JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Does "Slurple" rhyme with "Purple"?

After evaluating my 10 bazzillionth song (well, maybe I exaggerate) I've concluded that the biggest trap of them all for the developing songwriter is having the rhyme scheme drive the plot, message, or storyline of the song.

Example:
Someone comes up with an intriguing 1st line:

The raging anger in my soul turned my skys to purple

I can almost see the writer's mind at work...let's see, what rhymes with purple? Hmmmmm.....Ah! i got it! next line:

So I bought a large grape Slurpee that I chose to call a Slurple

WHAT????!!!!

Yes, of course I'm exaggerating...again. But believe it or not I'm not exaggerating very much in how far I see plots drift in songs as a result of writers trying to find rhymes.

I believe that it's better to decide what you want to say FIRST and then try to find a way to get it to rhyme than to find some cool words or phrases that rhyme and then try to make up some kind of a story around it.

It sounds inconceiveable to think that anyone would actually go about writing a song by finding rhymes first and developing a story or mesage around those rhymes, doesn't it? But would you believe me if i told you that in most of the songs sent to me for evaluation, the plots were influenced significantly, if not entirely, by the rhyme scheme rather than by the concept of the song?

Does anyone know the the top secret (not really) Nashville trick that's used to prevent this from happening?

Regards,

Bill Renfrew
www.writethismusic.com

I have found that using a thesaurus is a good thing, it opens up the mind to more than one word that describe basically the same thing, to whatever extent.

The rhymes come after you delve into the literary mechanics, and decide which word you really want to use to tell your story....There's also RhymeZone.....

Well of course slurple rhymes with purple. Now who would use that in a song? Decide rhymes with clyde but who would use that in a song. Well IT may work.

So what is going on in Nashville in your world, Bill? Finding any good songs?

Ray,

my point exactly...

Things are pretty good. I finished the CD on Rick Stavely and he released it a couple weeks ago. I produced it, recorded it, played all the guitars and cowrote a bunch of the songs. I also did all the photography. My wife did all the CD art and graphics. Turning into a ma-pa shop here! Rick also cut 2 of my earier songs on the thing so that was cool. One of the songs, "To Fly Again", that he pre-released, stayed on the Canadian charts for 9 months....unreal. We were very pleased. It was a song that I did rewrite consult on with him.

I'm wrapping up my CD too...almost done! Can't wait.

Regards,

bill
www.writethismusic.com

Could it be...Near Rhymes?



I used to be agin' 'em, but at least they keep us from inventing absurd, unrelated lines for the sole purpose of matching the last word of a well-written line.

All good ideas so far, but not the one I'm thinking of...

Was this a serious song? If so, I would roll my eyes and shake my head when hearing it. Get rid of the base rhyme "purple" for god's sake and find another word! Of course purple would work fine in a novelty song. Roger Miller did fine when he rhymed purple with maple surple.

Cool words are okay, but sometimes you have to sacrifice a cool word to maintain the integrity of the song. I've done it lots of times. That is just a dumb, almost childish rhyme and should be changed.

Be conversational, slurple is not conversational.

HiDee BillBro!

Roger Miller DID rhyme it...with "Maple Syrple"...best I can recall!

Me, I'd try "Hurtle/Turtle/Girdle/Circle/Berserkle"..Whatever Works! There's a Near-Rhyme for Anything.."Jurrasic/Bombastic"..especially if you're penning a Fun One.

Of course, a better writer coulda just penned "My soul's raging anger left me viewin' purple skies" & rhymed the heck outta the Next Line....if it was a Serious Song.

Recently, I DID have to "Influence a Plotline" when I ran out of Rhymes for "Pills"...but Grampa's new "Red Convertible WHEELS" made the Plotline significantly Ever-Better. (&..in a Counrty Way, too...like "cain't" rhymes with "Saint"..heh!)

But..JMO, most times it's just a matter of re-wording a line to get the "easiest" rhymable-word at the Tail.

Good Observation, tho!
Best Wishes/Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

Rhymes of convenience and near rhymes are usually a shortcut taken when people cannot craft good lyrics. It is very simple to turn things round in a line to find a suitable rhyme or drop the offending word altogether. EG. Skies of purple becomes purple skies. You then craft the line to fit the context EG My skies have turned to purple through raging anger in my soul or as an alternative change purple to grey, blue or even red.

I ran across a Gem Watson song where she rhymed "people" with "sheeple." And it did work. Rather well, in fact.

I don't know if you could do that with "purple." I'm not aware of any exact rhymes, and am not sure there are any near-rhymes, either. I'd suggest re-arranging the words so "purple" didn't wind up in a place where s0omething *had* to rhyme with it.

There are ways, of course. When I wrote "Duct Tape," I discovered there was absolutely nothing in the English language that rhymed with "duct tape." (At least, not that I could think of. I refuse to use rhyming dictionaries.) And I did have lines ending in "duct tape." I, like, had to. It's what the song was about.

The solution was a trick i picked up from Avril Lavigne (or whoever writes her material)--*internal* rhymes, lots of them, everywhere except at the end of the lines, where, since there's nothing that rhymes with "duct tape," nothing tries to. It worked out okay.

Lots of luck. I think "slurple" is fine, by the way, as long as you can use it in casual conversation. Can you?

Joe

I'm gonna give someone a Purple Nurple...

Keep sex outa this LOL

The purple, slurple thing was just a wacky example...this wasn't an actual song. I was trying to make a point that if you choose a word at the end of a line that has very few rhymes, the choice of rhyme will almost have to alter the plot.

Tampa Stan is closest. I studied a bunch of lyrics from current hits and I noticed that the rhyme words a the end of lines were often words with millions of rhymes. Gee...what a concept...give myself choices in what I write by not restricting myself by using end line words that are hard to rhyme!

Maybe I'm slow, but this just hit me this year like a ton of bricks...after studying songwriting for over 12 I find that the great writers often end their lines in the "I" sound and the "EEE" sound and other sounds with lots of rhymes...giving themselves so many choices!

If I end a line with 'in my heart' my plot almost HAS to then say something about either coming 'apart' or something happening from the 'start', etc. However, if I say "in this heart of mine" I suddenly have millions of rhymes to choose from. In this way the rhyme scheme doesn't have to drive the story line...the writer has more choices in what the next line will say.

As I said, maybe I was just slow to get this and everybody else has this figured out, but judging from the number of songs I get that are rhyme scheme driven I thought I'd make a note...

regards,

bill
www.writethismusic.com

Remember the Alice Cooper song "School's Out".

We got no class
We got no principle
We got no innocence
We can't even think of a word that rhymes

School's out for the summer

I like the color purple
I feel like I am a king
in Constantinople

bow down before me heathens
before my head explodes
I need some acetaminophen

Kevin

Duck Tape, eh? How about Flood Gate?

Bill, I could probably have made that work (I have an adjustable drawl). But it's done, and I don't worry about it any more.

Joe

This is gettin' t'be fun....How'bout "Suck Grape" BroJoe?

(& then my Dirty Mind allus kicks-in, with F..k Rape...too!)

Yeah, I Should-Be-ashamed...but it IS a "Perfect Rhyme" as-well..like Muck Scrape...& The Real-"Closie": Truck Weight...hmmm?

Back to CurmudgeonLand, Amigos!
Big Guys-Hug,
Stan

Upon Further Reflection, ALL the Above are just "Near." "Sucked Grape" is as Perfect as it Gets, methinks...with "Sucked Nape" perhaps "Too-Spicy" for Big Jimmie (but that's what I wanted to put here first!);-)>

Stan, "truck weight" is real good. I'd have maybe tried to figure out a way to use that. "Suck grape" is hard to sing--and would probably come out sounding like That Other Thing. It's okay. The song was a neat exercise. Figuring out how to write a country music song without having rhymes at the end of any line was very educational.

Joe

"Snuck Late" also Just Blew-In...Bro! Heh!

I Love a Good Challenge...with "ORANGE" Rhyming bein' the Word that Separates The Snakeskinners from the Flip-Flops.

"Sporrons" is the Closest I've come (Pardon perhaps The Spelling..my Spellcheck's never heard of it...but Big Jimmy Knows what it is...it's a Traditional "Scottish Article of Clothing",[The Plural]..right?)

My late great friend Raymond coined a word for that thing that happens when two people walking toward each other keep trying to move around each other in the same direction at the same time, but remain blocked. You know, you both move right, then you both move left...you both apologize to each other, and finally figure it out and pass.

He called it a lurple. Killed two birds with one word.

The raging anger in my soul turned my skies to violet
I cannot focus as my the blood boils thick, revenge is now my pilot

You could use "lavender," too. But then you have to find something to rhyme with "lavender."

My head is starting to hurt...

Joe

Why are there so many colors without rhymes?

And where's all the blue food?

anyone for a game of purple nerfball?

I contend that rhyme exists if you just tell the story. I never write (ever, that I recall) to get to a preconceived hook/title, THE hook.

I contend that you, as the songwriter, are the first listener. YOU should be hooked by the first line of the song, just as you hope others will be.

I ad lib a line and, if it hooks me with the story it implies, not the whole story, but just some interesting story, then I try to write it. I see where it might go. Who is the character singing, and what is his story?

And I swear I think the rhyme is there if you just tell the story. That implies that you 'get' the story. Sometimes you have to let it incubate a while to 'get' the concept, to conceive the characters, the situation.

Rhyme is an element of 'hook factor.' That's why they use it in nursery rhymes, which, by the way, merit study to break the 4-line, rhyme at the end of each pattern. It is easy to remember, and it generally makes sense, advancing the story.

Little Miss Muffett,
Sat on a tuffett,
Eating her curds and whey.
Along came a spider,
Sat down beside her,
And scared Miss Muffett away.

Now, you can rush ahead, rhyming as you go, which makes it seem like you're writing a song. But the rhyme has to make sense in the context of the story, if you get the story. Miss Muffett's little story doesn't have a slurple or extra word or rhyme or line just there to fill the space. It's a coherent tale, with a beginning, a middle and an end.

Some rhymes can be avoided; 'heart' as previously mentioned. If the story demands it, use it. But there are so many 'grab-a-rhyme' lines, 'tore me apart,' 'feelings inside,' 'strive.' I'll give you a dollar if you've used the word 'strive' in a song AND you ever used it in a real conversation in your life.

'Get' the story. Conceive the singer's point of view. Let them tell the story, their story. The rhyme is there if you just tell the story.

Mark,

I'm delighted hear someone else thinks about these things besides me. I figure if I do it, it takes the burden off of everyone else so they can accomplish something fruitful.

As far as the blue food...you haven't met my former step-daughter (we still maintain that relationship by choice since her mother and I divorced many years ago). She likes food coloring! We often had red peas, blue green beans and rust-colored corn. But her best, and it was hit with her friends, was rainbow mashed potatoes. Four drops each of red, blue, green and yellow food coloring dispersed over the top of the mashed potatoes when they were table-ready...then whip the potatoes with a spatula seven or eight times. Yummy! Food coloring has no taste, as you probably know. But it makes for an interesting looking dinner!

"PURPLE"

No rhyming word for “purple”
How dare that this could be
For purple sure gets slighted
Unlike her friends you see
For “blue” can rhyme with anything
The list is almost endless
But when it comes to purple
Poor purple’s almost friendless
And “black” finds nothing difficult
To rhyme itself against
Yet purple seems to stand alone
She’s always on defense
Take”white” and words are many
That rhyme so easily
Still purple’s searching for her oars
While tossed about at sea
And “green” seems very comfortable
To find a rhyming mate
But purple for the longest time
Just cannot find a date
I’ve heard it said that “red” does well
To find that word that matches
Still purple’s like a chicken’s egg
And that egg never hatches
And some may say that it’s too hard
To rhyme a word with “orange”
But may I ever be so bold
Suggesting using foreign
And "yellow" seems to shine so bright
It rhymes with lists quite long
Yet purple sometimes asks herself
Did I do something wrong
The color “brown” sure gets around
And partners up no problem
But purple tires in her search
And usually winds up hobbling
But don’t feel sorry for her
She wears a royal hue
For purple is majestic
Although her rhymes are few!

Restaurants use yellow food coloring for chicken soup, chicken and dumplings etc.

It makes it taste better, I guess.

Bill,

I've told you a hundred quad-zillion times...don't exaggerate!

Bill......and here I thought I was the only one sitting with the songwriter's rhyme book and wondering why the eeeee pages were so thick and others were so thin. Agree with the idea of re-jigging the line to reposition the key word - in your example purple, or substituting (maybe "mauve" in this case).... But even then, you would often have the eee or other common sounding word combination. So how do you get away from that? One of the things I began doing was to write a line where the word does NOT rhyme where the listener might expect it to. Truth is usually it doesn't work all that well, and I need to go back to eee's and yyy's. However sometimes, it works quite nicely, and gives the song a real neat dimension, almost a point of tension imo. That approach seems to work best for uptempo and slow songs, not as well with mid-tempo ones..... but possibly that's only because I am not very good at it yet.

Paul Ryan
www.rayntunes.com

Orange rhymes with door hinge.

So many times I have faced this quandary... And so many times I have re-written the line or lines that I was trying to rhyme with, and so many times the song has turned out better for it.

I have even on occasions switched and re-written whole verses or chorus’s.

I can often spot when a word is used just because it rhymes and YET it adds nothing to the story line.
And I have seen others make so many reasons as to why it has to stay and why it’s perfect. Of course it’s always wrong IMO hehe.

That’s my take on it,
so I will leave you now,
I have to go milk a cow.
Hehe

God Bless Roy

"Orange" also rhymes pretty good with "storage."

Joe

"Slurple" / "Purple" sounds like nonsense rhyming to me, so if the context is nonsense, it might work. But otherwise I'd say it's poor and forced.

We need to remember WHY we use rhymes. One (of several) reasons is, that you want to rhyme IMPORTANT words in a song, not all. That way you can use rhyming as a tool to put emphasis on the aspects of a story or a meaning unit, YOU as the writer find important.

So that way, rhyming is a writers tool to suggest certain interpretations of a song, and reduce unlimited options for listeners.

I can't really see "Slurple" / "Purple" work that way..

Making up words for a rhyme seems to have worked for Dr. Seuss. On the other hand, I haven't seen too many Dr. Seuss songs on the Billboard charts.

One of the things I enjoy about writing lyrics is the interaction between rhyme and story. I don't let the rhymes drive the story. However, I also don't have the story details in mind first and then find the rhymes - as is often recommended. Best I can say it is that I do them both simultaneously.

Upon reflection, maybe another way to say it is that there is always more to a story than can fit in a song. So the rhymes often are useful in suggesting what parts of the story to put in a song. I do realize, as I said, this goes against the advice usually given. In my defense, I usually spend a helluva long time making sure that the story still makes sense.

Here is an example: The subject of the song was opening day of the baseball season. A veteran was looking around him at all the things going on and realizing how much he still loved the game. The music was set first and required the following rhyme scheme:

A
B
A
B
C
D
C
D
D

and the D word had to rhyme with "day". Here is one of the verses:

I nursed a hamstring down in cactus
I gained a pound and lost a step
But when I take my batting practice
The fans know the deal's kept
The guy in the chicken get-up
He's gonna be worn out by May
But today he doesn't let up
Like me he came to play
On opening day

There are MANY different images that could be used here. Among them was the guy taking batting practice and the mascot running crazily around the field in his costume. So batting PRACTICE and chicken GET-UP came first.

Practice is a word that probably doesn't have many rhymes. Doesn't matter though because Cactus popped into my head immediately - the Cactus league is one of the spring training leagues (Grapefruit being the other). I wasn't worried that the casual listener wouldn't get the reference because the song was written for baseball fans. Once I had the rhyme, it occurred to me that a way to connect them was to tell that the player had been injured during spring training and was still hurting a bit but he was ready to do his job for the fans.

For the latter part of the verse, "let-up" came reasonably quickly as a rhyme for "get-up" and it put into my head the thought that the mascot might not have quite so much energy by halfway through the season but he was sure fired up for opening day. The ideas in the first and second part of the verse were therefore both supportive of the same idea.

So the basic notion of what was going on was there from the start - but the specific details were definitely influenced by the rhymes.

More than anyone wanted to know, of course

Scott

I think that close rhymes are often compelling - and I suspect that as listeners, we are getting used to hearing them. Rather like our tolerance for dissonance - which has also been increasing.

Taylor Swift is a good example of mainstream pop/county where she uses many close rhymes - and sometimes no rhymes at all.

Tom

I bought a drink, the cup was purple,
I have to think, so I don't slurp, I'll,
Slow right down and miss this turtle,
I am afraid a stinky burp'll,
Burst right out and make me hurtle,
Down a slope and fall on Myrtle

Bill on a more serious note, if songwriters are sending you stuff based on a rhyme scheme versus a good/wellcrafted lyric I'm guessing the songs aren't the cream of the crop, unless they are able to do both. Also a very important point is what genre are we talking about? Some genres do well w/lots of rhymes, others need little and some next to none.

In today's popular Country it's seems they are seeking those soft and conversational rhymes and boy do they sound good, now there's an artform in itself. In Traditional Country you can still get away w/more of the identical rhymes and it works. In a jazz/lounge/adult easy listening genre music rhymes are less needed/expected and they can be softer rhymes.

Overall rhymes are like candy for our ears. We come to expect almost crave it in a song atleast to some degree. Sometimes we can even anticipate the rhyme before it comes in the sing of the song. While I've enjoyed songs w/a healthy dose of rhymes I must say that I equally enjoy songs with a lesser amount that were just sprinkled ever so lightly yet in the right places (kind of like in a recipe) that get the job done but not overdone. In a retro/oldie kind of sound, identical rhymes are the norm and even heart/part true/blue works and is acceptable. Look at all those hits from the 50's that some still cover today, and yet they have those corny, simple/identical rhymes that listener's love and expect.

I never start a write w/rhymes in hand and work around them, rather the write (more often than not) starts itself and the rhymes just come w/the write.

From your example about the purple line, that writer has boxed/locked himself in and now it becomes work and not a labor of love. The song isn't flowing feely but rather he is trying to make the next ine fit w/a rhyme and contextually at the same time..OUCH! Here are several options for him to consider:

1. If he really likes his opening line he can consider exchanging "purple" for say "red" which rhymes easier w/other words, i.e. the raging anger in my soul changed my skies to red (afterall red is the typical anger color anyway )

2. He can change the location of the word "purple" in the line and maybe say: "my soul was raging anger, I saw a purple sky"

3. He can keep that line and make the line below be the line he has to rhyme hence taking off the pressure.

The raging anger in my soul changed my sky to purple
I felt as though I couldn't even breathe
The purple turned a gray that felt so heavy
I'm not sure why she felt she had to leave

And so on

Best to you,
Lynn

LOL...Joe you're the man with the gonads here. Glad it was you who brought it up. I would have menitoned storage and poridge and forrage except I was frighened the PRP's (perfect rhyme people) would take issue with it. Happy Sunday! Why ain't you in church?

I think Rhymes are over rated in Country music. They are however important if you are sitting across from a publisher. I have sat in on several pitch to publisher nights in Nashville and I can tell you they WILL look at your rhymes and rhyme scheme and if it is off they will call you on it.
Anyone who says they won't hasn't been to one of them pitch nights.

Why any writer would end a line with purple is beyond me to begin with. Why do that to yourself.
Personally I prefer soft rhymes and sometimes no rhymes if the song flows well but write one like that and it will never get past a screener in Nashville.

I made a comment a few months back that Taylor Swift was doing great. Breaking the rules and still successful. Well I got blasted here for that comment saying she was breaking the rules.
Finally someone agrees with me. Even her groove is different. I can't quite get it but I can hear it.

But thanks Tom for qualifying my statement.

I understand that to be the basis of formula writing... Pick a Style (Country Jazz blues, pop), Pick a patten VCVVBC, pick a rime scheme abbcca ... Write your song...

Cheers

Noel
(who still likes the rime scheme of lollipop)

Hey Duncan, that means "Orange" also Rhymes with "Whore Binge" too!!! (I've already heard of the "Storage/Porridge" near-ones!

Allus Happy To Help/Coin a New One!

Best Wishes,
Stan

All good rhymes, Duncan. I consider them perfect rhymes because I have an adjustable drawl. (You want "fire" to have one syllable? Or five?) And I really couldn't think of anything to rhyme with "church" except "lurch." Can't go to meetin' with that.

Joe

HiDee BroJoe:

Church/Perch/Dirt(s)/Skirts/Blurts/Merch/Shirts/Deserts/Kerch(ief)/Burt's/Curt's/Mert's/Gurt's/Hurts/Berserk(s)/Works/Turks/Nerfs/Smurfs/Turf(s)/Kerf/Slurp/Burp/Urps/Wyatt Erp/Turp(entine), Serp(entine), Surf, SLURP, Dog-Went-Wurf...EtceterURCH!

That was Evil Fun, BroMigo...I'm for-Sure-ch Hell-Bound, but hope that Helped ya!

Big Guy-Hugs,
Stan

Why is a "near rhyme" so bad? What's wrong with that? My songs have near rhymes in them because it "keeps it real". I'm not forcing anything, I'm writing straight from the heart (no books! LOL) and the last time I checked, hundreds of hits contained near rhymes.

There is nothing wrong with them. At one time they were highly discouraged, and considered bad writing, but not anymore.

Magne
Actually I don't think slurple was used to rhyme with purple.
It was "Maple Surple" in Roger Miller's song Dang Me

But if Bill used Slurple in the song he was writing it could work if set up right with his Grape Slurpee

Polly, the Music Biz appears to be full of people who want you to adhere to rules nobody (including them) follows. (And you should ignore me. I gots no hits.)

The challenge, I think, is to make "slurple" sound conversational. I bet it's possible.

Joe