JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum The US Bounced A Check

After printing 600 Billion dollars in money that was not backed by gold or labor, the bounced check has come in. Grocery prices are rising, gas may be $6 per gallon by summer. The American dollar may be worth less than the paper and ink.

Didn't anyone see this coming?

No. but here in Canada, not much better. Voting On May 2, Federal Election. IN power - Conservative, want them out.

They want private health care insurance, We don't want that, no one here can afford private insurance; and not all things covered as we know with all insurance.

Help us!

Miz. Petra

Back to the horse and buggy.

P

It's called quanitative easing which in essence means printing money. Feels good, looks good, smells awful!!!

Hey..new get-rich quick scheme: Invest in WHEELBARROWS... (Anyone remember the German Situation near the end of WW2?)

MAY have to use 'em for Transportation, TOO..the way Gas keeps inching-UP. (Europe's averagin' $6.50 a Gallon, I've heard.) DAYUM this Global Economy, Eh?

BW/Big Hugs,
Stan

We all have to pay for the bounced check. Universally.

How's that "hope and change" thing going?

hope and change....isn't that when you smell a dirty diaper and you hope the baby's mom changes it

DOWNSIZE : )



how many tvs do ya own
how many cars
how many cell phones
and how many guitars.........


well I'm guilty --- but I'm recycling and reusing all that I can.......



PS edit Stan --- wheel Barrels - I believe !

Thank's for that Joice, but I don't see downsizing as being forced to sell these things.

Post deleted by Petra

Well Ben Ya won't believe this BUT when good ole Lyndon Johnson became Prez and got Medicare passed, I thought to myself, Johnson just told the Doctors how much they could charge. I voted for the other guy.

I was Stationed in Corpus Christi, Tx at the time. I was an elisted man. A young Ensign stepped up to me and said, with a smirk, Well Johnson is President now, we will never have to worry about our Welfare again. Famous last words, no? They shot the wrong man.

I bounced a check once or twice in college. Heck, I might bounce a few this year.

[naughty word removed] happens.

The Donald has declared business bankruptcy four times, I think. He says it is a useful debt re-structuring tool. Maybe if he his elected president, he'll give it a try for us.

Kevin

I'm glad you mentioned The Donald's bankruptcies Kevin. A lot of people I know who bemoan much poor people taking bankruptcy love the Donald. When I mention his bankruptcies, they get mad or don't believe me.

The first check I ever wrote bounced. I think it's the only bounced check I've ever had. My siblings have had many $1.00 bounced checks in their lives. What happened with me was, I bought a shirt and returned it. I paid for it with a check. My refund was in cash. In my young mind, I figured they got the shirt back, I got the money back, and that was square. I forgot the check still had to go to the bank.

Too bad that we have to pay higher prices now.

Anyone who blames this mess on just one party or the other is full of it. BOTH parties created the environment for this to happen. Canadians apparently are blaming their conservative govt, and here in the USA, our ever speeding up collapse is under Democrat (i.e. liberal) leadership. But before either current govt. in either country, the opposite party also created the problem and kicked the can forward. That has to stop.

The ONLY relevent question in the next elections are which candidate is likely to do more of the same, and which are more likely to stop the bi-partisan policies that have created this.

For me personally, I wish a truly independent candidate could win and break the two cartels (i.e. Right and Left) in our country and just do what is right for people who pay for everything, rather than those who ONLY take, whether they are GE an their billions in profits (plus billions in additional corporate handouts) without paying taxes, OR able bodied men and women who live off handouts on the other end of the spectrum. (And to be clear, more white americans get welfare than other races, so it's NOT racist to cut handouts to all but the truly disabled or otherwise unable to work in any productive way to help themselves). I am also for anyone getting unemployment or welfare to be required to show up at 8am for full time work hours even if it is just sitting quietly in a chair for the same minimum length of time those who WORK for a living have to spend doing actual labor. Do not make the poor comfortable in their state, so they'll do anything to become productive. I would also allow people to work and make an income if they work full time (40 hours) but fall short in earnings to survive to still qualify for help. In many cases, it costs more to work than to not work in terms of benefits received versus salaries earned. That needs to stop. I'd much rather help someone working full time helping our country be productive than someone sitting on their butt doing nothing. Able bodied people should have a short term safety net, but after that short time, they need at least to show up and prove they are not just sitting around playing XBox, watching TV, getting high, hanging with friends etc. Instead, they could be taking free job training programs, reading classes (if needed) other educational support during those hours that others are working to help elevate them to employable levels. If they refuse, then no more handouts. For me it seems not only fair, but the only rational way to help people elevate out of being at the bottom of the rung in our society. I predict we'd find a large number would instead choose to still not work hard, but they'd at least not be getting paid to voluntarily do nothing productive.

Brian

I hope nobody here (or in America) seriously believes "The Donald" is a serious contender for the highest office in the land. This guy is more full of hubris than Obama and does not deserve even being considered. Sure, he will run... until the money dries up. We don't need another "nut job" in the White House.

Yes, Ben... our Tax and Spend Government (both sides of the aisle) is gonna raise the debt ceiling again. They never seem to get the message. We're broke! The Chinese Own us. Nikita Kruschev was right. They are gonna bury us... and we're giving them the shovel.

Well said, Brian. I'm sick of our two party system and all this silly posturing. We need statesmen... not professional politicians and lawyers in our government. Let's hope that the "Tea Party" becomes a viable political entity that will not be controlled by a "network of wealthy politicians" in back rooms and penthouses. We need change (not Obama chump change) and we need it now. Tighten up your belts, Washington. It's time!

Well,
I have said a time or two, Google Pogo and find out who the Real Enemy is. And I have no doubt the people will ride this horse right into the ground until we are right back to the 1930's again. But hey, Gas Prices here are still slightly below $4.00 a Gallon. I, (we), my wife and I are still trying to beat the Wolf to the door. Not sure who is going to win this race.

And Brian, it was democrats that put all those big Social Programs in place, not republicians that are now full of tons of red ink. So stop blaming both sides. Oh well, no use in crying over spilled milk, or red ink as it were. We are in the soup to be sure.

Brian, there is another component to it all. We need someone with some backbone to bring our jobs back home to us. Make welfare "workfare". Equates to something FOR something. Not something for nothing.

Incidentally, The Donald wouldn't be so bad after 4 years of becoming a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

ha, ha, ha -- that's a good one.

Post deleted by Petra

The Rich ALREADY rule here/only a fool would think Otherwise.

The Treacherous Part, politically, is...they CAN afford to move-away to Tax Havens IF our Elected Officials TRY to change the Status-Quo. (See how many English Rock Stars still live in England..for-examples of What Happens.)

Which means the Near-Rich & Middle Class'll ALWAYS get Stuck with The Bills. $6 a gallon for Gas doesn't impact a bit on the Wealthy/The smarter ones own lots of Oil Stock, so they get a profit on the price rises anyways.

Moral of The Story: Get Rich as fast as ya can..since it's OUR Taxes that'll get raised to Cover The Shortfalls. Otherwise, yep..gonna be a Long Haul Ahead.

JMO. BW/Big Hugs,
Stan

Post deleted by Petra

$1.33 per liter for gasoline, here.

P.

What's a liter... LOL!

...and by the way, what's wrong with being rich? I've tried to climb out of this massive crater of poorness all my life!

Heck, I wish everyone could be rich... except "The Donald" and his alter-ego, Barack Hussein Obamalamacomma! (Just kidding, CIA!)

Dave,

Nothing wrong being rich, as long as folks don't get big egos like Trump.

As long as one pays due tax.

Hey Dave, I though you were already rich! Looking for a donation here heeeheee.LOL

Hey 3L equates to one gallon. Hence cost of gasoline here.
Hey the spell check don't pop up unless you submit come back and then edit.

U are sooooosoooooo Funny.

U exaggerate your plight I think, how much money do you want $1,000,000?

Better start playing the superball.

Want some numbers here you go;

7, 11, 12, 18, 23, 35, 39,

If you win I get half LOL

Petra,

I haven't seen folks from the US trying to run down candidates from YOUR country in your next election, how about you focus on fixing your own problems and leave us to ours? Canadians should be happy, your money is worth the most it has perhaps ever been (certainly in my memory) versus the US dollar. I used to visit Canada and at times our dollar was worth $1.25 or more Canadian. Now the Canadian dollar is worth roughly $1.05 US Dollars. And in Canada, you guys are more than happy to drill for oil and sell it to the US. We get 1/3 of our oil from North America, much of it from Canada.

By the way, at 1.33 per liter Canadian, that means, with conversion (3.79 liters to the gallon) and the difference in currency values, that you are now paying $5.29 US per gallon of gas. Makes our $4.00 per gallon sound much better. But since the overwhelming majority of your entire population lives within 100 miles of the US border, as long as you have a passport, you could much more cheaply fill up here in the US and save a LOT of money.

But I digress, since most other countries have their own long list of problems, I always find it annoying to have outsiders weigh in on our politics. We don't tell you who to elect (though we certainly prefer the latest leaders of France, the UK, Israel and Canada than some previous leaders even though our current president has turned his back on all our biggest allies) it's really none of our business to get involved in your elections before they happen and try and influence the outcome. Unless you are a US citizen, who cares what you think of our candidates? You don't vote here. (Excepting the illegals from all countries who are registered and using US citizen stolen IDs).

Brian

Tricia,

I'd still prefer something for TIME, so that anyone on aid must spend at least 40 hours away from their home and children and losing all that personal time just like those who work, pay taxes and pay their welfare have to do. They should be looking for work, learning job skills and there is PLENTY of infrastructure work for able bodied men and women to do. Anything one able bodied man or woman can do, any able bodied man or woman can do when it comes to physical labor. Lots of trash to pick up everywhere, lots of roads to fix, signs to paint, buildings to paint, landscaping to do, every community could use volunteer labor for loads of projects. Want welfare? Go to work. For those who can't physically do tough manual work but can function, then a nice volunteer desk job (plenty of phone bank work). For those who can't mentally and physically function (i.e. the totally disabled), they deserve support and care long term. I think that is totally fair to everyone. If you don't show up, are late more than 3 times (like any normal job), cause trouble or don't work hard you are fired from benefits and on your own. That's as fair as it gets.

I also think that illegal drug and over the legal limit alchohol testing should take place and if you fail, you're out for 1 year until you've demonstrated you are clean with monthly testing. Also 100% fair. If you're an addict, you can go to prison (for using illegal drugs) and dry up there cold turkey with reasonable medical assistance. You'll still be expected to work for your food and board. Prisoners should also have to work (and many do) if they want anything beyond a cell, a bed, food and a uniform. Want TV time? Work. Want books to read? Work. Want time with visitors? Work. Unwilling to work for your food? we'll offer a feeding tube for nutrition until you decide you'd like to earn your keep while you pay your debt to society.

I believe in a safety net for people... but it should come with heavy strings attached and a lot of personal responsibility. Uninterested in that? Then work it out on your own and leave tax payers alone.

Also, no subsidies for any business. I'd also offer the same health care to all government workers now offered to members of the military, only not for free. In reverse, I'd offer military members in actual harms way the level of health benefits for them and their families that US Senators and Presidents get. Also, NOT special benefits of any kind including retirement to politicians. We don't want them to spend their careers in government work. We want them to come for a short time and then go back to normal work like everyone else. I'd also be for double length sentences and penalties for any lawmakers who break those same laws compared to everyone else who must follow them. If they can't follow the laws they create, they should lead by example and serve time doing the same hard labor as the rest. The time for having law breakers in offices (the list of lawbreakers from BOTH parties in current office is a national disgrace!). I also think any serious criminal conviction should cost you voting rights for life.

And while we're at it, a balanced budget ammendment should be in effect immediately. And if circumstances cause us to have to surpass the budget (natural disasters, war etc.) taxes should go up immediately upon occurence to pay for it. I think all medicaid/medicare/social security monies should have to be set aside in each budget and not touched period. I also think we should return to either a Gold standard or some other precious metal or commodity (steel, copper, rare earth minerals, oil etc.) to back our money going forward. I'd also dismantle the Fed immediately. Financial corruption should result in life sentences of hard labor for anyone found fixing the stock market, insider trading, bank fraud resulting in loss of value to shareholders should have to be paid back by those who did it, or they should serve out their lives paying as much of it back as possible behind bars. Accepting bribes as a government official should result in a life sentence. Accepting money from a foreign entity to influence our government should result in a life sentence for treason.

It's time to get the criminals out of our government. I also think we should either have a 100% equal trade balance with a country, or we should tax their products to make up the difference plus 20% on top. That way US workers can get back to work MAKING things instead of just BUYING things. The IRS should be disbanded and replaced with a one page flat tax. The only changes must be to the flat percentage paid by a level of income and nothing else and must be passed by congress.

Would any of these things, all of which I feel are fair and reasonable, (like expecting out politicians not to be crooks and not to be lifetime politicians with no clue what the real world is like) ever be passed? Probably not. But I have to wonder why not? Why can't things be fair for a change?

Brian

I was told Donald is not even a candidate yet, take out his politics, I am talking about his character. I am free to do so.

Yes media do and so do the average joe,do talk about our candidates all the time and talk about our policies. Nothing new here. Everyone talks about other countries and their politics.

If you do not allow it here, fine; wish rules would be posted;
Like no talking on religion,
No Canadian talking about America Politicians.

maybe I haven't found them yet,then my fault then. It is your site and can do what you want. Would of avoided any mention The Donald.I can' influence anybody. If anybody that knows me would laugh at that, can't get them to do anything I want.


Anyways,

Miz. Petra





P.

Well enough said. We do have some Americans here and they are very nice and like to discuss politics on both sides. Never take
it personal.





P.

BEN--

I've seen it coming for a long time--Remember when a cup of coffee cost a nickel?

That five cents was backed by GOLD--Our money is a promise that someone in the future generations can fulfill the promise backed by NOTHING--Capitalism works on a hidden premise of smoke and mirrors--connected to growth of our ASSETS and the VALUE OF OUR TECHNOLOGY, with, and tied to our ability to MANUFACTURE THE GOODS! Inflation and time COUPLED WITH GLOBAL ENDEAVORS, have dwindled the DOLLAR down to 7.5 cents of 1955 MONEY--SO BASICALLY WE ARE BROKE!

Brian is right--It's all the generations of NEGLECT to fine tune AMERICAS' ENGINE and keep HER runing on all cylinders, that has us in THIS BIG MESS--

BIG GOVERNMENT WILL NEVER IMPROVE the needs of the people--TO MANY PEOPLE WAITING IN LINE FOR HANDOUTS AND PAYBACKS (GRAFT). THE WORKING PEOPLE -- MIDDLE CLASS--IS SLIPPING INTO: MIDDLE CLASSLESSNESS --ROME LASTED 400 YEARS--HOW LONG DO WE HAVE--AT MY AGE IT DOESN'T LOOK TOO PROMISING!

I'M TRYING TO FIGURE HOW I CAN AFFORD A NISSAN LEAF--ALL ELECTRIC….WELL…………IF WE DIG A HOLE DEEP ENOUGH, WE'LL ALL BE IN CHINA--CHEERS!!!

Mackie

Petra,

Your viewpoints are as welcome as anyone elses here. It is a global economy.

Kevin

Kevin and Petra,

Elections are heated enough here among actual US voters that we don't need foreign interests stirring the pot and making things worse. I think you should spend your political energy fixing your own problems in Canada. For example the amazingly high gas prices you identified in this post. That's pretty shocking when Canada has more than enough oil for their own needs. Go attack folks (or perhaps applaud folks if you're anti oil in your country) and sway them whatever way you like. You can't vote in the US Election, so what you think means nothing except to those who already agree with you. No minds will change because an open mind will quickly realize that you're interests lie with another country and what is best for them. It's clear our inept current government has caused the Loonie Canadian dollar which has trailed the usually more valuable US dollar for much of the time since 1949. In fact, in 2002 1 US dollar got you over $1.60 in Canadian dollars. Since 2007 (when the Democrats first controlled all of congress) all that has changed however when the US dollar bottomed out at .92 Canadian per US Dollar. As of today, it continues to be miserable at .94 Canadian per US Dollar. That's a giant change. So frankly, I am not interested in Canadian influence, big or small, on who will next lead our country because it is in your interest to keep the US leadership as weak as possible. Most Americans WANT the US to do well (though I have to wonder how anyone of any political bent other than communists/marxists, muslim extremists, various enemies of the state or anarchists thinks we're doing well now), but it would certainly be questionable to think Canadians want to pay $1.60 Canadian Loonies/Dollars per US Dollar. But Americans sure should be wishing our currency was that valuable again. If someone has no reason to hope for our success, why should we want their views on our election?

And for the record, your (Petra) comments haven't been deleted on this post. You got your say, I got mine. If you disagree, make your argument on why you disagree, but don't play victim because it seems like you want freedom to say what you want, but don't think I should have the same?

Brian

I don't really think it's got anything to do with politics at all. Big business really couldn't care less which faction is in power.Even in a recession they will still make money.

The lower US dollar should be good for US exporters, and an export driven recovery is not such a bad idea.

It worked here in Oz, but now the Oz dollar has gone too high, and interest rates will have to be put up to counter inflation.

And who looses ? Yep, once again it's Mr and Mrs Average who are footing the bill through higher gas and food prices.

Unelievable. It's time to be Mr Poor..... or Mr Rich. Not Mr Inbetween.

cheers, niteshift

In the UK Petrol prices are more than double that of the USA at around £1.40 per litre (approx $2.32 US per litre) or $8.79 per US gallon this will give folks something to think about when bleating about the high US fuel costs.

We're all in this together!*















* Some restrictions apply

You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till it takes a day's wages to buy a day's worth of food. We still only pay about 15 to 20% of wages on food, while some countries pay 85% to 90% of what they earn for food. But don't touch the oil and the wine, the rich will be ok, it's the poor that suffers. But one day gold will be trampled under foot, worthless.

The Canadian imperial gallon is 160 ounces while the Americam gallon is 128 ounces, a litre is about 32 ounces, close to the American quart, so in Canada, if you want to figure out how many miles you are getting to the gallon, you have to be a bit of a mathematician, first converting kilometers into miles and then litres into gallons,etc.LOL OH my head.

Looks like we are headed for another minority goverment in Canada
with the NDP the official opposition. Could be very interesting.

Yeah Everett I cannot be bothered converting sterling to dollars and litres to gallons and then gallons to the USA shortchanged gallon. I just know that petrol and diesel is way way way more expensive here than elsewhere. Not only is there heavy tax and duty to pay but they then add VAT on as well. Cigs have gone up to over £7 for a pack of twenty and beer is over £3 per pint....now I mean a full pint not the US half measure pint.
The three things I cannot live without are Fuel beer and cigs and each one is taxed to the hilt. They all cost pennies to produce but are taxed to hit the pocket of the working man.

You're right there Big Jim, the working man has always had to come to the party and bail out the "wealthy".

What gets to me about bail outs, is that all the Western ships are tendered to each other, and slowly sinking together. Then one will bail out, and throw the water in another to which he's tied.

Just look at those PIGS ( Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain ) Almost collapsed the whole EU monetary system.

Then there's the US printing money.... and the Chinese who woefully undervalue their currency, and the Japanese who hijacked technology, then the Norwegians who became bankers from fishermen overnight and won't repay their sterling debt, and....

So it goes on.

Is there a small South Pacific island nation somewhere where the local currency is banana skins and they don't tax beer and ciggys ?

I'm there !

cheers, niteshift

I think it's 3.79 Liters to a US Gallon.

I agree that the gas prices suck in the UK. My understanding it that it's simply a matter of massive taxes added to the actual cost. But when your entire country (or Kingdom in this case) is smaller than many of our states, it's simply a matter of massive distance that must be traveled to do most things, especially business if you care to visit in person multiple locations, have face to face meetings etc. Many people are shifting to Skype and other similar options which to me makes sense. But the distance the average worked in the US must travel to get to work is much farther than in the UK. And due to the massive size, building a truly connected train system just doesn't work. The only cities where public mass transit really works is NYC, Chicago and possibly 3-5 others with lesser systems. In some very large systems there's barely even bus options. Los Angeles is so spread out you have no choice but to have a car if you hope to work most jobs. Once outside of a major (i.e. top 10-15 city) you're screwed without cars, gasoline and drive times. We visited a large number of the biggest city in the UK and Ireland on one 5 week trip. In the US, you could spend 5 weeks visiting Texas and see less of it. (It's 1000 miles across).

We're also being short sighted in terms of how much oil is used in everything else in life. Medicines, Food, Plastic, Fabric and other materials etc. Without oil we're all screwed world wide. Fortunately my family is good friends with a small religious group in the USA called the Amish (not sure if they are also common in the UK or elsewhere). But they are found in many US States and life without electricity or any modern conveniences. Last Christmas a young Amish family near my parents house caught fire in the chimney and roof area and we all rushed (in our cars thankfully) to get there quickly to help them put it out. Fortunately before we could even do much, the young father had climbed up on the roof and inside the area of the chimney and put it out with no lights or modern tools (like a metal bucket to hold water) and he had to pump water manually with a hand pump outside to get water into his wooden buckets. All that to say they know how to live without Oil. And observing their lives, it is clearly how we'll all be living if and when it's gone, not just to drive cars (which is actually a waste of a much more valuable resource) but to have anything we think of as modern. Most foods come from 100's of miles away or more (I can't remember the number and I apologize if it is wrong, but it seems I saw a story that the average meal in the USA has traveled over 1500 miles to get to your table. And we live in the farm belt (and I grew up on a farm run by grandparents and then parents). Now they have a new farm in the south of the state away from civilization, but right next to the Amish who can probably keep us from starving. The problem for me personally is I will be long gone first because of the medicines I take and the high tech required to make them, which is heavy on oil to create.

And finally, I watched a 60 minutes special on a religious monastery (one of the oldest I think) in Greece which has no cancer or heart disease of any kind among it's monks. The Amish also have very little health problems (but do, to their credit, take young children to modern hospitals to save their lives, which I admire because a childs life outweighs a religious contradiction in my view). The also don't have welfare (nor need it). They take care of their elderly and sick and share anything needed. They build each others homes and barns and help bring in each others crops. I am not saying I would WANT their lifestyle, but I think sometimes we might want to inch a bit closer to them. Perhaps oil should be saved for medicines and products critical to survival until/unless we find a viable alternative which wind power and solar power (both scams at this point as solar panels often require enormous resources and oil to build and rarely can even pay for themselves or adequately light up a homes needs, let alone a towns. But I disgress. Also in the US, we are acting like morons by burning highly polluting corn ethanol (which is far different than the superior sugar based fuel made in Brazil) which, even if we used 100% of our corn supply would not cover a tiny low single digit % of our gasoline needs. Still digressing...

I love the public transportation in Paris, but get outside of it and unless you're on a train line, it's still hard to get around. Same with Chicago and NYC. But we need cheap gas (under US $4) or our economy can't survive. Our food has for practical purposes gone up 20% in the last year. If you used the inflation numbers used in the USA until 1980 (back in the Carter years) our inflation this year is already 10%. (They removed food and gas from calculations... how convenient). Our fat lazy corrupt government on both sides has ruined us. It may take a sweeping non violent uprising among voters to replace all incumbents in both parties to even START fixing the problems. These folks have proven they can't do the job.

Brian

Brian

Hey Brian,

Yeah, gotta agree with the simplicity thing. Not as radical as the Amish perhaps, but simpler all the same would be better.

It's interesting to note your comments about distance, and fuel prices. We're at $1.50 AUS per litre. And whe're whining. That's because, like the US, there's a lot of distance between towns.

Big Jim lives in Scotland. That's just down the road, and around the corner from England. Too easy. And they have a great public transport system in the UK. You have things called feet. And trains too.

cheers, niteshift

Brian I watched a program on the Amish communities in the USA. I am sorry to disagree but the picture painted was far from rosy. They came across as weird ignorant and almost obsessive about their values to the point of utter hypocracy. They banish people who they see as sinners yet send their kids out to experience the outside world get drunk and take drugs before returning to their life of abstinance. One guy an ex Amish was trying to help those Amish who were banished. Sadly these people were so indoctrinated that they felt they had no future and were worthless. Even the society he was trying to create were so steeped in the rituals they could not cope with the conflictions between them and their ex community.

Nite and Brian distance is relative. I bet that most people regardless of countries travel about the same distance to work. There are folk who live in cities and folk who live in the country but all have jobs in their own locality usually. Lots of people in the UK commute to work and some may even travel longer distances than the average Aussy or American. An interesting fact is that only around 20% of the US population have passports. An ex president Mr Bush I am reliably informed did not even have a passport so had never set foot outside Amercia till he became president and even then was reluctant to travel abroad.
In the UK around 70% of the population have passports. The point I am making is simple.... any country with the majority of the population having never set foot outside their own country and in a lot of cases their own state becomes insular and perhaps ignorant about the outside world and its workings. Now before I get accused of being an American hater I will state that nothing could be further from the truth. I just think that from time to time some insular Americans need reminding that they are not the greatest and the system they think is so great is far from perfect. They might realise just how similar or vastly different other countries are before judging them from their own insular experiences and narrow minded viewpoints.

Ah yeah, but Jim, the vast majority of Aussies have passports. That's because we live at the ass end of the world, and like to travel.

Have you ever been to a continent ? ( Apart from Europe ?) Trust me bud, thry're damn HUGE...... unlike the pissy little island which you call home. And don't berate me here, I'm from NZ, about the same size as the UK.

The logistics are quite different.

I think I might walk 500 miles to Scotland. Couldn't do it here. You'd die ( and people do ) in the desert.

cheers, niteshift

AH Good old Edinburgh guys the Proclaimers "I would walk 500 miles" I bet they couldn't.
But if you want to give it a try I will follow you in my car just to make sure you do not take a wrong turning and end up over a cliff.
JFI I am pretty well travelled....and have visited continents outside Europe....but we will not go into all that. I do not think I could ever enter Thailand again......after being kicked out.
A pal of mine is a world champ lawn bowler and on a recent visit to Aus had a match cancelled because it was "Sunned off" too hot to play in the heat.
People die all the time here from exposure. They get caught up a mountain or in countryside and freeze to death when the weather changes. We can get four seasons weather in a single afternoon here in Scotland.

Good grief ! 'Sunned off ' It must have been damn hot !

We won't mention Thailand.

Yes, damn tourists should be shot before we have to get out the rescue teams to shoot them.... I mean..... save them.

And now, back to the price of petrol, and a major economy printing monry.......

cheers, niteshift

Hi Petra and fellow JPFrs:

Petra, I hope I did not accidentally "lead you down the primrose path" and get you into trouble with JPF Management! That was not my purpose. I don't take offense at you taking a fun-filled pot shot at our US system of government. After all, it's a free world and I've tried to learn that if something offends me, just ignore it. JPF is first and foremost a music oriented site as far as I'm concerned... and everything else (including this thread) is just idle conversation.

Brian, I take full responsibility for the turn our conversation took and please feel free to "unload" on me... not Petra. She has envlivened the conversation(s) on many threads and is a welcome addition to our JPF family. I admire the way she is unafraid to ask questions about things she does not understand at the risk of being ridiculed or belittled. The lady has a "brave heart" and a great attitude.

Regards to all,

Dave

If you are a working stiff, you pay 6.2% of your earnings to the payroll tax plus 1.45% tax for Medicare. Your employer pays the same so each pay 7.65 percent. If your employer didn't pay his portion, he could pay you 7.65% more than he does so you really pay both parts. So if you are so unlucky as to have to work for a living, you pay the Federal government 15.3% of everything you earn before you pay a cent of federal or State income tax. There are no loopholes, no exemptions, no nothing- you will pay. If you make more than about $110,000 per year, you don't have to pay that tax on earning over $110,000. The payroll tax is a tax on the poor- no two ways about it. Do you want real reform? Then how about making wealthy taxpayers and corporations pay this tax without the present limits. Oh, but you say a corporation isn't a human being. Yes, it gets all the benefits of a person, so tax the son-of-a-bitch just like the rest of us.

Don't forget these taxes:

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the money)
Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and
local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer Registration Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

And the worst tax of them all - INFLATION - the hidden tax.

I would place the total tax burden on the average Joe to be closer to 50% of his wages.

I agree with most of what Brian stated, especially: "I believe in a safety net for people... but it should come with heavy strings attached and a lot of personal responsibility" -Brian

I would venture to guess we would have a lot less people on welfare and collecting unemployment compensation if they had to work for it. The way the system is set up there's no incentive to go job hunting.

I'll probably be sorry for joining a political debate. I've been a Libertarian since I was old enough to vote. Even though there are a few bugs in their serum as well.

John

and IF you don't wanna pay you can become like Ed Brown and his wife --- imprisoned....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244759,00.html

Damn John,
Now you went and ruined my whole day. I think i'm gonna have to hit Dave Rice up for a loan. At least until my brother straightens up. He's uh, a hunchback.

I think it was Wynn Stewart that put out the song, ANOTHER DAY ANOTHER DOLLAR. Maybe I just need to go listen to Merle Travis's song SIXTEEN TONS.