JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Poll: Taylor Swift

Casanova looks and her face makes herself a star.

Hi Mike! I'm late for this ummm, party, but I got a few comments.

First of all, I have gone through all the pages here on this thread, and unless I missed it, didn't find one female who responded.. which is interesting in itself, to say the least. HA!! Here is a quote from someone on here...
Sometimes we forget that the entertainment industry is about entertainment not art. People want someone to help them feel the way they want to feel. Taylor does that for a lot of young teenage girls.

So.. since all this TS stuff, I have to admit it just blows my mind that grown men, and a lot of, as you guys have put it here, "old geezers," like TS's songs. I mean it REALLY blows my mind. Sure, I can tolerate some of her stuff, but what, may I ask, makes an older man, heck let's even go with as young as a 30-YO man... what makes a man like this stuff?? I'm just curious as all-get-out.. EXPLAIN someone, please.

Also, MAB you said that the industry puts the same promo money and marketing behind all new acts.. did I get that correct? Or close? ... and then you went on to say that they "fail" every day... you mentioned Jessica Simpson... sure, they did a "country" (cough) album on her... but... I just don't see every single artist that comes out being promoted and in our faces the way they have done TS.. and yes, others along the way.. I'm just saying that I don't see this with every single one.

TS surely has promoted discussions about the business. I have my own opinions about this artist. Do I think she is talented? Yes. But sorry, not to the extent that they have made her into what she is. I know 10 others here where I live around her age that could do the same thing.. perhaps.. if in the right spot at the right time.

Again, I don't disagree with your tastes...I disagree with your entire premise--it's not "better" that sells, it's what people like that sells.


Agree, Mark, on the "better" vs. the "like." However, I do not agree with you about kids not being easy targets into "following the leader." Look at how they helped elect the President we have now. "Look at him.. he's hip, he's cool.... Listen to this.. they are cool, they are hip." That's what I think.

I will stand by her and her music. Justice and I were listening to some of her songs yesterday and I do like them. There are about six of them that I consider models of songwriting.

Tom

The comments on the younger generation and their musical preferences remind me of the sixties. Exact same thing that the old folks were saying about the kids back then. Remember the comments by the old people regarding the Beatles? Exact same comments.

Tom

I just think it's nice that all of the young girls have a better model to follow than Lady Gaga and all that ilk...

its obviously not to do with her singing. or her songwriting. i heard her say that she writes her songs in half an hour...come on..thats not real writing and you can hear it. but she certainly has star power.

Absolute Star Quality...obvious answer since she's a star! I love Ms Swift, I think she's a talented girl. And I look forward to watching her career and hearing what she writes as she grows up a little. I mean Hell, she's got me hooked on great songs about teen love and Princesses...I can only imagine and look forward to what she writes as an adult!

Chad

focused direction from a very early age, star quality looks, and the insight to gain the business smarts early on will only help her staying power...in my opinion she's a better writer than she is a singer...but with melodyne her records have zero flaws and i think there's a huge fan base that just truly relates well to what she has to say...even if some of it is fairy tales...obviously lotsa folks like fairy tales

Geez,

I thought we had extenguished this topic. Okay, we'll try it one more time. In response to a few of the newer comments:

First of all Qubam.

For every act you see out there, there are between 15-30 of the same act in some form of development. Out of those about 5 will get the huge budget that the mainstream acts do. Around $2.5 million dollars.

In this day and age, that money is most often spent on people with the biggest possible existing fan base. Reality shows like American Idol being the biggest propellant, those artists, Carrie Underwood will be first for that money. Jessica Simpson being an actress would be another one. Then there are people who you never hear of.

Those have the same budgets, the same marketing. The "In your face approach." they might not be in your market in Ga. because they are kicking off their marketing in LA or New York. They are on billboards, they are on the radio, video channels, etc. Why don't you hear of them?

Because they don't catch on with the public.
How many movies are released with major actors, directors and budgets that are direct to DVD?

What this means is that there are limits to what the public buys and the alleged "manipulation."

Many people who are far outside the marketing of artists (songwriters) rarely understand this. They see or hear something that doessn't fit their taste patterns, and deem it unworthy for their standards, and talk negatively about it. That is fine. Everyone has their own taste, and it is pretty inconsequencial what songwriters think of it since they don't generally buy music. They make their own.

But you can't manipulate audiences to buy CD's over and over, go to concerts and win awards. Every one tries. They really do. there are billions of dollars spent on product that go now where. The public has to create a groundswell. That is what they have done on Taylor Swift.

Taylor hit a nerve with women 16-45 years old, which is 70% of the music purchasing public. She writes songs about situations that happen to women at that age and does it in a way that is interesting and different.

In Nashville we have a saying: "say the same thing in a way we haven't heard a million times before." We are all writing about the same situations and emotions. One song, "Our Song" that was an early big hit for Taylor does this. It utilizes the "sounds of life" going on around her, a door slamming, "talking low on the phone so your mother won't know" into "Our Song." That is interesting songwriting. Very few writers that I know would have done that. She did.

So she connected with her material with the intended audience, girls like her, who are the biggest monetary "voting block."
Once something gets successful, they pour marketing money into it. That is why you have seen her everywhere. It feeds on itself like a forest fire.

But you can't manipulate that record after record and she has three that have all sold millions in a free downloading age. You can't manipulate that. You can't force people to buy products. You can make it look as attractive as you can, but can't force people to buy anything.
The awards follow because she has earned the respect of her peers through sales.
She also has succcessfully managed the internet, Twitter, My Space, Face Book.

That is why she is where she is, like it or not. But I have said before, it really doesn't matter what any of us think. The public likes her and supports her.

Janyoung, Writing songs in 30 minutes.
Actually this is very common on hit songs. When you are a professional writer you can bring talents to bear very quickly. There are hundreds of songs throughout history that were written very quickly. The Christmas Song, Mel Torme wrote that in about 20 minutes. "Chesnuts Roasting on an open fire." and he wrote it in July in Palm Springs Ca. So it wasn't that he was "inspired by sitting around the fire with the tree in the background."

One of my favorite stories was on "Yesterday." The most recorded song on time was written by Paul Mcartney in about 20 minutes. He had the melody for about three years thinking it was from something else he had heard. He used a working title "Scrambled eggs" and kind of kept it on the back burner. When he finally figured out it wasn't from another song, he wrote the nine most recorded lines in history in about 25 minutes.

In Nashville we write every day. Yesterday I wrote my 1803'd song in 6 years. It took about an hour. Is it a "hit"? Have no idea. I don't determine hits. The public does. We just write them up and put them out there. But it does happen. And some songs take years.
But you will hear story after story from hit writers about the songs they wrote in 20 minutes, thought it was a "throwaway song" until someone else heard it and it ended up getting cut and exploding.

Songwriters at the top of their game can be compared to great actors. When the camera is turned on, they inhabit that role. They might not be a murderer or thief but they understand the mentality. They might not be breaking up with their significant other but they have probably been through that before. They might not be a Father or Mother but are close to people who are. they can bring those emotions and visuals together and make magic. Usually there is some personal connection to the song so they bring those up just like a great actor in a part. So you can get some amazing songs that sound like they lived every second of it, when they actually never did.

Writing comes from a lot of places, some go fast, some go slow. But don't discount someone who says "I wrote it in 30 minutes" They probably did. It is about talent, experience and luck.

So love or hate Taylor it doesn't matter. She is what she is.

My comments and advice is to emulate the good things, ignore what you don't like and quit talking people down if they don't play up to your standards. That doesn't get one song written, one writers appointment made, one pitch done on a song.
And that is what writers should be focused on.

MAB

It is fascinating how one artist can rise out of the pack, as Marc discusses above. The most recent example is Justin Biebe.r (who you ask?) A fifteen year old blond boy with a beatle style haircut from Canada (who moved to Altanta). He is presently out-staring and outselling every other tween/teen singer. He rose to success largely based on his Youtube videos. Came out of nowhere and in a few months was on top, displacing Miley and everyone else.

Why? who knows. He just hit a chord in tween/teen girls. The other 5,000 boy singers who are trying the same thing .... well they are still there trying.

His second cd was released today. (The first cd came out three months ago).

Tom

I agree with Marc. Also if you take 10 people and give them all the exact same amount of money, exposure media time etc... Somebody is STILL going to HAVE to out sell somebody else.

The big key & point is the CHANCE to even have that happen.

And usually that chance comes with at least one or any combo of the following.

Drive
Focus
Talent (of some kind, especially of appeal)
Work
Patience
Commitment
CONNECTIONS
Networking
Money & support
Attitude
Perceived (how others see you)

The problem in these discussions is as often the case is one person thinks everything on radio & TV is bad and the other thinks well if it is and it sells it MUST be good.
How whacky can we be? lol
I always lived in the middle. Also how can I be a pro anything
if I do not think straight with an open mind.
Am I a fan or a pro? Both? yes but what's more important on a daily basis?

Do you think because I have the slightest ability to sit down and make some pretty cool somewhat sophisticated music/playing with NO lyrics even and work with people who are smoking good,
that I stick my nose out at popular music or other kinds of music? Nope! Luckily for me I work with & LOVE both. Not all but some as certain current music I can not just "feel" And I write & make simple current catchy songs as well. I ALWAYS surprise the others I work with when showing them the other styles.

EVERYTHING in life is basically about perspective!!


You can LOVE football & hate figure skating, but spend a a full day or a week with those who do figure skate professionally and love figure skating. You may not LOVE it still but you may have a whole new perspective on it and perhaps some respect for it after wards.
Young girls love Taylor Swift and I can totally see why, so do some boys and again I can see why. So do some older woman, well that is also because they don't have a Streisand around anymore
either. Really the Celines's and that whole approach style is kinda absent on THEE chart today.

I'm lucky, as tonight an amazing musician is coming over to play on an instrumental I wrote and it's gonna be smoking, but better yet FUN & positive, educational and it will mean something.
Then Sunday OUR own little Taylor, Kacey will be over to bring us smack dead into one aspect of totally current pop chart music.
It will be fun, positive, educational and it will mean something.

Watch a kid come up with 3 catchy melodies over the same three chords before you can even come up with ONE!

I just wish I was healthy enough to enjoy it to the fullest. The fact that I can still even be involved is surprising enough to me. Makes me glad I'm a bit of a producer as well

Don't or try not to pin yourself into ANY corner, if somethings not your bag don't dwell & focus on it so much move on. Yes there is lots of very lousy music on the radio. Lousy by the standards of what has come before it, that is a fact, but ask yourself WHAT does it have to do with YOU?

Peace
Mike

MAB,
you put it very well
enjoyed it

ande

Here's a video Swift put together to lt Fans know about her ACM noms
http://www.hififusion.com/video/taylorswift/acm2010/3/

I don't remember 'cause I'm too young. But I do remember when I first started hearing hip hop/rap that I couldn't understand the words and kids could.

I saw a Tom Shapiro NSAI guest speaker workshop tonight and he said Keith Urban's "You Look In My Shirt" was recorded by Keith years before it became a single. Evidently, Keith would do it in the live shows and it was real popular and he finally decided to record it a second time.

Travis had to release "On The Other Hand" twice before it became a smash.

Even the Beatles had to be unleashed upon American radio a second time because the first time didn't take. You can look it up.

I thought those kind of went along with what Marc said.

I just looked at her website. She's got a bunch of sold out concerts on tap. On the bills for Bayou Country Music Fest for Baton Rouge she appears to be the headliner over Keith Urban on night one of the two day festival.

Go Taylor!

Garth fed a lot of people in town.
Shania did too.
The Chicks fed plenty.
None of them are really feeding anyone anymore.

Gone are the days of Diamond selling records ... for sale signs everywhere... for rent signs just the same.

But Taylor? She's feeding a lot of people in town. My old roomie plays for her. Been all over the world. Made some money. Isn't starving like he was before he got that gig.

Art vs. commerce will always be a battle ... but I've never cared about that argument so long as so many were starving (as in the term 'artist'.)

I pray she keeps feeding a lot of people (that Big Machine from the president of the label to the lady who dumps the garbage at the arena she sold out the night before). And I pray this town isn't in such bad shape that by the time she does stop feeding folks, we have no new artist to turn to that have the ability to feed just as many.

but that' just me. thanks for letting me post.