JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Rhyme Analysis - Hey Stephen - Taylor Swift

Here are some of the off / close rhymes that Taylor Swift uses in Hey Stephen. I should not that it is not always easy at first blush to determine what lines / words she is rhyming. I give her a lot of credit for her writing in this regard.

Tom

window
cold

angel
rain so

tonight
come out

Hey Stephen, I know looks can be deceiving
but I know I saw a light in you
And as we walked we were talking and I didn’t say half the things I wanted to
Of all the girls tossing rocks at your window
I’ll the one waiting there even when it’s cold
Hey Stephen, boy you might have me believing
I don’t always have to be alone

Cause I can’t help it if you look like an angel
Can’t help it if I wanna kiss you in the rain so
Come feel this magic I’ve been feeling since I met you
Can’t help it if there’s no one else
I can’t help myself

Hey Stephen, I’ve been holding back this feeling
so I’ve got some things to say to you
I’ve seen it all so I thought but I never see nobody shine the way you do
The way you walk the way you talk the way you say my name
It’s beautiful, wonderful don’t you ever change
Hey Stephen, why are people always leaving I think you and I should stay the same

Cause I can’t help it if you look like an angel
Can’t help it if I wanna kiss you in the rain so
Come feel this magic I’ve been feeling since I met you
Can’t help it if there’s no one else
I can’t help myself

They're dimming the street lights,
you're perfect for me why aren’t you here tonight
I’m waiting alone now so come on and come out and pull me near
Shine, shine, shine

Hey Stephen, I could give you fifty reasons why I should be the one you choose
All those other girls, well they’re beautiful but would they write a song for you

I can’t help it if you look like an angel
Can’t help it if I wanna kiss you in the rain so
Come feel this magic I’ve been feeling since I met you
Can’t help it if there’s no one else
I can’t help myself

If you look like an angel
Can’t help it if I wanna kiss you in the rain so
Come feel this magic I’ve been feeling since I met you
Can’t help it if there’s no one else
I can’t help myself, myself
Can’t help myself
I can’t help myself

Hey Tom,

I really like this idea of putting up lyrics and people having a look at them, lyrics from songs that have done well. Nice idea.

Alan

I think Ande shows, like in most things Taylor Swift does, the empHAsis she puts on the lines are fresh. Same things with her melodies and the productions of her songs. It's all very much in the detail, and that's where the contemporary country is, right now, I recon!

I've heard Taylor brings half-baked ideas to pros who flesh them out. and that she can't sing or play very well and needs lotsa studio tricks to make her sound like anything. like Britney. with lines like "the way you walk, the way you talk, don't ever change..." those songs are aimed at young girls. just my opinion.

Grouch: You shouldn't talk about things that you know nothing about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3lyBXrzR3s -- Maybe she's just too real for you.

Kevin

Kevin, if you like her that's fine by me. but her voice and repetitous guitar chords grated on me after a minute. and that song has lyrics that (to me) sound like they were aimed at 16 year olds. all that clip did was confirm what I'd heard from reputable people. that is only my view and Taylor's career won't be harmed one bit by it.

It is always that there are those that do and those that complain. Taylor's first hit, "Tim McGraw" was written by herself at 14 for a talent show at her school. One record executive Scott Borchetta quit his job at Sony to form and run a label around her. She was the biggest selling act in ALL of music last year and at 18 years old presides over a 22 million dollar a year empire that she oversees EVERY detail on.

Her songs are embraced by people from small little girls to over forty housewives and mothers. She writes very clever songs and one of them "our song" is about the noises that make the back ground of a teenage love affair. A slamming door, talking low on the phone so your mother don't know. She has overwhelmed the entire industry and has pretty much every record executive scrambling to find their own and EVERY artist in the world trying to figure out how to manipulate the Internet like she has. Every writer in town also in LA and New York are beating her door down to write with her.

You can cut her down all you want to. Either she has the entire world fooled (which DON'T Happen in this day and age) or she has some people very jealous and missing the forrest for the trees. Sometimes you have to hand it to people who figure any of this stuff out. You don't have to like them but respect is earned. And looks like she has done it in a lot of different areas.

MAB

Ande, good additions. Thanks.

Tom

Couch: I actually picked that video out because in a way it made both of our points. Yes, she is not the greatest singer/player to ever hit this earth. Yes, they have her co-writing with tons of pro writers (even though it sounds like she started this one by herself).

But it shows she is not fake, that she can sing and play "good enough". They might used auto-tune on her in the studio, but I bet they do that for everybody nowadays.

Kevin

The main comment on her from professionals is that she is worlds away from Faith Hill, who had to have each note autotuned. Almost everyone has been using it for years. She is NO WHERE NEAR as bad as half of the singers out there.

MAB

Hi Everyone,
I think that Taylor Swift is a great role model for so many young girls.Yeah,I know thats she's a rich kid and all,but to me it just shows that if you work very hard at something that you love to do ,you can be successful and you can make your dreams come true.She seems so real and so approachable.Her songs are real and about real things that happen to real girls.She doesnt have to sell sex to be successful like so many of the other young performers today.I dont think that there is anything fake about her(cept for her eyelashes maybe...lol).
Michelle

I know this is about posting the lyric and I like when we do that here and talk about them etc...

No to harp on about Taylor Swift, but ya need to understand the middle a little bit.

Grouch thinks she's probably with no real talent, Marc says "the whole world can't be fooled " etc....

To all,

The whole world CAN be fooled it happens ALL the time. And in music and entertainment it's pretty easy.
And Taylor Swift has talent... she's very very good at what she is - a POP star.
And the bonus is she can write/construct a good pop contemporary hit song.
Do you have any idea how hard that is to do?

She is 80% + pop and that's what lots of mainstream Country is when it comes to the charts the MAIN charts that is today.

She is so much closer to Avril Lavine then she is too Loretta Lynn.

I have a girl in my studio now Kasey who is 13 she idolizes her and she's nearly as good as Taylor in a few years with work and luck she'll catch her at least from the creative end.

See how I always talk about perception? Well here's some more. If you had a child of yours that was singing and playing and writing songs of ANY KIND you'd be thrilled.
Now how about adding a massive music career and tons of money on top of that..
How would you feel then?

Also when I work with Kasey and I see and hear her sing, and look at these lyrics etc.. I'm amazed at how far she is passed where I was at 13. I took playing & music overall" much more serious but that isn't what being a POP STAR today is all about.
But for the most part you're still looking at alot of work & perseverance.


Kasey is telling us what to do in the studio. She's confident and hard working and she just writes CATCHY songs period. And she can flat out sing! I use NO auto tune at all on her. Even if some songs never change chords. she still no how to make them move.
She has a way with melodies and talking exactly about what young people think & feel just like Taylor Swift.

In case anyone didn't know HIT songs and POPULAR music is ALL 100% percent about YOUTH!!!

So it's easy for me to see & hear differentiate and give credit where it is due. Just work in the different worlds than the one you like and you'll see & learn

All that said - Today's is the worst display of pop music of any decade by FAR!
I have never heard so much junk on the radio. More carbon copies, And more songs built off EXACT spin offs & rip offs of other older hit songs-This is not an opinion! But a professional judgment. I have been studying popular music all my life.
THis is the fault of the music industry 100% not what the public wants, won't let anyone feed me that BS graphics and charts crap. The public is clueless! It wants WHATEVER you feed it! And then it just wants more of what you just fed it.


Peace
Sub

Gosh, she must be the first person ever to aim songs at young girls. I like her. She's not my favorite but I like her. In my mind, the hottest new country stars of the last five years are Carrie Underwood, Taylor Swift, and Jennifer Nettles. I don't know a lot about Nettles except she can sing and write really well but Swift and Underwood are both good role models and we need that in this world. And they both have talent to back it up. Taylor doesn't have Carrie's vocal power but she's very good at what she does.

And talking about Swift bringing ideas to the pros, most of her songs have been written with Liz Rose and on the second album she has sole writing credit on most of them.

Couchgrouch, I'm with you on this one. Watched her on a country show( she's not country) and I was not impressed, what is that saying about fooling some of the people all the time, remember the Pied Piper. That's Nashville today.

Is it about fooling people? Are all that get successful in any aspect of life always going to be the best?

I used to hear all these arguments before about 3 guys who produced and wrote many hits for singers in the late 80s. They were meant to be crap, no substance, robbing money from kids etc. The truth is what they did was fun and people enjoyed it. And its the same with Taylor Swift and any one else, she writes singable songs that people like. Hell, I like it.

Mike: That is what people were saying in the 80s over here, then in the 90s, and again these days The thing is there is going to be some great stuff, some good stuff and some awful stuff, be it music, books, art and so on. I think pop music is better these days than the early 90s if you ask me, the mid ish late 90s pop music went back to melodies and lyrics again.

Just my 2 cents

Marc, I'm not "complaining". I just don't hear a good singer, player or writer in TS. allmusic.com lists another writer on Tim McGraw besides Taylor. none of what you mentioned about big writers wanting to write with her means she's any good...it just means they know they'll make big $$$ if they get a song on her cd. the guy forming a company around her...same deal. she's a hot commodity. I never said she didn't sell records. in fact, I compared her to Britney. I read an interview with her and she came off as an airhead.

as for those who "do"...Marc, you couldn't write a decent song to save your hide. I could outwrite you after a claw hammer lobotomy. so be careful about your insults and stick to your "mentoring".

Mr. Grouch,

Just write on Bro. and live on up to your name. Guess you and I will dissagree like we always seem to do.
Good luck to you no matter what.

MAB

LOL! Couch, I have no doubt that if you had gotten off your duff and moved to nashville 10-15 years ago, that we wouldn't be conversing here, because you would be one of "those" co-writers that we all talk about here. In fact, you'd probably be helping TS with her stories and lyrics. However, insulting Marc so directly doesn't seem like a good way to win friends and influence people. You never know who you might need down the road!

Kevin

Tom started this thread to help us analyze what is popular with the young set today and I think the exercise is useful, especially to Tom who is working with Justice.

Taylor is very talented and outgoing. If that soundtrack was really her playing live on the bus (with a little added reverb!), it is obvious she can play and sing at a very respectable level. If she really writes her own lyrics and melodies (I have no reason to think otherwise), she is very talented in that arena too. Anyone who says otherwise is full of sour grapes or is jealous. I am pretty sure she doesn't care. Is she hot? Of course - what in the hell is wrong with that?

Is it country? The judge of that is the people who buy her music. Are country music fans buying her music? Evidently so. Does she sound like a country singer from the sixties? No. Should she? No. If you want to listen to Patsy Cline, go buy Patsy's CD.

Finally, would I rather listen to Taylor than rap or hip-hop or death metal or other modern radio air pollution? Darn right I would.

Kevin,

Thanks, but it happens from time to time. The point here is one that is taking place all over. These same complaints are the same thing people have always said whenever a genre morphs into something different than some people grew up with. Music is always martketed to the young, and always has been.

These same comments were made with Frank Sinatra, Elvis, The Beatles, Alabama, Garth Brooks, Shania Twain, etc. There is always someone that shifts the dynamic. It is not always good but it does happen. And some people don't like it and go out of their way to make their displeasure known. And of course, that is why we have forums like this.

It happens in other industries as well. Micheal Jordan shifted the parameters in Basketball, Tiger Woods in golf. They of course were great and became the bar all else were measured by.

The paradym has shifted now in the era of the Internet, furious downloading and constantly changing tastes and buying trends. Everybody wants what is new. But what is new is not always what is great. However, it is harder to fool people all the time.

In music, the "fooling them" that I speak of would be American Idol, where winner after winner is seen by hundreds of millions of people, yet can't sell enough product to justify the cost of the release. In an age of "free" selling material, legal downloads, and CD's is damn near impossible, and you can't do it with crap.

Taylor Swift for however you view her, has done that well in an area that EVERYONE is trying to do the same thing. Mike Cairo, myself and every writer in Nashville, New York and LA are writing with dozens of acts, young, old, in the middle. Many of them release product, or are in the perview of the public and the industry. But very few of them get very far. It is the nature of the beast.

For me, I think her writing personifies her generation, and that is where music is being marketed. Many people, particularly older people (I am 51, so I am older too) feel it is not "True" to the definitions they grew up with and adhere to in their writing or perceptions. But they are not the market. And the marketplace, for the most part, dictates what sells and what doesn't.

For every singer, there are hundreds just like them in the mix. Some take off, most don't. The same with songs. And with all of it, success is in the eye or ears of the beholder.

It's a strange business. Dictated totally by opinions. We all got em'. Some come of acerbic some try for a more subtle approach, at the end of the day, no one really knows what is going to work or fail. You just try to increase the level of your odds, write songs that don't suck (apparently that something all my songs do, say some people) try to make them work on as many levels as you can and try to keep moving forward as much as you can.

You constantly learn and try to take what other people have done, expand upon it just like every business in history. Robert Fulton invented the steam engine and other people built upon it. Music is the same way. It changes, adapts, morphs into other things whether we like it or not. Definitions change, fans change, what was once in one genre turns into something else, and often we don't recognize it. But it is going to change. That is the only thing constant.

Country has had an interesting life span because it usually had a longer lived fan base. In the old days if you got a couple of country hits, you were usually set for life. And to a degree that is still truer than most genres. But when your older fans become less of a purchasing force, don't understand or use the modern technologies, or just plain die off, you have to find ways to replenish your income streams. It does no good to craft a product around people that by very definition don't buy that product or buy it in such a decreasing amount it doesn't keep up with an increasingly smaller bottom line.

So we all continue along in whatever way we can. Some of us will do our best to try and help people along the way and others will do whatever they will do. At the end of the day I personally believe it is how many lives you positively touch and help out that matters. Whether that is writing a song that gets a great reaction, makes someone laugh, think, cry or whatever emotional reaction. And when we record it well, get it out there in the marketplace of ideas, and find other people like it as well as we do, that is all gravy. We are all trying to do the same thing. Share what's inside of us with as many people as we can.

Taylor Swift seems to be doing that well right now. In the future there will be somebody else. Always is. The only thing constant is change.

MAB

Nicely said Mark.

Your last few liens remind me a song:

'Never forget where you're coming from,
Never pretend that it's all real
Some day this will be all be someone else's dream.'

That was one of the last hits of a 'boy band' called Take That, who strangely enough have reformed and come back and doing better than ever. Just thought I'd share that for some reason.

Cheers

Alan

Hi Tom,

I'd like to look at the "window/it's cold/alone" rhyming configuration. I have a few thoughts for your discussion.

...interesting how feminine rhymes can work with masculine, but it can work, if one "holds on" to that last, unstressed syllable of the feminine, as in

Of all the girls tossing rocks at your WINdow (WINdowwww)
I’ll the one waiting there even when it’s COLD
Hey Stephen, boy you might have me believing
I don’t always have to be aLONE

normally, you're gonna hear "WIN and COLD" the most, but sustaining that last unstressed syllable ("dowwww") shows that the writer here has a decent grasp of their craft...

Plus, you really have a double "slant" rhyme here: WINdow/it's COLD and if "IT'S " is put on the downbeat, it becomes accented "by default" ...but they didn't need to go that far, because they had one more rhyme coming, at the end of the verse, to re-enforce the long " O " sound they had going on. Sure "window" still is a little "wrong" there, but in the bigger picture, you stand back and say, hey, I like the imagery there, let's let THAT trump the rhyme...

Maybe since Taylor has two more long " O "s after the shaky "window" that "window" is a really "red herring rhyme" (my term for a word you think is being rhymed, but it's not!!!)-- "it's COLD and aLONE" come so fast, my brain doesn't have time to be unhappy with "window."

I think that last "alone" is INDEED there, so our brains hear a true rhyme, albeit a near one, with "it's COLD."

In other words, it's NOT like Taylor is ignoring the rules of good songwriting at all, and all that "modernism" is really a singer embracing "vowel sounds" and letting the consonants fall where they may. Vowels are what make the rhyme, and what a singer "holds on to" when singing...and if you sustain, hold on to an unaccented vowel, it gains higher status in the rhyme scheme.

...and the beautiful thing about songwriting is, we do all this "at the surface level" where all this theory never occurs to us, LOL, if it did we might get bogged down in it! No, we write and write and it either feels "right" ...or it doesn't...I like that about writing...it's an instant feedback machine...

Mike

Great post Marc..


Hi Spidey

I understand and there is truth in what your saying.
And no the most popular doesn't always have to be the best. We all know it is what is today. But at one time for a pretty long stretch this was the case.

At one time Great Music was VERY popular. And The BEST walked up every year and took there Grammy's. Stevie Wonder was The Best without question. How often in the 70's did he take the cake? I had no problem when Michael Jackson took over that role and walked away with everything all night at every awards show. It's clear! The most popular was also the best. What a perfect little world It used to happen from time to time.

As for the 90's I think it blows this decade off the map. First off most of all The "Ladies" were not only on the charts but they were GOOD! Really Good! To find anyone in there ball park today you have to go searching the internet. That too me is BS. hey your really special what did you make 10 grand this year selling off the internet? And another 10 in live shows? Lady Ga Ga Ga pulls that in in ONE night!

Who am I talking about? Paula Cole, Sarah Mclaughlin, Shawn Colivin, Tori Amos,
Alanis Morisette Bjork, etc.. etc... Then people who were from the late 80's sliding in there as well. Indigo Girls, Annie Lennox,Amie Mann and so on... These gals can all write and write REAL well. And sing! And PLAY!!

Who like them sits on the charts today? Ah nobody? Norah Jones? that was yesterday too.

Then the rock music was soooo much better. STP is one of my all time favorite bands. They can flat out play to begin with. People with NO ears used to think that groups from the grunge era all sounded exactly the same. NO the biggest rock groups from this era all sound the same. Perfect example

Here are the only ROCK groups you hear on the radio in the past 5 years.
NickelBack, Dautry, Three Doors Down, Fuel, then NickelBack 10 more times.

Okay you can't be and sound anymore the same. You can switch vocalist and not even skip a beat.

Here are some big ROCK groups from the 90's
Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, STP, Alice In Chains,Collective Soul
They DON"T sound alike. Oh yeah and Nirvana they weren't my favorite but they did NOT sound like Soundgarden.

Okay so much better! Every one of them is better. And guess what? Popular too.

Great groups like "Radio Head" would have to be found now by you... The music business is supposed to do that. But we know it's a changing world.

The versatility on the MAIN chart is horrendous as well. It's 90% hip hop.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who sees this Taylor Swift has to be POP which is what she is to make it on to that overall chart. Country like Rock is eaten up by hip hop & rap in this country. Unless the main chart is completely false.

It's the top 20 - Seventeen hip hop/rap songs, One pop girl, One pop country girl and one young Green Day sounding band. And of course whenever Nickelback puts out another crap record.

These are the facts Jack lol

Quick note:

I wasn't a freak over popular music in the 80's.. Way too much hair metal and or Flock Of Seagull make up boys dressed as girls synthetic sounding bands.
If you think back or watch some videos you should me amazed at the lameness.
Boy George!

BUT- what you did get was tremendous versatility on the chart. Of course it can't touch the 70's but still. Artists especially singers were still substantially different from each other in the 80's. I could cleary hear the difference between
Michael Jackson, Prince, Bruce, Madonna, Cindi Lauper, Pat Benatar, Huey Lewis, Phil Collins, etc.. etc...

Now back to Taylor - If you were pro in the biz you would love Taylor

'Cept for Strait

They'll be another one of those too.

MAB

That reminds me of a story.

It seems a Pope died and went to heaven. St. Peter brought him to a hill with many fine mansions and said, "Well, Pope, here's yours, right next to Pope John Paul and Pope Felix." The Pope said, "That's beautiful, and I thank God for it, but I can't help but notice a much larger mansion sitting by itself on that high hill over there, whose mansion is that?" "That one," said Peter, "belongs to Johnny Cash." "Johnny Cash?" said the Pope, "Why does he get such a large mansion, when the Popes get smaller ones?" "Because," said St. Peter, "There are a lot of Popes, but there's only one Johnny Cash."

Michael, what a great analysis. I have read it several times and see what you mean. I agree that the bottom line is that it works. There is a lot to think about here. I find it challenging to actually analyze here songs and rhymes - some of the things she does are not obvious.

Tom

Mike, who is Pope Felix? LOL!

Tom

.... actually I just Googled him and there were four Pope Felixes. You know your Popes.

Well this is a provocative thread. I am a little mystified. I think Mr. Grouch is hands down the best, most constantly skillful lyricist on this songwriting forum; or any other I have visited. Still I must say, the first time I heard Taylor Swift (singing "Our Song") I thought it was the most original and appealing country talent I had heard in years. The way she phrases her line are so unique, I knew immediately that only a singer-songwriter could come up it. To really analyze a Taylor Swift song, I think you would have to make reference to her unique musical phrasing, her tonal gymnastics, musical puns and disguised rhymes. I think she is an extremely clever writer, and though she is a better writer than a singer, her voice fits her songs so there is nothing to complain about. I think her head in on a little more straight than Brittany but she is young and has plenty of time to screw her life up. The danger is that she may not understand that fame is toxic. But for just blatant originality, I go back to the first time I heard her on the radio, which was not unlike the first time I heard the Beatles or the Eagles or James Taylor for instance: I said to myself, "Wow! this is completely original!"

for Marc...

didn't read any of the new posts. differences in music aside, it was very classy of you to give Roadside Rest a good review to Cameron. I'm a big believer in talent. I'm a bigger believer in honor and class.

Couch,

A very good song is a very good song. Roadside Rest is one of those. Cameron told me today he got a call from Russ Zavitson, who is a very good producer and big wheel in town. Produced several acts I have worked with. I like him very much and for him to call Cameron is a great sign.
Many times those really cool ones rise to the top. Good for him.

MAB

yeah, it's a great sign. made my day when I heard it Saturday. and if I ever get meet a guy like Russ, I hope God above makes sure there's someone else there to do the talking. I'll never be a UN diplomat.

That's why most people use publishers.

M

Marc, if you're still there...did you mean Russ called Cameron today?

Couch,

No. He e-mailed me on Friday. I was working with him on Thus.
He was asking if I knew Russ.
MAB

ok...I won't buy that Escalade just yet.

Dear Mr. Grouch,
I am very new here to JPF, have read a few posts on Muse as well. In one of your "volleys" back and forth to Mr. Barnette, you mentioned he should stick to his "mentoring"! If you were to Google the term "mentoring", you would find,(by definition) that is exactly what HE does! I'm not exactly sure what you do yet, besides the obvious!? I know Marc personally, he and I went to Keith Anderson's last CD release party together! I think if your mentoring track record was equal to his,...I wouldn't be making THIS post! Good luck with your endeavors,...

Droptine

Droptine, I'm sure Marc is a nice person and a good friend. we do have a few differences music-wise which is nothing new. music is ethereal and similar to religion in that respect. that said...I have no intention of ever being a mentor. I think it's obvious from my work posted here, the Muse, Toonsmith and Taxi that I'm a writer. That's all I want to be.

Hi All

I'm a BIG FAN of Taylor Swift, she is a natural beauty. I think what I love about her the most, she just likes having fun, she is herself, YOU GO TAYLOR, cause you got it GIRL>
TALENT!

One day I will have the money to buy all of her songs, cause I just love listening to her, I haven't heard Taylor sing a bad one YET.

Aussie fan
Michele

One should never try to analyse lyrics without the underlying composition and performance.

Example ;

~ Etta James

At last
my love has come along
my lonely days over
and life is like a song

Ooh, yeah, yeah
At last
the skies above are blue
My heart was wrapped up in clover
the night I looked at you

I found a dream
that I could speak to
A dream that I
can call my own
I found a thrill
to press my cheek to
A thrill that I have never known
Ohh, yeah, yeah

You smile
you smile
Ooh and then the spell was cast
And here we are in heaven
for you are mine at last

Audio ; http://www.emp3world.com/mp3/44895/Etta%20James/At%20Last

Click on "Download Now: Etta James - At Last", and it will pop up in your media player.

Cliched ? Perhaps. Blue/you etc. Where does over/clover come in ? But it works.

Analysing rhymes ? I wouldn't bother. I think the only question is, "Does it work ? "

cheers, niteshift

niteshift...that's an old song. what's cliche now was looked at in a different light then. but songs are melody/lyric/performance. At Last has a wonderful timeless melody and Etta James is a majestic singer. I can't speak for anyone else but I all I heard was a cute blonde with a squeaky little voice singing a boring love song with no melody. in 50 years it's doubtful anyone will be using TS as an example of a great song/performance the way you did with Etta.

bear in mind, that's only my opinion and no animals were harmed during its formation or expression.

ps i tend to agree about analyzing rhymes, though. to me, there are no cliched rhymes, only lines.

Yes, quite agree. Songwriting has it's roots in emotion, music, delivery, and lyrics to some point. When you try to analyse it, it all breaks down.

My point ? Learn by all means, but not to the extent that the outcome is just chopped liver.

PS - the "learning" song for me was "Somewhere Over the Rainbow". The melody and lyrics were given to the young blokes who had never heard it, and then had to write the backing. Not one got it right. It taught me the complexity and simpleness of music at the same time. Tis a paradox.

cheers, niteshift

I've learned more about songwriting from listening to Taylor Swift than any other writer I can think of in recent memory. It's all right there. The CD should have been called "How to write a hit song." The fact that her critic here began his post with "I heard that..." reveals all you need to know about the critic. Forming opinions on hearsay is never a good idea.

Swift is agreat example of someone who has great voice, despite the fact she might not be the next Aretha Franklin as a 'vocalist. Mick Jagger's the best example of that. Personally, I'll usually prefer the cool voice that has lots of style over the Celine Dion types. I dig Celine, but not for a whole CD. I'd rather listen to Joe Cocker than Luther Vandross. That's just me. Leanne Rimes is a much better vocalist than Taylor Swift but I'd rather hear Taylor Swift...I like her voice better. It's cooler. Not only that, she doesn't have to keep 'inventing' herself...she's just herself...and apparently that's enough. Amazing when one considers all of her drawbacks which numorous 'experts' here have brought to our attention, eh?. (Thanks, BTW...I'll make a note.) And just to clarify, she IS singing to 16 year olds. That's probably why she sounds like she's singing to 16 year olds. But the fact that she's doing that and people of all ages are enjoying it quickly answers the question, "Is she fooling us?" Why? Because she's not JUST singing to 16 year olds. She's singing to all of us. Saying something in a song that has universal appeal and relevance is a hard trick on it's own, but to do so within the framework or perspetive of a 16 year old who's singing to other 16 year olds is nothing less than brilliant from a craftsmanship point of view. So I guess the question is can her critic top that? I think he's just jealous that some high school kid did it right in front of him and made it look easy?

Great writing is a VERY rare commodity. Good writing happens about 60 times a minute.

br
www.writethismusic.com

Nite,

Great point, and one that had to be made here. That said, I also think analysing rhymnes is a great idea...if for no other reason than to learn new tools and approaches.

#1 rule of songwriting: don't end a line with the word 'purple'. Ever wonder how the great writers say so many cool things so many cool different ways while we sit around going through the 'near rhyme' dictionary looking for rhymes for 'heart' that aren't 'start' or 'apart'? Easy answer...they end their lines with words that have millions of rhymes. That way they're not boxed in by the rhyme scheme. They can say what they WANT to say rather than what they HAVE to say.

It only took 10 years for me to figure that out.

br
www.writethismusic.com

IMHO
Taylor Swift may be the biggest Pop/Country star to come along in about fifty years that has broken all the rules and got away with it.
Why?
Can she sing?
Her vocals are perfect for the songs she sings.

Can she write?.
She has written one song. Over and over and over. And every one has been a hit. Why? The songs don't follow any of the rules Nashville says you have to follow.
What rhyme scheme?
But they all tell a story about young love.
Who are YOU writing for?

She is what every teenage girl wishes she was. Beautiful, rich, and Popular.

I bet every teenage boy either has or wants a poster of her on his bedroom wall. Anyone remember Farah?

Adults like her music. It takes them back to a time of innocence and raging hormones. A time when they thought the world was gonna last forever. Invincible. In love with the girl/boy next door or having your heart broken by her/him.
Every song is familiar the first time you hear it, like you have heard it before.

She is instantly recognizable. How many words of her songs do you need to hear before you know it is her.

Will she last? I dunno. Sooner or later she will have to write a new song. But as long as what she is writing is grabbing the hearts and ears of the public she will be on top.

Try writing a song like she writes and pitch it. See how far it goes. Maybe she knows the secret.

Bill,

In my opinion she's followed way more Nashville rules than she's broken...ie, songwriting rules in general... She knows hooks. She knows repetition. She knows rhyme. She knows how to construct verses that are parallel yet different. She knows syllable count. She summarizes and concludes in her bridges. Her choruses are clearly different from her verses and almost always go up in energy. She understands melody like crazy. She exploits the simplest and most common chord progressions...1 6m 4 5 and 1 4 2m 5 (or variations thereof). She rarely even walks up or down between chords...she just changes chords. She rarely uses alternate bass notes under chords. It's so simple and clean. She doesn't add bars all over the place or even split bars very often for that matter. She doesn't mess with time. Only rule she broke that I can find on the record I have is the kick and snare play backwards on the intro to one of her songs, and that's production, not songwriting. Seems to me she's more like a walking, talking openbook songwriting 101 review session than anything resembling a rebel. What am I missing? What rules is she breaking?

Bill Renfrew
www.writethismusic.com

I bet Taylor never gives songwriting "rules" a thought. She writes what she feels and she has the talent to pull it off. While everyone can improve from wherever they are, some people just have the X-factor.

Colin,

I see your point...she has that X-factor, no doubt. But talent without craftsmanship results in nothing. Talent can only potentiate and accelerate craftsmanship...it can't produce it. Only by learning and doing is craftsmanship acquired. She may not consciously think about the common elements of hit songs (or what we've come to call 'rules' of songwriting) when she's writing now but I guarantee you that she knows what those elements, or rules, are. I'd also bet money she continues to make mental notes of common, identifiable elements in hit songs by other artists.

The fact that she's making the money she's making wasn't an innocent mistake made by a wide eyed dreamer. That girl had her mind set on one thing and one thing alone...making hit songs. But yes, when whe writes now I'd agree that songwriting rules are probably the furthest thing from her mind. To think that was always the case is probably not realistic.

Interesting to see that the result of not thinking about rules and TRULY writing from one's heart will usually result in more rules being followed than broken.

br
www.writethismusic.com