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#347990 06/28/04 08:37 PM
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Caucasian Persuasion

i'm not a prejudiced man
i'll have you understand
equality is black and white
red yellow brown all is right

every race is worth it's due
that goes for pale folks too
b.e.t ebony and soul train
driving my flat feet insane
you b.e.t.cha
you b.e.t.cha
you b.e.t.cha
ya dooo


i'm starting up a new enterprise
gonna call it the caucasian persuasion
it's my sworn duty to popularize
square dancing, the driving force behind my station
my radio show ivory keys
gonna ban Jimi's purple haze
chalk it up, a comedy on prime time TV
going back to those good, bad old days

political correctness will tear me up
righteous folk will call me a racist slut
saying race relations will never be the same
putting all the blame in my honky name
you b.e.t.cha
you b.e.t.cha
you b.e.t.cha
ya dooo

it's not a popular belief that i crave
some will say my ancestors owned slaves
you b.e.t.cha
you b.e.t.cha
you b.e.t.cha
ya dooo

i'm starting up a new enterprise
gonna call it the caucasian persuasion
it's not about bread, milk and rice
hate won't be the prevailing topic of conversation
my radio show ivory keys
gonna ban Jimi's purple haze
chalk it up a comedy on prime time TV
going back to those good, bad old days

nobody has to read listen or watch my quest
with the freedom of choice we are all blessed

you b.e.t.cha
you b.e.t.cha
you b.e.t.cha
ya dooo

© 2004 by ritt

® 2004 by random noise music


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[

[This message has been edited by sweetjoyce (edited 06-30-2004).]

#347991 06/28/04 08:46 PM
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Amen and good luck

Bill

------------------
We too often throw the word "great" around like it was a frisbee, instead of the manhole cover it should be


#347992 06/28/04 08:55 PM
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Bill

now that i'm dead, i have no worries!

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#347994 06/29/04 12:43 AM
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Hi Noel

b.e.t. is black entertainment network, a TV station, Soull Train is a black music program, and ebony is a black womens magazine. My only point here is if whites were to open a mag, or tv show and call it the caucasian persuation, all hell would break loose.

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#347995 06/29/04 01:11 AM
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I get your point and agree. What's good for some should be good for all; equality should be across the boards. I think this could probably be a little less straightforward and maybe a little more biting somehow... let the idea incubate a little longer. It's something that needs saying.

CP

#347996 06/29/04 01:18 AM
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Ok Corey

how about this

fight for integration
opt for segregation
race riots and civil war
all for naught, all for naught

birds of a feather
will flock together
what's good for the brothers
should be good for all others

but if---into basically what the rest says

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#347997 06/29/04 02:15 AM
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Ritt,

Nice job. We live in the land of the offended, no matter what you say or how you say it someone takes offense. If any one race of people should be complaining about slavery and mistreatment it should be the Jews. They have suffered and endured more than any of us ever have or will. We should all be counting our blessings.

Selina

#347998 06/29/04 02:52 AM
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Ritt,
This might get just as many hits as the rant thread and I hope it does!
I have always thought that political, and grammatical correctness, sounds forced in everyday conversation, not to mention in song!
You've hit on something that like the OTHER thread some people will dislike but those that can relate to will ( forgive me Mr. Dawg} call it art.
What's equal rights for one SHOULD be for another! BUT that ain't the way it is.
Sorry if I ranted and messed up your thread But I had an idea in my head along these same lines after reading the rant.
Isn't prejudicism in so many forms and it doesn't matter if you are White, Black, or Polka-dotted, or Fat, Skinny, or handikapped in any way.
I don't know if I interped your lyric the way you wanted , but like everyone,I did it my way.
Good Job overall I'll nit later.
kc

#348000 06/29/04 05:52 AM
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Hi Noel

For the most part I agree with you, the country club atmosphere is a horrid one, and the amount of human indecencies are endless against minorities. In basketball legend Bill Russell's autobiography, he talks about having to sit in the back of the team bus when they traveled south; and how sometimes he and his black teamates would go hungry because they wouldn't serve blacks (he used the n word, but no sense in doing that here) in the restaurants his white teamates frequented. The amount of human atrocities reaped upon minotities is endless; and I'm not singling out the south, most southern blacks when asked why they didn't move to the north would reply something like, at least in the south the snakes are out in the open. My point in this lyric is do two wrongs ever make a right? By the actions of predominantly black organazations excluding whites, does this tell you that had the tables been reversed and blacks had been the majority, would they have behaved any less abhorently than their white counterparts? In what way does having a b.e.t. enhance integration? Yes there is no need for a w.e.t. perhaps I was being somewhat sarcastic to make my point. Hopefully I haven't offended too many folks. I could go on about statistics, but mayor Dinkens, a black man, got elected in NYC with 12% of the population deemed to be black; well trust me it wasn't the jews, the irish or the italians who voted him in. The fact is that minorities refuse to fill out census forms, as they are afraid of gov't intervention, rightfully so, but the census statistics determine what school districts get best funded, so round and round it goes.

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[This message has been edited by sweetjoyce (edited 06-29-2004).]

#348001 06/29/04 06:23 AM
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Ritt

This is an intense lyric.
Discussing the subject is like sticking your hand in a hornet's nest. However, no discussion, no communication, nothing accomplished.

It's amazing isn't it how we work as humans to solve our problems then abuse the solutions to create problems again.

For years this country needed unions. What happened, they became too powerful. Now, we pay 30,000 - 60,000 bucks for an automobile and the guy sweeping the floor at the manufacturing plant gets 25 bucks an hour......The cycle never ends.

However, I think any kind of racial prejudice is wrong. You know the old saying, "what goes around comes around."
Maybe we're paying for what our forefathers did....I dunno, a unique lyric once again my friend and a topic needing to be addressed.

Eric


If you're going to judge someone, do it on the side of mercy.
#348002 06/29/04 08:36 AM
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Hello Ritt,

This is some creative writing & and quite a conversation piece.
I treat each person by how they act, if their sorry, then their sorry, whatever their race might be.

Calvin

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewartmusic.htm

#348003 06/29/04 12:50 PM
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I think about this concept often and glad you wrote about it! I've come across some things just in my life that just didn't taste right.....YOU Said it great! I didn't realize people were segregating themselves though? Are you saying they are being snobbish? I've often felt like the minority throughout my adult life...single mom, working poor, ticking bomb, knick knack whore...which is why I don't get into knick knacks to this day!!! hate being categorized or labeled!

I'm certain that the "thinking people" of ANY race will understand this lyric and understand the racial issues. yet there are always those others who will continue to victimize themselves. Everyone should have the right to accept or not accept particular people as long as they do not harm themselves or others!! I wouldn't be associating with people who I wouldn't have sitting with me and my family at our dinner table. I don't even think it's the color of the race...it's the ignorance behind it. Great Work...great mind!


My Sound Click

In a time of universal deceit, speaking truth is a revolutionary act", George Orwell

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#348004 06/29/04 02:07 PM
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Hi Selina, geez that's a pretty name, what issue of playboy was that lol j/k

Thanks for the read, my feeling is here in the us of a it's everyone's privilige to bitch, kinda gets us through the day; does one sect's barrel hold more tears than anothers, is impossible to say with any certainty. Thanks again your insightfulness is always welcome.

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#348005 06/29/04 02:15 PM
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Ritt,

I understand the POV of the song and for what it's worth, the message is thought provoking. I used to think this way too but I've come to the conclusion that this thinking is wrong.

Given the shameful history of the way the US has treated those who did not fit a certain profile, if you will, it's difficult for me to reconcile the thoughts that go into a song like this.

You don't subjugate an entire race of people for 300 or more years then one day decide everything's okay and NOW we're all equal. It just doesn't work that way. You've got centuries of a group of people being told they are useless, they are less than human, being lynched and pretty much anything you can think of that could dennegrate a person. It's just not a simple thing to undo. It takes generations but I think the fact that there has been an emerging black middle class over the past 20-30 years, is evidence that we are finally starting to get it right after all this time.

Are those of us white people living today responsible for most of this? Most of us are not but I can guarantee you that there are plenty of whites left who played (or still play) a role in the ugliness. They have only gone underground because enough of the good white people finally stood up and said, "enough." Either way, we are stuck with the end result of the crimes committed by those who came before us. Most of us are not to blame but we cannot dismiss the effects of what has been done in the past.

Blacks in the US were robbed of their culture, so they took what they were allowed to have and created their own. Things like BET, Black Miss America, the NAACP are a celebration of the culture they passed on down through generations of servitude and subjugation. The fact that they were able to turn so much ugliness into many positives is a tribute to their fortitude.

All this does not come without problems. The black community still struggles with poverty, crime, unwed motherhood any many other problems in numbers that are disproportinate to their population. But the whites who point to these things as evidence that they are not making the most of the opportunities, are missing the larger point.

Most of the opportunities available to blacks today have only been available for a relatively short amount of time. In the meantime, there is the mindset that has been ingrained in them for centuries. As I said, it doesn't change overnight. This doesn't mean that blacks don't have diversity of opinion. They have a lot more than most of us recognize. The mindset of which I speak is the one engrained by the white culture under which they have been subjected.

Us whites today (again, most of us are not guilty of what was done) want to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it should all be okay now. After all, we (most of us at least) aren't doing anything to hold anybody down right? Why don't "they" act like us and do their best according to our standards? I suspect that it's because it was "our" standards that told them that they were no good and didn't give them a chance to assimilate into our culture. As a result, one can hardly blame them for carving out a culture of their own. Had our predecessors been inclusive from the beginning, I doubt that we'd be having this conversation today.

The point is that blacks have struggled to gain some sense of pride when they were told for so long that they were useless. They still have a cultural mindset to overcome and maybe, just maybe, having these few little things that are just theirs that they don't have to share, helps the healing process along the way.

Things are changing for the better but it's still going to take time. The best we whites can do is be patient and watch blacks come into their own. They have shown that they know how to overcome. Let's not get in their way but if they need a little help along the way, I don't think it hurts us to do this as well.

It's for the reasons above that I cannot enjoy these lyrics though the message is straightforward and conversational (good lyrical qualities). I don't think we need all this political correctness crap and we certainly have become a society of the offended. If your song was about that, I'd be right with you.

[This message has been edited by Buzz Grudge (edited 06-29-2004).]


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#348006 06/29/04 02:16 PM
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Ritt, I had to read this a few tomes before i decided to reply. Over 20 years ago I joined the USMC and coming from a small northern town. We had very few people of any other race in or community. Hell I never spoke to a black person or latino untill I was in boot camp. I didnt have a prejudice bone in my body. Honestly everyone looked the same to me.Then no matter where I went The subject was thrown in my face. And mostly by people of the oppisite back ground. It confused the hell out of this 19 year old nieve boy. As time went by I guess I just accepted it as a part of life. I still treat all people the same.As an oldman once told me It takes all kinds to make the world go round. Thats not to include just ethnic back grounds. But also the crazies,freaks and so on.I just dont beleive in giving preference to any one. And we all should the same chance or say in what we believe in. Great subject great words. Take care. Ken


Poems belong in bookstores. Lyrics belong in songs.
#348007 06/29/04 02:21 PM
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Hi kc

shhhhh i pay folks a handsome sum not to nit; just leave your contact info with my secretary. Yeah prejudice seems to know no prejudice, pops up just about anywhere. Here's some food for thought, I was watching a news program and they were talking about the respective stands of Bush and Kerry on "school vouchers" for inner city kids. The deal is they have this lottery and one out of a hundred or so students from public schools will win a voucher allowing them to go to private school. Bush supports this plan and says he will give 50 million a year towards the program. Kerry is against it saying he would give 150 billion over ten years to strengthen the public schools and put them on par with the private schools. Kerry claims it's better to help all the children, rather than 1 percent, and the school commissioners interviewed all agreed with him, as do I!

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#348008 06/29/04 03:23 PM
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Please excuse as i skip to buzz

Hi, I here you loud and clear, my feeling is I didn't do a good job expressing the satirical edge I was going for; remember rightfully or wrongfully many people share the opinion that "black exclusitivity" is a form of reverse prejudism. I've added four lines to the chorus that will hopefully bring to light the satirical nature I was going for. I also thought this subject matter lent itself well to the silliness of politically correctness; so however unsuccessfully I've tried to intertwine the two..... Well let me know what you think.

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#348009 06/29/04 04:36 PM
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Hey Ritt,

I do think the added lines help make the tone more sarcastic. You might want to work on the verses a little more so they set the tone of the sarcasm a little better.

If you turn this into an obviously sarcastic song, I think you've got a winner here. Of course, you won't get airplay... [Linked Image]


Van Borden
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#348011 06/29/04 09:46 PM
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Rewrite notice

i eliminated the self segregation part, thinking that part put this song over the top as a racists credo. and that wasn't my intention, also added some stuff, curious to see whatcha think?

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#348012 06/30/04 03:10 AM
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Ritt,

I don't think anyone here thought you were trying to be racist. The subject of this song is something a lot of white people can relate to but you would probably prefer it if all races could appreciate the sentiment.

Sadly, that's where political correctness comes in again. I'm not sure there is a way to present this idea without some people viewing it as racist. If it is possible, you probably need to inject a little more obvious humor and some irony. Wish I could give you something more specific but nothing comes to mind right at the moment. I'll let you know if the fog lifts.

Van


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I don't normally get involved in religious or moral debates, especially when it comes to matters of color. I can speak about this because I AM a minority-I'm 1/16th American Indian. Does my skin color reflect this? No. But, my blood line does and maybe that's an altogether different thing. Indians are not thought of quite as negatively as they were 50 or 60 years ago.

I grew up dirt poor in a small town. I was related to no one who lived there. Small towns are exactly the place for someone to grow up in terms of character building. We didn't own our home. My parents drove a jalopy. My mother didn't work. There were 5 kids in my immediate family. Yes, I know there were times when we were looked down upon. So?

I never took piano or dance lessons like some of the other kids did. I had a few nice clothes, but if I wanted anything beyond what my parents could afford I EARNED it. I could always look around and find someone less fortunate than myself and I never knew what it was to have everything handed to me, so I never missed it. We had enough to eat, a roof over our heads and heat in the winter time to keep us warm. I never knew to whine about it. I still don't.

My point is that my parents taught us values. We learned respect for other people-rich or poor and for those from other cultures. We learned that nothing good ever came without having to work for it. We never had a handout nor did we ever want or expect one.

There is no excuse for acting badly-no matter what your upbringing is or what your bloodline is. Period. We are all God's children. Nobody owes us a damned thing in the grand scheme of things.


"Grits is one of those country-boy words that is both singular and plural-like deer, elk and sheep. I think the singular is appropriate when there's a modifier that makes it clear one is talking about something specific. Like, 'Grits are good for you, but these here grits is tasty.'"~~Joe Wrabek
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Thanks Buzz

I made a few more changes to the chorus.

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[This message has been edited by sweetjoyce (edited 06-30-2004).]

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Tricia

When the roof leaked we got out the pots and pans, took turns emptying them out. We had so much of nothing every bit of something was greatly appreciated. I remember going to macy's on sundays night to watch disney in color, we couldn't hear the sound through the picture glass window. When McDonalds first opened and claimed you could feed a family of four for 4 bucks, you shoulda seen my mom and dad smile, their pleasure to have an opportunity to treat us kids. I could go on but suffice it to say I agree with you.

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[This message has been edited by sweetjoyce (edited 06-30-2004).]

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Tricia,

Being white, I'm not really in a position to speak for black folks. The best I can do is try to imagine what it would be like to be black. I can also remember the way I've seen a lot of white people react to blacks when they see them on the street or in other situations.

With all due respect to your experience (and in no way do I mean to downplay it), I think it's safe to say that if you look white (since you're 15/16ths white you are pretty much white), you probably can't speak to the black experience either. It seems to me that anyone who looked down on you was probably being more classist than racist. Of course, what was done to American Indians is another horrible scar on our country's history but you said yourself that you look white.

It seems to me that you are missing the point that black people are hard to miss. It's obvious that they look different from whites. The first thing you see about a person is how they look.

I can tell you that even if I don't shave for a few days or shower one morning and go out looking like a grubby slob, no women ever clutch their purses when I walk by (even if they hold their noses [Linked Image]). A black man would generally have to be clean shaven and wearing a suit before that wouldn't happen to him. To me, that says a lot about people's perceptions of blacks and it's based only on skin color.

In the end, you are correct. No one owes anyone a living. But everyone deserves an opportunity to make their own without the deck being purposely stacked against them.

Van


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Tell ya what I think...

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Individuals should not have to identify with accidents of birth such as their race or social class, nor should they see these circumstances entitling them to other people's money. Rather, their self-esteem should come from what they make of themselves through their own efforts to realize their own dreams. However, facing the history of old-fashioned Southern-bigot white racism, it has unfortunately taken time for some of the prejudices to be overcome to a certain degree. Being Canadian, I really don't know how tremendously difficult it has been for some to deal with the racist problem that still exists. However, I think tremendous strides have been made in the right direction to overcome racism. I also think the entertainment media has been responsible for softening racism. Going way back to "To Kill A Mockingbird," "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" up to some of the present day comedy movies or TV movies and sit coms. It all helps!

Buzz made some very good points. This is a time embedded cultural problem that has to be treated with time and well intentioned individuals.

Remember the old book by John Howard Griffin, "Black Like Me?"
Concerned by the lack of communication between the races and wondering what "adjustments and discriminations" he would face as a Negro in the Deep South, he left behind his privileged life as a Southern white man to step into the body of a stranger. In 1959, Griffin headed to New Orleans, darkened his skin and immersed himself in black society, then traveled to several states until he could no longer stand the racism, segregation and degrading living conditions. Griffin imparts the hopelessness and despair he felt while executing his social experiment.
This was before the civil rights movement. On a positive note, let's be thankful for the progress made even though the facts show as always, progress brings with it problems from a different angle.


Eric

[This message has been edited by writefortune (edited 06-30-2004).]


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Buzz, I never said blacks didn't get persecuted. My only point is-and, I say this because I live in the South. I see it. I've lived it. I've been the victim of it in some way or another. Minorities are responsible for most crimes committed here. Why? Mostly, it's a mindset and a way of life. I have many, many black (I pick this genre of person because you picked it) friends. They think the same way I do. You're wrong if you don't work and earn what you have. You're wrong if you shoot someone just for the hell of it. You're wrong for thinking the world owes you anything.


"Grits is one of those country-boy words that is both singular and plural-like deer, elk and sheep. I think the singular is appropriate when there's a modifier that makes it clear one is talking about something specific. Like, 'Grits are good for you, but these here grits is tasty.'"~~Joe Wrabek
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I'm a using the term "you" not meaning you, specifically-I mean in general. I'm also a woman. I don't believe that should entitle me to preferencial treatment. Indians experienced genocide back in the days of the Wild West. The government, in their infinite wisdom, later "donated" land back to the tribes for them to live on. Not only that, our elected officials decided to send them checks every month. Alcoholism is one of the main problems associated with those living on reservations. So is fetal alcohol syndrome. Trying to right a wrong didn't do anything but create another problem. Indians can have their college education fully funded. I learned this after I graduated from college. Most minorities can get a college education. Do they? Nope. It's too easy to sit on a street corner pointing fingers and whining about who did what to whom to go out and change their destiny. My philosophical view on racism and class war is simple and can be summed up in one sentence-Get over it and get a life.



[This message has been edited by Tricia Baker (edited 06-30-2004).]


"Grits is one of those country-boy words that is both singular and plural-like deer, elk and sheep. I think the singular is appropriate when there's a modifier that makes it clear one is talking about something specific. Like, 'Grits are good for you, but these here grits is tasty.'"~~Joe Wrabek
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tricia Baker:
Buzz, I never said blacks didn't get persecuted. My only point is-and, I say this because I live in the South. I see it. I've lived it. I've been the victim of it in some way or another. Minorities are responsible for most crimes committed here. Why? Mostly, it's a mindset and a way of life. I have many, many black (I pick this genre of person because you picked it) friends. They think the same way I do. You're wrong if you don't work and earn what you have. You're wrong if you shoot someone just for the hell of it. You're wrong for thinking the world owes you anything. </font>


Tricia, I agree almost completely with what you said here. My earlier points were about how the lyric could be viewed by some as racist. I don't believe BET, Black Miss America are special treatment. I think they are a celebration of a people who have endured a difficult struggle. I just don't think whites should be complaining about those types of things since almost everything in our history has been tailored to the white people of this country. It seems a bit like whinning IMO - even though, I know that's not how the lyric was meant.


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tricia Baker:
I'm a using the term "you" not meaning you, specifically-I mean in general. I'm also a woman. I don't believe that should entitle me to preferencial treatment. Indians experienced genocide back in the days of the Wild West. The government, in their infinite wisdom, later "donated" land back to the tribes for them to live on. Not only that, our elected officials decided to send them checks every month. Alcoholism is one of the main problems associated with those living on reservations. So is fetal alcohol syndrome. Trying to right a wrong didn't do anything but create another problem. Indians can have their college education fully funded. I learned this after I graduated from college. Most minorities can get a college education. Do they? Nope. It's too easy to sit on a street corner pointing fingers and whining about who did what to whom to go out and change their destiny. My philosophical view on racism and class war is simple and can be summed up in one sentence-Get over it and get a life.

[This message has been edited by Tricia Baker (edited 06-30-2004).]
</font>


Tricia, I also pretty much agree with what you said here. The only thing I'd add is I believe it's easier for white folks to get over being looked down on.

My family never had much money. My father was an alcoholic but he did value education and encouraged all three of us kids to at least get a degree. I was fortunate that my mother was and still is a great woman who showed me unconditional love because I didn't get that from my dad. I never felt looked down on because I honestly never paid attention. I was born in the south and we moved up north when I was 8 years old. I was certainly looked down upon by the kids in school but I just never let it get to me. I think my mother's love has a lot to do with that.

By contrast, a person of color has a more difficult time of moving on. Part of this has to do with culture and part of it personal choice, no doubt. That's why you have the Bill Cosby's of the world going around and trying to talk black kids into staying in school and such. But part of it is what has been institionalized for 300 or so years.

Like I said, black communities have issues that are disproportionate to their numbers. Those who are trying to help younger blacks learn the value of self-reliance and other values, are trying to change that. It just takes time but I do believe progress is being made. There's been an emerging black middle class for about 20-30 years that we don't usually hear much about. They are out there and things are changing.

The entitlement mentality of some folks (and I've met enough folks in my life to know it's not just minorities - not saying you said that), has been fostered by a paternalistic government which wants to provide "care" for us in exhange for our freedoms. This is the root cause of a lot of the entitlement mentality. I personally don't mind helping people who truly need it and are willing to help themselves as much as they are able. I strongly object to anyone who thinks that the government (you, me and all other taxpayers by extention) owes them anything. If you are able to help yourself, get up off your ass and do it or don't come crying to the rest of us if you're too lazy.

Van



[This message has been edited by Buzz Grudge (edited 06-30-2004).]


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Hi, Buzz. Thanks for not thinking I'm a prejudiced bigot. [Linked Image]


"Grits is one of those country-boy words that is both singular and plural-like deer, elk and sheep. I think the singular is appropriate when there's a modifier that makes it clear one is talking about something specific. Like, 'Grits are good for you, but these here grits is tasty.'"~~Joe Wrabek
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nobody commented on my rewrite waaaaaaaaa

fwiw i think religion is the biggest culprit in the spreading of prejudice....no time right now to expound, but why don't ya all relax and listen to Because We Are!!!

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tricia Baker:
Hi, Buzz. Thanks for not thinking I'm a prejudiced bigot. [Linked Image]</font>


It doesn't make one a prejudiced bigot to state an opinion on racial issues. There's much more to being a bigot than that.


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sweetjoyce:
nobody commented on my rewrite waaaaaaaaa

fwiw i think religion is the biggest culprit in the spreading of prejudice....no time right now to expound, but why don't ya all relax and listen to Because We Are!!!

</font>


Ritt, it's getting better. I would change the line about political correctness to...

political correctness will tell me shut up

I like the change the first chorus because the line about square dancing is getting more like obvious sarcasm. I think it's still unclear in the overall message though.

Also, I suspect that you and I probably have a very similar view of organized religion.

Van


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Hi Noel and all

to change the track a littleI'm going ro reitterate the experience I had while taking an african american history class quite awhile back. The thing that struck me the hardest was the self admission of every black student, that they considered themselves inferior to white folks. They totally bought into the racial stereotypes and were resigned to their fate as second class citizens. I was totally amazed, I had never considered this to be a remote possibility; what shocked me more is when the instructor tried to tell them they needed to stand up for themselves, and work hard to challenge the sytematic prejudism, the rumblings from my classmates was, the teacher was a black john wayne, and the system was stronger than they were, and the ramifications were too much to bear. Noel the roots of prejudism run deeper than the average person can fathom, it's sad very sad. In defense of Tricia, the choice of crime is always a wrong one, yeah it ain't easy, or fair, but alternatives are available.

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[This message has been edited by sweetjoyce (edited 06-30-2004).]

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sweetjoyce:
Hi Noel and all

to change the track a littleI'm going ro reitterate the experience I had while taking an african american history class quite awhile back. The thing that struck me the hardest was the self admission of every black student, that they considered themselves inferior to white folks. They totally bought into the racial stereotypes and were resigned to their fate as second class citizens. I was totally amazed, I had never considered this to be a remote possibility; what shocked me more is when the instructor tried to tell them they needed to stand up for themselves, and work hard to challenge the sytematic prejudism, the rumblings from my classmates was, the teacher was a black john wayne, and the system was stronger than they were, and the ramifications were too much to bear. Noel the roots of prejudism run deeper than the average person can fathom, it's sad very sad. In defense of Tricia, the choice of crime is always a wrong one, yeah it ain't easy, or fair, but alternatives are available.

</font>


Ritt, this is exactly why I don't think your lyric will be popular with anyone who is not a member of the majority. Not unless you can really make it an obvious jab at those white folks who are "tired of hearing about it."

Van



[This message has been edited by Buzz Grudge (edited 06-30-2004).]


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I personally do not feel like I have to be taken up for. I have an opinion about certain behaviors of humans. If you are an individual that leeches off the system and you can work, then you are a scourge to society. If you are an individual who has children, one right after the other and you fail to take care of them, then you are a scourge to society, regardless of your color. If you are an individual who believes the world owes you something, then in my opinion, you need to rethink your values.

As it turns out, I lived 23 years in Shreveport. As of right now, the populus of blacks to whites is approximately 50/50. Most of the crimes committed here are committed by minorities.

I take care of gang bangers. I know what life on the street is like-by some of the stories I've heard. A person who is working and supporting a family or one who is trying to better themselves financially or educationally does not get into the trouble these people get into simply because they are too busy or have a different focus on life. They walk another path. Bravo for them!

I'm saying we all have adversity in our lives. Or, we have suffered persecution in some form or another. I do not fault this one or that one for how Indians were treated or for someone being snooty to me when I was growing up because I didn't have as many material possessions as they did. I do not fault British people for taxing the living [naughty word removed] out of us. That crap happened years ago. It's history and there is nothing any of us can do to change it. How we act NOW is the important thing. How we treat each other is the important thing. But first, we must respect ourselves and have a belief system regarding our higher power. Truthfully, the word racism is used too much as an excuse for bad behavior. And, like I said, I will stick to my original belief that if it acts like [naughty word removed] and smells like [naughty word removed], it is [naughty word removed] no matter what it looks like.

I'm sure I'll get deleted after this post, so ya'll keep in touch.





[This message has been edited by Tricia Baker (edited 06-30-2004).]


"Grits is one of those country-boy words that is both singular and plural-like deer, elk and sheep. I think the singular is appropriate when there's a modifier that makes it clear one is talking about something specific. Like, 'Grits are good for you, but these here grits is tasty.'"~~Joe Wrabek
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HIDee Ritt!

Fun, thought-provokin' Lyric.

I'd go along with the Political Correctess of an All-Honkey Music Station...yet the White Youth of Today generally seem to wanna emulate the Black Gangsta Rappers & Hip-Hoppers out there, & your Station'd prolly have lousy Demographics to sell your All-Honkey Ad Time Slots to..JMO.

It's never really been a Black-White Thing in America...it's a GREEN Thing. I just repaired a Black Dr's Clock today..he had a Lot Better House & Car than I've ever owned. No jealousy on my part...heck, I'm thrilled he had the Drive & Determination to get Educated & make something out of his Life.

Bill Cosby recently took a lotta heat for suggesting Blacks owed it to themselves to get a Good Education & Quit Blaming The White Folks for Teenage Pregnancy & Whatever other Disparities seem to afflict those of Color.

Funny Thing you should mention a White-Oriented Radio Station, when so much of Jazz & Rock & Roll has Black Music to Thank for its Very Existence..heh! Gonna be Tough to "Sanitize" any Playlists ya come up with, Bro!

The Majority of Periodicals in the US are Already oriented to a White, Middle Class Audience, anyways. (Hey, even most COMIC BOOKS have had White Middle Class HEROS for Decades after Decades.) It speaks well for our Press that fairly recently {I.e., in the last 3-4 Decades} we HAVE had some Periodicals marketing to our Ethnic Groups exclusively. They are no longer Ignored nor Forgotten Members of Society.

They, like we, are CONSUMERS. Where you have Ignorance & Poverty, sure, you got a Sub-Class...but where you have Education & Opportunites, in Equal Measure to White Folks, suddenly all those "Differences"
pretty much Disappear.

JMO on The Subject.
Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

{Afterthought PS} & Sometimes..it's just DEDICATION that makes all the Difference between Poverty & Success. Even tho he got off to a real bad start in life, Ray Charles sure did OK...heck, lots of White-Owned Radio Stations played the Heck outta his music. ;-)> (Helpin' to keep THEM in-Business, I'll add.)

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Originally Posted by theairshack
Ritt,

Nice job. We live in the land of the offended, no matter what you say or how you say it someone takes offense. If any one race of people should be complaining about slavery and mistreatment it should be the Jews. They have suffered and endured more than any of us ever have or will. We should all be counting our blessings.

Selina





Yeah, the Jewish "burden" on owning the African slave boats and managing the trade must have been horrific.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sweetjoyce:
Hi Noel

b.e.t. is black entertainment network, a TV station, Soull Train is a black music program, and ebony is a black womens magazine. My only point here is if whites were to open a mag, or tv show and call it the caucasian persuation, all hell would break loose.

</font>


Hi Ritt but that is the point I am making exactly.... Why do we need a W.E.T.? or an Ivory? (though I did read some interesting articles in a mag called Ebony and Ivory or was it Black on White???)

Can you tell me how many years after slavery was abolished before a African American student was allowed to go into an all white college in the south... before the rioting stopped.... how many years before an African American gained a leading role on TV or film. There were major networks in the sixties refusing to show shows and films that had too many "balcks" acting normal and intelligent. I remember hearing how Tiger Woods could not belong to a particular Golf Club he'd just one a major at, also the time when the US Govt approved the resumption of Mohecian [sp] Reservation to extend a golf course... did they get support from the local community... No! it for the most part only cared that the stand off made it inconveniant for them. There are still towns where open racism exists in force, the KKK still opperate and the wider WHITE community tolerate it. Do you know what the percentage break down for race/ total population is and how that corellates to race/ unemployment, race/TV personalities, race/ Big time Actors, race/ CEOs, race/ college graduates.... and so on? In Australia it is no different.

So back to your original thing why is there a B.E.T and not a W.E.T. (not counting the KKK run stations) how many TV stations are there and how many are not specifically race oriented then do a percentage check on all of those and see if the %race/employed persons in each facete of the industry = %Race/ total population figures ... and you will have your answer.

Why do we need a BET and ebony? because this gives a portion of the USA's population a chance to have a say that is not garnered by the controlling white hand, something they can take pride in and aspire to be, something to aim for, to model them selves on.

Why is it in Australia the Age of consent for a woman is 16 but for a homosexual male it's 18... because not only is it a white world it is also a man's world. Why don't homosexuals have the same legal rights to marriage as hetro sexuals? Because not only is the country run by White Males they are for the most part White Male Hetrosexuals who would rather see kids sexually abused by a hetrosexual parent than go to a loving safe homosexual family. The world is full of Bigots. race sex religion etc. if it wasn't you'd be 100% right

I hope this doesn't come off as too much of a rant [Linked Image]

Cheers mate





How do you sleep at night with all that firey hatred in your heart? Oh well, whatever keeps you warm at night.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Minorities are responsible for most crimes committed here. </font>


Not to lessen or take away from your horrible experience Trish but I dispute that statement. Crimes are committed by two types of people.... Those who need, and those who can. Those who need, are those who steal because they are hungery, abused, drug dependent, crave attention, have children etc. Those who can are just greedy and selfish. In any society they are evenly proportioned by population group. The fact that minority groups get blamed for most crimes doesn't mean they are acctually guilty. Sure if you live in a pedominatly African American community then yes in that community the majority of crimes will be committed by the majority population.

Just as an end note... It is natural to feel mistrustful of things that are different on first contact... it's part of the human animal.... and is built into us genetically. The fact that we advanced culturally far faster than we did evolutionly means we still have some instinctive behaviours that seem silly. Intelligence is the abillity to over ride instict and make a choice that suits our cultural needs not our genetic needs. (instinct gives the desire to mate, culture places the acceptable behaviour to do so)

Tolerating racisim and bigotry, by not getting involved in it's demise is to support racism and bigotry. Those who support racism and bigotry in this manner are the hidden enemy.




Most criminologists would disagree with you. Non-Whites purpetuate far too many crimes in proportion to their numbers as a percentage of the overall population. Most people in the USA know this. But we must be quiet about it. If we just ignore the problem it will go away!

Shush now............. Just blame it on White racism, simpleton.


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