JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business

This is a great article in the Nashville Music Guide, I think I've done more than half of these things

http://www.nashvillemusicguide.net/how-to-destroy-your-good-reputation-in-the-music-business/

Dear Mike

I read the article

Does this mean joining a Sex Pistols tribute band is a bad idea?

Tom

If you're well established you can probably break most of those rules.

LeeAnn Rimes hasn't really suffered too much.

But the Dixie Chicks suffered bad

Depends on the person I guess eh?

And that offering a Nude Skateboarding Tour of Music Row-while potentially lucrative in the short run-might not be career enhancing in the long run.?

Tom

I met Vinny a while back. Interesting article. But there is so much advice in Nashville, you basically have to ignore it all.
Jim

Yeah, Jim, I wish more people would ignore this advice...I'd get more work. LOL.

I wish I had more of a social life to embarass myself, and I wish someone cared if I did.
Chas

I kind of have to laugh when reading Vinnie's article because of irony. Wish I could explain more, but don't want to break a rule. = )

Humm,
George Jones wrote a book. I LIVED TO TELL IT ALL. Does that count?

You don’t mean?! ……..No! …….. He didn’t, did he? .... Oooh how naughty

Cringe..... I now know why I didn't make it. And all along, I thought I was being spontanious and "unique"..... ah geez, back to the drawing board.

cheers, niteshift

Cookie cutters were invented for a reason. If you don't fit inside, you'll have to change. If you do fit inside and have too much enthusiasm, well, that may be bad too. If you speak your mind, do it in private, (literally, just you and the mirror if you must have audience) Got it?? Now, go get baked and we'll talk later.

When you say "go get baked", does that mean to me what it means to you? lol

It's a reference to the cookie cutter line in the beginning of my post. Around here all that gets baked are cakes and cookies. That's all!

Well, geez--what CAN you do??

I cannot do a daggum thing it would seem....this clashes with this medication, that clashes with motor vehicle operation, so I bake and get my buzzes off the chocolate wafting through the house!!!

Call me crazy, but if I'm not mistaken, i'd say many artists who did the opposite of this article have gotten really far in the business.

The ole adage, any publicity is good publicity still rings true,

So does nice guys,or gals, finish last.

A sex tape didnt hurt but MADE Kardashians career, and even her sisters got rich.

If your great it's not going to matter what you did, if you have a hit song in you, they'll sign up for it.

Do athletes get kicked out of the NFL for drunk driving? Hell no, cause they score touchdowns on Sunday!

If you're just an aspiring songwriter I can see how it would affect your chances of getting a cut. The music industry isn't about cutting the best songs.
It's about a bunch of friends cutting each others songs. They would rather cut their buddies songs than take a chance on some jackass who broke those rules.
I can see truth to it.

Do you think if kardashian had a song, or knew a good songwriter, that that songwriter wouldnt get a cut?

Would it help or hurt knowing kardashian? or Swiftie...

If you have a great song it wont matter. I think they interested in good songs, they just dont what they are all the time.

The only time being an ahole can hurt is if u are just one of another million songwriters.

in any other case they are still going to take the best song.

If you're a nobody to these people who help decide which songs get cut
and it was between your brilliant song and someone they know very well but whos song is just pretty good, they are going to take the song of the person they know well every time. That's just what I've read from people who've been successful in Nashville. I assume it's the same in every music city.

If thats the case no wonder most of todays music sucks.

Pretty much why. I'm unsure if you listen to much country but there's around a dozen songwriters that have been writing mostly what is played on the radio.
I stopped listening years a go.

They have a monopoly on the country music industry

Dance/House/Trance music has been hot these last two years.
I'm glad no one has ruined that genre yet.

in which case it doesnt matter how you sabotage yourself, they wont take your song anyway.

Most likely. A songwriters best shot is to move there and try to strike up valuable relationships. It's always who you know, and who they know, and the people they know. (So I've heard and read).

I think the best chance for songwriters is to find extraordinary talent on youtube.
Develop a musical relationship.

Thats an interesting idea, they may be flattered you thought so much of them to approach them about performing your song.

You can also get a kick ass recording of your songs and post them on youtube too, with a tag that says looking for an artist to perform my songs.

Mike:

Thanks for sharing. It's difficult to destroy one's reputation if ya' ain't got one. I guess being a nobody has it's good points after all.

Regards,

Dave

Again, I hope more folks either pay no attention to their reputations or, better yet, think that having a bad reputation has little or no impact on their chances in the music business. It will mean a lot less competition for me, LOL. So I'm not going to debate why a good reputation is important.

Yes, finding artists on YouTube, ReverbNation etc. is a good way to network. It's something JPF has been recommending for a long time, along with being mindful of your reputation online
and offline, and being educated as to scams and poor business decisions.

I'm also not going to debate the point that a businessman won't waste money on someone who is a poor songwriter or artist just because they are friends. Might they pass on a good songwriter or artist who has issues with honesty, anger, substance abuse, dependability, judgement etc.? I'll let the readers here decide that on their own.

Remember this. Good songwriters or artists are rare, but opportunities for songwriters or artists are even more rare.

The bottom line is this. A songwriter or artist wanting to develop or further their career will do better by working as hard as they can to improve their art than any thing else they can do. And the more they limit self destructive thinking and activities, the easier their path will become.

Having a rep as a bad songwriter is probably worse.

Being a good human being always pays off. Just not convinced it matters one iota.

But I did find an artist willing to do my songs, myself!

Ill have to sit down and talk with myself to see if I want to write with somebody like me. Ill want to know my reputation and my dietary practices.

Ill want to know if I smoke or if I drink more than on occasion.

Will I be available whenever I call?

Will I write exclusively with myself?

Will I split the money evenly between myself?

These are the things Ill have to iron out...

Humm,
Mike D. says you need to work hard and develop your songwriting skills as much as you can. I agree. And just so you know it, Me and Dave Rice are peddling as fast as we can! I sent out 3 submissions this year, so far. None have gotten back to me. I doubt they will. But I haven't given up yet! I wonder if there is anything serious going on in Nashville at present. Keep writing!

Interesting Article, Brother Mike!

Guess I should look for a Good Publicist..instead of a Good Publisher..eh? ;-)>

So Many Pitfalls...So Little Fun..heh-heh!

I dunno...swiping a cop's horse & takin' a ride on it didn't seem to kill off Tim McGraw's career... & some of those Hunks sure do more than sign autographs to build up their fan base...

But..guess that is a pretty good "Checklist" for gettin' one's foot in the door.

Thanks for Sharin', Amigo!

Best Wishes & a Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

I think what the article means is with behind the scenes people, normal people so to speak.

it pays to be a good people person in any walk of life.

I just have a hard time believing they would pass over a great song written by an ahole than a bad song written by a nice guy.

Would you want a jerkoff great brain surgeon, or a really nice incompetent one?

hmmm...

Give me the talented jack ass

I think if I would listen to anyone on this subject it would be Mike Dunbar. Marc Alan-Barnette comes a very close second.

The only other advice I think missing is keep your mouth shut and LISTEN.

I dont think id listen to Mike. He posts an article and were all supposed to say... OH MY GOODNESS.. WHAT A GREAT ARTICLE? Reminds me of another site where one guy is considered a music business guru, but the only place hes known for that is on the site.

Please stop the nonsense. Everyone of us is in the same boat as anyone else. Nice and thoughtful to post the article, but pretty much a no kidding one.

At least its songwriting related, but its not going to change anything for anyone.

What I get out of the message here is Mike's subtle way of saying "don't be a jerk". You don't have to be famous to be a jerk, though the big names have their share of sycophants and yes men. If a pro session musician knows that a certain "star" is a prima dona and difficult to work with they may turn down an offer to record with them just because of their reputation. The "star" loses a good musician and word spreads. The result is that the "star" can't hire a quality team or musicians because no one wants to put up with the BS.

Dude I hear ya, but 99.99% of us would be lucky to have somebody listen to our music let alone decide to work with us.

Just keeping it real.

Well, my way of keeping it real is by simply being me. I'm no big deal, just an old grunt musician who's been in this business a long while, folks can read my bio any time. Brian asked me years ago to mentor here simply for that reason, so I could offer a perspective as a working class musician in Nashville. That's what I do here.

As a bass player, Mike's a natural leader.

I don't have to defend Mike D. So I won't. All I know is that he is the only guy that I know of on this site who records with known celebrities (read his bio), plays live with known celebrities, teaches music, has taught music theory, plays a hell of an upright bass, produces other peoples songs, and has been doing these things for decades. In other words, he doesn't have a day job. This is what he does. He is a mentor here. I've asked for his advise once or twice. He's not above responding to questions about the music business. That's the real deal.

once again..... some of you are missing the point.

we still have two groups of people.... those that have "made it" and those that are still trying... (otherwise known as "unknowns"

the stars can get away with all kinds of stupid behavior..
(gee..... in my own backyard, just a half mile from my house Randy Travis made an absolute ASS out of himself, walking into the convenience store naked and demanding cigarettes, then turning tail and crashing a couple miles out of town )

BUT.... for those of us without that KNOWN factor.... our reputation as someone who can get along is paramount.
You may have a killer good song.... but you'll never get the ones who need to hear it to even listen if you're a jerk.
Yes a great song might win out even if you're an a-hole... but not if they never hear it. So don't join the ranks of those who's submissions are red-flagged for the circular file because of who you are.
That's what I take away from this article.

and HellyaH!!! I'd take Mike's advise any day. and if I had the money.... he'd be producing my second CD like he did the first

Actually my reply had less to do with Mike but with Bill.

I thought his response to Aaron who can be a blockhead sometimes, was uncalled for.

The only people to ever tell me to shut up and listen were Mom and Dad.

Aarons career isnt going to skyrocket because of an article.

Nor anyones.

I know a guy who has songs placed on major TV shows like the keeping up with the kardashians, privately he tells me how embarrased he is to be on it, but it's a step in the right direction for his career.

Id listen to him, but it aint like hes going to pass up an opportunity for himself to help me out.

Just think alot of the advice given is insincere and self serving, the perosn knows you aint doing nothing with your music.

Not in my opinion. There are all kinds of boats here ranging from my blow-up dinghy to shiny cabin cruisers like Mike drives.

You can't tell from their posts that people like Mike have shiny boats because they tend to be humble, approachable and friendly. And they would be the last to tell you that they are in a different boat. But you can tell if your radar is operational.

OK - just having some fun with the analogy. I'm not piling on. Just observing that this place really DOES tend to live up to its name.

Scott

So Mike is a professional songwriter with pro cuts and gold records hanging on his wall?

There;s alot of folks who have the modesty moniker, but they really love when people bring it up.

I dont know Mike, and again it aint about him, but I have heard this record before, it's really just words.

If a person is a bigwig in the business and can help others, then do it. I ave yet to see anybody get a major cut by somebody on a forum.

Im more inclined to listen to songwriting or recording advice,
thats something that i can use and affects me.

I'll answer those, DRS,

Yes, I am a professional songwriter, I've had songs cut by Razzy Bailey, C.J. Chanier, Big Al and the Heavyweights, and Susie Luchsinger, all pros, you can Google them if you like. No I have no gold records hanging on my wall. Yes, I am a wealthy man, loved by the Lord of creation, blessed with a beautiful wife, two loving children and a wild little 3 year old grandson.

Lol, Mike im sure you;re a good man, im loved too believe it or not.

Don't take it as an insult, it;s a broad spectrum idea. Music biz is a combination of so many factors many of which are out of our hands.

Not saying you are not succesful. To have any cut means a little something.

So with all these cuts, can u get me a cut too?

Nobody ever got me a cut...you must be a democrat. LOL.

Ok, I don't personally know like but I do know a few professional musicians/artists. I would never ask one of them to help me get somewhere. For one thing, I like my friends and I doubt they like being used any more than I do. For another, one of my friends is a singer, good voice, she listens to anything I send her but I don't expect her to cut it, I just expect her to be honest. I listen to her songs and am honest. It's how if should work. She's been interested in a couple of my songs but they weren't right for her current project. I don't have a problem with that because she is my friend and I'd rather have an honest opinion than a cut. Besides all of that, it can cause I'll feelings if her vision were to differ from mine. She's written songs with pro writers, does regularly. I would never ask her to take mine to one of her writing sessions either.

As for those on here being useful in furthering our (the peons) careers, who says any of them have to. It's not their jobs to mdke sure we are successful. Ugh!!! Souch drama lately! Ive got Midol if anyone admits they need it.

Ok, I don't personally know like but I do know a few professional musicians/artists. I would never ask one of them to help me get somewhere. For one thing, I like my friends and I doubt they like being used any more than I do. For another, one of my friends is a singer, good voice, she listens to anything I send her but I don't expect her to cut it, I just expect her to be honest. I listen to her songs and am honest. It's how if should work. She's been interested in a couple of my songs but they weren't right for her current project. I don't have a problem with that because she is my friend and I'd rather have an honest opinion than a cut. Besides all of that, it can cause I'll feelings if her vision were to differ from mine. She's written songs with pro writers, does regularly. I would never ask her to take mine to one of her writing sessions either.

As for those on here being useful in furthering our (the peons) careers, who says any of them have to. It's not their jobs to mdke sure we are successful. Ugh!!! Such drama lately! Ive got Midol if anyone admits they need it.