JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Anybody need a demo/melody ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIUDPPEkNPw

I can make a demo like the one above for only $50.
If you need a melody also, I charge $100..
Check my song above and others on barrydbutler channel at youtube.
Thanks,
Barry David Butler
Sebring, Florida
bdbutler@centurylink.net

Barry,

I think your time would be better spent learning from the folks here on this site.

I would also tell you to check out some of the demos Mike Caro delivers to folks and compare the quality he puts out to what you're offering here.

I would tell you it's like night and day.

I'm surprised no one else was willing to speak up, but I wouldn't spend 10 bucks on your offer when I know there's other options I could tap into here if I so needed it.

Just some friendly advice my friend.

Good luck in your endeavors!

I just actually "saw" this thread and followed the link to the demo.
Barry, I have to agree with Gregory. While what's been posted may well be fine for your demos IMHO, you need to follow the advice to learn from those here who do a great job and know what they are doing before trying to sell a service that doesn't cut it as a professionally done project.
What you might do is offer the service gratis to other members who may not have the funds for a demo and you would then also have the chance to learn the craft. The basics are there in that you've been able to combine audio and a slide show into a video production but the intricacies required for a quality production are just not there yet.

Barry

There's so many good guys on this site willing to help one another without seeking any payments, just a nod or a name check.
Why don't you get to know other members, build a relationship and work with them. If you're as good as you think you are, your expertise would be appreciated.
Give it a try there's top notch pro's, middling guys and those with plenty of enthusiasm like myself.
Travis

Tried to contact you via private message but it would not go through.

I'd like to talk to you about a possible project.

Doug

I'm sorry everybody is mad at me. What I am offering is not the demo BUT a Melody for Lyricsts who can't find a good one. I do NOT think $100 for a Good Melody and a home demo is too much. I have worked with lyricsts for free and some for a fee. I can help aspiring lyricsts with the form and math and that kind of stuff too.
Don't be so harsh....
Barry bdbutler@centurylink.net

Hey Barry,

I don't think anyone is being too harsh mate, or mad at you either.

Firstly, welcome to JPF, it's always great to see musicians wanting to work with lyricists.

I don't think anyone is mad at you, more than anything thry're just trying to get you invovled and working with others.

It's just that trying to charge for a service around here, you really have to be top notch.

People around here do charge for a service sometimes, other times they collaborate, and swap one service for another, just in the interest of music itself.

The aim here is helping others, and through that, helping yourself also.

I'll be blunt, and say that your work is not up to a degree where you can offer a "service" for $100, as the level of service which works here is one of co-operation where the standard is above the one you have demonstrated. ( for free )

I know it may sound tough, or ungracious, but that's just the way it is.

Again, welcome, and I hope you can meet some great people, hang out musically, and work on some great collabs for the sake of music itself.

cheers, niteshift

I too want to welcome you to JPF's..really some great people here with a lot of talent...hang out a bit and let everyone get to know you...we're happy to have you join us....

glyn

Hi Barry:

Welcome to Just Plain Folks. I hope you did not misunderstand some of our regular's statements. Nobody is angry with you. It is somewhat traditional here for newcomers to join in the conversations on the various forums and threads, participate in reviewing the lyrics and MP3s of others and then, as you develop a reputation here, pitch your services. There are no "iron-clad" rules except civility... and regardless, at least one person has viewed your first post and want to get in touch with you for a possible project. Not bad for your first week here, my friend.

Don't give up on us. We are generally a pretty good group of mild-mannered people. It's just that we get "spammed" fequently and it's a little like stirring up a nest of "killer bees"... LOL! No harm intended. Stick around. Have some fun with us. We really don't bite.

Regards,

Dave

I also don't think anyone is mad at you, I know I'm not. I do have a tendency to be blunt and I stand by my statements, particularly, learn from those here who do a great job and know what they are doing before trying to sell a service that doesn't cut it as a professionally done project.
The key is "professionally done project" and the demo you pointed to does not meet that critirian.
You have Doug Buche looking for a possible project. I would suppose it would be a collaboration and well worth it if that's the case.

There is tremendous talent from all over the world on this site and well worth learning from.

Hi Barry, I think that lyricist's are looking for a real musician, or musicians. Not a BIAB wizard. You're good at it I might add, but we aren't fooled by something that we can do ourselves with a computer program. Any good producer can spot the phoniness

Mike Dunbar, Mike Caro, Heather Cowles, and myself do real pro demo's here using real instruments and our own raw talent.

Folks, you are welcome to try his offer out, but buyer beware.

BIAB or "real", loops or live, it doesn't matter -- for a recording, all that matters is how good it sounds.

Kevin. I totally disagree and can't believe that someone of your talant can have that attitude. You seem to cheapen your own talent by using a program.

I don't have enough talent to record a better sounding demo by myself than I can do with BIAB. I am putting together two 12-song CD's right now. One is mostly BIAB with me adding guitars and vocals. The other is BIAB on drums on just one tune and drums and bass on one other. The rest is all "real". I like them both.

In fact, since I am putting these CD's up on bandcamp and maybe CD-Baby, I will be sweeping over them with V-Vocal (autotune) so listeners won't cringe.

I am not defending the quality of Barry's demos. I am just saying that IF his demos were 100% wonderful, then I wouldn't care if they were BIAB or not.

Kevin

Okay Kevin, Thanks for the birthday sentiments.

Barry,

I'm definitely not mad at you. I'm just offering you some sound advice. Take it or leave it.

I stand by my first post in here.

Judging from the quality of the "demo" and "melody" you provided here in this thread, I was not impressed at all. I feel you would be better suited developing your craft more and learning from people more talented than you are.

Sorry Kevin, after thinking about it,it does seem feasible for someone like you who writes dozens of songs at a time to use BIAB or other programs as a way of filing or saving your music. You can always record it later with real instruments.

What I don't care for is someone using the program to make paid demos. Drum machine? sure. Midi tracks? sure. But there should be a real musician somewhere in the recording. Just my opinion.

Ben: Ha, ha -- unless I get rich or get in a band, I will probably never re-record this with 100% live instrumentation. ... or this. It is a quite common opinion on using BIAB for musical works, so I am not bothered about it at all. You know if I sent a BIAB demo to nashville, they would turn it down just for that reason -- even if the song was great (I guess).


Hmmm, what is BIAB except for a drum machine, midi processing, audio 'loops' and a chord and section entry tool? Once we have decided that drum machines and loops are acceptable, how can we exclude BIAB? I do realize that the "name" of the product really hurts it. If it was called "ProComposer", it would be more readily embraced.

If you can use drum machines, loops or BIAB and sound "real", then it make sense. The goal is always to humanize it to make it sound "real". Be honest, do the two songs I linked to sound real or fake? (If they sound fake, what do I have to change?!!!)

Kevin

The key word here is "paid demos". If I hired someone to demo my song, I wouldn't expect it to be produced fully on a computer program. I would expect a living breathing musician somewhere in the song. Drum programs are acceptable, I don't know why. I didn't start it. Midi involves some type of musicianship using a keyboard, but I may be wrong because I don't use Midi. My style of music doesn't call for it.

You helped make my point with the above quote, so why would you pay money to someone to produce a demo using only a computer program when Nashville will only turn it down?

The music in your links does sound good but I don't have a producers ears so, if asked, I don't know if I could honestly say if it's real or not. The first song reminded me of Neal Young. I remember hearing the dog song before with Tammy on vocal. Funny song.

Hey Guys.....this is Barry.
I appreciate all of what you say BUT you seem to be saying
the I think I'm doing a pro style, studio demo her in my bedroom...I'm NOT and would love to have money for studio players and a great recording. My THING in General is writing songs...I am NOT a musician or a good singer BUT can make a demo that can be listened to....I write a lot of songs......I have 106 on youtube, another 250 in mp3 and I write ALL the time..Probably average 2 songs a week or more. I like to write my Own Words BUT LOVE to collaborate on lyrics also. The only reason I started charging money for a good MELODY for somebody's words is because I'm broke...My wife and I are in our late 60's and can't find jobs....can't make it on two Social Security Checks...SO...Instead of giving hundreds of melodies to all these people I started charging....Got about 80 done in a few years....mostly amateur lyricists just starting out....don't have the math and meter correct yet....don't know about verse, chorus and Bridge....rhyme scheme not great...SO...I took some awful lyrics and fixed and edited them up, made up a melody and made a simple demo so they could play the song...Most of them were thrilled to get the Product I supplied. I NEVER said I was a Pro Musician or had a Studio sounding demo....SO...that's my story....just trying to make a little money to help us out here AND also help out new lyricists who Don't sing or play or make up a melody.... For that and the help in structure...$100 is reasonable. I also do a video for them occasionally.
I try and get my songs to up and coming singers and bands of ALL genres to add them to there list..ALSO....I write music for Musicals....DOG SHOW THE MUSICAL....I wrote 16 songs (melody only) for that one...SO....everybody here got the wrong idea about me......I've written probably 500 songs with lyricists for no money just a collab......
Barry bdbutler@centurylink.net

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKvcB2WQG-o

"GOD IS IN CONTROL"

Somebody here didn't like the melody I wrote for "WE ARE THE DREAMERS...Or the words....Everything is subjective.....I don't like the same songs as my wife or vice versa...I thinkg my songs are Great....I'm my biggest fan and I think that's essential in this tought business we are in....As my song above says...GOD IS IN CONTROL...
Barry

What is BIAB...I don't even know what it is.
I play on my demos....I have these rhythms on my keyboard but I play them and extra instruments....only on a keyboard.....I need to have my songs demoed so I can let people hear them... OF course I want my song demoed in a studio BUT they charge a lot more than $100 and for my $100 I make up a melody also.
What is the Problem here...I always let a possible client hear my demos so they know what they are going to get....I NEVER deceive anybody....I just don't get all this hostility...
Barry

Barry, no one here is being hostile with you. I commend you for trying to make an honest buck with your music. The problem is that this is the wrong forum for your service. Most people here already can do as well or better than you. Here is the place to collaborate, discuss and learn. Find a forum for lyricists and poets and I'm sure you'll have a better response. But also participate here to get better and learn more about the craft.

Rick

SORRY...I didn't realize I was doing this at the wrong site.
Barry

BIAB is a program called Band In A Box. Barry, I listened to your YouTube link again. The vocal isn't very good. I had to say that because you persist in thinking that you're being mistreated here. I've seen worse treatment on the lyric board. Please quit digging a hole for yourself and listen to advise.

Guys, relax!

I think the melody on the recording is good, the vocal isn't my favorite.

I would pay, if I were in the market at the moment, $50 for a gv. Why? Well, if I can get a (my) melody played well, BIAB or otherwise, regardless of the vocal, and hear if together with the lyric, I can make changes as needed before I pay more for a pro demo. Personally I don't care what instrument is used if I can get to a product I can send in to a studio for the end product.

I do agree that vocally, it sounds off but so do mine, that why I have to pay someone else to sing for me.

Don't be so harsh, not all of us are as talented as most of you guys, I think what he's offering is fair for $50. Honestly though, I wouldn't pay $100 for someone to create a melody for me, that's a cowriter and you don't pay cowriters.

JMHO

Thanks Caroline,
I don't have a good voice OR play well....I can write a catchy melody though and many amateur lyricists CANNOT find a decent melody or Demo...that's all I am offering...They are work products...
BTW...People either love my voice or hate it....Been compared to Neil Diamond and Dylan....lol
I'm looking for Great Singers and bands to want to record my songs or work with Great Lyricists and try and write a great song. I LOVE to write songs as it is just what I do.
Barry bdbutler@centurylink.net

By the way, you are encouraged to list your services in this section:

So you are allowed to advertise your services at JPF. Good luck in your endeavors. Next time just use the right forum. You might still get folks a'bashing, but at least you will be in the right place!

Kevin

I agree with Caroline, for the price of $50, that's what I'm use to paying for a v/g....and I also agree I think the melody is a good one...lots of luck on your music...and give us all a chance here and get to know us...we're really a great bunch of folks...


glyn

Okay, (as I throw up my arms in disgust), buy this guy's demo's.

But remember,I'll be the first to say "I told you so".

Forget Mike, Forget Sub, Forget MD, Forget Heather. Let's go for the new guy. You guy's can have it.

Greetings everyone:

Ben, my aviator friend... what has stirred up this massive prejudice against Band in a Box? Heck, I don't care if somebody plays Beethovens' Fifth on a kazoo if it ends up sounding good. The act of playing a melody on just about any kind of device is okay with me. I agree that traditional instruments are certainly higher "on the pecking order" but I get ticked when people "sample" the work of others without permission... and claim it as their own. Now that's a travesty.

Barry, if people are willing to pay the price you ask... and are happy with the result... sounds like a good deal for both parties. I have not listened to your work, mostly because I'm not in the "market" for demos or melody creation. I would be very reluctant to tell you anything negative about your work. As far as I'm concerned, the only way any of us can improve is to keep on working at what we want to do musically. Nobody said it would be easy... or that everyone would like our music or vocals. If you have even one fan... success has been achieved.

The real measure of success in music is how many songs one has on the charts and if these songs will stand the test of time. The second measure, to my way of thinking, is whether or not you are making enough money to pay for your musical habit. In that regard, most of the folks here (myself included) are starving to death... LOL!

I admire your spunk... and hope you'll continue to chime in every chance you get on any forum that strikes your fancy. Learning the ropes at JPF is an exercise that requires a little time and study.

All my best to everyone,

Dave

Barry,

I am sure that it doesn't make you feel good that you are being treated as a new member. I know that you have almost been a member here for a year now. I have noticed you because I work with another musician named David Butler in England and I always do a double-take when you are on...LOL!!

I do think you would be in a better position if you had been more active on the site in that time and didn't use the word "Demo" in your title.

I liked your song "God's In Control", I am sure the lyricist was pleased with the melody and video.

I have been fighting for music since i started and remember the days when I was a lyricist with a melody stuck in my head and looking for music, there may be someone out there who needs your help and in return, they will help you with your current situation and I am very sorry to hear about that...

I have seen you here for a while and I hear your concerns Barry and I am hoping that you will take a deep breath and remember that everything here is all in the written word, with no emotions or vocal hints at the intentions. I hope you re-post this in the musician's forum and re-title it and have some good fortune for you and your wife, no matter how it finds you.

Tammy

Dave, my flying partner, I have absolutely no problem with Band In A Box. My problem comes in when someone asks for money to manipulate BIAB or a similar program calling it a demo, when as we all know a publisher or producer will not even listen to that type of demo. Wasted money.

Hi Ben:

Your point is well taken. The publishers, producers and artists of today expect the song to be a "hit" when it is first heard. They expect the poor schnook songwriter to pony up and tow the barge... when he or she has so little money in the piggy bank.

Then, they get their stinkin' music attorneys to write contracts that steal the rest of the songwriter's proceeds... or demand that they be listed as co-writers so they can further tap into the songwriter's cookie jar. It's become a game of "shooting fish in a barrell."

My point about BIAB or the razzmatazz kazoo band... is simply that most of us will never know real success in this rigged game. Thus, if some lonely spinster songwriter pays somebody to put a little music and vocal to their words... and they are happy with it... at least they got to hear it as a song. To most, the knowledge of what makes a good song is never going to land on their little aircraft carrier. They just want to hear their words coming back at them over a set of earphones or speakers in a $20 dollar boom box.

I can remember wanting that same feeling. It is a terrible hunger to believe you have written a lyric that might become a good or great song... and never be able to hear it or express it in delicious notes or soaring voices.

If Barry provides a pathway to relieve that kind of pain, then to my mind, he is providing a valuable service. I don't think he's telling them he will pave the way to the stars... LOL! He's simply offering a service of musicating and vocalizing their words. Hopefully, as he progresses, he will improve in his techniques on a broad front... and who knows, he might be famous someday. Godspeed Barry!

On the other hand... if I had the talent of Ben Willis... I would have already been handing out autographs and clipping coupons on wall street as a CPA counted my money. (You know I'm pulling your chain, don't you, my talented friend?)

All the best to all concerned. Life is short, live it to the hilt.

Dave

No, no, no!

It's not about jumping from Mike,Sub, MD or Heather. Those are the go to's when you have the kinks worked out and are ready to get to the finished product.

I would never pass up any of those proven for someone else. I'm simply saying that for $50 when one doesn't really play well, it's a good way to hear it without spending the big dollars.

Not one person, given the opportunity and cash flow, that's in their right mind would pass up those we admire for a demo. But let's face it, not everyone can pay more, not everyone writes for the same reason and purpose. For those not wanting to pitch, $50 is a lot to spend, for me it's an investment to get to where I would want to go with it. I can't tell you how many times I thought I was finished with a lyric until I heard it with music. That makes a huge difference.

Don't misunderstand, I don't believe I would use a $50 gv to pitch, well I have, and never got a nibble, so I don't anymore. But it's worth it for me.

Dave, here is Barry's first post.

"I can make a demo like the one above for only $50.
If you need a melody also, I charge $100..
Check my song above and others on barrydbutler channel at youtube.
Thanks,
Barry David Butler
Sebring, Florida
bdbutler@centurylink.net "

To me, it sounds like someone with 21 posts here is trying to make a buck.
Should we forget about the people who have been here for years like Sub, Dunbar, and Heather, just because some unknown person comes around with a crappy sounding YouTube demo only to come here to make money? Come on man, if Barry want's to be part of us, he can't start off by making a monetary profit.

Barry, you should have just introduced yourself and joined us as a group. But instead you came here and asked for money for your "talent". We all have talent here.

That I fully agree with!

I think it goes without saying, but when you start off somewhere like this, you must put your music, lyric, photos and novels out for those to see. Without money coming into play.

Thanks for that Caroline, I thought that maybe you thought I was talking about you when I said "forget Mike..etc.". I wasn't. Just frustrated because these people are the best.

I agree Mike Dunbar, Mike Caro, Heather are the best and when they return my demos,I feel they could not be better....Heather does all my female songs....I mean all of them...and most my male songs I have been lucky enough that I have wonderful co-writes with them....never will I ever stray from these guys....

Hmm.... well, there goes the neighborhood.

cheers, niteshift

At least I started up a good conversation.
I make a demo like these with all my songs.....99% of my songs I never charged anybody.....It started with a poet asking me if I could make a song out of her poem....I said I'd try....I had to re write some of it and fix the form BUT it came out good...and she sent me $100. SO...It started from that. I've written 120 songs in just the past two years (NO CHARGE) with a Great Lyricst in California Chet Blum....I write all the time and need a demo for the lyricst to hear the song and for me to chronicle the song...I make videos sometime because it is an easy way to send them places...I never intended to stir up a hornets nest and have been taken aback...If you write songs you need some type of demo and I make them here with my crappy equipment and limited skills. BUT if a singer wants to hear a few ballads....I go get the mp3's or videos and send them on. I have some up and coming singers doing my songs...but basically I'm starving along with the rest of you. Recently a song I wrote with John Knight of the UK called "PLANET EARTH ON LIFE SUPPORT" was FOUND on my youtube site and is being produced Professionally...Real Musicians, Singer and Pro Studio...I'm excited but probably won't amount to a hill of beans....
SO....that's what I have to say today....Got a nibble on my Musical from an Aussie...but also probably a dry hole....Lots of Fools Gold out there in them thar hills.....Barry bdbutler@centurylink.net
BTW....I've also been trying to get my Pro Life Song some action.....but very tuff...It's called "I AM THE UNBORN...WHATCHA GONNA DO FOR ME"...Great back story and also my Journey form Pro Choice to Pro Life.

Hang in there Barry,

Just keep writn' them.

cheers, niteshift

Hi Brother Barry...

Hey, I respect You as a Fellow Writer/Musician, tryin' to Survive in these Troubled-Times. & I hope we'll see/hear More of Your Work here on the various Boards...

I truly enjoyed Your Video..as well as hearing Your Song-Offered here. Some really Great "Dreamers" were chosen...& who's to say those are the ONLY Dreamers who'll make it to Greatness.

Stay Inspired, Amigo...(While listening to Critics...& Improving).

It worked for Bob Dylan, a runnaway kid from Minnesota, I think, when he headed to NYC..got bashed-around..'til he Got It Right...

I think most Every Successful Person starts out with a Good Bashing...heh...so...Welcome to The Neighborhood, Amigo!

Best Wishes & a Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

Hey Stan....Thanks for you kind and inciteful message!
About a month ago I was sitting here in my so called Bedroom/Studio and was SO frustrated that I cried out "PLEASE GOD I NEED A MIRACLE"..Well in a flash I heard an audible voice say "YOU'VE ALREADY RECEIVE THE MIRACLE"..I almost fell off of my chair...the hair on the back of my neck was standing straight up...I'm positive it was a Voice and not in my head BUT...who knows. Anyway....it took a few days to calm down and realize what the message meant. He meant that the Gift was the Miracle...Well...I wrote the Song called "TALENT ON LOAN"...I'd like to share this with the group..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9wa8UC-XrE

Barry.....Sebring, Florida bdbutler@centurylink.net

Hey Barry,

Why don't you put up that tune on the mp3 board ? You get to get better feedback, and you can join the campfire and compare notes

cheers, niteshift

Stan,
Is that why Ive had no success? I haven't been bashed yet!!! PLEASE.... Feel free to remedy that situation. I'm ready when you are! Lol

Nothin' like a good bashing Caroline!

Good luck in your musical journey Barry.

Best, John

Barry,
Yes, it was a voice....they have medication for that now though....lol.

Good luck to you. I don't think that what you've shown was poorly done, I would probably go that route for a work demo. While I may not choose it for a pitch able demo it's not going to hurt a thing to have a place to start.

I do suggest you post something in the mp3 boards and ask for crits. It's a good way for us to see how you respond to criticisms as well as praise. It shows us your temperament and might make folks more willing to work with you. We all write or play and it's not hard to find someone to do what you're offering. The difference is in the total package, if one doesn't care for your disposition, you won't get the business you're looking for. Make an effort and you'll find a better reception.

Hi Barry/Folks-

I really feel for lyricists who need melodies, or those who have melodies in their heads, but do not play an instrument. It has to be a tough job finding a good musician/composer for their melodies.

First, one must have a great melody to get attention.
I concur with Dave Rice's feedback; I don't hear any delicious notes, soaring choruses or vocals, or any unique touching passages in the two songs posted here.

I do feel that Barry is entitled to advertise on any site he wishes.
I also feel the format he uses is OK, if one wishes to invest money on that level of work.

Barry, a couple suggestions I have are;
try writing & singing your tunes in higher keys... study hit songs, especially the choruses, pay attention to the dynamics of the song, and how the parts build and release emotions.

She loves you yeh yeh yeh yehhhh...
It doesn't hurt to end on a high note!

The 1st time I heard this song below, I wondered "who was that?"
"I have to find out and hear it again."
The 2nd time I heard it , I knew it would win a grammy; it did that year.
A great song, lyric and melody.
Of course the production is awesome.

I HOPE YOU DANCE- Lee Ann Womack

We all can't write perfect songs, but we sure can try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV-Z1YwaOiw&feature=channel&list=UL

Keep writing.

~C~