JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Demo quality important to plug songs?

I am not negative I am positive.....I am positive that the industry sucks.....the rich get even richer by exploiting the poor folks who actually produce the ideas and provide the product....how the suits manage to control and successfully exploit that whole system beats me.
I accept what you say Moker about finding a way to get into the system.....all that you say about staying positive and thoughtful ways to get noticed etc is true...it does not change the fact that the biz is corrupt and deeply unfair....just because some people can make a crumb from the cake does not mean that the cake is divided equally or fairly....it is a case of finding a way to join em cause you sure cannot beat em....and it certainly does not mean that we cannot talk about the system and express opinions about how powerless we are to change things....just because some folk get a cut does not mean the system aint broken.

Toxicrose,
more than one have made it their way, and there sure as hell are alot of avenues for a writer to pursue these days, good luck and keep us posted how it's goin!

Big Jim,
the music industry is a mature industry...not unlike many industries they expand , expand, more companies, and then they hit a wall and start buying up the competition and consolidating to achieve growth once again...in the case of the record label industry once they consolidated they have in effect bought out the competition and have greater controls on lining pockets for airplay, popularity, and TV Award shows! You are one of the guys I know fortunate enough to have some real talent that you can market in many ways...as you well realize the "broken system" comglomerates is a pretty futile effort to break in to. That said, music is still alot of fun and feels good when I write something I think is done well...if it's real good I still try and take it to the best level I can. Fortunately there is a whole realm of avenues for music other than just big machine. Most of the alternative avenues ain't puttin' anyone's name in lights...ha...they can produce some satisfaction and an occasional paycheck though... and truly I enjoy our spirited discussions on a variety of topics...Be Well...mj

Moker,

Hey, dude, thanks. I'm pretty good at figuring how to get around things I think are unfair. Like that cookie jar. As soon as my Mum said: "Don't touch that thing without permission." Ya know I HAD to see if I could get away with it. I mean, "they" got to go into it anytime they wanted those beautiful cookies! Just because they were taller than me?

I was on the Zoetrope website, the screenwriting site -- yeah, I write scripts, have a H'wood agent, the whole bit -- put up by Frances Ford Coppola. When you first sign-up you HAVE to read from the "READ PAGE". That's where really clunky scripts are put so the newbees HAVE TO READ THEM before they're able to read "real scripts"; you know, one of those sites where the membership -- all of them wannabe's, no one but maybe three out of 12000 has ever had a script optioned let alone bought, let alone even more produced, let alone even more than that, released -- the community reviews your script after you've reviewed theirs...humm, how does that work? People giving you "insight" on how to be a better, more successful professional and none of them have even had a "real insider" read one of their scripts; has never had professional, studio "coverage" of any of their scripts.

I found a way around all their petty crap like that. I got booted from the site because: "You don't follow the rules!"

"Really? I'm an ARTIST you moron! Artists think OUTSIDE YOUR STUPID BOXES!" Nor a single "sysop" there has ever had a script placed; I've written scripts for Miami Vice before. Hummm, what's wrong with that picture?

I'll keep plugging a way to burrow in like a tick on one of those fatcats bumms. When I'm inside "the gate", I'll find away to get others inside as well.

Moker I agree I make a living from music doing my own thing in my own way....I have no need to crawl to the MAN for handouts...I do it my way.....hey what a great title for a song.

I do think quality is important. I've heard industry people say it doesn't matter, but I personally suspect otherwise.

You can make professional demos with an application called "Band In A Box". What it has is a database of pro musicians playing riffs & chords over every concievable chord progressions in every conceivable style ( called "realtracks" ) . You just input the chords , tempo, and "style", and it quilts together an impromptu arrangement drawn from the wav audio database to match your chords and tempo and style selected. Search my songs on this forum, they were all done with this app, and it cost me nothing but a few hours of studio time to lay down the vocals. Studios these days charge only around $30 - $50 an hour. Just provide the engineer with the wav files generated by BIAB on a disk, lay down the vocals, and you're done in less that two hours of studio time. Now, if your song requires special licks, a very specific type of arrangement, BIAB doesn't do this, but what it does do, it does very well.

Hey Pat, welcome to JPF!! Quality absolutely matters. Where many songwriters make their mistake is when they worry about the quality of the recording but not the song.

Tocix, Hi and welcome!

My take on the demos are the same as if applying for any job. How each person handles that may have a direct result on the outcome, but with other factors coming into "play", obviously.
It's ALL "Presentation". All of it counts in one way or another. So why not do the best to present in the best ways possible, no matter what we "think" it should be?

My take on the name thing is this: Just Plain Folks is the site's name. Brian started his quest for networking with people first by arranging to meet people in person to write songs together, for fun. He would meet those people and they would exchange their names,,,ya know, being personal about it. If you were to be one of those writers who Brian came to your house or a place of meeting with others to meet, what name would you say out loud to introduce yourself? "Whatever" that name would be for that personal meeting of like minded songwriters is all that Brain ever asks of us to do here. This site is a replacement for actually meeting in person, but to have it be as close to that experience as possible. Friends networking and helping each other. As if friends in our livingroom with our image left outside. It's not a business here, to be viewed in a business or stage name thing. That's for the public. Our motto here is, "We're all in this together", courtesy of Brian, the founder.

This is not a site like Facebook or whatever. We just try to "relate" with each other as just plain folks!

Again, welcome!

Thanks!

Johnny, (John Alan Daubert), aka John, Daub, Johnny D, dhsongs, and other names I can't print without getting it covered with symbols!

You can call me anything. But, at least you know I am personal with ya, giving my usual out of business/stage name, unless I had changed my name to be like that of Elton John or many others going that route. I guess even their loved ones call them those NEW stage names! THAT is the only point of the name thing. Whatever your family and friends call you,,,we would like to know that, and feel like we are included in your circle of them. Nothing more to it than that.

Hope you stay and become a part of our family of sorts. How would your family address you? (NO,,,not Shthead I hope)!

Johnny

I never thought quality was that important for my stuff -- but I do hold everyone else to very high standards!

Kelvin

Absolutely. There is so much competition that you need every advantage you can get. When someone is screening songs, it is easy for they to just throw out a poor quality recording during the intro.

It you are going to do it, do it right.

TFunk

If someone does not know that the quality of a demo is not just important but crucial then it says three things about them


1. They do not know the music business.

2. They are not professional in their standards or outlook.

3. They probably never have nor ever will get taken seriously or even be noticed by the folk who's opinions count.

Anyone wanting to aspire to anything in this business MUST at least be on the same level as the competition who consistantly produce........great songs...great performances....and last but by no means least great production.

Quality is definitely important... if wish it wasn't.

But if an A&R person listens to your song, they are not going to make an effort and try to find diamond in it. Your song either grabs them in the first few seconds or it doesn't and they are on to the next one...

Amazingly silly question when you think of it. Not trying to be rude or disrespectful with my response to you Harrogate but to quote an old cliché you only get one chance to make a first impression. Usually that’s all of 15 seconds.

The only funny part of most of this conversation is that those who often yell the loudest that commercial music is terrible and it's all about marketing etc. usually can't write or perform a decent song to save their lives in the first place, so they deflect that obvious shortcoming by blaming everyone but themselves for their lack of success.

Art, and the quality of it, is solely in the eyes/ears/minds of the observer. Commerce, and the success of it, on the other hand is a tangible thing which can be measured, duplicated and proven. When someone argues either of those points, usually they either haven't educated themselves, or they are looking for someone else to blame or simply a windmill to tilt at.

To answer the original question: A great vocal performance along with a wonderfully recorded and performed guitar track of a truly outstanding song IS in fact, enough to start. Rarely does anyone have all 3 of those things, not to mention the last part of the equation and that is a good reason why someone needs to care or give YOU, above and instead or in place of all others, their time to listen to it or consider it for anything over the dozens or hundreds of people well ahead of you in that line. But IF you are, in truth, legitimately at the front of the line and the person receiving your recording WANTS to hear it, then a great vocal/guitar demo recorded excellently of a GREAT song is enough.

If you disagree with that, then I can't help you further,nor can many other people on the planet.

Brian

Brian makes sense. Does anyone really believe that Paul McCartney needed anything more than "Yesterday" and a guitar or "Let it Be" and a piano to convince George Martin that it would sell a few records if professionally produced and recorded?

Beware of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Thanks, Mike. I'd never heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect. So I looked it up. Now I've got one more thing to worry about. Though I've got to admit, anecdotal evidence sure seems to support their view. And it definitely explains why so many politicians seem so sure of themselves!