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Luck is when preparation meets opportunity..

Well said Bob!

John

When I go to a networking event, it's not luck that I meet someone there that can either help me, or I can help them. That's making a determined effort to get out and go meet people. That is a goal.

Goals put into action have one of two outcomes. 1. It can fail. 2. It can succeed. It's not being unlucky to have it fail. It's not being lucky when it succeeds.

If you always have a goal, you'll always get one of two end results.

It wasn't luck that I wrote an awesome song. It was talent and good collaborative team effort. It wasn't luck that a band picked it up and recorded it. It was because the song was good enough and it was what they were looking for. It wasn't luck the band won a contest where the grand prize was to open for Jon Bon Jovi and perform in front of a sold out audience of 20,000+ people. It wasn't luck they chose to perform my song at that concert. It was because the song was good enough to make it part of their set. It wasn't luck that Bon Jovi and his brother loved my song. It was because the song was good enough to fit their taste and they recognized it for what it was. Luck had nothing to do with any of that. It isn't luck that I'm sharing the video of that performance with you. It's a choice I made to do so. Don't feel lucky that you get to watch it. It's because you have a computer and an internet connection that you're able to click the link and watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-66Ek_eecwA

Also, it wasn't luck or the lack of luck that the band broke up shortly after. It was bad management and inflated egos that split the band apart.

Here's a snippet of a recent newsletter, in which the concept between hobbyist, professional and journeyman are discussed.

"HOBBYIST

Thinks it's all about luck and life isn't fair.

PROFESSIONAL

Makes his own luck and isn't concerned with fairness."

While I don't believe in the 'luck' aspect, I think it can explain the differences of opinion we're getting here.

Gotta love Bob Lefsetz. :-)

I MUST BE JUST A HOBBYIST THEN.....despite the fact that I have made a good living from music for over forty years. I do believe that getting lucky is the major factor in any music career. I see people with more talent and who work harder than the "non lucky" people do.....YET despite all that they do not make it as big. Luck is the only difference between the two.
I have met a lot of top bill stars in my time and to a man they all agree that they were lucky in being in the right place at the right time and met the right people.
Rod Stewart would still be playing harmonica in a railway station if Long John Baldry had not spotted him there and helped him launch his career.
Jimi Hendrix would still be playing in obscure Greenwich bars if Chas Chandler had not spotted him, taken him to the UK and formed the Experience.
Yes they had talent but would still be relatively nowhere without getting lucky.

Bob Lefsetz’s erroneous quote explains nothing.

I sense there’s a misconception between the meaning of a professional and a hobbyist. A hobbyist is a person that does an activity for the love of it (in music, for the love of the art). A professional is one who seeks monetary success (may love the activity as well).

A hobbyist’s accomplishments can be as great (or greater) than a professional’s. The great Russian composer Alexander Borodin had a career as a doctor/chemist . He would be considered a music hobbyist since music was only his secondary vocation.

A professional doesn’t necessarily take the craft of music more seriously than the hobbyist. Just different goal oriented.

Talent and hard work doesn’t always equate to financial success. Of course there is an element of luck involved. There are only so many “cream of the crop” opportunities out there. And thousands of hardworking artists, songwriters, composers, producers, etc. are scratching and clawing for them. Not everyone will be rewarded appropriately, thus the element of luck is real.

John

Well said my point entirely. there is no such thing as making your own luck. You can do everything to try to help your career but to make it big you need a huge slice of luck....or a speed dial direct line to the connections necessary.
I watched a Tina Turner DVD where there was an interview with P.P. Arnold who was a former Ikette. Talking about when Tina broke up with Ike and Tina could not find work she said that you could be the best singer and entertainer in the world but without the right backing and management behind you, you could never make it in this business.

Fellas, I think Jody uses the terms professional and hobbyist to distinguish himself from those toiling in obscurity in the musical vineyards. As John points out, the difference between a pro and a hobbyist is one is making money at it and the other probably isn't.

John said "Talent and hard work doesn’t always equate to financial success. Of course there is an element of luck involved. There are only so many “cream of the crop” opportunities out there. And thousands of hardworking artists, songwriters, composers, producers, etc. are scratching and clawing for them. Not everyone will be rewarded appropriately, thus the element of luck is real."
I think that the opposite is also true in that many people without any apparent talent or hard work ethic still make it big.

Yes, luck definitely goes both ways Jim. More so for the latter.

John

I saw that Lefsetz article. I usually find concepts of "pros" vs. "hobbyists" are passed around by pros to make themselves feel better about their profession becoming more accessible to hobbyists.

I prefer Steven Pressfield's take:

How Pro Are You?
http://www.stevenpressfield.com/2012/12/how-pro-are-you/

I'm in the camp that doesn't believe in luck. Of the handful of full-time "professional" musicians I know, all of them have a common trait: perseverance. Not talent, not luck. Just a determination not to stop and to keep looking for the next opportunity.

Here is the newletter contents in its entirety on his comparisons between a hobbyist an a professional:


HOBBYIST

Pays for his equipment.

PROFESSIONAL

Gets it for free.

HOBBYIST

Earns his living outside music, his career is first, music is second.

PROFESSIONAL

First goal is to give up his day job, second goal is to make a lot of money.

JOURNEYMAN

A subset of professional. A journeyman just loves to play, get high, go on the road, experience the camaraderie.

STAR

Needs to dominate. Being a member of the group is not enough. If he or she can't make it to the very top, they're disappointed.

STAR

Knows he must be batting 1000 in at least one department. Must be able to sing, play or is beautiful. In a perfect world, all three. If you're not batting 1000 in one of these categories, either practice or admit you're a hobbyist.

JOURNEYMAN

If you want to play behind the best, your first skill must be networking. Your second skill must be the ability to get along. Your third must be your playing. If you get in the door and can't deliver musically, you're going to wash out. If you're a journeyman, practice is essential. You should never be the weak link. You should not only pick up where the front person is going, you should make him or her look better.

HOBBYIST

Has got no idea what it takes to make it. You can read "Billboard" and the rest of the trade magazines, they give you no idea how business is done, nor do any conferences or seminars illuminate the business fully. In order to know the business, you must know those in it. The music business is ruthless. Many want to be in it and it's almost impossible to stay in it. Before you decry the person at the top, investigate how he got there and how he stays there.

STAR

Long or short term? Short term...go on TV, although that paradigm is evaporating as I write this. "X Factor" is a nonstarter, the new "Idol" will be irrelevant and "The Voice" will crater soon, just like "Millionaire." Short term stars should think about getting out as soon as they get in. Become a movie star, tie in with the Fortune 500, you're running a business, credibility is irrelevant. If you're a long term star, your material is key, as is your credibility, think about tomorrow in every decision you make today.

HOBBYIST

Copies the riffs.

PROFESSIONAL

Creates the riffs.

HOBBYIST

Plays for money and complains the club owner is ripping him off.

PROFESSIONAL

Scalps his own tickets or keeps prices artificially low and employs paperless ticketing to get tickets in the hands of his fans.

HOBBYIST

Has no fans.

PROFESSIONAL

Relies on his fans. If your only fan is your label and radio, you're in trouble.

JOURNEYMAN

Might have a few fans in the audience, but his fans are the stars.

HOBBYIST

Buys off the rack.

PROFESSIONAL

Believes in customization.

HOBBYIST

Is all about the truth.

PROFESSIONAL

Never speaks the truth in public.

JOURNEYMAN

Only speaks the truth to other journeymen. Otherwise, his job is in jeopardy.

HOBBYIST

Will never become a professional. He's too wrapped up in his cocoon, he believes in safety, despite people telling him how good he is. It's a personal leap of faith to professionalism, and he's not willing to make it.

PROFESSIONAL

Exudes self-confidence. Is willing to risk everything to make it. Passion and desire are almost equal to talent.

HOBBYIST

Is afraid of getting screwed.

PROFESSIONAL

Has and will continue to get screwed until he becomes a superstar. If you haven't been screwed, you haven't made it.

JOURNEYMAN

Laughs about being screwed. His joy is in playing.

HOBBYIST

Has no manager.

PROFESSIONAL

Has a manager who is the secret to his success. Without a good manager, you've got no career.

JOURNEYMAN

Is his own manager. Nobody else cares that much.

HOBBYIST

Makes his records at home.

PROFESSIONAL

Makes his records in his engineer's home.

JOURNEYMAN

Makes his records at home.

HOBBYIST

Thinks it's all about luck and life isn't fair.

PROFESSIONAL

Makes his own luck and isn't concerned with fairness.

HOBBYIST

Has time to give his opinion.

PROFESSIONAL

Is too busy working to give an opinion.

HOBBYIST

Fields no offers. He creates demand.

PROFESSIONAL

Sifts through more offers as he gets more successful. Eventually gets to the point where he employs someone else to say no, so he doesn't look bad.

JOURNEYMAN

Is a juggler. He's thinking about not only this gig, but two down the line.

HOBBYIST

Is genuine all the time.

PROFESSIONAL

Is rarely genuine, he doesn't trust people and is wary of being stepped on, having his career thwarted.

HOBBYIST

Talks like he knows everybody.

PROFESSIONAL

Actually knows everybody.

HOBBYIST

Pays for his concert tickets.

PROFESSIONAL

Can always get in, can always pay, but usually is invited for free and rarely shows up.

HOBBYIST

No one cares if he's absent.

PROFESSIONAL

You feel his absence.

HOBBYIST

Sells crap. Stunned that the world doesn't stop and see its "greatness."

PROFESSIONAL

Doesn't go to market without an ace, a killer song or production.

HOBBYIST

Wastes time arguing.

PROFESSIONAL

Has got no time. If he hits a roadblock, he finds another way.

HOBBYIST

Is thrilled to be playing live anywhere.

PROFESSIONAL

Will not play unless you pay him, no matter what the promotional advantages or how good the cause is (unless it's a radio station show).

HOBBYIST

Can see today.

PROFESSIONAL

Can see tomorrow.

HOBBYIST

Is shocked that illicit favors have to be performed to get ahead.

PROFESSIONAL

Would blow anybody to get ahead, of either sex. It's his one and only life and one and only career, nothing's going to get in his way.


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Ha ha ha ha. Lefsetz appears to be a professional clown. Talk about a narcisstic, cynic. I assume most people read this guy for laughs. Madison Square Garden has what he would bill as an Amateur show tonight. Sold out! You might want to catch it on TV beginning at 7:30. I hear Sir Paul McCartney and dozens of other big name "amateurs" are playing! It's called the Concert for Sandy Relief.

In my opinion, a "Hobbyist" isn't necessarily an amateur. A "Hobbyist" to me is someone who isn't concerned about making music his/her primary source of income or primary profession. There are a TON of amazing musicians and artists out there who would fall into the "Hobbyist" category. On the other side of the coin, there are many who are "Professionals" (ie. their primary source of income is from music and performance), who shouldn't be called "Professionals" to begin with.

As for Bob Lefsetz's newsletter, it's hit or miss. Sometimes he's totally off his rocker and blogs about something so out in left field (or right field), that you might as well call it out of bounds...Sometimes, a blog post of Bob's is a homerun and should be well considered.

This one about "Hobbyists" & "Professionals" isn't really on the mark at all. He makes some valid points, but some of it is laughable as well.

Here's an exercise...Lets make a list of what qualifies as a "Hobbyist" and what qualifies as a "Professional". I would love to see what everyone's ideas on the subject are! How about it? Are you game?

Greg

A professional doesn't have to read or rely on another persons opinion to know where they stand.

Professional...one who's sole income is made by doing some job or activity where a qualification or degree of skill or expertise is required.
Semi professional...one who gets paid for a job or activity but does not rely on this as sole income.
Amateur...one who participates solely for enjoyment without wanting or receiving payment.
Hobbyist is a word that has come to mean an enthusiast or someone who pays to participate. They generally buy top of the range pro gear.....sometimes these people are seen as a cash cow by equipment suppliers and scam merchants.

It is worth repeating that a high degree of talent plus a determination and a hard work ethic or even a complete lack of any of these qualities can be demonstrated by anyone from the above categories.

Some guys who have dedicated their whole life to music and demonstrate exceptional talent go unnoticed whilst some tone deaf teenagers who wander in off the street to X factor receive great acclaim and can make obscene amounts of money. I am sorry but IMO the true meaning of Professionalism, talent, stardom, fame and fortune has gone out the window.

Big Jim,

Well said.

And Dan is putting words in my mouth. Thanks. I was relaying the words of another writer. Even Quoted it, however, I appreciate your inability to distinguish that. Especially based upon the whole concept of people thinking it's luck to make a living with music.

well, last year, 1/20th of my income came from gigs. But,
most of my income comes from photography, which is still
in the artistic arena, so I'm feelin' pretty good that I don't
have to work at some drudgery job. I have a couple of friends
who make a living at music, but only one makes it strictly from gigs,
the other two have small recording studios, and produce others music
for money, teach, etc.

Pat Hardy Lockwood

Jody anyone with talent and application CAN make a living from music. BUUUUUT....to make it big and get the well paid gigs luck is the main factor. With the best will in the world you need luck....and you cannot manufacture it yourself.
It is a well known fact that nepotism and the old pals act play a huge part in getting a break. That system aint gonna change anytime soon. Under your own steam you can only go so far.... to reach the next level you need luck and connections who can put you in front of the decision makers....These people are fickle and you need luck to rely on their whims.