JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum ai Tip

Or really songwriting tip.

Many years ago I read that Bob Seger writes songs backwards ...chorus, or hook first, then works backwards trying for a verse etc.

I ve been doing that ever since, writing from hooks and one word even.

Udio, or suno allows you to do this too. If you have your chorus, and it's not kicking the way you want, enter the chorus first. You almost always get a better chorus this way, and it will find a way to build into the chorus.

Very cool that it can work this way

A high percentage of my songs are written that way. Get a good chorus and then write verses to lead into the chorus. The chorus is the most important part of the song anyway.

Yes agreed. It can sometimes be tough leading into it backwards though.

Many times I'll say...hmm what a great chorus, but can't get to it. Then I end up with the original verse and a chorus that can't be joined lol.

I'd say over the years it's gotten easier though. You definitely end up with a better chorus in the end

I'm not sure that is uncommon. Most songs are started with a chorus line/hook line idea. I am not sure I have ever written a song starting with the first line of a verse, maybe, but can't recall one. I sometimes write my best hooks in the pre chorus, then resolve to a more general line in the chorus. I use bridges to summarize and resolve the story or fast forward to the future if it is a story song. The other most common thing is a musical part or complete music track. I will often sing nonsense lyrics (or non descript non words and I find it interesting that in Version 4.5 on Suno they now do that if you upload a music track minus lyrics but with enough musical arrangement to pick out the melody. It is really good at picking out an inferred melody in a music track without a note for note melody spelled out. Most music tracks do not mirror the melody line. But it has nailed exact melodies from other versions of a song in progress. It's pretty intuitive. It is all about predicting the next note, just like language models predict the next word. I find it is either really accurate or it simply never gets close. I have uploaded really complex tracks and it has lifted it all perfectly, then in other cases where there is just basic info it just can't do it. I have blown 100s of attempts on some songs to strike out anything even close. Sometimes it spits back a polished version note for note of what when in, just sonically improved. I don't mind have it do a cover of something like a live band doing a version of your song, but it would be nice to get it exactly right on the money too. It now does live performances (even with crowd noise) pretty well, but at random times. If you try to FORCE it to give you audience sounds or reactions it almost never does it, but sometimes it will just decide this is a live track and match it.

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