JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum Help Song Royalties

If another artist wants to record one of your songs on a CD for sale, lets say it is a well known artist. How does it work? What is a normal percentage that people charge for a song or do they charge a flat fee? How does it work? Just an average because I know each case is probably different but does a songwriter get a % or a couple of K and nothing on the CD sales?

Thanks so much
Dan

9.1 cents is the mechanical royality rate right now. That is per song per CD,etc. If someone cut your song and you own 100% of said song, you would get $91.00 for each 1000 CD pressed and sold by major artist, if a indie artist, you would get $91.00 for the 1000 CDs pressed, sold or not.

Everett
Thank you my friend, that helps a lot

God Bless
Dan

Dan,

I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it, that 9.1 cent rate does not stop two parties from creating whatever deal they see fit. The 9.1 cent rate is a set rate that allows someone to record and market a song that is already in the market. When a songwriter/publisher has a song that has not been released yet, no one can record it without their permission. Once that song has been released, anyone can record it as long as they pay that 9.1 cent rate, but that does not stop someone from negotiating a different rate.

Hope the helps.

Mike

If it is a well known artist, they would go through your publishing company. If you don't have a publisher, it is doubtful you would get to a well known artist.

Almost everything people discuss when it comes to royalties is very much "cart before the horse." Royalties are paid as a result of sales (mechanicals) and significant airplay (Performances). If you don' have significant airplay, it is doubtful you will get significant attention, thereby not recieving significant sales. So there is nothing to discuss.

Most major releases these days come from primarily the artist themselves. There are "test marketing" that is done to radio. There are limited numbers of copies pressed up, these recieve no payment whatsoever. In the old days if you ever got an album, CD or cassette with the "Promotional copy use only, not for sale" phrase on it, those were free copies.

Since very few songs get significant airplay, most are rejected after a few don't test well. Some will rise to the top even against all odds.

The liscencing fees are as Everett says. But in every contract i have ever had on any cuts I have, one of the paragraphs in it are regarding promotional copies. There are also other contracts that have to be signed, synchronazation rights, cable, ring tones, etc. there are about 7-10 contracts that are now signed on songs for major releases. It is quite the headache and often for naught.

MAB

Marc
ahhhh so that is what they mean by the term promo. Also no chance of airtime, just stuck as one of 20 songs on a CD.

publisher, well no except if you are friends with the artist and they are trying to help you.

just trying to figure it out.

Thanks much
Dan

How it may work,
First you need to write some songs, get them in a pitchable condition, register them with the Copyright Office (Some differ on this but I recommend it), join a PRO, ASCAP, BMI. etc, find Artists/Producers that are seeking the type of songs you have, get a system to submit on, CD'S are the medium of choice, have lyric sheets ready to print, as well as a basic cover letter and submit.

If a song gets some action the Label/Publisher will most likely have a Publisher they work with that you can consider assigning your song to.

Getting thru those doors of Major Labels may be hard but some may allow it. Good luck.

Be sure to read those #%*@#%$! Contracts carefully and if there is something you don't understand have it read by a lawyer.

Dan,

If you're friends with an artist, don't pitch songs for them to cut, pitch songs for them to cowrite.

Dan,

On another thread here, Everette asked how record companies get their songs to radio. I have detailed it pretty well,read that and find out how much is involved. Essentially in the Country world, there is the "Country Radio Seminar" where the 1400 main players in radio link up with the 1200 people in the record business.

It is very expensive and very exclusive to be in. It is three days of cocktail parties, private showcases, moving and schmoozing with every established artist, manager, label,agent, producer, etc. are all there along with every program director, DJ's. wives. kids, girlfriends. It is the big industry picnic.

For every song and artist out there, there are thousands of steps and ALWAYS a personal relationship involved. That is something all the people working on the outside never understand. There is always an impression that you can get someone and just "mail songs in" and they find their way. That doesn't happen.

Record companies spend millions of dollars in a very established process to get people out there. There are promotion people who are involved for every song, every artist.There are promotional events like the Wal mart tours, there are thousands of free radio shows, benefits, etc. It is a very complicated and very extensive process.

I mostly sit back and try to get people to be intellegent and understand it before spending (and wasting) thousands of dollars and years in something that is much larger than they can comprehend. But there is also this.

EVERY writer, every artist, every producer, every musician, every label person, every promotion person, were a NOBODY outsider at one time. They worked their way into the inside by doing things that other people wanted to be a part of.

When Mike tells you "co-write" with the artist, that is THE way in the back doors. Look at it like this. Last year, the song of the year was called "STAY." It was recorded by Sugarland, and
written by Jennifer Nettles, the lead singer of that group. Now you, myself or anyone of thousands of writers might have written virtually the same song in our own ways. But Jennifer lived hers. She wrote it through her own pain. It is all her. There is NO WAY that show would take an outside song over her own even if it might be a better song, which for her, it wouldn't be.

A common thread down here at the Frank Brown Songwriter's festival where I am now, is 150 of the top writers in Nashville playing ten days of shows, golf and networking. With almost every single one of them, as they are playing their hits, both past, present, and future, they talk about writing them with the artist. That is now just about the only way. Downloading and the free aspect of music required that artists be involved in writing on their own stuff even if they don't write it all.

This is simply the extension of what the Beatles started 40 years ago. The artist IS the writer. They have their own pain, their own triumphs, their own journey's. That is what they are doing in the business. The music business is about getting what is inside of you out with as many people as possible and adding bottom line to every one's bottom line across the board.

Music is a personal one on one relationship with the listener. It is making them feel that "This is my life." The "mail it in" aspect of people trying to work their way in long distance, always miss that. When you have a choice between something you personally went through and want to get out, and someone who has no relation to you whatsover, there is no choice. That is why there are so few real successes in this business. it is Nike Commercial. Just do it. But you have to get out of the living room, out of the computer, out of the comfort of your surroundings, friends and neighbors, and make those personal contacts. Wriiting with artists is part of that.

Let me ask you all this. How much spam do you get a day on the Internet? How many ads to enlarge your penis or breast size, how many lucrative real estate deals are JUST WAITING FOR YOU, how many pyramid scams have you gotten? How many do you respond to? I am willing to bet not many.

The reason is because not only is it a waste of your time, money and effort, but many of them are downright dangerous. The largest crime in America is identity theft. Much of the reason for that is people sharing their information online and opening themselves up to it. Another is viruses. There are so many people out there trying to crash our systems, from general college kids being jerks, to terrorists, who would love nothing better than to kill the "Great Satan."

Well that is what it is like in the real music business. There are litereally millions of songs, artists, web sites, etc. out there. About half of all these threads are reporting on some scam or another. Well that is why in the music business you only deal with people you know personally.

On this thread as well as others we are all getting to know each other. Every time a JPF'r comes to Nashville, Mike and I and others try to get out to see and support them. We are constantly offering ideas and advice to keep all of you seeing the bigger picture. That is what all of this is about.

I hope it helps.

MAB

Dan,

When you are dealing in a business that a single can cost between $100,000-$500,000 to promote and can make up to 10-20 million dollars, you don't just send MP3's. You have to remember that at every level of the business, especially the higher levels, all the companies are competing. So if you don't have the personal contacts and send your representatives, your competition does.

MAB

Marc
your insight into the music business is so enlightening. I do so appreciate it. Wow, so much involved for sure .. I would be smiling just if I make a number 20 cut on a CD by someone who is known. Certainly some of the old timers I know are no longer even close to Major in the music business. But heck I would take a spot for free on a CD just cause I do it for fun anyway. Great to have someone that is in the business and can educate all of us on how extensive the whole process is ... and how expensive the whole process is ..
Big Thanks Marc

I always like to say that "The more you know about the music business, the less you want to know." LOL!

It can be complicated and is a lot to watch out for, but you can't let the things you can't do anything about consume you.

Take it one step at a time. Write songs that are intriquing, interesting that get and keep people's attention. Make sure they are recorded well and conform to a particular market you are aiming for without losing your identity.

Then find other people to add to your team. If you draw people in, you will find your ways into back doors. That will get you to radio if you create enough of an interest in what you do.

Be patient, be good, try not to suck.- Aristotle

MAB

Just reading the thread was an education in itself--This is EXACTLY why JPF has stood the test of time and is such a great resource!