JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum CD Duplicators ?

Does anyone have a reliable CD duplicator that doesn’t charge an arm and a leg they can recommend? We’re located in San Diego California and looking to press 1,000 CD’s with the following: 1-3 color silk-screen printing on disc, 4 panel 4/1 folded insert, 4/1 tray card, standard jewel case with clear tray and shrink wrap, glass mastering, all film outputs, and retail ready bar code. The company we used last year is out of business.

Please help.!.!

Contact Morris Beegle at Hapi Skratch Records
http://www.hapiskratch.com
info@hapiskratch.com
tell him Bobby Bensley sent you, he will take real good care of you and return a high quality product to you at a very reasonable price and turn around time will surprise you.

I have worked with him on many CD projects and would recommend him to anyone looking for replication.

Peace,
Bobby Bensley Deal

I've had good luck in the past with The Gate, I believe they are here:

http://www.gatemedia.com

Good folks there, and I think they're in your area...

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Shandy Lawson

Folk-noir Ballads and Acoustic Brawls
http://www.shandylawson.com

Hi,

Not only do I have music available for sale with Springbound Music as "burn on demand" product....but I also ordered my glass mastered and printed CDs through them too. Very good price: www.springbound.com

If you don't need glass masters..then Tape Complex in MASS has good prices.

Just a word of advice though....if you're going for any radio play at all, buy glass. There are some stations that won't play CDRs.

Also, don't go for digi-packs if you want radio play too. They get thrown out since they don't fit correctly into some CD racks!

Peace,
Christine
The Drop Band
www.dropband.com

Okay - not to sound stupid - but what is "glass"? Is there a huge cost difference?? Can any of you give cost estimates for runs of 1,000 - from your perspective and actual final cost to you, not the prices listed on the sites because there are always "extras"? I'll check out the websites listed, but I'm curious about cost to produce an indie CD. I have several songs that I've written in addition to some that friends have written....not sure if I could afford it (and not sure that I can afford not to)....??

I have not talked to Morris in a couple months but the last I did with him ran about $1,149.00 plus about $75.00 shiping which varies depending where you are. Hapi Skratch is in Colorado but having seen better then 100 projects that he has replicated for various bands I have worked with I know his product to be top shelf.

A glass master is the final product that produces the "Glass Mother" or stamper which is used as the master for your CDs.

The complete process requires many steps. What many people don't realize is that Replicated CDs (those which are made from a glass master are actually stamped into the poly carbonate. Duplicated CD-rs are burned by a laser. While burning gives you an exact copy in theroy the reality is that there are many bits of info that get lost in the process and quality can vary radically from one disk to the next.

The glass master insures that CD 10,000 in the run sounds exactly the same as CD 2.

It is possible to get CDs replicated at less then a buck a piece on an order of 1000 but the truth is even then there will be hidden costs like film output and or shipping.

There are many reputable replicators out there but typically the true replicator won't deal directly with the aritst. Instead you have to go through a broker.

Having spent a fair amount of time working in the replication business I would strongly recommend checking out multiple sources and would warn against jumping on the loball price.

Peace,
Bobby

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Bobby Bensley
CMAP Music International


<IMG SRC=\"http://cmapmusic.com/images/gateway.jpg\">

I suggest giving both of the companies who have supported Just Plain Folks a shot as well. Disc Makers and Oasis CD Duplication have sponsored our music awards the last 2 years and are far and away the 2 most popular CD Duplicators among our entire membership and the grassroots music community. Both scored 10 times more endorsements than any other duplicator among our members in the survey last year.
Both have special packages right now for around $1000.00 for 1000.00 CD's. Depending on what you can supply, and what that packaging includes, you may need to pay more... but my guess is that it wouldn't be more than $1500 which Bobby is suggesting. (By the way, Morris Beegle is a JPFolks member and his brother won the award for best cover song at the awards this year.. I wasn't even aware he offered duplication services.. this is the first I have heard about that.)

visit: www.discmakers.com
visit: www.oasiscd.com

Our other allies (Muses Muse, TAXI, CDBaby, Star Polish, Indie-Music etc.. also endorse one or both of these companies!) Another cool benefit (and both companies offer lots of extras) is that you automatically get signed up for CDBaby (i.e. they pay the fee on your behalf). So please check them out and tell them that Brian at JPFolks sent you!

Brian

Thanks Brian! And Bobby. Brian, I had previously checked out Discmakers and Oasis just sent me some samples. Do they both use these "glass" masters? I want a finished product that can be sold at Tower Records, Barnes & Noble, etc., and that's why I started with Discmakers and Oasis - they were recommended by the stores for short runs.....The glass master thing just confused me.

Chris,

I am not an expert on this. I suggest you ask both of them. They both to top notch work, so if anyone is suited to make short run product for major release, these guys are. Both have 800 numbers and both should be open by now (they're on the East coast).

Tell em Just Plain Folks sent you.

Brian

I will. Thanks again for your help. I never fail to find new info on this board about something......Hopefully I'll have the project done in time to submit for the next JPF awards....

Oasis did right by me. Check the costs - they're on the right coast.

Oops, I meant to say SHIPPING costs.

Bruce

[This message has been edited by Bruce Goldish (edited 03-21-2003).]

Brian, yea Morris has been offering Replication services via Hapi Slratch Records for several years. His brother Dave Beegle is by far one of the most talented guitarists I have ever had the pleasure of working with or even heard for that matter.

If you have ever had the opportunity to attend a live Dave Beegle show you know what I mean, there really are few players of his caliber in the world.

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Bobby Bensley
CMAP Music International


<IMG SRC=\"http://cmapmusic.com/images/gateway.jpg\">

Sorry for the delay but I have been out of town working with the band W!CK. Thanks to everyone that has posted to my question. I have been in touch with over 30 duplicators and totally understand the confusion bands and indie labels have finding a duplicator. All of the extra cost are crazy.

I am finding that the big guns (Disc Makers and Oasis) are competitive with tons of extras, but most of the extras W!CK has already been a part of (i.e.: CDbaby, ect..)

Going to check out your suggestions and post what is working best for us.

Thanks again for all of your help. I love this site and everything it represents.

Brian
Cleo Entertainment Management
http://www.thebandwick.com

Brian, if I can help in any way let me know, I have worked in the replication buisness and may be able to offer some tips to save some money here and there. I also know several reputable brokers should one of the ones already suggessted not be able to deliver what you need.

When it comes to extras beaware that they are never FREE. Not even when they say they are. They are added incentives meant to make you feel like you are getting a special deal but nothing in this business is ever free, it is always worked into the totaql cost of the package.

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Bobby Bensley
CMAP Music International


<IMG SRC=\"http://cmapmusic.com/images/gateway.jpg\">

Bobby,

I am aware of your background.. hahaha.. let's just leave it at that. (not a negative.. just a shared inside piece of knowledge between Bobby and myself).

I think one of the benefits to using Disc Makers or Oasis CD is that both are reputable, both know what they are doing and a lot of respected people support and endorse both. They aren't always the cheapest options.. but do people really buy the cheapest clothing, cheapest car (like a Yugo?)... etc... would you shop around for the cheapest doctor to operate on you? I am all for doing things in a cost effective way.. but if one of the respected companies who offer tons of extras (and they do offer extras that are included in the stated package price.. not add ons later)is slightly more than an unproven company... I say you owe it to your music to consider spending a little more to get the security. And in some cases, both of these companies are less than others. Disc Makers used to be the most expensive.. but they've dropped their prices a great deal recently.. Oasis CD has always been cost effective in pricing. I wouldn't endorse either company if I wasn't sure they would do a great job and also wasn't sure they would make good on any problems.

When we survey members each year, those two companies are the only ones that score more than 1 percent of the results. Out of nearly 2000 people who took the survey, the third place company only got about a dozen votes. The majority of people said they didn't have any idea who they would use. I think it's important for us to have these types of discussions to at least give our folks a trustworthy starting point. If you find a deal better than Oasis and Disc Makers, great. But at least you can trust both of those companies as your starting point and comparison. And price should NOT be your only guiding factor. I have heard all sorts of horror stories of bad sounding CD's.. lots of defective CD's.. the graphics being messed up.. extremely late delivery of Cd's so that artists missed their CD Release party dates.. etc.. There's more to this than just price per CD. Do your homework. If you find a great alternative duplication company, let us know.

Thanks to those who are commenting!

Brian

Brian, I am not trying to talk the members here out of supporting the big 2. I am only sharing my first hand knowledge that there are a lot of other equally qualified and reputable brokers out there. They all use the same 2 or 3 replication houses so the real differences come down to product support.

No need to hide from anyone my background. I managed A&R and CD Replication services for JavaMusic.com for a year or so. Their product and price was good, in the end their customer service and overall business sense and ethic proved to be less then stellar. As a result I severed all ties with Java nearly a year ago. I have nothing to gain, not even a 5% brokers kickback by offering my knowledge here. I only offer it because an artist somewhere may find a value in it. Despite my time at Javamusic my experience with the industry there and elsewhere, has taught me things that can be valuable to artists so I share it.

Bells and whistles can be nice and Oasis and Disk Makers have plenty of them to go around for sure. I repeat though that Bells and Whistles are never free. They may occasionally be a loss leader but they are almost always made up for in an inflated charge elsewhere in a package deal. Retailers do it all the time; they mark a product up 30% above normal shelf price, and then advertise a 25% discount sale on it. While the 25% looks and sounds good and brings shoppers running to the registers the truth is the store is making an additional 5% on the product.

However what the poster of this thread asked for was a recommendation of a CD replication company that offers quality without a name brand price or a bunch of added bells and whistles.



In my eyes the opening question would instantly eliminate both Oasis and Disk Makers. It is true that they include extras that are part of their base price, which is part of why their base price is higher then most. For the artist seeking a bargain on a bare bones package there are many options out there that offer the exact same level of product quality at a reasonable price point.

The truth and I know you don't want me to say it but I am going to anyways is that" buying Oasis and or Disk Makers is like buying Name Brand Nyquil over the comparable private label product. When you read the formulas you see that you are getting the exact same product, then a little research will tell you that both products are manufactured in the same plant and at times even come from the same batch vat. The only difference is in the name put on the packaging before it goes out the door. Nyquil sells at $5.00 + a bottle when the same stuff in the private label package sells for $2.50 per bottle. Both will equally relive your cold symptoms because they are the same product.

Anytime you poll a general populace about a product the name brands will always come out on top. Name recognition is why they are the name brands. Just because they are the known name does not mean they automatically are the best value for the dollar. I can buy a Mister Coffee Maker in Walmart for $24.99 or I can buy the same make model and color in Kohl’s Department Store for $49.95. Does buying it at a higher price from a name brand department make it a better product?

Dollars are hard to come buy for most Indie artists. I hate to see them spend the money they do have available to them to record, produce, manufacture and distribute their music unwisely. Education and research are a huge part of the battle in meeting your needs without overextending the budget. If I can help an artist by sharing with them the results of my research and experience then I feel it is my duty to do so. Today, I don’t have to rely on sponsorships from manufactures to carry out my projects so I don’t have to place loyalty with them unless they give me a real reason to do so.

Peace,
Bobby

Bobby, For you to suggest our endorsement is simply bought and paid for is both insulting and wrong. But then you've incorrectly questioned our integrity before haven't you? Remember? I have your apology from the last time still on file. It was back when you wrongfully claimed we wouldn't let you become a member of this group because of who you worked for. What we DID do was warn you that there was a bad history between us and your employer, but rather than us slamming them, I said you should talk to your boss about it so you were informed. You came back and slammed us for not letting you join our membership. But it wasn't true was it?

You are JUST as wrong this time. We've endorsed both Disc Makers and Oasis CD Duplication for the last 4.5 years starting in 1998. For the 2001 Oasis did sponsor our music awards (they paid for the cost of our trophies). Disc Makers paid for the cost of the 2002 Trophies. But we have endorsed both companies before and after their sponsorships. Our members have also voted both companies #1 and #2 as their choices for duplication. Both companies have buried all other companies competing with them in the opinions of our membership. No other company has ever gotten more than 1%.

This year, with nearly 2000 respondents, the third place company only got 12 votes. The 5th place company got 7. In 4.5 years, I have never received 1 single complaint about the service or quality of either of these companies. That by itself is amazing. These guys do a LOT of CDs. There are a LOT of complainers out there. But no one has ever come to me and said either company messed up their project and didn't make good. That's a pretty good track record. I get complaints about all sorts of companies daily. (Including several about your former company, which is why I gave you that warning).

I have previously gotten feedback that each were priced too high for someone to use, particularly with Disc Makers. That's fine. Quality companies rarely compete to be the cheapest. #1 artists don't work for minimum wage either unless they are really stupid. There's very little extra support or follow up you can offer if you are barely breaking even in the cost of doing the work.

I still shared this pricing concern with both of these companies. And both have offered some really low cost packages for the budget minded artists. Both companies are also offering smaller and smaller run packages that aren't CDR's. Each company seems responsive to their customer base, which is a big part of the reason they are the leading companies in their field.

As someone with 12 years of experience with some of the most successful retailers in world history, I understand loss leaders and added value stuff. For the most part, it's a great thing for consumers. Why not take something extra for the same cost as not getting something extra from someone else? If the cost is more, then you make up your mind if the extras are worth the extra cost.

An example of a company which isn't the cheapest but is by FAR the best is CDBaby. Derek intentionally chose not to be cheapest. Would you or anyone question it's not worth paying a little extra for their service and expertise in what they do? You'd be a fool if you did. No one else in the industry is in their league.. but there ARE cheaper places where you can post and sell your CD. Big deal.

And finally, even though people here suggested companies we haven't dealt with and who obviously haven't sponsored our group, did we remove their links? Did we tell people not to use them? No. We did suggest that folks use one or both of these companies as a benchmark in their search because they are both proven to be reliable and trustworthy. And your Wal-Mart analogy is as weak as the rest of your post. Wal-Mart IS the name brand. They are the biggest and guess what? They are the cheapest and most reliable as well. Why do you have a problem thinking that the two leading duplication companies can't be the same?

Next time you want to question my or Just Plain Folks integrity, please do a little homework first. Perhaps if you had done some homework on your last employer beforehand you wouldn't have had a bad experience with them right? I did and I avoided them. I took the time to do the homework. Give it a try sometime. Otherwise, please start your own organization and then you can endorse anyone based on any criteria you please.

Brian

Brian, excuse me, I did not mean to imply that JPF's endorsment of the big 2 or any company for that matter was bought and paid for. I guess my wording was not clear. The point I was trying to make was that "I" have no affiliations today that would influeance an endorsment from "ME" No insult was intended. Time has shown me that JPF is a solid community and I enjoy coming here and sharing with the members here.

As far as the rest of your post, I will respond to it tonight if the need exists. I have not yet read it all and am on my way out the door for the day.

Again, I was only trying to say that I have no personal loyalties to any of the companies I was or might recommend and no offense to you or JPF was intended.

ok Brian I read the rest. I retract and simply say **** you and your big white horse.

I'm out of here.

WOW!!!!!! Looks like I have sparked something........

Just to update you...

Disc Makers cost and Oasis cost are competitive but yet still higher than others. Totally understand what both Brian and Bobby are talking about regarding that the best is not always the cheapest.

Our company worked with BJM duplication in North Hollywood last year and it was a disaster. They we cheap, and promised a 7 to 10 day turnaround. There promise was false. The CD's took over 3 months to get, numerous runs of the CD had to be redone due to faulty CD's (Not to mention 4 glass masters), and they messed up the artwork so bad that we had to outsource the artwork and also have that reprinted (cost, cost, cost). Bottom line is that the CD's cost us 100.00 less than Oasis had quoted us. The loss of time and aggravation cost W!CK distribution placement in retail across the country and blemished our management reputation.

Have found another company Groove House Records. Anyone ever worked with them? They offer a similar package (Oasis and Disc Masters) at a much lower cost. Not sure who we are going yet, but will update you as we progress.

Thanks to everyone for their input.


Brian
Assistant Manager
Cleo Entertainment Management Inc.
http://www.thebandwick.com

Brian,

You're a perfect example of my point in reality. Cheaper can often cost you a lot more. Are there other companies that do good work than the 2 leading companies? Sure. But if you don't know if the one you talked to is one of them, then $100 dollars is not much to pay to be sure you'll get a great product from a reliable company.

Your experience is exactly why it's important to have some benchmark companies to compare everyone else to. If you know you'll get a great deal and product from Oasis CD Duplication and/or Disc Makers for X amount.. you can make good decisions when shopping around. I bet you wish you had spent $100 more and gone with Oasis right? Hopefully others, with this info, can avoid what happened to you.

As for Bobby.. you brought the past out and you questioned our integrity with your post. When you do that, you should be prepared for the appropriate response, which I gave. I tried to leave your past problems in the past.. you brought it back up. I didn't come to your site and question your integrity. If that is what you are really all about, you won't be missed.

Brian

Brain,

As always you made a great point. The only reason we are looking at other companies besides Oasis and Disc Makers is to exhaust all options.

Just thought we might be able to find a reputable company that does equal work as the two big guys (without all the extra promotional stuff). And since I am pretty new to the management situation, I thought I would look to the people at JPFolks for some help. I for sure didn’t want to start up any kind of crap on the net.


Oh yea....... There is no doubt that we would have had W!CK use a different duplicator on last years project if we had any knowledge that it wasn’t honestly going to save the band any money. As with most artist, they are on a tight budget and were trying to get the best bang for their buck. Totally backfired last year. Trying not to make the same mistake on their new CD. I don’t want to loose my job for not researching, if you know what I mean

Will keep everyone updated. Totally appreciate your honesty.


Brian
Assistant Manager
Cleo Entertainment Management Inc.
http://www.thebandwick.com

Brian W, I did not call you or the past out, you brought the past out. My simple presence here should speak volumes about what I had done with the past in my mind. I have come to this community several times and given freely to it many hours of my time and effort and never asked for anything from you or the community. I have brought opportunities to the table for the artists of this community and been utterly open and honest with them. I have even gone out of my own pocket and bought print advertising to promote the CDs of artists in this community with absolutely nothing to be gained personally by me for the effort. It is true I was misled by my former employer, when the error was made clear to me I did apologize to you as you already noted. The idea that you can’t let go of the past is an issue that you need to deal with personally, I let it go a long time ago.

I did not question your integrity, as stated earlier I was trying to make clear the point that I had no vested interest in promoting one company over the other. Perhaps though it is 5% of your own conscious speaking to you that made you think I was questioning your integrity.

See it how you will I did not bring the past out you did as soon as I posted someone’s name other then Disk Makers or Oasis. Even though by your own admission that other small replicator is also a member of JPF.

I would not have given my nod to him if I did not know from first hand experience that he delivers the same level of benchmark service as the big boys. Competitive pricing, quality product and 98% 10 day turn around.

Quite honestly based on my last interaction with Morris his pricing was slightly better, his extras, quality and service were equal to the biggies and in short he appeared to me to be the perfect match to what Brian was asking about.

Having known Morris personally for many years and knowing at least 100 different artists who have dealt with him I was comfortable recommending him and for the record he does not run a referral program and I have zilch to gain by pointing people to him or Brad at Planet Media or Even Darius at http://www.enginedisc.com Can you say the same about yourself, Oasis and Disk Makers?

Bobby

Bobby,

I didn't mention the company you used to work for. You did. Remember? "No need to hide my from anyone my background" ? Do you read your own posts?

You previously questioned our integrity about allowing you to be a member here when you were working for a company with a really bad reputation. And you were 100% wrong and admitted it. Good for you. But you still questioned us without doing your homework.

Also, you misstated the facts. You said the question "Does anyone have a reliable CD duplicator that doesn't charge an arm and a leg they can recommend?" instantly (your word) eliminated Oasis and Disc Makers. This is not true. Why are you giving out bad information? How is $1000 for 1000 CD's charging an arm and a leg? Both of those companies have that program for people with very small budgets. You're misleading people. Or were you suggesting they weren't reliable? Either way.. you're wrong.

As for letting go of something.. keep in mind you previously questioned our integrity and were proven wrong. Not the other way around. Then you do it again with this statement.

"Today, I don't have to rely on sponsorships from manufactures to carry out my projects so I don't have to place loyalty with them unless they give me a real reason to do so."

The only logical response to this could be "as opposed to who?" posting here? The inference was pretty obvious. Since we had suggested using two companies which you already are misleading people about, who else in this post could you be talking about? Don't insult our intelligence by playing dumb with your own statement. It clearly aims to differentiate you from someone who places loyalty to a company because of sponsorship. Cut me a break. At least have the balls to stand behind your own comments.

Then you challenge us again:

"Having known Morris personally for many years and knowing at least 100 different artists who have dealt with him I was comfortable recommending him and for the record he does not run a referral program and I have zilch to gain by pointing people to him or Brad at Planet Media or Even Darius at http://www.enginedisc.com Can you say the same about yourself, Oasis and Disk Makers?"

Gee.. I suppose this comment wasn't directed at me either eh? (by the way.. it's Disc Makers... )

Yes, I can say the same thing. I don't ask for, accept or have anything to do with referrals or commissions of any type from anyone from any company for any reason. Period. Obviously you are STILL questioning my integrity here, because if I did take referrals, that would be pitching something simply so I could make money from it and would violate the trust I have built up with our members. You see, my endorsement is not bought and paid for. How many times do you have to be told the truth until you can understand it and accept it?

Bobby, when you've spent 5 years working to support a community that you built from scratch that is now over 21,000 musicians and artists and industry professionals without ever cashing in on it, without ever abusing it or taking advantage of the members or even charging them a dime for anything, then perhaps you'll have the credibility to question my honesty and integrity. Until then, you sound like a disgruntled outsider desperate to make yourself look better by tearing down others. How's that working for you?

We welcomed you into our group even though you were working for some questionable people doing questionable things. We've done nothing against you, even though you've attacked and questioned my integrity in the past. How many times do you have be proven wrong before you'll stop?

Once more for the record: There's no hidden agenda. No secret business dealings. No one has been bought and paid for on our staff at any level. Everyone, including myself, does work here because we want to help our community. If a company we believe in wants to help cover the costs of a program, then we are greatful for their support and certainly want to be sure our members know who it was who helped pay the expenses so they didn't have to. Even in those cases, we simply give acknowledgement or supply information. We don't make sales pitches. In fact, our community partners are so good, we really don't need to. They sell themselves through their great track records and work. Enlightened companies know that the existance of support organizations like Just Plain Folks (and I am not sure if I know of anyone else quite like us) are good for their business. A healthy industry means a larger pie for everyone to share in. And our main goal is to make our growing community as healthy as it can be. All of our community partners benefit from our success and we benefit from theirs. Yes, it really can work that way.

Disc Makers and Oasis CD Duplication both do great work. They are honest companies with a huge resume of happy customers, numbering in the thousands just among our membership alone. They will do the job they promise and make right any problems that come up in the normal course of business. Neither will likely be the cheapest possible option, but I still say that it's worth more money for quality and reliability and the many extras that both companies offer and both companies offer some rock bottom no frills packages for folks who simply can't pay a dime more.

If someone is coming to OUR site (you remember.. Just Plain Folks... not Bobby Bensley's site) we are only going to endorse companies we have first hand knowledge of and believe in. Of all the duplication companies we've had various dealings with, these are the two best by a large margin. Our members who have used them state it by a large margin. Our other community partners all endorse them as well and we put a lot of credibility in what type of company or friends and those we respect the most in the industry keep. And our own experience has been positive with both companies.

As for Morris and Hapiscratch, in all the times we've corresponded, we've always talked about his label artists (which I like many of) and he's never mentioned duplication services to me. So, even though he seems to be a great guy, I can't endorse a service I have no knowledge of. That's how endorsements are supposed to work. And that's how we give them out.

Brian