JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Vince Gill speaks out!

My sentiments exactly!

Vince speaks

Isn't that the truth


"Creative brains are being sorely mistreated."


Thanks for sharing Colin



Kimberly

Thanks for sharing, Colin:

Makes you wonder why we even try... but I guess there's always hope. It's strange how the country station we have in this vicinity still plays more traditional country than anything else. I'm grateful for that.

Hope you guys have a great weekend. I'm gonna start a day early.

Best,

Dave

As I read the article and Vince Gill's quote (while shaking my head),

"For me, [country music] lost its traditional bent pretty severely," explains the songwriter. "I would love to hear someone write a song like 'He Stopped Loving Her Today' rather than 'You're hot. I'm hot. We're in a truck.' It's just mind-numbing to me."

"Vince admits he is dismayed by the current state of the music industry, and worried about its future. "Income streams are dwindling. Record sales aren't what they used to be," he notes. "The devaluation of music and what it's now deemed to be worth is laughable to me. My single costs 99 cents. That's what a [single] cost in 1960. On my phone, I can get an app for 99 cents that makes fart noises -- the same price as the thing I create and speak to the world with. Some would say the fart app is more important. It's an awkward time. Creative brains are being sorely mistreated.",

With this attitude coming from someone of Gill's caliber, I have to wonder how today's music industry can explain itself. We have Lot's of discussions here (JPF) about popular music evolution and how our parents didn't like our music, and everything is the same generational, etc, But the problem here IS that the music industry is losing money AND the music actually sucks. It's not a matter of taste. It just sucks. Maybe sales have shifted from record companies to Internet sites like i-Tunes, I don't know. I do know that you can find good music if you look for it. Why should we have to find good music on our own? That used to be the record companies job.

I can guarantee that songs like "He Stopped Loving Her Today" are going to be selling well forever. How long are they going to dumb down the listener and feed them this current crap? Maybe until they go broke.

Truer words were never spoken..Vince summed it up up quite eloquently, and not just Country, but music in general. Granted, the music buying public buying tripe is nothing new, but now it seems the rule rather than the exception.

It's a good thing that some still fly the flag on solid ground rather than go down with the ship.
Bless all who sail in her.

Right on Vince!!
Bluegrass is the omly part that has tried to hold on to it's integrity, but as noted, the whole industry is in decline and beset by mediocrity.

Go Vince .........................

Let’s write another
“He Stopped Loving Her Today”
Let’s do our part
Fill up the charts
With songs Vince Gill
Might proudly want to play!

My favorite of Vince's..

http://youtu.be/6UU-G9mFBUU

Some of the problems that have been addressed over and over are these.
The Major Labels don't want to pay the full Mechanical Rate for outside songs so they want the Artist to write their own songs. So they find those fine looking young artists that may be able to sing well and look good but can't write the songs to match. But if they can sell good looks that is what they do. Nevermind that most of the songs are mediocre at best. I occasionally tune a local radio station to see what is playing. Mostly all I hear is a lot of gab and little music, most of which should have never made it into the studio, much less out onto the airwaves.

Just out of curiosity would someone post a song that was in the top ten on the Billboard charts in the last year that "Sucked" or was "horrible".
Then give an explanation of why it sucks or was horrible.

or
How about this list

Billboard Top Country

1: Fly Over States, Jason Aldean
2: Over You, Miranda Lambert
3: Somethin' 'Bout A Truck, Kip Moore
4: No Hurry, Zac Brown Band
5: Good Girl, Carrie Underwood
6: Springsteen, Eric Church
7: Better Than I Used To Be, Tim McGraw
8: Banjo, Rascal Flatts
9: Drunk On You, Luke Bryan
10: You Don't Know Her Like I Do, Brantley Gilbert

Well Bill,
I just went and checked out two Artists I sent songs for in 2009. Randy Houser and Randy Montana. Google them for yourself and see what you think. I have no idea if my songs were considered or even listened to. Not much excitment for me.

Yep, Ray, on the mechanicals and the good looking young artists.
If they're good looking enough and the girls(who buy most of the music) think the guys are kinda' sexy, they can sell near crap.

Vince lost his record deal, he's going to be working more with the Time Jumpers, they're moving from the Station Inn to 3rd and Lindsey, a bigger venue with more parking. I believe he's positioning himself to be the new big fish in Americana. I predict that gradually Americana will move into the place where Country used to be, saleswise. Country now has picked up the market that pop abandoned, the light rock guitar oriented pop stuff. Americana will pick up Country. It's all a market shift. There are probably as many people today buying rootsy country as there were back in the 80's when everyone was complaining that country went pop. They just call it Americana.

We have a stronger "real" country scene in Nashville than ever before. It used to be two or three trad country dance venues in the area, now there are six or eight of them. We have the major trad country radio station in the world, WSM, doing better than ever. When I play a Midnight Jamboree on WSM, the theater is full, that's about 400 people.

Country isn't dead, far from it, you just won't hear it on so called "country" radio.

Here are some resources.

http://www.hillbilliesville.com/

http://www.thealternateroot.com/

http://americanamusic.org/

http://home.mindspring.com/~stever/

http://www.dhcountrymusic.com/

As more stars such as Gill move into Americana, and as more new artists, such as Jack White and the Civil Wars make inroads into the mainstream music business with roots and country sounding music, Americana will eventually become more mainstream. Then folks will be saying "I remember when Americana Music wasn't just a bunch of commercial garbage."

And it goes on.

Ahh, he's just turned into a "get off my lawn" old fogey!

Lots of good artists climbing to the top these days -- and a lot of tripe, too. ".. same as it ever was ..."

Thanks for that Mike.
I really hadn't kept up on he latest trends--just lamented that things weren't as they used to be

I'm glad that we heard from MD. But the consensus here is that popular music today is less than what was considered superior before. Shall we take a poll? I know that today's music would lose. I'll bet the ranch on it and win.

I agree, Ben, but what I'm saying is that there is still high quality traditional Country music being written, performed and recorded, it's just not getting on mainstream Country radio.

Thanks Mike, I agree.

Depends on who's voting. Me, you and every one else here -- yes. Today's younger country listeners? Not so sure.

You might be right Kevin. Some people love it.

I see both sides of this argument.

Me personally, am a classic "real" country guy. Raised on Haggard, Jones, Cash, and Hank. This has been the basis of my shows as well since I started. Unfortunately this does not get one bookings, at least in my area, "new" country does.

I have had to add "new" country to my shows to continue playing. Now that I have and have seen the crowds reactions it is hard to hate it. I have just chosen a select few artist to watch that make some semblance of real country music and use their stuff for shows. Artists like Jamie Johnson, Eric Church, and Jason Aldean really are not that different from Hank Jr, or Waylon. So thats is where I have to stand on that.

My true opinion is most country now is "pop" country and is nothing more than fluff but hey the crowds like it.

I guess it has been this way awhile, I remember listening to George Straight growing up and my parents called it "pop" crap. I guess Rascall Flatts is my pay back...lol

It's what happens when an entity is made into a sellable "product".. it's value is gradually lost, as more and more will be making the same, and it will get cheaper and cheaper to produce it. At the end it will have very little or no value at all, as value is contributed by it's uniqueness.

Everyone today can learn how to programme a song within a month, write lyrics over it, record it at home and sell it on CD Baby, Bandcamp, Amazon ect. Most is already said and done, and the genres are so established now that they are limiting what can be said and done. So most music now is translations and reproductions of old tried and tested themes for new generations of audiences.

So MUSIC in general really IS worth less, when considered as a product on a market.. it's not unique, anyone can do it (if you don't try to be "artistic"), and the production costs are lower than ever.

The valuable items are ARTISTS, because they are unique human beings who can't be copied, made "cheaper" ect.

The value arises when an artist marries a piece of music, and does something with that, so therefore the concert prices are up.

Artists creates a relationship with their audiences, and it's that relationship that has value, because a human relation is comitting. So artists can make profit off of the relationship they create with their fans, in terms of sales of tickets, merchandise, software, cars .. you name it.

So in the business game, music is just used as a tool to create relationships. Artists really don't need REAL songs, if the songs don't create those kind of relationships. Therefore branding music on being "real" is meaningless. It may say something about real people and real lives, but the point is that it has to establish comitting relationships that can sell other things, and in that respect, being "real" is counterproductive.

Of course there are a few with artistic integrity, like Vince Gill, and they run their own show as far as they can take it, but most are just performers and that's a JOB, not a calling.

In music BUSINESS, they leave their ideals at the door..

Funny,
I got up a bit early today. I tuned the T.V. to CMT. They are running the Top 20 "Country" Videos. They were up to number 4. I won't mince words. All Crap. I know how hard it is to write a good song and I'm sure these young Artist's are trying but there is nothing I would spend a dime for. Today there is no Learning the Craft. If you are an Artist and you can find/modify some of the current "Country" and make it work for you, fine.

Maybe you can Google Hank's Song MOVE IT ON OVER. So far most of today's offerings aren't moving me.

Anybody...hello...echo...hello...

If you like traditional Country, don't go to Country radio or tv shows. Look for Americana radio or tv shows.

Thanks for sharing, I wasn't aware that Vince Gill is coming to Houston. I'm so glad I moved here I get to see all the great artists LOL...Traditional country is all I listen to, in fact I was told by a producer in Nashville back in 06 that my music will be hard to pitch because I am too traditional ( What? )Well that is what I write and thats my style. Anyway theres a great country station down here in Houston that only plays the vintage stuff 97.1 FM. It is the only radio station that you can still hear the likes of Patsy Cline, Lynn Anderson and Ray Price on a daily basis.

Next stop "Gangsta Country"

Cheers
Paul

There has always been a smattering of crap in between the good songs in the charts....problem is that now this has been reversed...we now have a smattering of good songs in amongst the crap....that applies to all genres and all charts. There are a few reasons for it. Here are some things jotted down ad hoc that I think are the main factors.

No decent role models to set a high benchmark for others to aspire to. Reality shows where mediocrity gets recognised as talent and entertainment consists of laughing at delusional people making a fool of themselves. We have been bombarded with so much crap we have now accepted THAT as the standard to aspire to. Closed shops where outsiders with new ideas get a chance.
Fewer real classically trained musicians learning how to play or how to write music to a decent standard. Fewer young people who have a desire just to perform because of a love of music. The kids nowadays want to be rich pop stars so study business plans and networking.....music comes second. Record companies who have stagnated and are unwilling to take a chance on something new so they roll out the same old disposable clones singing the same old disposable songs. Music is so easily accessed it is not valued any more....has become disposable and part of the background noise rather than something special to treasure. Payola...it still exists. Computers that can generate music just by pressing a button means any fool can make a beat and mouth off over it. Some even make millions from this...... Melodyne and lip sync means any good looking kid can appear to sing well and fool the stupid suckers who buy their stuff.....finally apathy......most people could not care less...cause they allow it all to happen. I find it ironic that people like myself who point out what is wrong get flack from some of my peers...the very people I am trying to protect and stand up for.

I'm flattered!

But will you still love me when I top the charts?

Great comments here. Mike Dunbar has some good points, but so does Vince Gill. Bill brought up a good point with his list of top songs and I think most of those are pretty good songs. There is some awesome talent out there and a lot of it is on the radio.... but that said, the lyrics are often times just mind-numbing.

"Truck, girl, truck, country road, Oh and did I mention that I'm from the country, and country people are awesome, Oh yeah and they have fields in Kansas and sometimes I fly over them in a plane. Truck,girl, truck."

There, I think I covered it.... oh yes, and throw in the token angry-chick-you-cheated-on-me song.

A lot of these good songs on the radio, IMHO, would become great songs if the lyrics were a little more engaging.... That said, I still find myself listening to them.

Mike

One more thing about the 'Americana'. There is a great band from Seattle called "The Head and the Heart". Check them out if you get the chance... not really country.

I also just heard the Civil Wars for the first time recently and was floored. The simplicity of the production, coupled with the great lyrics, harmonies and emotions all combine to make a most excellent record.... maybe not radio music, but GREAT music.

Sometimes, the writing on country radio, despite the amazing talent that is behind it, sounds just a little too calculated. I think that the consumer would ultimately enjoy the product more, if the boundaries for what is "marketable" were broadened just ever so slightly.

Mike

I love music. Always did, always will. I really don't give a damn what happens in the music industry. The goal of the industry is to make money; the goal of the music lover is to enjoy sound. I don't understand why anyone would buy records they don't like, or keep listening to radio stations that annoy them.

Point being, all that awful new music is being bought. That's the critical source of annoyance here--those satisfied listeners. If you want to move that mountain and change the music industry, then I say go after those buyers. Make them change their minds.

Not me. I say let them enjoy what they like. I'm not hurting for great new music--I can't even keep up with it all.

You nailed it Mark...when art and business get together business wins and art suffers. Sad that so many people in the music industry put business first. I also love music.....hate business. I judge music on whether I like it or not....marketing forces, fashion and peer pressure does not cloud my judgement. Sadly most listeners are influenced by what their peers like rather than their own mind or a love of music.

Jody....I will always love you. Topping the charts means little to me. Making quality music is what counts.

Does any one get The Country Channel? They play all the latest music Video's 24/7. The music may be tolerable but some of the productions are so bad you have to see it to believe it.

Back in the 50's mostly practically all or the offerings, Country Pop were very acceptable. Of course there were no Video's then except what was on the Hit Parade.

Now I'm not trying to go back to the 50's but today's music offerings are so bad it isn't even funny. Maybe Hank Thompson said it best, "I wouldn't even let these artists carry my guitar case".

I believe The Country Channel is part of the Scripps Network. They don't pay PRO royalties. And there's probably no upfront licencing for the writer. So the writers and artists don't get paid. May have something to do with the quality Ray.

John

It all starts here, you'll see

I think its recordings that are really on the down slope. Its now cheap and easy to record music. Couple that with the fact that no one has any money to spend on luxuries like CDs (which if you think about it, is like buying a piece of art) and how easy it is to pirate music, and youll get what happened to the recording industry. My hope is that this will bring a new renaissance of live music. Its the only real way to make money now. The way to take advantage of a kind of crappy situation is by using how defeated the music industry is to your advantage. The record industry used to keep people out of the spotlight and try to control the bands (or artists) musical directions. Now you can record your own music, flood the internet with it, and hopefully pull a much bigger audience than you would previously have been able to. Im not saying I don't wish album sales would happen again like they used to, Im just saying you can still make it if your malleable to the way the industry has changed.

I like originality and honesty in music. I just flipped through the cable channels on TV. Stopped at a country music station. Don't know the song, but the guy singing sounded like he had a clothes pin on his nose, or maybe he was holding his nose as he sang. obviously phony. The song was that bad.

I'M A VINCE GILL FAN--I HATE TO SEE THE THE INDUSTRY, TREAT THE TRUE VETERANS LIKE THEY HAVE--THEY OUGHTA BE HUNG FROM THE WATER TANK, AND PAINTED JOHN DEER GREEN!

BACK IN THE 50'S, GREAT MUSIC, REGARDLESS OF GENRE WAS EXCITING, AND I COULDN'T WAIT TO HEAR THE SONG AGAIN--

NOW IT'S ALL POLISHED AND PACKAGED WITH A DECORATOR BOW! A CD WILL HAVE A LOT OF SONGS YOU ONLY LISTEN TO ONCE--GOTCHA!

IN THE OLD DAYS, THE SONG WAS HI-FIDELITY ON AN AM RADIO STATION--I'D CLOSE MY EYES, AND SEE MY OWN VIDEO--

A 45 RECORD COST 25 CENTS BACK THEN--I WOULD GO TO THE RECORD SHOP AND JUST LISTEN, IF I DIDN'T HAVE A QUARTER.

WELL, WE CAN'T GO BACK--WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE NEXT BIG THING--REAL LIVE MUSIC!

BACK THEN, I COULD DRIVE MY OLD CHEVY 8O MILES ON 50 CENTS WORTH OF GAS!

Mackie