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I have to speak out. Forget music. Forget that we don't have a political thread anymore. People are hurting. Even Government employees.

We are now seeing "Hope And Change". Is this what you wanted? Who is better off than they were two years ago? Who is doing as well as two years ago?

Who enjoys watching the President and family partying while we sweat at work for low wages or look for work?

I started a thread before the election, asking who would vote for Obama. The positive Obama replies seemed negative to the question (Thought I was being Facetious), but they really thought that he was going to be a miracle.

Keep writing and playing music. I am.

Hey Ben,

I feel compelled to reply even though I am anti, anti, anti political threads here at JPF. I have always respected your opinions on things and this is no exception. But I believe that any president has very little impact on actual "current events". I mean the health care stuff doesn't kick into until 2014!

But what a president does in the short term is set the mood, expectations and general vision for where the country is going. Are the problems too big for Obama and the current congress? -- sure does seem like it.

I don't have any answers at the moment, but I refuse to give up hope. In any case, if this thread devolves into any kind of political bashing, I'll do what I can to get it deleted.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin. Go ahead and tell the teacher on me. Grow up.

Hi Bro Ben!

I think between a Rising Unemployment Rate, Falling Stock Market, AND Major Oil Spill..folks aren't expecting MUCH Improvement on the Horizon. The Press's been leaking factoids on How Much BETTER-Compensated GOVERNMENT Employees ARE..compared to the PRIVATE Sector...and last week leaked the fact we have 100 MORE Generals in the Military (600 currently) than we did back when 9-11 occurred while we have (I think they said) 100K LESS Troops in-uniform. (Those Gen's earn $160K a year...vs $50K-Less back in 9-11 Days.) Our National Debt equals our Gross Domestic Production currently.

The "Kicker" for me was the mention "The US now imports about 67% of its Oil"..when I'd thought it was just 20%.

I'm not particularly looking forwards to any more "Change"..unless it's Change for The BETTER..(but that usually requires more LOOT-Available to MAKE that Change.)

I'll give Obama credit for getting us MOSTLY out of the War in Iraq...but it's eating up about a Million-per-Marine annually to staff those forward-firebases in Afghanistan. (so said the Evening News on TV a few weeks ago.) I see all the Victims on Our Side as I walk the halls of the VA Hospital...(The VA, BTW, eats up 20% of the Federal Budget currently...&...you can expect THIS Bill to Rise..as long as we fund Wars Overseas..year after year.)

I THINK I'm a year-away from Retirement...Yet I've seen our Real Estate Values down here in FLA pretty-much HALVED in Value over the last 3 years. We've learned to "Live-On-Less"...I think it's HIGH TIME Our Government learned-The-Same...before we join the Greeks as a Nation-Insolvent..but on a Much Larger-Scale.

All's JMO.
Best Wishes, Good Luck.
Stan

Well,
I posted on the Political Board, it was the Political Board wasn't it?, that if McCain got elected things would stay about the same and if Obama got elected things would get slightly worse.

We, of course are still under the New Deal of Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. Bigger Government and more Public Debt.

I have asked a few times on the boards at CNN mostly, why after all these years of what I, and many others call Socialisim things are no better and maybe much worse. And I believe there will be no fix until we ride this horse to death. I don't wish to preach gloom and doom but the economic situation all over the country is bad. States are mostly in debt, look at California.

Tha only thing I would add is people voted for this so now they are seeing the results.

It is funny. The people wanted to get rid of Bush so they put the Democrats back in charge of the Congress. Aw well. It's fun, isn't it??

It's a mess, that's for sure. I sometimes think it's too big a mess to clean up. Sometimes I think the goverment is like ants -- they sort of mindlessly follow a leader who takes them up down and all around to get somewhere where there's nothing they really want. Run your foot across the trail of aints and they'll go crazy, running in circles not knowing how to get back on course.

I think rigorous honesty would help. America needs a 12 step program.

Ben:

Thanks for bringing this up. I did not vote for the man but I initially wished him success. It appears that the "change" he had in mind for us is redistribution of wealth... and possibly something much more forbidding than we ever imagined.

That being said, the real culprit is our Senate and Congress. I will never forgive them for passing an unread bill of immense proportions under the guise of healthcare. If I were King... Traitors would hang!

I don't know much about the politics of America but in England the recession has not yet kicked in but I can see in the next couple of years lots of unrest to come.

Previous recessions have only affected the poor so no-one cared; this recessions is going to hit the middle income people and where-as the poor are stoical about the way there are treated and have always been treated badly, the middle class think they deserve better. They are just about to swell the ranks of the poor so that we will have only two classes of people in the UK, the rich and the poor ...

Hi Richard:

Thanks for weighing in from across the pond. Sorry to hear that you guys may be headed for recession. We have not yet recovered from ours and there is a significant possibility that we may slide back into the morass if intellegent action is not taken by the current administration... now hell-bent on spending our coffers dry... then taxing us into infinity to cover their ignorant a*&%#@'s. (Thank you Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi!)

We (the United States) have been headed in the direction of a two class society for quite some time. Nothing wrong with being rich, especially if it was earned and not stolen... but the disparity between groups will be in the range of 5% rich and 95% poor if we don't find a better way to finance our gluttony other than the stinkin' income tax. I worry about my children and grand-children's future. The American Dream is quickly becoming the American Nightmare.

I hear Spain is doing better now. We spent a few million there recently and it really helped their tourism industry.

And now that Obama honored Bush's Iraq withdrawal timetable we might save a few bucks there as well.

Bill,

The local economy is improving here. We had the triple play with Comcast (HDTV, phones and internet) for like $100 a month. Our one year contract expired -- and it jumped to $200. My wife called up and got a deal at $140. I knew the $100 wouldn't last, but $200 was too high. At $140, I can get 5 more bottle of local virginia wine each month! Just trying to do my part.

Kevin

Good for you Kevin. We all need to do our part,
We are still looking for a place in the country. A farm. But we keep finding these nice places but there is no cable TV/Internet service and our cell phones won't work.
Seems I remember a campaign promise. Something about putting people to work installing Cable TV in every corner of the country.

But of course we are dealing with people who say stuff like this

"It depends what your definition of 'Sex' is?'' - Bill Clinton

"That Obama ... I would like to cut his NUTS off." - Jesse Jackson

"Those rumors are false ... I believe in the sanctity of marriage." - John Edwards

"I invented the Internet." - Al Gore

"The next Person that tells me I'm not religious, I'm going to shove my rosary beads up their ASS." - Joe Biden

"America is ... is no longer, uh, what it ... it, uh, could be, uh, what it was once was ... uh, and I say to myself, 'uh, I don't want that future, uh, uh for my children." - Barack Obama

"I have campaigned in all 57 states." - Barack Obama (Quoted 2008)

"You don't need God anymore, you have us Democrats." - Nancy Pelosi (Quoted 2006)

"Paying taxes is voluntary." - Sen. Harry Reid

"Bill is the greatest husband and father I know. No one is more faithful, true, and honest than he." - Hillary Clinton (Quoted 1998)

And the most recent gem of wisdom from the "Mother Moron":

"We just have to pass the Healthcare Bill to see what's in it." - Nancy Pelosi (Quoted March, 2010)


HOW LUCKY CAN WE BE - TO HAVE SUCH BRILLIANT MINDS IN CHARGE OF OUR ONCE GREAT COUNTRY?


''Life's tough ... it's even tougher if you're stupid.''
- John Wayne

Well, we have a hung parliment out this way, so it looks like no-one can decide which is best. And the Senate ( balance of power )is controlled by the Greens, not such a bad thing, maybe we'll be able to get past our addiction to oil.

The economy seems Ok, after a massive stimulis package, but that's costing us $100 million a day, in interest alone.

No double dip, yet, .... but the economic ground is still a bit shakey.

cheers, niteshift

Pretty great quotes there, Bill. I wrote my 40th 50/90 song today. It's about Sarah Palin, but it's a little cryptic: http://fiftyninety.fawmers.org/songs/4199

Kevin

Nice one Kevin
I was thinking about writing one with 100% quotes from our fearless leaders.

When 9/11 happened, and the subsequent reaction from our country, which was "We're all in this together, let's go kick some ass!" and Republicans and Democrats stood side by side singing "America the Beautiful"...I thought, "We're screwed from here on out." A fast food mentality of instant gratification that has engulfed our society, made it IMPOSSIBLE for George W. to succeed as a president, no matter WHAT he did. Any action he took was too dramatic for some and not enough or fast enough for others. Americans watched fellow human beings jump to their deaths on National television, and wanted justice NOW! President Bush said, "This is a war like no other. It may take 100 years to win it." We were IN...then we got impatient.

President Obama walked into this mess, and had no hope. It doesn't matter what he does either. We are infiltrated, we are forever changed as a country, by being too kind and letting too many insurgents in, slipping under our radar. It isn't any president's fault...it's time to take matters into our own hands, and get back to being a country of ordinary people who are armed. That's what made us independent of England, and that's what will make us indenpendent of insurgents who only want to infiltrate us and destroy us from within.

Those days and the stones to make it happen are long gone. WE are being invaded on our southern border and we do NOTHING. We are allowing Muslim extremist's to build an army on our soil and we do NOTHING.
By the time we do act it will be too late.

I was reminded yesterday picking up my SIL at the airport how many billions of dollars that Al-Qaida and company have caused us to spend just on airport security, not to mention the additional time and misery it takes to fly anywhere. A small band of moron terrorists have changed our world. And then we criticize the French when they take tiny steps against them.

Nice quote collection! Our store a couple of years ago sold presidential lighters with a pull out strip of stupid quotes.H. Clinton and Al Gore were also included. Needless to say they sold like crazy!

A hung parliament?...if only it was true....hanging is too good for most politicians.....and of course the political and religious extremists who cause the misery we all have to suffer.

I feel I have inadvertently wandered into a Tea Party forum. {quietly slips out the back door whispering God Bless Corporate America}

Ain't this fun? Freedom of Speech. I'm all for it. It looks like there will be another Tea Party come November. I think one of my ancestors had the same problem. Look up the Long Parliament for the story. Look under the Five Members. And enjoy!

Tea Party forum?

Naaa. Just a few folks that actually believe our Constitution means something and we are a sovereign nation who has a right to a secure border. And believe in limited federal government.

I need to find some stupid republican quotes to go along with those Democrat quotes. Because they are all pretty much the same.

I agree it is a shame a few extremists have created quite a problem. But "few" is a relative term.
There are about 1.5 billion Muslims. It is estimated 0.5% believe Americans should be eradicated from the planet and are active in the effort to make that a reality.
7.5 million... yep that's a few.
Some reports are 7,000,000 Muslims in the United States.
0.5%
35,000 on American soil? yep... that's a few
And one might be living next door to you.
Isn't this fun.

So nice of you to Bless Corporate America. Since I was one. Of course our wonderful Gummint put me out of business but that's another story.
Six people lost their Jobs. Including one legal Mexican immigrant.

Term Limits PLEASE!!!

Term Limits: 4 for House, 1 6 year for Senate: 1 term for president, they spend the first half of term one paying off campaign promises to their funders (re: real bosses) and the second half running for re-election making all new promises... then the first half of term two paying off those promises to their funder (re: real bosses). They use the second half of their second term " building their legacies" which simply means getting all the pay offs the next criminal enterprise that wants power.

Line Item Veto: So current president is 100% held responsible for everything in every bill and can't even claim they were forced to spend a dime again.

Balanced budged amendment with a 10% slush fund for natural disasters: If budget goes over, no paycheck that year for congress or heads of any departments over budget: only exceptions military and health/natural disaster emergencies. If war or emergency breaks out, all welfare plans except for the 100% disabled are maintained only if all parties between 18-75 are working for the war or emergency cause.

Wars fought on US Soil with non american citizens would be covered without limits and made up for in the next budget. All other wars would have to come out of yearly budget.

Government jobs would not offer pensions. All active military would after 15 years of service. Disabled soldiers would receive Average Government job salary for life and could keep 100% of any additional money they earned tax free.

Flat TAXES: Every year we'd have 1 flat tax with 1% in case we votes as a nation to go to war or have a natural disaster. When the money is going, too bad. Also, any senator or representative or other government management figure could be recalled by vote every year by simple majority. Better learn how to keep that moderate 3% in the middle pretty happy. If no disasters occur on a rolling 10 year cycle, it is refunded to the people on a new Federal Holiday (on refund years) where all work is cancelled for the day and we walk around our neighborhoods and meet our damn neighbors.

All wars declared by 65% of US Senate and House with mandatory draft including all l8-45 year old US Senate and House able bodied children who had no already served voluntarily. Time served would be number of military active plus draftees divided by number needed per year and all would serve mandatory allocated time. The general public would also work a percentage of time needed for manufacture and non military action support. (I bet we'd have a few less wars on the books).

Only those who volunteered their share of time required would earn a vote. You would no be permitted to buy your time out.

I fit no political that exists today. None would agree to the above. I am also a solcial liberal.. if you you do doesn't harm or impede the general local public (as determined by whatever laws STATES decide to pass) go for it. If you cause harm by accident due to your choices, better be aware of the laws of the given state.

I would be up for most ofthe above, but it was just off the top of my head. And I AM on a bit of medication these days.

Brian

Hip Hip Hooray... Brian for President! If you can get our collection of crooks in congress to vote those ideas into law, we might have a chance of getting our country "out of the ditch."

On a side note... I hope you are fully recovered and once again operating at "full speed" Brian. Thanks for all you do for us.

Nicely-Put, Bro Brian!

I'd definitely agree on Re-Instituting The Draft. The more Rich Kids ya plop into-uniform, the less-likely we GET into long, dumb wars.

JMO, of course. Also think we-uns should enact BIG Penalties for any Corp that ships American Jobs Overseas. (Real HARD to HAVE a Middle Class WITHOUT some Middle-Class-PAYING Jobs left here to fill.)

Best Wishes,
Stan

Sorry for the rant at the start of this thread. I had a bad day (equipment breaking, clients can't pay, etc.) and was fuming. On top of that, I get home and watch the news about more layoffs. I had to vent. Today wasn't much better. More people either don't pay on time or can't pay. I can't afford to repair or replace bad equipment, which means that I can't do the best job that I can.

Glad the thread turned out civil. Apologies to Kevin for the snide remark at the top.

I saw this in the thread and just had to comment....

"Tea Party forum?

Naaa. Just a few folks that actually believe our Constitution means something..."

In my experience it's more like "Just a few folks who beleive The Constitution means what we think it means, not what's actually in it." The Tea Party folks I've talked to have ideas for changing this country that would not only destroy our infrastructure and leave many impoverished and homeless, but also trample on the Constitution and the rights currently afforded to all our citizens.

There also seems to be a large anti-Muslim sentiment, not only in that party, but in some of the comments in this thread. I feel compelled to remind that Muslims are people too. The Constitution isn't a religious document, and Muslims are equal citizens under the law. If we want to go back to a "founding fathers" argument...they as puritans were fleeing religious persecution in Anglican England and one of the provisions of their new government was that it was to be separate from religion, allowing anyone to practice however they wanted without fear of persecution. Surely the Tea Party, being constitutional purists, would want to honor that, right?

I think that if we really want to clean up the dirty politics game that is preventing progress and the positive change that everyone is hoping for, we need to try and get the Supreme Court to reverse its decision about unlimited corporate election funding. In fact I think that we need to eliminate all funding from corporations and lobby groups. Don't give politicians the ability to recieve incentives, sell their votes, or be swayed from their duty by private interests. In this way government can afford to spend less by focusing their efforts, tax less, and get more done with the money they do have. I think we should place a hefty tax on companies that want to take jobs overseas and away from Americans, to hopefully create sufficient incentive for jobs to come back here.

That's my two cents.

Anyways...I always love a good discussion. Even though this isn't usually the forum for it, it's enjoyable to read everyone's opinions all the same.

Hi Cheezo01:

Welcome to JPF and this thread Ben started. It's always good to hear what others think or believe. To my knowledge, although I am a conservative, I have never met a Tea Party follower, organizer or member. I know they exist and I applaud their right to believe in what they want. Who knows, I might be a candidate if our two major parties can't get their acts together.

I noticed something you stated and would like to clarify who actually began the colonization of what eventually became the United States. Raliegh's colony on the coast of what is now North Carolina was first... but appears to have been assimilated into the native population and vanished. Jamestown Virginia was next... and thrived. Virginia was the first organized governing body of this country and were thus, "The Founding Fathers." Although we owe a great deal to the Puritans who arrived much later, this is a popular but mistaken common historical belief.

I sure like alot of your ideas about reduced taxation and incentives for corporations to create jobs here in the U.S.

Although there is a modicum of mistrust of Muslims in this Country founded from an original Christian collection of Colonies, I welcome their presence provided it is peaceful and reciprocal towards the views of other religions or people without religious inclination. The mistrust stems from long before the events of 9/11 but that act of cowardice certainly did not help their cause. Watching Muslim countries in the middle east on CNN as they celebrated the fall of the towers did not create warm, fuzzy feelings here.

I would invite folks to review the history of India and Pakistan just to point out that Radical and even some Moderate Muslims do not vent their hatred only toward Christian nations. This is an ever shrinking world and we all need to learn to live in harmony.

I offer my points in the spirit of healthy discussion and in no way intend to appear negative or disrespectful.

I am sick of all this right wing propoganda and haterd stirring. I know a lot of Muslims and most if not all are moderate, honest, hard working folks who follow the true teachings of the Koran which itself upholds the law and the morals most of us hold so dear.
I also know of some right wing extremists and religious Christian fanatics who's racist views and actions go against all the teachings of the Bible and make the Muslim extremist look tame in comparison.
People in glass houses should not throw stones.
I wonder what figure we would get if KKK members and sympathisers could expressed as a percentage of the American population.

Aw, Well,
The Pilgrims came to the New World to get away from Big Government not Re-Invent it. However that is what is happening more and more.

The U.S. Constitution Gurantees you the right to Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness. It does not gurantee you will find it. And, it does not give your neighbor the obligation to pay your way.

It does not give you the right to afforable housing or health care. You do have an Education System that can prepare you for Society and all the fruits you can acheive. All those things put into law, by "Dirty" Politicians are supposedly for your benifit.

The Tea Party people just want to get back to what the Constution allows, rather than the nearly complete Corruption of it, asked for by the people, no less.

For who the real "Enemy" is, Google Pogo, who said "We Have Found the Enemy, and..."

I feel kind of sheepish reminding people it was pyramid loan schemes by Wall Street bankers and financiers that almost destroyed the financial system and led directly to the economic problems we're now in. Only intervention by the (ahem) government saved the financial system from a complete meltdown. And it's only because of "big government" programs such as Medicare, Social Security and Unemployment Compensation that we've so far avoided the worst effects of the Great Depression.

So go ahead and do your patriotic duty and hate the government all you want. But at least try to get the facts straight about who caused the mess we're in.

Hi Big Jim:

Hope your tour is going well. I was surprised to see you are of the opinion that the KKK is a significant factor here in the United States. Where, pray tell did you come up with that notion? I haven't worn my robe in years... LOL! Seriously, I have never seen a robed (or unrobed... thank goodness) Klansman since the 80's near Nashville. They were boo'd off the streets by the local citizens.

As to Muslims... may Allah provide them with the wisdom of peace and recognition that others are free to worship (or not) whichever diety they believe will better their lives. I hope you did not take my previous post to be a rant against them. In the past you have professed athiesm... and that is your right. I respect you just the same... as long as you don't expect me to follow in your footsteps. I promise not to attempt to convert you to Methodism... unless you ask me to do so... LOL!

Be well and happy, my brother.

Hi Dan:

Don't feel sheepish about being disgusted with pyramid schemes. I also detest the way congress has allowed the big credit card companies to rip and tear, rape and plunder the ordinary citizen with ever changing rules, higher interest rates (to the point of extortion) and shortened payment cycles. We need to get back to a maximum of 10% APR on any loan or credit arrangement. Credit will eventually collapse our system if not brought under control.

I was a child of the great depression. It was tough but I never went hungry. We did not have social security and yet we survived.
Today, our congress has frozen cost of living increases to Social Security Recipients (like me) and have increased our medicare payment significantly... thus we are now heading into the red side of the ledger. At the same time, both the House and Senate have voted themselves pay raises these last two troubling years. They have fantastic retirement and medical care... all at our expense.

I believe it is the very big government programs that cause a significant portion of our problems. They certainly cause employers to resist hiring new people. When government involves itself in the economy by "printing more money" you and I eventually end up paying for it one way or another. The massive fraud in most of these programs is significant.

Finally, your last sentence hurled an accusation without naming the "guilty party." Do I perceive the name "George Bush" or is that my imagination. Remember, he had a mixed bag with congress and was virtually, a lame duck during his last term. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac probably caused most of the last downturn and meltdown... and yet congress allows these charlatans to continue to dine at the trough of the government coffers. I contend that it is criminal to loan money to a person with zero chance of repayment. It is a case of poisoning the well... for the rest of us.

I'll be happy to listen to your ideas on how to get us out of this mess. I don't think we've seen the worst of it... and we think the music biz is tough... LOL!

Regards and respect,

Dave

Hi Cheezo01
First off I don't know a single person who "Belongs" to the Tea Party. I don't belong to the Tea Party. I am a Conservative and an independent.

It seems to me even our Supreme Court has a little trouble figuring out what our Constitution has to say.
Since you have chosen to call me out personally would you enlighten us on what you think our Constitution says about the powers of our Government.
I think I have a pretty good grasp of it since I have read the Bill Of Rights pretty carefully and am familiar with Article 1 section 8 of the Constitution.
Is there something I missed?
I'd like to know what these ideas of destroying our infrastructure are. I certainly don't agree with that.
Or Trampling on the "rights" of our citizens. What "rights" would those be?
As far as leaving the impoverished homeless goes I would certainly not agree with that. I do however believe people should work for what they get. If you want the Government to provide for you, you should not be sitting in free government housing eating free government food unless you are doing something to earn it.
Perhaps putting those people to work maintaining our infrastructure?
Also


I am not sure where this idea came from. If you are speaking of the "Founding Fathers" who wrote the Constitution and declaration of independence they were not Puritans. They were Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Quakers, Unitarians, and A few other religions I can't think of.

Boy, I'm really glad we got rid of the political forum! {LOL}

Me too

You missed my point entirely.....I was saying that we should not brand ALL Muslims terrorists just because a TINY few have extremist views.....and not ALL Americans are extreme right wing racists just because a TINY few belong to the KKK.
Not all politicians are cheats and liars.....one or two can be fairly honest on an occasion.
Yes I am an Atheist......thank God.

PS I have this stinking cold/flu thing it has lasted over two weeks....It prevented me from flying so I had to postpone my trip to Spain....but will hopefully be going in a day or two when I get better.

Hey Big Jim:

Sorry about the cold/flu preventing the trip to Spain. That has to be a real downer. Your point regarding non-extremist Muslims and the comparision to Right Wingers was admittedly missed by me. Thanks for your clarification.

When time permits, I hope you'll let us know how things go in Espana. I'm hoping it exceeds your aspirations.

Regards, Dave

I honestly think that the USA, as we know it, is history. It's over. If so, that's pretty sad and sobering, isn't it.

It's mostly about jobs. "They" have been exporting our jobs overseas for a long time now and in the past, say, 20 years, it has accelerated. I don't think any politician would have the courage to reverse this. And who knows, all of this just might be planned anyway.

I recently read an extensive article about global economic growth trends for the next 30 years. Talk about eye-opening! Assuming it was true, the USA will continue its fall. China will become 1, India 2 and Brazil and another country were in the mix; I can't recall the fourth one.

Couple the export of jobs to a gimme, gimme, gimme national mentality, and a political system that is a farce and you have the end of this country as the Big Dog.

I really do think it's over. I wish I could be optimistic about humankind's long-term survival but I really do have my doubts. There is a small percentage of homo sapiens that is prone to violence and evil and couple that to technology, where one kook can inflict harms to thousands of people, and it could lead to our demise.

And if we don't kill everybody off, lack of regard for our environment, globally, and the love of the almighty dollar (money, not the U S Dollar) will do it. I can't see how the planet can withstand the inevitable population growth that will occur.

On the other hand, I am moving towards trying my best not to worry about any of this and just trying to live out the rest of my life with as much happiness as I can absorb, along with spreading as much as I can spread. Seems like a good idea. Maybe I will refuse to write anything other than John Denver-ish upbeat stuff.

I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden...
comes to mind.
Our Founding Fathers didn't either. They were trying to set up a system where you could have one if you worked hard for it and no one could take it away.
But you could give it away if you were not careful. And I fear that is what has happened.

Duke
I have to admit I mostly agree with you. History is repeating itself..again...
Our nation is going through another step in the natural evolution of a country. Agricultural, Industrial, Informational, service. We are entering the service stage.
That's where we don't make anything. All we do is service what someone else makes and sells to us.
Unfortunately the service folks are usually paid less than the makers and are ruled by the makers.
Where we are heading is unsustainable.
So yes, the Countries that are taking over manufacturing will rule. Manufacturing leads to innovation and new ideas and products.
They will eventually own the USA. We are almost there now and the bailouts helped it along.

That's why I am still looking to buy a farm. Not for me so much, I am a little past my prime, but my grandkids will need a place to go.

What's happening to us is not the fault of the Democrats or Republicans. It's our parent's fault.

Why? For committing the unpardonable sin of working hard and sacrificing so that they could give their children a good life. And they did.

And it's doing us in....

We're becoming a nation of couch potatoes who only want to eat, drink and be entertained. It's human nature, I guess - when you're fat and wealthy (I'm speaking relatively here) and don't have to scrap for a living, you lose the edge. The same thing will eventually happen to all those "up and coming" countries - once they become prosperous it's all downhill. And then some other country will come along.

Immigrating to this country has always drawn those who are willing to work hard, take risks, and seize opportunities. It doesn't help matters that, just when we need those kind of people the most, we seem to be trying to stop them.

I'm being a little tongue and cheek. In my work, I still see just enough young folks with the fire in their eyes to give me some confidence in our future. And we still seem to have enough brave young folks willing to put their lives on the line for their country. I don't think we will have truly "jumped the shark" until we start exporting our best, bravest and brightest to other countries.

Still, it's hard not to believe that our best days are behind us. Then again, "best days" for me are when you are scrapping for something - not when you attain it.

Be careful what you wish for - you might just get it!

Scott

Hey Scott,

Couldn't agree more. Same thing over this way, being a country of immigrants.

We've now become fat and lazy, expecting everything, ( and especially our kids ) consumng more than we actually need, and the third world is emulating a gadjet culture, to their own peril.

I used to think I was who I was, by the car I drove, and the house that I lived in. I changed all that ( am trying to change all that ) and ingrain into my children, that it really is all about the simple things in life, and the relationships that are formed, and the journey along the way.

I can say that as a ( relative ) Chardonay Socialist, but I was dead sh*t poor once, I hope not to be again, but I know what I need, and I know what I don't. Three televison sets cones to mind......

cheers, niteshift

Scott, I agree with most of what you say in this post BUT I've seen four generations of welfare folks now and you can't say it was their parents "committing the the unpardonable sin of working hard and sacrificing so that they could give their children a good life. And they did." That's the problem (or part of it).

Hey Nite:

I hear you. I certainly wouldn't want to relive my poor days at my current age. But it just didn't seem bad back then. I reckon cause I knew it wouldn't last forever


Hey Sausage:

Can't argue with you on that. My entire argument can be shot down because there is so much diversity in this country that any blanket statements such as mine are probably silly at some level. I think my impression is correct for some segment of the population - certainly not all though.....


Scott

The big thing politicians did to cause the current economic mess was repeal post-Depression laws keeping banks from investing in things like hedge funds and "mortgage backed investment instruments." That was in the Clinton administration, although some senators from both parties pushed it through.

That's one reason so many banks were poised to go glands up. They invested in these high-risk areas that depended on the price of housing going up and up. That's the bubble, and eventually it burst.
Fannie and Freddie were part of it -- Congress allowed them to accept variable rate subprime loans as part of their mandate to offer loans to low income folks. But people who couldn't afford mortgages got them all over the place to keep that bubble floating. Regulators weren't regulating, companies like Moody's and Standard and Poor were giving AAA ratings to investment instruments the like of which they had never seen before -- no one was doing their job.

If there had been no bailouts of banks, AIG, the car companies, etc., we would have been in a Depression that makes this look like happy days are here again. The stimulus wasted way too much money on stuff that didn't create jobs and wasn't nearly big enough to do what it was intended to do anyway.

The Constitution does allow people life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But that's a philosophy, not a policy. In the original Constitution, white male property owners could vote, for example. That's a policy. Then people used the political process in the Constitution to amend that policy.

People who want to reverse some of the policy changes the Constitution has seen are just exercising their rights to do so. But that doesn't mean people who disagree with them are unpatriotic or something.

How do you keep corporations from exporting jobs without big government being involved?

Scott, may I elaborate on your comment? My father was born in 1923, the last of seven kids. At age six, his family experienced the beginning of the Great Depression. My grandfather was an insurance salesman. His company went belly up. He scraped whatever employment he could to feed his family, and often times went without eating, because he refused to eat until everyone else was fed. This INCLUDED begging hobos that showed up at his door!!!

When WW2 happened, my father and his brothers eagerly enlisted. They believed in their country and felt compelled to serve it, even though in their childhoods they experienced hunger, cold winter nights, inadequate schooling conditions (they all went on to college and paid for it themselves), never any spare change...they were GAME ON to fight for their country! My father was a tailgunner in a B-25 bomber. He got shot down in his first flight over Germany. There were 11 men on the plane. 6 died...5 escaped, barely, only to be captured once on ground by the Germans and held in a concentration camp until the Russians invaded and then they were marched throughout Eurpope until liberation day, July 19th, 1945. My father experienced things he WILL NOT talk about, and I respect that, but he also tells of the HELL of the march, and he still doesn't regret serving his country.

THAT'S what we're missing in today's society. My father, who was 40 when I was born (my mother is 13 years younger) decided that my life should be kinder and easier. So what did I do for my kids? Made THEIRS kinder and easier! They wouldn't know how to grow a crop (unless it was POT) or fight their way out of a paper bag!!! My 18-year-old is still asking me to fix her dinner plate! WTF???

The Golden Generation is long gone, and in its place, a bunch of uneducated, belligerent, self-absorbed, delusional, helpless kids that have NO CLUE how to be good people, good, giving citizens, or how to survive. THESE are our leaders of tomorrow!!!

Awesome post Polly

Your dad is one helluva man.

Our histories parallel a little bit. My dad was born in 1919 and served in WWII - though in the Pacific. He was 40 when I was born.

I remember being about 10 and seeing him watching a news story about Vietnam on TV. He shut it off and said, "I hope this thing has ended before you reach the draft age". LOL - from the same guy who went off to fight in an earlier war.

Yes, parents try to shield their children from things they know (from their own experience) to be bad. Not sure this is the best strategy but I do know this - If I had kids I would do the exact same thing!

Thanks for posting that - it illustrates what I was trying to say better than I could

Scott