could take some lessons from you and Wy on warmth LOL.

redwing

Tom.....I'll leave the cougaring to Polly. Been there, done that
before cougary was cool. Those young ones are difficult to get rid of. Would you believe that nobody on this board even knows what I look like? Not even Sharla! I think that's kinda cool.
Anyway, if you are curious, drop by the Best Western Music Row,
and ask the night desk clerk about the woman she called the cab for on Thursday. I would tell you to ask God at NSAI, but I think out-of-towners are invisible. Thanks for reading.

redwing

I'll find RISE and comment on it later today. I have to go out shopping right now. Is it in the MP3 section or lyric section?

Kevin

Nice read, red!

To me it seems publisher nights like that are more just events, set up to entertain, than real opportunities. But good events to be learned from, of course. Just not really opportunities to get songs though the needles eye.

Why would a publisher worth a dang listen to outside writers songs, when they at any given time are fed by their own writers and at any given time can attend a writers night where a-team songwriters like Craig Wiseman, Jeffrey Steele, Rivers Rutherford, Bob DiPiero, Dave Pahanish, MAB and the bunch, with proven track records for market insight, plays their freshly penned hit songs?

Not to pick up songs, for sure, like the publisher said, up front..

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I would have told god that I am an atheist and where she could put my cd!... good thing I didn't go......LOL
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I like the way you think Sharla!!!
<G>
Wy
(Hmmm, That brought up another hook. I may have to start writing again )

Songcabinet....you are right and I wonder if the publisher was paid to listen. What most surprised me was the crowd in general.
Back when NSAI was just NSA you could meet other writers and talk about music trade numbers etc. . This group reminded me of top spies with secrets they would kill to keep. I'm surprised that their CD's was not handcuffed to their wrists. However,
I think it was the persona that God was projecting that made them so tense.

I think another reason for these events is the money spent getting the demos recorded in Nashville. The music was sooooo
good and the production of just about every demo was nice. In other words, the lyrics could have been less than stellar, but who cares when the music is so good. Rachale, my one friend at this shindig clued me in on the reason everything sounded so great. Because she knew many of the writers there, she knew where most of them cut their demos.

The price was not that bad, either.

Thanks for reading and commenting. I appriciate it. How's the publishing in Denmark?


redwing

Heh, yeah, no wonder why newcomers in the songwriting business have such bad reputation. Sometimes I really do get why the doors are as closed as they are, allthough I regret it at the same time.

Well, demos, maybe, but it's not the musicians, engineers and producers who's taking our money.. that's for sure. Musicians are generally paid too little, and they don't get their deserved cuts of the revenue from hit songs. So Im not sure there's a big scheme. Everybody wants an identity as an important vip, allthough very few people can make real things happen. The good people are generally more low key, I believe.

Either way, you've been to Nashville, seen some parts of the bizz, and sometimes there's just cucumbers and biscuits in the lunchbox. And sometimes.. (fill in your biggest dreams).

Publishing in Denmark is about the same as everywhere else. In a country with only 5.000.000 people, the vip circles are so small, they make Music Row look like a whole continent. But things are more open. Actually, one of the major labels in Denmark have unsolicited online submissions where you can just upload your mp3's! Yeah, believe that. Unfortunately there are no country artists you can pitch to. The few we have are selfcontained or are just doing covers of old hits. In fact we don't have songwriters like in the US at all, but for a few exceptions. Most artists are selfcontained over here, and if not they get their songs from the producers.

But I feel pretty close to the music industry, even in my small town up north in the world. In my small town, we have an International animation school, so very often vip's from the film industry visits. I can bump into a producer from Disney in my local supermarket, without ever knowing! I can get to London in three hours, for so little money, I could do it every week.. and in fact, if I want to, I can get on a plane 12 miles from my home at 6.30 in the morning and be in Nashville International Airport for evening supper! Fares are reasonable enough to be doing the trip couple times a year, too, if some opportunities show up. I'd bet many Americans can't make it faster! The world is amazingly small, when you look into the routes. Globalization really means that time and space is unbelieveably compressed

So, I'd rather take my chances in the states with my music. Country music is almost dead here, mostly because everyone who plays country does the traditional styles, so it gets a bad reputation as old farts music with the young. We don't have the contemporary traditions of country here at all, that I personally like so much. That's a major reason why I project my heart on the commercial, but also flourishing songwriters town of Nashville. I really dig contemporary country music, and have seen what can happen to a perfectly good genre, if it doesn't keep up with the times..

Songcabinet....thanks for telling me about the song biz in your country. I found it very interesting. Although I love some of the country music that I grew up listening to, I love all the new stuff. Sugarland and Lady Antebellum are my favorites.
Thanks, once again, and when in Nashville, let me know. I think
we all should meet there, someday.


redwing

I never come over here but saw the title when skimming and had to read on, so glad I did. Janet you are such a talent. I loved how you described the evening and w/such sarcastic humor. By the way, God is a whole lot nicer. She perhaps was "God-less" and thats maybe why she wasn't smiling too much. Anyway thanks for sharing your experience and good for you that you still hold out hope because you should. Didn't the Beatles get rejected 62 or something times?? I'm alittle confused..if the publisher said she "wouldn't be taking anything" what was the purpose of the evening. Could there have been someone (a stealth stalker) who might have heard something good and pulled that person/tape aside and made inquiries?? Just curious??

Entertaining narrative, Janet!

Yes, Nashville can be a strangely depressing place if you try to play the game "in the box." Reminds me of the back of a Bobby Bare Jr. CD - there's a freeway sign approaching a fork; one way points to Nashville, the other to Hope. :-)

-Ethan

Thanks Ethan! Love Bobby's "Five Hundred Miles Away From Home."
and "Detroit City." I'm waiting for MAB to chew me out for my little story LOL.



redwing

HEY WAIT! I was gonna do that,,,,,, just kidding
you know if you look around enough on these message boards I would guess there's a song found in at least 1 in 10 posts.....
yes Janet and I will persue and tweek and persue and tweek till one of us gets a bite or drops dead....(hopefully gets a bite)
sharla

On the one in ten, I would totally agree.
All you have to do is pay attention and not be thinking about eating, sleeping, working , (Well, I can scratch the working part <G>)---and other mundane things like that.
Wy
(I've got a Chorus ,3 verses and a bridge to the "God" song)
(Do you ever sing any semi religious songs?)

(Leave the drop dead option till last <G>)

Redwing
That's an interesting story about your trip.
I take it you only stayed one night. I was going to the Thursday night Pitch every month for a while. Then life got in the way and I quit going.
I am surprised to hear you had such a bad time. I never experienced that. "God" if she is who I think you are referring to was always courteous and helpful. Perhaps there has been a personnel change.
The reason you got the feeling everyone knew each other is probably because most of them did. They are the writers who live close enough to Nashville and are persistent enough to show up on those Thursday nights. They are there every month. They are the writers that attend Pat and Pete Luboff's Monday night writers night. Go to the Blue bird and Douglas Corners every chance they get. Play open Mic's, attend as many songwriter functions as they can.
They keep trying, they don't give up.

But there are also the out of towners that come when they can. I use to see the same out of towner faces too.

AS for the Quality of music. Yes Most of it is very well produced. But most of the songs are the same.
The Publishers are there looking for that one song that has something new and fresh. Something that makes them want to hear a second verse.
They all say they have writers on staff and are not looking for any new writers. They also say they won't be taking any songs.
The Publisher that took Blake Sheltons Hit "She Wouldn't Be Gone" said the same thing. But when he heard that song it was instantly obvious he heard something fresh and new.
He played the entire song.
I was there. And though well done the demo was less than Stellar. But it was a great song.

Now you have me wondering why I haven't been going for these last few months.


Sorry you had such a bad experience. You should have called some of us in towners. Let us know you'd be here.

Bill.....back in the fall I sent you a message (because of your invitation included at the bottom of your page) and introduced myself. I never heard back from you, so I didn't know you cared LOL. We all have different experiences, so no need to feel bad for me. I know Pat Luboff, now there's a class act.



redwing

Redwing
When did you send me a message? E-mail or PM?
If it was anytime around September or through the end of October I probably missed it.
My Brother was very ill and He passed away then I had a major move to make with my Mother in Law. All back and forth from Michigan to Tennessee.
So I apologize if I did not respond.
Of course I care.

The Man Cave (project studio) is done. The invitation goes on.
I just finished setting everything up.

Next time let me know. I promise I will get back to you.

Bill....I can't remember if I emailed or sent you a PM, but I do remember it was before your brother passed.

When I come back to Nashville, I'll be sure to come by the mancave. I lived in East Nashville on Beechmont is that close to the mancave?

redwing

Well, I do too like the old stuff. I listened a lot to country in my teens. Hank, Merle, Willie, Don.. but as I've grown older I grown more angry on the world, so the new rockin' stuff is a better match for my mood, these days



I'd love that, but Im afraid when I make it there, I'll actually be in heaven!

Oh No! Why? Finances, fear of flying or you just don't want to?
I love to see people from far, far away visit Nashville. I worked
at the Wild Horse, in Nashville, and folks from other countries
were my favorite people. Maybe, you will visit, one day.

I love your music by the way. I've listened to all the songs by you and Janice. They are very fine songs.




Janet

Hey Janet,

Wow, that's one sorry story !

Why do people bother going ? Do the publishers pick up a song or two, or is it just a pat on the back kind of stuff ?

Makes you want to write the slowest, saddest blues song possible, and cry into your beer at the same time.

How about "My Song Got Rejected by God in Nashville Blues"

Chin up ! Soldier on !

cheers, niteshift

Hey Niteshift! Thanks for reading my little contribution. Just so you know, I always try to catch your comments on the forums, cause you're so informed.
I wish I could tell you why so many writers attend this event.
At one time it was an excellent source for meeting writers and musicians. But this crowd seemed too tense to mess with LOL.
Perhaps the publisher took some songs after I left. She did say that she was not looking for material.
I went cause I needed an excuse to go to Nashville (I only live three hours away) but I did hope to meet other writers.

Tell you what.....I'll write the lyrics if you will write the music to your song suggestion . Exactly what do you do? I need information on shooting a video, so if this is your expertise, I could use some direction.


Janet

Janet,

I'm not saying that you do, but to all those reading your story I'd say: don't focus on one negative person.

Gatekeepers are hired to do just that. It's like security people at a nightclub. They aren't hired to be chummy or to let folks sort of push the rules a bit, they are hired to keep good folks safe and bad folks out. Well, it's the same in the "biz."

Believe it or not, there are a LOT of real nutcases who come to Nashville thinking their stuff is all hit quality and if they could just get into some record executive's living room for a few hours, and maybe get chummy with his wife and children, that they'd be the next Willie Nelson. "Wild eyed and wild haired"* they stalk the streets of Music Row trying to get in the door behind someone for whom the lock was buzzed open...figuratively and literally.

So, you get G-d (not to use His holy name for such an unholy game) scowling and scaring off the fruitcakes. She will be found at every event where she becomes the gatekeeper for THE gatekeeper. She gets between the biz folk and the wannabes. You'll find her, or him (the many faces of G-d), near publishers, producers, artists and an assortment of vice presidents.

Enough of her. If she runs you off, you've just lost the game. Ka-ching. Next player, please. Those of us who live here know she and her ilk are all over the place, but pay her no more mind than we pay to the state trooper on the side of the road...if we're not the ones for whom they lurk, then they are inconsequential.

So come on back and next time, write about the successes you've had, and may you have many.

All the Best,
Mike

*from "Crazy Mary" by Michael Peter Smith

I think I just got taken to the woodshed LOL. I never intended to offend anyone, nor do I think my experience will prevent anyone from attending such events.

Because I am Head of Security for a company that employes seven-hundred associates, I know about "nutcases and gatekeeping." I also know the difference in doing ones job and wielding ones power.

As for being "ran off" ain't gonna happen. Sorry if I got on your bad side with my ramblings.....I sure didn't mean that to happen.

Janet


Janet

Janet,

Please don't misunderstand me, the first thing I wrote was:



Nobody's taking nobody to the woodshed

All I can say is that the hostility and rudness should have no place in artistry, and therefore no place in the process of selection of material, but that's Nashville for ya.....

I've found much less rudeness in Nashville toward the art community than anywhere else I've been. There are songwriter associations, writers' nights, open stages, get togethers, seminars, and on and on. Many are free, few are expensive, fewer are ripoffs. There is a wonderful infrastructure for the arts here. We have a world class symphony orchestra with a new symphony hall that is absolutely top quality. There are resources here for all of the fine arts that rival those of cities five times as large, all with a down-home sensibility. I have, however, encoutered much rudeness toward Nashville itself, I call it "Nash-bashing."

Nashville banks, for example, understand and work with musicians and artists. The banks in the Music Row area have bank officers on duty who specialize in the music business. Music stores here understand the need of the professional musician far more than those I've visited in other cities.

Are there rude people? Yes...everywhere. They will be rude to everyone, even rude to peoples' businesses, hometowns, counrties, religions, etc. Rudeness is a fact of life. But I don't see it here any more than elsewhere, indeed, I see it less. Could it be better here? Yes. It could be better everywhere, but in my experience, Nashville is not exceptionally rude to artists...it is exceptionally open and welcoming.

Mike is right.
I have never met such an open and welcoming community of folks. But you get back what you put out. That said, visitors must remember the folks here have seen it all come and go many times.

Janet
My place is about 25 minutes northwest of downtown Nashville. On the way to Clarksville. Just off Clarksville Pike.I looked back through my e-mails and found your e-mail. It was about August 31. That was about the time I knew my Brother was in big trouble. I can see why I might have missed it. I had a lot going on then. I was following his treatment schedule pretty closely and was doing research into other treatments at about that time.

Red, I think Bill, Mike and Bobbie are the three best reasons I know to visit Nashville. As far as God goes, the next time I saw her I would quote her the Bible: "In my Father's house there are many mansions." Some of them are way more hospitable.

joe

If you go back and take the time to read my original post,
you will see that I did not Nash-bash. I've LIVED in Nashville. Anyone that knows me will tell you that I love that
town.

I do, however, still have a problem with NSAI, but that in no way
has anything to do with the town.

Mike.....yes the banks in Nashville do a fine job. Matter of fact I just received a letter from Regions offering their services....don't know where they got my name.

Bill.....glad you found my sent mail.


Janet

Janet, I for one, never once thought you were Nash-bashing.

After spending years here at JPF, I see certain patterns. One being, whenever someone makes an accurate depiction of a single event, such as yours is, others will extrapolate that into a broad judgement. With Nashville posts it happens nearly every time. I try to head off the Nash-bashing before it starts LOL.

Moving here has been one of the most positive things I have done in my life. The people here are among the most friendly and helpful I've met anywhere. The music business here, well, a friend used to say, "This is the NFL." Yes, it is tough, but everyone gets a shot. Now, is there access at every level? Do unknowns get to meet with vice presidents? No. It is not reasonable or realistic to think that would be the way. But every hit writer I've met had to come up through the same social and business networks that are open to anyone else. Writers' nights, conventions, gatherings, seminars and such; also golfing, barbecues, charity events, and church. In other words, you participate in society.

Some folks have a difficult time participating in society. I understand that. I'm shy by nature. I found that I could get on stage, sing, and make jokes to thousands of people, but tend to clam up at a party or especially with just a few folks. It took an effort on my part to "turn on" the stage me in social situations. I still have to remind myself to do so. But that's the same here in Nashville as it is in Miami, New York, Cleveland, Zurich, or Beijing. All things else being equal, Nashville rates as a very open and friendly town.

I highly recommend that folks try going to Doak Turner's songwriter get togethers. He holds them on the third Sunday of each month starting 3pm at his home. Marc Barnette is a regular and a de facto group leader (Marc was NEVER shy ). PM him and he'll provide you with directions. Folks will find a group of people who will show just how welcoming and helpful Nashville can be. But y'all have to do your part. Want to find welcoming and helpful people? Be a welcoming and helpful person.

All the Best,
Mike

I was referring to the characters (and their actions) described in the story that began this post....

No one should be forced to endure that kind of treatment by anyone.

As for Nashville itself?
There are some people who seem to believe that putting their insecurities first and foremost among their lifelong ambitions.........It's the same thing in Hollywood with the movies and television.
That's where the whole cliche came from.
That pathetic, "I'm so much better than you, so go f**k off...." attitude might be enough to make us mad at first, but really it's quite amusing...these types star in their very own real life cartoons.

I did read Mike's post, and I didn't intend for my comments to apply universally to anyone/everyone who lives here in Nashville, I was simply agreeing with the original topic.

The simple fact is....alot of folks have decided that money is the sole basis for making music, and have therefore corrupted the art with commercialism.....and idiots.

Songwriting ain't about money, it's about showing a deep and abiding love for the art of writing/playing and for the artists who make it all come true.

Love the art, hug the artist..........for to live without...