JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum Another copyright question 2009

According to this website: http://www.countrymusicclassics.com/CMCStorySong.htm

According to Bob Wills, "Faded Love" was an old fiddle tune that his family had played for years.

Bob commented, "My family had been playing that tune for as long as I can remember. I don't remember anyone ever saying where it came from.

Does this mean you can use the tune and write new lyrics to it, sort of like Elvis/whoever did with Aura Lee?

Hey Saus,

IF the version you use can be proved to be public domain, then you can write new words to it. Be careful, though, for example the version of "Faded Love" with the key change might be copyrighted by Wills. A lawyer would tell you to get a lawyer.

Or just work on trying to write something original. Those other ones have been done. Why take a chance on them being copywritten, and spend a lot of time and effort on it, only to run into legal problems? It is already hard enough. Why make it even harder?

MAB

I do quite a few tracks with public domain material. Mostly Xmas songs and now I started variations of children's songs.

I don't register them with the copyright office. If I did, I'd register it as an SR (sound recording) and list the original composer (if known).

When these tracks are registered with ASCAP, there's a line that includes the original composer that needs to be filled out. If it's not known (or questionable) it's listed as "unknown" like "Green Sleeves".

There are websites that list public domain songs in alphabetical order. You'll find several if you Google.

Best, John

There are a lot of opportunities for licensing using p.d. stuff. My first encounter with it was over thirty years ago for what is now called the Special Olympics. I was contacted to adapt and produce a public domain melody to fit existing lyrics. The chosen melody was "This Little Light of Mine" the lyrics were "A Time to Give." They came to me because I was both a songwriter and a teacher at the Old Town School of Folk Music, in Chicago, and had the resources to find a good fit.

Many pop, rock, blues and country songs, though they are copyrighted, are actually public domain melodies. Charlie Daniels won a famous lawsuit for this. His song "Long Haired Country Boy" was sued by Acuff Rose Publishing for one of John D. Loudermilk's melodies. Daniels proved to the court that the melody was public domain.

John, I've never found these PD web sites very useful. They are not consistant, and some have very little info.

It's a crap shoot. I would prefer to consult Mike Dunbar here, or e-mail Happy Traum (an expert on PD music) when I have a PD question. Happy can tell you off the top of his head if a song is PD. As Mike would say these guys aren't lawyers but it's a good start.

John, as someone else said, just pay the bail!

Charlie Daniels also used "Lonesome Fiddle Blues" for "The Devil Went Down To Georgia".

I agree if there's any doubt, do extensive research. Cross reference your search if you need to be more sure. These public domain songs are a part of music history. They're not all that difficult to acquire the info that's needed.

Often you'll find a public domain tune going back centuries.

Best, John

"John, I've never found these PD web sites very useful. They are not consistant, and some have very little info" - Ben

I agree Ben, pertaining to newer/recent public domain songs. Gotta be very careful there.

However, the older ones like Silent Night, Battle Hymn of the Republic, Auld Lang Syne, etc., I wouldn’t be concerned with those. I think everyone knows that they’re dang old tunes. One quick check would be sufficient for me.

Here's one list of PD tunes: http://www.pdinfo.com/list/a.htm But cross reference with a couple other sites to play it safe.

Best, John

Reputable, scholarly folk music collections can be helpful, such as Lomax's "Folk Songs of North America."

I copied the following fron this site: http://www.pdinfo.com/faq.php Interesting!

Any work in the public domain can be freely used by any one in any manner they choose. There is no law which requires you to have any proof of public domain in order to use a public domain work.

The problem is that it is virtually impossible to securely determine that a work is in the public domain in the USA unless you have a copy of the work with a copyright date of 1922 or earlier.

Most recognizable public domain songs have hundreds of arrangements of the song which are still under copyright protection, and in many instances the arranger has significantly changed the melody or lyrics from public domain versions.

So to be confident you are truly using a public domain work, you need to find a public domain version of the work before you begin your project.

A reprint from a source you trust or a photocopy from a library are most adequate. You then work exclusively from your public domain source copy to change and arrange the song as you like to create the music you need for your project.

John

One of biggest country records of all time (for it's time) was "I Didn't Know God Made Honky Tonk Angels." Kitty Wells of course made another hit just as colossal called "It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels." The melody of both are the same as "Great Speckled Bird" by Acuff and "I'm Thinking Tonight Of My Blue Eyes." And I think Willie did the tune with new words on his "Red Headed Stranger" album.

Yes, and I am sure the copyright question on that can be resolved sometime around 3085. That is about the year all copyright questions will be resolved.

MAB

Marc,
Have you forgotten about 2012? De end is near!

2112

You know what I think/ I think the world will end, some new civilization will emerge, develop much faster due to sped up evolution and after the reinvent fire, find out how to kill animals, develop a social order, some rudimentary form of communication, one of the first actual conversations will be.

"Ummm. Look at Thag's gut. Must Eat Thag."

"Umm. Yes. But first. Get Copyright forms."

MAB

I guess the cockroach (and some other insects) can survive a nuclear holocaust. If cockroaches emerge as the new civilization, it probably wouldn’t be so bad.

They’re much less spoiled than man. They’ll eat anything and live in the most modest conditions. I’ve never seen a greedy cockroach. Not sure what kind of musicians they’d make though.