JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum CdBaby...on demo who can be listed as the artist?

Getting ready to list a tune on CdBaby I wrote with others that was done as a work for hire demo.

We do own the master rights to this tune having signed releases from all those involved in the performance.
Can I legally list the vocalist on this demo as the "artist" or
just use us as the composers to fill the artist slot.

Thanks
Larry

Hi Larry

I have some demos done and I can't offer up the tracks with the demo vocalist, without his/her permission. I can play them wherever I want, but am not allowed to make money from them as is.

I can understand this. 1 of my demo singers has had 3 big No.1 hits and is signed to a major record company. So I can name him (asked him first) but cant sell the tracks with his voice.

Some of my other demos, the vocalists have said they are ok with me selling or doing what I want.

I think you may have to get permission first.

Some of my demo singers dont want to be named as the vocalist (maybe they didnt like the song lol) so I just put demo or studio singer on them.

I hope that helps in some way.

God Bless Roy and Helen

Here's some things to think about...

Why are you attempting to sell a Demo? This is going to put you at a disadvantage to the plethora of music that is professionally produced and finished.

Do you have written permission from the singer to be able to sell the song? Owning the masters does not grant you permission from the performers.

Why not ask the singer if they're ok with it? If they are, then ask how they'd like to be credited. If they're not ok with it, you'll be opening yourself up to a legal nosebleed.

Ask yourself again: Why are you going to release a demo for sale? Think long and hard about that. Is it for boosting your own ego? Is it a vanity thing? Or is this demo so professional that it can stand up against other similar material?

Hey Roy...

Thanks for the input.

Larry

Hey Jody...

I appreciate your comments.
Yes, we believe it can hold its own against what is currently being
produced.
We have signed releases from all the performers involved as to the performance itself.
But your points are well taken.
If you have the time, listen to it and let us know if it is up to par as far as production quality (or anything else that comes to mind).

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=9995635&q=hi&newref=1

Truly appreciated...your opinion will be well respected.

Thanks,
Larry

I should qualify my previous post with saying that I'm not a mentor for the board, and this is the mentor area.

I took a moment to listen to the song. It's well done. There are aspects to the mix that I would personally change, but that is more to suit taste. There are some elements at the end of the song that get lost. Does it make me jump off the couch and want to own a copy, unfortunately not.

I hear this song as more of a soundtrack to some movie or TV show segment. I don't really hear it as a single. That is only my opinion.

One thing I'm relating this to is a song I co-wrote with someone a little while back. It had a very niche goal as a song idea, with a very pop style goal in production. To me the demo was exactly that, a demo. The co-writer felt it was releasable ready and wanted me to release it as a single under my name. I won't do it. It doesn't fit what I'm looking to do under my name. However, I have gotten that demo licensed. Additionally, somehow it's been discovered by the niche that it was intended for. If more money starts coming after the song, I will certainly pull it out, finish it up, then get it properly mastered for a release as a single under another name. This is all contingent on the song creating it's market - which it finally seems to be doing.

Same thing was done with another song that got licensed into a movie. It was properly recorded and mastered prior to the movie (there's a sorted story on that). Anyway, now it's got people coming to me for the song and it's not released. Am I missing sales? Maybe. But I don't like to speculate on that, since the demand isn't that heavy.

Where I'm going with that is, I'm not putting the cart before the horse. The demand of the song(s) is/are coming first. Especially since it's a single. It's a valuable lesson that I had to learn.

Hey Jody...

I understand...it was presented as a business/legal question but your experience is valued and when I saw your response I thought
it would be insightful and we appreciate that.
I have a lot of relatives in the military service and this tune was born from that.
A definite niche to be sure..it has been played before small groups and several thousand folks at rodeos and county fairs and people seemed to really connect with it.
It had great response but without a major artist behind it I realize it limits the potential.
But one thing I do know, if enough folks feel an emotional connection with the tune and when I sat in the audience and watched a couple hundred people wash tears from their eyes...I gotta think there's a chance if we can get it heard by those that control the gates.

Thanks for taking the time to listen.

Larry

Thanks Jody...

If you would give me an idea as to what would get you off the couch as an example I would consider that a real favor...Just asking for real not trying to be a smart ass...it would truly be helpful...

One more I wrote that would be cool if you had time for your thoughts....I promise I won't bug ya with anymore...

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=11033098&q=hi&newref=1

Thanks bud...

Larry

Hi Larry,
I'm not a mentor either, but I do have some insights.
It will be next to impossible to get this tune cut by a major artist. First of all, you would probably have to write it with the artist or somebody in his/her camp. Secondly, songs with this theme litter the gutters of Music Row. Come to Nashville for a week, and you'll see what I mean. You'll hear a take on this at least once at every writers' night. It's easy to think you're being original until you hear a dozen other people singing virtually the same song. Every publisher has heard this idea to death. I was at a pitch session one evening when a woman presented a "soldier off to war and missing the family" song. The publisher told her that he'd already heard enough of those kind of songs. The woman said "But, wait. This time the soldier is a woman and a mother." The publisher's response? "I've got four of those on my desk."
It's going to be hard to cut through the clutter on CD Baby. My suggestion would be to be ready to sell the song to folks while they're in the moment. Find a way to offer downloads or emailed mp3s that you can sell to people while the song is still fresh in their hearts and minds. Donate a percentage to military or patriotic causes. Use that as a marketing tool. Check out pitches for film and television.
I realize that none of this answers your question about who to list as the artist. You may be asking in the wrong place. Have you asked the folks at CD Baby? Also, if the singer is absolutely okay with you selling the song with his name on it, I would think that would be the way to go. The general public identifies with singers way more than they do with songwriters.
Kurt

Hey Kurt...


Thanks, you have truly given me the insights I need and some stellar advice as well.
And your experience as one who lives in that environment is truly appreciated.
You answered more than was asked...

One more question...what are they truly looking for...does anyone know...do they really know?
Say everything that has been said but in a different and creative way?...(Ya know inquiring minds...lol...)

Larry

If people signed releases to something designated as a demo, you may have a problems releasing that recording commercially. Unless I am mistaken, it does not sound like that is what they agreed to.
Apart from the use other than that to which the artist consented, you may have issues of use of another person's name or likeness for commercial purposes.
Be careful here. Safe move would be to go to the person(s) and get an appropriate release.
Interestingly, if you released it while crediting someone else with the contributions (the vocal, for example) of Joe Bloe, you could have legal problems with Mr. bloe for false attribution of credit.
Be careful. This biz can be a minefield. Speak with Mr. bloe and eliminate all the mines you can.

If you own the master, and everyone is a work for hire,
who is being promoted?

For example, Sergio Mendes doesn't sing, but he's the "artist",
it's his band, his concept, etc.

So, it's your call.


Pat Hardy Lockwood