JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum Contract rewrite...is this ok?

Hey gang.....

My sister got a contract from (what I'm assuming to be a less than reputable co) and she's on the verge of sending it back...I'm rewriting the contact...why? well...guess?? yep, it has her paying all expenses..naming them cowriter...all the while promising big money "if" or "when" due. Grrr

Anyway....here's what they say...

I agree that the composer and I shall be hereafter 5/95 owners of the above completed songs (words and music) I understand ...$25,000 advanced royalties according to (name od co) GUARANTEE when earned

that changes may be made in the song words where necessary, in the music composers judgement, to make the lyric meter-stanza more for commercial recording
I will pay for the demo session, and copies of our songs on records or tapes only, ti leave with anyone who shows interest in recording the above song material commercially. $165 demo session (5) copies $4.00 each to help promote immediately
I understand the composer will handle all marketing, of all song material we write on a 5% basis. I give my full permission to my music co-writer , to handle the recording session and I fully realize there are no refunds, after work has been started on our song material. Contract validity ends one year or if songs are not paid in full
I give my persission to (co name) to negotiate for hire said songs with song publishers,motion picture studios, record companies, radio & television stations. I also understand no financial returns are guaranteed or promised by (co name) except royalties when earned. I am financially able to pay for my demo sessions and copies
I also give my permission to have the above mentioned songs broadcast over any radio or tel;evision station. My comnposer to recieve 5% royalties when earned
I understand I will recieve a recorded copy of each song we co-write together on record or tape within approximately 45 days after final payment and (co name) is not responsible for delays beyond their control


OK, that is the contract she got...and this is what I'm writing for her to send back...


Writer-Composer(s) name or pen name


1. I agree that the composer and I shall be hereafter 5/95% owners of the above completed song(s)…Words and Music…with royalties distributed as 95% to myself___________________and 5% to the cowriter________________________
2. I agree that changes may be made to the lyric where necessary and agree to allow the composer to make that judgement for commercial recording purposes.
3. I agree that demo’s of the above named songs will be of no cost to me, as a cowriter. OR, I agree, if I were to pay for the demo, the $165.00 per demo cost, I alone, __________________, will retain 100% of the above named songs.
4. I give my permission for _______________________ to retain 50% of publishing royalties with the other 50% belong to myself, unless cowriting is attained, at which point, I agree to allow ______(co name)____________ to retain 25% of the publishing royalties with 50% retained by myself, _____________, with the remaining 25% belonging to said cowriter, __________________who is employed by (co name) .
5. I give my permission for songs named above to be marketed to any and all markets seeking material.


OK, yes, I know, it's a bit of an overstepped version of the version she was sent...but this co is using her money to make a demo they will send her and if she ever gets a cut, they'll take part after her paying for the demo...if it's a cowrite...it's a 50/50, should be anyway...but in this case, I'm sure they won't contact her again. They won't give her a phone # to call, only mail or email..."we don't have a number for unknown writers, such as youself" WHAT??? I was amazed she didn't lose the guys email...but it's her thing...I'm trying ot help her not lose $$ while helping her get some songs to music...anyway...what did I leave out?............... what should I leave out?


Thanks for any help y'all have to give.

Caroline,

What you left out was "No!"

I don't get any of this? Why would she give up any of her copyright, if she pays for the demo? Then it's a work for hire.

If she's capable of humming the lyric, she can have a pro studio help arrange harmony(chords) for that as a work-for-hire, for less than 100$.

So basically she can have a pro guitar/voc demo done for about 250$, if she sends a studio a recording with her humming. AND she'll keep ALL her rights, and don't get the hassle..

If not, she's better off with a slap to her face IMO

In terms of the contract rewrite, it's not clear to me if she agrees to give just publishing away (which is common), or the actual mechanical royalties (which is a no-no, unless they really are cowriting the song)..?

This sounds like a demo service much like Paramount Group. I would just pass on this offer.

Mike has spoken -- and he says NO!!!

If your sister must go ahead with this, just tell her to send in a couple of hundred and not bother with the song. She'll get the same results either way.

Kevin

Ridiculous contract Caroline. Lock your sister up till she comes to her senses.

Best, John

I agree, but it's her baby to deal with. I was just happy that she let me take the contract and fiddle with it.

I don't get any of that. Why would anybody do this 5/95% business? Are their five writers on the song? Geez, why does this have to be so hard. It is a demo. Toss out ALL the stuff about making money. forget it. You are not going to make any money. Period.

Act as if no money will ever be made and it is going to pitch and promote your sister as a writer. then would she do it. The music business HAS to be done like that. Each writer has to act as if they will never make a dime (because they probably won't) and then find out how important it is to them to get a demo.

We write and record songs for the chance and creative outlet. The whole money thing is so hard to pin down I would just rather people left that out completely. You act as if you never make a dime and if you do you are pleasently surprised. But if you do not have a hit single that breaks the top 30, you will never make enough money to pay for the cost of the demo.

Tell her that and see what she says. That is the honest to God truth.

MAB

If I were you, I wouldn't have done that. If she won't listen, let her get burned. Any thing else is enabling. She needed "tough love."

Let her see this post.

This is a classic way that a demo studio uses someone's naivete and ego to make money. It is disrepsect for a studio to try to make a songwriter think the studio wants to publish the song because it is hit quality, yet the studio wants the songwriter to pay for the demo. One of the classic come ons is to say that they are investing half of the demo cost. Usually, they are not. Your "half" pays for the whole demo and they leave with money in their pockets. It is also disrepect that a studio would want to be a cowriter with a songwriter but NOT LET THE SONGWRITER HAVE THEIR PHONE NUMBER!!! I'd never write with someone who didn't trust me enough to give me their phone number. Now, if they were writing for a fee, and not asking for any of the copyright, that would be different. Still, most of the "writing music for a fee" deals are not very good. Best is to find a cowriter who trusts you, who you trust, and when you get a good song and you AND YOUR TEAM agree that this song is worth investing money in, then you do a demo.

Speaking of teams...a team can protect you from spending money on people who do not respect you. Your sister is trying to help you here. The best help she offered was to warn you against this. She would be a good team member for you. You can do a search here on "team" and "teams" to find some good ideas about building a team of advisers to help you make good decisions in your songwriting and/or music career.

Spending money for a studio that doesn't respect you enough to give you a phone number, yet says they respect you enough to want to cowrite a song with you, is not a good business decision.

I don't know this company, I don't want to know. They may be doing everything perfectly legally, and they probably are. But it is NOT a good business idea to give up half of your song and PAY someone to do it.

All the Best,
Mike

Interesting contract - Did it come with the spelling mistakes? Are you going to share the name of the perpetrators? We should have a blacklist to put them on.

Maybe your sister should join JPF.

Colin

Colin,

I don't know about Brian, but i do not like black lists. We could probably start a black list and add a name or two every week from now until the rapture, hmmm, probably after it too, since so many of those likely to make the list would still be here. Businesses change names, new people get into them, it goes on and on.

It is much better to educate people.

I've also seen businesses who were completely on the up and up get maligned by folks who expected a lot more than they were either contracted or even promised to get. To me, it's not a good idea.

But there are certain things that, even if they are legal, are just not good business.

Publishers who only sign songs to get the demo business are very often not really publishers, but demo studios looking to get more demos sold.

Songwriting services who want to write music to a song and then keep half of it...well...here's the secret. They want to use that music for other songs. They'll look at the words and try to match them up to tracks they already have, and often even to melodies they already have, and just put new vocals on them. While the songwriter has paid for a complete demo, they just really get a vocal, often sung by the publisher/studio owner/musician/producer/Colonel. They want to own half the song so no one can sue them for using the same exact melody and backing tracks.

Keep the songwriting, publishing, pitching, and demoing separate UNLESS you have a long, trusting relationship (THAT HAS THE APPROVAL OF YOUR TEAM) with that business.

Don't do a demo until your team says you are ready.

Don't sign a deal with anyone who promises to make you a star or a hit writer without your team REALLY scrutinizing them and fully agreeing on it. And then, don't give them money, let THEM find investors.

Rotate your tires.

Wash your hands for 20 seconds (about the time it says to say the Lord's Prayer) several times throughout the day.

Brush and floss your teeth religiously.

Keep three days of food and water, along with a crank powered radio and some duct tape, in the house at all times.

Keep right except to pass.

All the Best,
Mike

"Keep right except to pass"

Check your local driving rules -- this is an international forum.

Kevin

Sorry, I forgot there were Virginians here.

Keep ->

Ha! No Colin, I own 100% of all spelling errors. Nice, huh!
Guys, I know she should run, but she's at a point where she's too frustrated to not do something...even if wrong. I was hoping that by rewriting it, they'd either agree or leave her alone.

Yes, you are right - I was only half serious, but it seems we read similar posts every week or so. But as you say, one man's meat is another man's poison.

When I deal with contracts for clients (not music contracts), the basic thing is that the contract has to make sense. Fussing around with specific workding is a useless exercise if the basic idea is senseless. It is common for a despirate client who wants a deal to ask me to just fix the big things in a contract like this - I always decline to do so. When this goes South, you sister will say to you --- well you wrote the contract and it is your fault. Your verbal cautions will not be remembered.

Tom

Hi Tom, well, she may blame me, but I don't feel it's likely. She's not that type of person...my other sister...well, she may be a different story...but this one is really wanting to do something good, and she's a good writer..she just needs to find a musical collaborator, which is what I've told her before. I'd prefer she work with someone who could really bring her lyrics to life. She's learning to play, she's working on getting set up to record, and I hope that makes a difference.

Thanks for the input though, if it does go south, it wouldn't surprise me, I've checked out the company, not impressed at all...promises of grandeur...nothing to back it up.

One of the worst one sided contracts I've ever seen, but you know what they say, there's one born every minute. It must work for those scam people from Nigeria, they keep doing it, so it might work on some song writers.

Colin, and anyone else who may be interested...

I'd never name a company specifically, unless it were my own mishap...even then, it would depend on the situation. Blacklisting would do nothing for me..it would do nothing for anyone other than make them think I may be the type to put names out there without having checked them out. (lol)

I'd prefer to not name names...just as I won't publicly name names of cowriters who've burned me int he past...they however, know how I feel and what I think..I would also be willing ot privately warn folks about them...were I to see the need...but I've got one mission here...and it's to keep my sister from getting rheemed, so with that in mind, I'll keep to my original question...is the rewrite I did ok? Have I missed anything? Should I change anything?

Oh, and she is a member here, more of a lurker, if you will, so she's probably gonna be reading over this..(hi sis) I just want to help her out and give her some opportunities. So, with that in mind...is there any musicators who may be willing to do a cowrite with my unknown, annonymous sister? PM me, we'll talk!

Everything looks pretty good. The only thing I see missing is the signature line. Here's one you can use:


________________________________________________________
Abandon all hope all ye who sign here.


Kevin

Ha Ha Ha!!!! you funny guy!!!


I know...it's not great...but she really wants to do this, and I really want her to follow her dreams...do something she loves...and feel good about it...if she gets burned...she gets burned...I can't stop her form that, but I can at least offer her some advice, and some help..Odds are, this co willnot return my version, signed. They likely won't agree to any of it. Especially if they aren't going to make money. Oooh...I just got an idea! I'll just make it a work for hire contract...anyone got something basic I can use for that? That way, she keeps it all, she pays for what she gets...no...wait, that'll end up getting her songs she doesn't like, like the last one...again..HELP!!!

I think that's true. You need to determine your own boundaries and what you will tolerate in the name of music business.

Why don't she post some of her lyrics in here, and prove herself. She won't find good people through shortcuts..

If her lyrics won't make it on one of the largest social sites for songwriters, they won't make it anywhere.

Post some, take the hard knocks, develop and get real. That's the route to big rewards

Hi Mag,

I have no idea why she won't post anything. But, it has to be her thing...she has to be comfortable with it. This isn't her shortcut...it's mine...just thought I'd ask. The worst that can happen is someone says no...but that's better than not asking...right?

There's one here http://www.copylaw.com/forms/Workhire.html

Now, make you sister sign it

Oh, well, since my last post here, she's now decided...YAY!!! that she's moving on, not messing with this co. I'm so happy!!! Now...to get her moving in the right direction...

That's good Caroline. Now you can unlock the door to the cage you had her in.

John

Whew. Tell her I'm proud of her.

As a friend of mine once wrote:

"That's not life, that's just life like I'd like it to be."

Life is too short to live in a fantasy world. You end up missing real beauty and then you are disappointed.

John....you want me to do WHATVVV Leet her out... Have you gone mad??

Well, maybe not, but you could let me out of my cage.

John

Ok, but only for a few minutes...and you can't tell anyone who did it!

I promise! I can't stop smiling now Caroline.

Mike...yeah...I'm so glad...she's really writtien some very good lyrics, she has melody to most, just doens't have the cash...so she's trying to go along with something that will be less expensive...and I would rather her find someone who can play, even though she plays much better than I do, she shoudl really get more involved in that...do some of her own...at least to see what she wants to pay for.

Thanks to all of you..I know this really should be her post, but I wanted to get input, even if she was willing to go ahead...thankfully she's not!! Oh Joy!!! Hooray!! Happy Dancing here...

Im happy she's come to her senses. I think that's the first most important step into music business.

There are a lot of very talented people out there, and it's important to find the collaborator(s) who are not only good, but the right partners *for you*.

That not only means having musical talent to match your lyrical talent (or vice versa), but a similar outlook on what you want to accomplish, working habits, expectations, etc. Everybody here was at the starting gate at one point, and I hope she'll take the time to find out more about the business, and find the right co-writers so she won't be in this confusing position again.

I sign nothing.......even get my wife to sing cheques LOL.

The only contract I ever signed left me in a heap of trouble.....won't bore you with the details.

I have got by for decades with a handshake and/or a verbal agreement.

Contracts are not needed if you know and trust the people you work with.

If any studio or demo house or anybody else for that matter wanted me to sign any long winded lawyer orchestrated piece of paper I would take my business elsewhere.

Contracts, especially in the music industry are aimed at putting folk over a barrel and cheating the poor guy who signs one.