JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Do You Know Where You're Going To?

Hi everyone!

This thought has been on my mind for a while.

When you set out to write a Song,
Do you have a clear and distinct direction for it?
Do you have an defining destination you want your Listeners to arrive at?

How do you stop yourself from wandering aimlessly?
Are their any tips you find yourself utilizing?

for example

I think keeping a solid form or structure is really important.
I try to remind myself of the proper function of each section in
a Song.

For example:
Like the first verse

Establishing the Who, What, When, Where

The Chorus the Big Idea/Concept

Bridge- The Final Argument or adding New relevant information-or Surprise.

Any thoughts?
-Dana

Hi Dana!

As in department stores having a lot of clothes, we all have a lot of options for every second of a new song.

If just playing, and I find something that is "new to me" in some way, I just walk along the song isles and combine this or that as that song dictates. Like finding a good outfit starting with a shirt, then on to the pants, to the sox, to the shoes, to the jacket if needed. All were selected from what was selected before it. With so many options of sounds in my head, and as my fingers explore around the keys, once they see that complimentary shirt, pants, sox, shoes and jacket,,,,then the song is usually NICE, to me anyway.

Once in a while, a song will come to me in the seconds before playing it, with every section pre-written in my head, and me then simply, (and with a lot of FUN, knowing what it's all going to sound like), finding that specific shirt, pants, sox, shoes and jacket.

Thanks again!

Good Evenin' Brother Dana!!!

Read Your Header..thought "Hmm..Diana Ross has ALREADY Sung That Line"..heh..(& then felt kinda-elderly..when I got here to read your thread...) ;-)>

Most of the time, a Hook flies-in, & more-or-less Frames all that comes-Next. They're like the spark that sets off my Writing Cannon. (But..not-always...HAVE occasionally started writing sans-hook, and it pops-out as the lyric continues.)

I'll agree witcha on the need for a BIG IDEA in the Chorus..which IS where most times that Hook had better-be. & more-than-once, if at all possible. The More-MEMORABLE, Probably the Better it IS for Folks to remember it come buying-time.

As for "Destination"...I'm usually more interested in "The Journey"...(Is it Fun-&-Entertaining"..Is it DIFFERENT-Enough from all the Other Stuff that's Out-There?)

Here's an Example:

While listening to an old INXS CD, I heard the phrase "Sweet Anticipation". "Perfect as a HOOK" said my always Open Ears.

Haven't penned it yet...tho I'll be setting it up as one of those "Remember-When" as well as "HMMMM..The Weekend IS Coming" sort of pieces.

It prolly WILL "Wander (a bit) Aimlessly"..to capture many a memory in the General Audience's Mind...

Destination-Wise, it's mostly a Feel-Good piece/so-far..in my mind's-eye. Bridge might just be some Music... (They don't ALL have to have Add'l Thoughts when a song's Working-Well...)

I DO have a Journalism Background..& the WWWWW & H certainly Enhance Most-Any Lyric...(& Yeah, DO like it when there's lyric & time-enough to pop-'em-all-in)...but many's the time I hear a hit that's hardly got any in... If it "Connects"..I'm content.

Folks were picking on Rhianna's "Like Diamonds in the Sky" the other day... Heard maybe 10 seconds of it on the Air yesterday...&..it "Connected" in less than 5... Quite-Memorable, Warts-&-All... ;-)>

Sooo...While I Generally Agree WitCha...there are a LOT of current Hits that don't follow many "Rules"...& a fair share of Older Hits, as-well.

Best Wishes & a Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

Tonite I'll be going to sleep
Tomorrow I'll be going to work
When I die I'll be going to heaven
After dinner I might go for dessert

As far as writing, my songs are like organic chickens....they're free range. It all starts somewhere, somehow but they take on their own life form in a natural free flowing fashion and seem to wind up kind of making sense (though some may argue that).

There are some songs that come uninvited (but they are always welcome) and there are the challenges given on the challenge board which I enjoy replying to. There was a wedding song that I truly purposed to write. I always liked the simple wedding rhyme of "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue" and I made up my mind to write a lyric incorporating each item while making sure they also appeared chronologically in order as in the rhyme and it thankfully worked out. It's on my soundclick site.

I don't feel like I'm thinking hard when I write. I remember a couple times when I snow skied and water skied. If I thought too hard about it, I'd fall over and over, but when I let go and didn't over think it, I'd get up and stay up. I didn't say I was good, mind you, but I could do it. When I'm writing a short poem, jingle or full lyric I am in a zone and it's honestly a real high while I'm there.

DANA--

A LYRIC WRITER IS LIKE A PHOTOGRAPHER, WHO PREVISUALIZES A SERIES OF STILL SHOTS, THAT TELL HIS STORY--MORE PICTURES ARE TAKEN THAN ARE NEEDED TO PRESENT THE STORY, AND MANY DON’T MAKE THE FINAL SELECTION,

AS A SONG WRITER, HAVING BEEN IN PHOTOGRAPHY IN GRADUATE SCHOOL, I
TRY TO PREVISUALIZE A VIDEO OF MY WORKING STORY, IN MY MIND--WITH MY EYES CLOSED, I ASSEMBLE CONVERSATIONAL PARTS OF THE STORY WITH WORDS INSTEAD OF PHOTOS--SORTING THROUGH THEM BY TRIAL AND ERROR, TRY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES TO MAKE THE EVENTUAL SONG BE INTERESTING ENOUGH, FOR OTHERS TO RELIVE THE PRESENTATION--USING MY LIFE AND OTHERS’ EXPERIENCES AS GUIDE LINES--OF COURSE, THE RULES OF WRITING ARE A GUIDE--AND I AM DRIVEN BY INSPIRATION FROM ALL SORTS OF IDEAS, HAVING BEEN AT THE TASK FOR 40-50 YEARS--I’M STILL OPEN TO FIND NEW AND INTERESTING THINGS, TO STIR MY IMAGINATION!

MOST WRITERS WILL FIND SOME NITCH THAT WORKS FOR THEM--LOVE, BLUES, COWBOY, AND LOTS OF SAD SONGS EXCITE ME--I’M ALWAYS INJECTING AS MUCH TRUTH WITH FICTION TO KEEP THE STORY BELIEVABLE!

I WRITE EVERY DAY--I HAVE A WORKING FOLDER WITH AT LEAST 15-20 STARTED LYRICS AND/OR SONGS--SOME SONGS CHANGE AS TIME PASSES I KEEP THEM CURRENT IF NEED BE--

NONE OF MY SONGS OR LYRICS ARE CHISELED IN STONE.

WRITE ON--

Mackie

I'd say I know where I'm going once I'm about half way there,
which only occurs if I were lucky enough to point myself in
the right direction in the first place.


Pat Hardy Lockwood

Hi Guys,

I had a response for each of your posts, I'm not sure where it went.lol
I notice Markeboy(Whoever that was)is also removed.
Maybe it was DRS at it again. lol

Hi Johnny, I really enjoyed reading your response, very creative!
I imagine if we were allowed to access to your brain during the process we would find ourselves at Disney Land!

Stan! Brother!!

Like you I tend to start off with the hook/chorus or title!
Now, I'm starting to think about the overall message I want to convey before I even start to write.
Yes, you are quite correct about the Diana Ross Song Title!
I wanted to find a fun way to phrase my question lol
I love that Song!
Thinking in broader concepts and targeting specific Artists.
Yup, that Diamond song is Still stuck in my head!
It only took five seconds to connect with you so, they must know something about writing a Hit song and what makes it work:)
Thanks for posting!

Hi Lynn!

"As far as writing, my songs are like organic chickens....they're free range."

That has got to be one of the coolest responses ,love it!
I'll have to drop in on your soundclick page and take a listen sometime.
Thanks for responding in the way only you could:=)


Makie!

This comment about you is really awesome. Never looked at it in quite this way, it makes perfect sense:)
LOve this!
Thank you for that!

"A LYRIC WRITER IS LIKE A PHOTOGRAPHER, WHO PREVISUALIZES A SERIES OF STILL SHOTS, THAT TELL HIS STORY--MORE PICTURES ARE TAKEN THAN ARE NEEDED TO PRESENT THE STORY, AND MANY DON’T MAKE THE FINAL SELECTION,"

Hi Pat! Too funny=) thanks for responding!-Dana

Mostly what fits in the music, and whatever topic is on my mind where I pluck a useful hook line out of the topic or story or mood I want to feature. It's funny.. for me the music comes easiest first, but if I see a lyric or write one, I rarely have any trouble coming up with a melody for it... I usually never think about form or structure until I finish the majority of the final words and then I tighten up the edges that stick out. I think writing to fit a form or rules would be hard to do for me. I have too many ideas bursting out to hold them back while I check rules and formats out. I also collect pieces of songs until I find ones that I can connect together like lego bricks.

Brian

I normally think of a song I like. I take the general feel, and compose the music first. I get a groove or tempo from something that has been a hit. After, I will compose lyrics, and as I write, I always play my Acoustic. If the meter of the words can't fit the groove, I'll find the appropriate number of syllables to make the song work. The lyrics for me come easy, i write most things in an hour or less. For me it's just as important that the music is as relevant as the lyrics. You ask many great questions. Merry christmas-Bobby

Hi Brian,

"I usually never think about form or structure until I finish the majority of the final words and then I tighten up the edges that stick out. I think writing to fit a form or rules would be hard to do for me. I have too many ideas bursting out to hold them back while I check rules and formats out. I also collect pieces of songs until I find ones that I can connect together like lego bricks."

Because I aim for the commercial aspect it helps for me to write
within the

verse chorus verse chorus
or verse chorus verse chorus bridge

I don't play an instrument, so I can see how someone who does could feel boxed in or restricted.
btw Brian, what Instrument/s do you play or prefer writing from?

Hi Bobby,

I've heard your approach can be good way to get a song started especially if you are not feeling inspired=)
I think it also helps you stay relevant in the market you are aiming for.
I think this approach can really go a long way in sharpening your skills, whether it's by yourself or co-writing.
Thanks so much for posting and Merry Christmas to you also!-Dana