JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Musician Message Forum For female guitarists, bassists and drummers ...

Although we do have more performing female guitarists and bassists and drummers than we used to twenty years ago, there appears to still be fewer of them in the limelight compared to the number of male guitarists, bassists and drummers.

Or is there?

If you are one, please tell us who you are, what you play, and at what level. Go ahead and brag and post some youtube if you've got them.

Come on, I know you are out there. I am not alone.

Jean,

You are most certainly not alone. There are many very qualified female guitarists. But the ratio of female to men render the ones who achieve notariety very rare indeed. Actually I cannot think of very many at all outside of Carol Kane, the LA bass player, who have achieved a lot of fame.
One of the reasons for this IMO is much the same as the general job market. One of the reasons women don't always achieve the same pay as men are the propensity that they drop out of the job market to have children, more likely than men do. Since the advent of the home job market this has become less and less with women comprising a large segment of the small business owners.
Female musicians are often more likely to concentrate more on the singing aspect than the playing aspect. This is not always due to their own wishes, as much as it is the eye candy" effect that bands would rather have a compitant lead singer who looks great, than a qualified guitarist. Then, they are often the ones who get married, pregnant, etc. and drop out of the mainstream attempt for music success. For all too many, the biological clock gets in the way of the musical aspirations.
There are thousands of exceptions to this rule, I am sure. I do know quite a few credible female guitarists, and personally love it when a woman can really play. But for the most part they tend to find different focuses for their music. They are also often more likely to go to keyboard than guitar. I don't know why other than they are more likely to take piano lessons.
I suppose it is all some of life's little mysteries.

MAB

i'm not a guitar player but i wanted to let you know you're not alone! i belong to this group http://www.wimmn.com/ and they have jam sessions and there are many, many women who can really play. plus they have a 'girls rock camp' and boy, does it do a heart good to see a little eleven year old girl rip out her first solo on a flying V

i've heard lots of women singer/songwriters who are fantastic players. i think the reason they are not famous for guitar is that they tend to focus more in the folk genre and singer/songwriter and that's why they don't achieve fame... cuz their not rocking out, smashing guitars, doing all that stuff. they are more about skill etc., although maybe there will be more women in the future who want to rock out and get loud.

and then of course there's just good old sexism. why aren't the famous? well, same reason there aren't famous women basketball players, although there is incredible skill there. the engine is built around guys and it will take a while to change gears.

Babette,

You cannot factor out the revenue issue. Women's basketball has not been around as long as men's basketball and therefore does not command the same revenue as men's do. And that is the bottom line. The bottom line.
Sexism tends to be a red herring. There are many more men who don't make it also. The rule is actually that very few people achieve fame and success in relation to the amount of people trying for it. That is regardless of sex, race, creed, ethnic diversity etc. It is a bottom line world.

MAB

Check out Esperanza Spaulding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNYo3mfyq04

Tal Winkenfeld:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK03pYCLJho&feature=related

Here's a woman who is one of the all time greatest studio bass players, may have played bass on more hit records than anyone, Carol Kaye: http://www.carolkaye.com

There's IBMA Bluegrass bass player of the year, Missy Raines:
http://www.missyraines.com

Meshell Ndegeocello has been burning it up on the bass for years:
http://www.theworldhasmademethemanofmydreams.com/

White Zombie's Sean Yseult:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Yseult

Julie Slick is starting to really make a name:
http://groundcontrolmag.com/detail/1/790/

Let's not forget Tina Weymouth from the Talking Heads and the Tom Tom Club:
http://www.bassplayer.com/article/tina-weymouth/mar-97/5958

There's Rhonda Smith, who worked quite a bit with the artist formerly known as the artist formerly known as Prince. She's won a Juno for her work:
http://www.bass-musician-magazine.com/General/bass-musician-magazine-detail.asp?article-id=928522943

Believe me, there are many, many more women making their mark in the world of the bass. Of course, how many male bass players can you name, compared with male singers? That's why I started playing the bass...for the glory of it!

Jean,
I posted this a while ago but this was a little promo that my daughter's all girl band did for Converse. It's the forth one down. Just click on the 4th arrow down to play. Emma's Band Promo

i couldn't get the link to work steve love to see it!

Jennifer Batton plays guitar.
I saw her swapping licks with Jeff Beck several years ago.
She is a big deal in Europe.

Hello Jean,
I'm a guitarist. I'm new to JPF and will be getting more info on here later but here's a few links. Ruth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFbwcwtBkYM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ybxH0J2oyo
www.ruthwyand.com

Hi, Ruth. So glad you popped in. I hope you will have time to participate in the forums. I know you must be really busy. Really enjoyed watching you play on youtube. Wonderful singer too. You are way cool.

Wow, Ruth....I just listened to these yt videos. You are one remarkably talented musician! I definitely plan to check out more of your music.

Jean: I play the guitar, not anywhere near the skill level of the artists mentioned, though. I'm not sure if my (amateur) level is what you're looking for (or even in the ballpark at all ), but will add a couple of links here anyway.
Thanks, -Molly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oh9TwHAM1w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ6DUYVxaF4

Hi, Molly. Love your voice. My connection was kind of stop and start but in between I thought you were playing just fine.

I don't play like Ruth either. I used to play "fancier" when I was younger but have slowed down a lot nowadays. Carpal tunnel gets my fingers pretty numb but I can still accompany my choirs, so that's good enough, I guess. Lately, I have been wanting to raise the bar for myself, though.

Are you including the many, many female singer-songwriters who are also guitarists. Think Mary Chapin Carpenter, Emmylou Harris, and on down to the obscure names. Recently I heard a lady from the Tex-Mex border region named Bianca DeLeon, who is very good at both guitar and vocals. Or are you trying to concentrate more on female studio musicians?

My former hometown of Downers Grove Il spawned Muriel Anderson, who was won critical acclaim. She is probably one of the ones you are looking for. Wonder if she is mentioned anywhere on the Chicago chapter boards.

Ruth - nice job kissing the sky!

One of the most in demand session guitar, steel, fiddle players is named Wanda Vick. You might look her up.

MAB

Thanks Marc!
From the google search it showed that she has played on a lot of cd's/albums.
Very talented lady!

Thanks all for some great references. I was actually hoping some of our members would speak up and join the conversation.

Hi Jean & everyone,

I haven't had the chance to post here for months (computer/isp behaving badly but mostly just no time or not here at my home office).

Having started as very young child in the industry, this debate fascinates me.

In my experience Marc is right in saying that there has been a tendency for women to be pushed into vocalist roles. Sexism though I can sadly tell you in my experience is no red herring.

While I know many guys who really don't give a proverbial who's playing so long as it's good, there are still the persistent stereotypes/myths about women players being a turn on. I'd love a dollar for every time I've heard the old line, "yeah, she plays well for a girl" or variations to that effect.

Sadly the other stereotype/myth that seems linked with this is ageism. I have been told point blank that I'm too old to still be doing this. Mind you that was some years ago and I haven't let it stop me (I'm now 50) but the fact remains that I do get a lot of replies from festival organisers that say they're interested in younger performers when there's nothing mentioned about that in their application guidelines. Even more interesting when my male contemporaries are booked for same events.

Talking with other older female performers here in Australia (the few of us that still keep going) it seems that I'm not on my own and that really saddens me.

Oh, and in answer to your original post I'm an ARIA award winner, best known as a singer but play guitar well after a lot of practice and gigging. I also play percussion, bass and flute/sax. I'm putting a new cd out here at the end of the year and sadly, have to put off plans to come to the US til 2011 at least.

Take care all,

Debra

Hi, Debra! Thanks for responding. I feel your pain. I am glad you don't listen to that talk and that you are still in the business.

Do you get these types of responses from other women as well as men?

Here are another couple of examples of great female musicians. Karen Carpenter was a great drummer but seldom got the chance as she was pushed to the front with her great vocals. She preferred drums and this frustration at least in part caused her dieting and health probs.
Susie Quatro is a great bass player and has had many hits here in the UK.

That said whilst we can come up with a few female greats the males outnumber them by a considerable margin. This is probably down to the male macho thing and the old fashioned belief that women take second place. I have worked with a lot of very talented women and it is a shame that in all walks of life women struggle under immense pressure to compete in a male dominated workplace.

Cheers Jean,

Nice to be back here - it's a great forum! Unfortunately I have had some very ageist and stereotypical sexist responses from some women in my own age bracket. Fortunately I think the world is changing and the generation coming on would never put up with it!

I mentor and teach a number of young performers & writers (male & female) and they are universally horrified at some of the sexist things that I've seen &/or been subjected to. Hopefully they'll have the good sense to take gender out of the equation.

All power to them!

Jim, Suzi Quatro was an inspiration when I was a teenager but I remember being accused of being a lesbian because I liked her!!!

Hi Debra....I cannot think why...she is straight married with a couple of kids and during the seventies was a huge sex symbol and was the centrepiece of a lot of pubescent guys wet dreams. Just shows the ignorance and stupidity of your peers at the time.
That is the kind of attitude that prevents women from achieving all that they should.

It is true however that generally women have to have more drive, ambition and talent than men even just to stay behind them.

Pardon my sexist comment , but Suzi Quatro is still a centerpiece of my.. well, you get the idea. Anyway, she is still hot AND an incredible talent!

Well, I guess there is nothing wrong with finding people attractive and that occurs often from both sides of the coin. I think the difference is that people aren't surprised when an attractive man can play well but many are surprised when an attractive woman can play well.

Times have been changing and probably even more than the gender issue is the age factor as Debra pointed out. Or perhaps I should say gender plus age.

Sometimes however, older can equal cooler. When an elderly, white haired person who looks like they should be sitting in a rocking chair on the front porch gets up and rocks out, even the younger crowd thinks that is terrific.

Perhaps it's just the middle age that inspires the greater prejudice.

Might as well make mention here of one who proved she was no dumb blonde. I'm thinking of Dolly Parton, one of the best all-around female talents there is. At the guitar, the banjo, and also wrote many of her hit songs plus a few that became hits for other artists.

I think the relative lack of female guitar stars is just a numbers game. There are probably 10 little boys for every 1 girl who start playing guitar when they are kids, so the odds of a great guitar player coming out of that group of eleven is heavily in favor of the boys. Don't ask me why few little girls start playing the guitar but it probably has to do with ballet classes, cheerleading and the like.

Colin,

That is exactly right. The same can be said for why there are fewer female songwriters. Girls generally focus on other things long before they focus on playing or writing. They are more likely to being popular, hanging with friends or other educational things instead of guys, who traditionally are the "lonely guys at 14-16 who are sitting in their rooms writing the sad songs about not being able to get a date.
They are usually the unpopular guys at school, not being a jock or nessasarily good student. They tend to turn to music and songwriting at an earlier age.
Girls overall tend to focus on other things, which explains why there are fewer of them. Basically, girls are MUCH smarter than guys.

MAB

Debra,

By the way. I am 51. We are all being told that we are too old. The reason is purchasing blocks. Most younger people use their money on music and recreation than older people who have families and other needs for their money. So younger people are the ones who are more likley to support in mass younger acts.
Basic supply and demand, which has always been there. Again, it was never the over 40 people screaming for the Beatles, Stones, Sinatra, Elvis, when they started out. Popular music is always marketed for he young. Always has been.

MAB

After much band drama, one of our founding members, Rita Green, graciously joined our band again as our bassist. This woman is BAD ASS!!! IMO, no one can touch her. She's 48, but she's fit, has very nice, healthy hair, and can ROCK! www.myspace.com/jdjacksonband She was on the tracks "The Rover", "The Ocean" and "Them Changes". You should see her little fingers fly on "Toys in the Attic" by Aerosmith! My God, you just shake your head and go, "What the Hell whas THAT???" I've worked with at least 20 bass players in my time, and she just outdoes them all. I'm not biased because she's female...I'm CONVINCED because SHE ROCKS! She's a perfectionist and she plays with conviction.

Years ago, we tried to put an all-female band together. I tried this a few times with others as well. We never had a problem finding good drummers, keyboardists or bass players...the problem always came down to finding a competent lead guitar player. In Cincinnati, Ohio, they just didn't exist. This always perplexed me. We found plenty who could play rythm just fine, but no lead guitarists in sight. Is it because learning scales takes so much time? Is it because women's fingers are generally smaller and not as strong for playing a long time on a thick neck? I dunno, but after several attempts, I gave up. No Allison Robertsons around here. I guess all the good ones are in California.

Just visited your site to listen. She does rock! So do you by the way.

I started playing guitar about around 11 years old (taught myself), then started writing songs using existing chord progressions. Toured with my high school choir (singing my own folk songs) around 14 or 15. Had to give up guitar a few years ago, broke my heart, due to carpal tunnel. Then got a little Martin & took a few guitar lessons to learn to play with a pick - now I gig regularly, playing bluegrass & folk. Took me awhile to work up to being able to play for a couple hours, but the little Martin is a dream to play and I can even fingerpick the odd ballad as long as I don't push it. Just got myself a baritone ukulele for fun, also have a mandolin & have had a few lessons.

Hi, Viki! Thanks for checking in. Carpal tunnel got me too! There were times when the sensation passed pain and just became numb in the middle of performance. I had to look at my fingers to make sure they made it to the right frets.

Jean:

Just curious whether you ever took up playing guitar again after the carpal tunnel bout. Didn't realize this was a condition which affected such. It's usually associated with office workers as a result of repetitive typing motions. I had back pain at some of the jobs I held. But computer workstations are like shoes. Not every one is going to fit right.

Speaking of sexism and ageism, I believe today the latter is still more common than the former. We have tried to become a sex and age blind world, but it could never really work. After all, free love didn't work either.

When it comes to female songwriters, there has really been an abundance. There's Dolly Parton, Emmylou Harris, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Joni Mitchell, and many others that aren't household names. There's a folk music house not far from me which has been going for nearly four decades and feature mostly singer-songwriters, many of whom happen to be female.

It is not entirely true that artists get put out to pasture after forty. Before Billy Joel underwent a voice issue which will keep him out a while, he and Elton John had several joint performances, and I am sure they both sold out very well, and probably by people who remember growing up to them as opposed to those who are now in the teens and early twenties. And they are both around sixty now. So I don't believe we're as ageist as Marc was referring to in his post.

Hi, Brian. There really hasn't been an abundance of female guitarists in the past. Those you mentioned are exceptions. I know they are increasing and I was looking for those who do play to check in and let us know.

As far as ageism. Some of the icons who have already made it are supported but "unknowns" find it more difficult.

I still play but I have to use a capo and can't bar anymore. Playing individual notes are not the problem. Chords usually are.

I play every Sunday for church and during the school year for my music classes and school performances. At Christmas time when there are more rehearsals, I have to wear a brace in between the playing to keep the swelling down. But those are the days when I all morning and afternoon. I also type a lot.

I actually brought the injury on doing other things. However the injury could easily be brought on by both guitar and string players. The fingering hand is probably the one most likely to cause the injury because the wrist is bent and twisted.

Vicki,

I have severe carpal tunnel which affects me everytime I play. My hand goes to sleep periodically. Usually have to shake it and get the blood flow going again which helps. Most guitar players have it in some form or another. There is a surgury procedure but from most of the friends of mine who have had it it is usually not a lot better after having it done.
When talking about ageism and sexism I am speaking of new artists coming into the market. Elton John and Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, as well as the Beatles, Stones, Joe Cocker and other "Icons' of music have been around for ten, twenty and thirty years and were in their teens or late twenties when they became successful. If you study music history there are virtually no unknowns that became famous after thirty to thirty five.
Aside from someone like Rodney Dangerfield, who bacame a new career around 50, there are almost no examples of people who become famous initially after that. And for most of the people that do, they developed a large following before they became huge. Dangerfield was a very successful night club comic in Vegas and the Catskills before getting "rediscovered" by Johnny Carson in the 80's.
As far as New acts, being discovered, I do challenge you to find older artists breaking in. It may happen locally or regionally but very rarely nationally. I am talking about the mainstream artists. That is partially the reason for the success of someone like Susan Boyle, who's very success is based upon the fact that she is older. But this will be an abberation, not a rule.
If you think back to your youth, when you were 15-21, did you embrace and go crazy over people in their 40's or 50's? Of course not. And from the standpoint of music merchandisers and marketers, you always go where the densist concentration of certified PURCHASERS of music are. That is why the current acts like Miley Cyrus, and the Jonas Brothers are everywhere. Their fans actually purchase music and merchandise from those acts. Older people traditionally spend their money on bills, family, building businesses, etc. and do not purchase as much new music.
So yes, I am afraid that for the general public for NEW music is very ageist. That does not mean that older artists are not out there. They are. They are in every casino and club in the country. Last night I was in Mississippi where the main draws for two casinos were Kenny Rodgers and the Oak Ridge Boys. There are still careers.
The Eagles can command $250 a ticket because of a very loyal and very deep fan base. Classic Rock has even created a new crises. Record companies are having trouble breaking new artists because the older acts like Boston, KISS, REO Speedwagon, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc. are taking up the places for summer tours. But there is only so much of the entertainment pie. and there is a lot of competition of the dollar, which is why across the board, all music is down.

MAB

Marc,
I can vouch for that carpal tunnel surgery not being the cure-all.
I have known several folks who had the surgery and seemed to heal completely....(or at least enough to go back to work and not complain ) but it sure wasn't a success for me.
True it did take away the severe "night attacks" as I called them....where I would wake up in the night with my hand in severe pain...and have to clench and unclench my fist until the nerve re-awakened. (it's not a matter of blood flow...it's a matter of the nerve being squeezed or pinched )
I was always just a so-so guitarist before the surgery....and some of the things I never learned to do back then are certainly out of the question now. I just don't have the strength in my fingers anymore. barchords are extremely out of the question.

I've had a few folks through the years say that I'm a good guitarist (one called me a great picker even though I only strummed) and I honestly don't know who they were listening to. LOL
I can hold my own at an open mic...or a strictly folk venue....but unless I want to bring back the pain and numbness full throttle... I'll never be great. In fact I capo most of my songs...and when I play with a group sans capo....I go home with a sore left hand.
(and the Washington State Workman's comp board says I'm only 5% disabled in each hand.

but that's another rant I don't want to get into

Thank you, Jean! Well, interestingly enough, I might just be seeing my dream of a girl band come true. I met a female drummer recently who is very good, she knows Rita, and I'm attempting to get in touch with a guitar player who apparently is a great lead player. I just pitched the idea to Rita and she's thinking about it (she's a tough nut to crack!) I was talking to a club owner last night about the girl band thing, and he said, "If you can get this together, you're automatically booked here!" I know several other club owners who feel the same way...just because it's an all female band (so sexism can actually work to our advantage! LOL) We're all in our forties, but we've aged well and are healthy, so thankfully, our age isn't working against us either.

Lastly (but not leastly) I'm taking guitar lessons starting next Monday with none other than my good friend, Larry, who played in Darryl Worley's band for 10 years. So, it's kinda like taking guitar lessons from Eddie Van Halen for $25 a half hour! LOL I figured it wouldn't hurt to know something other than singing, and it would sure help bleed out those songs I write. I'm told squeezing a rubber ball 25 times a day with the right hand will help a lot. I know basic chords, but not enough to be a good guitar player.

I'll keep ya posted on the girl band thing. If this happens, it will be my dream come true. I'll have to post a recording of us.

LOL, Marc. I actually did. I loved Ed Ames. He was 40 and I was 16. My father had bought my mom a single of "My Cup Runneth Over With Love." As soon as I had enough babysitting money, I ran over to JC Penney's and bought his Album by the same name. I loved Harry Belafonte and my dad promised to take me to see him at the Greek Theater (Southern California). It ended up being canceled for some reason and so he took me to Melodyland in Anaheim to see the Kingston Trio. I was disappointed but I also liked the Kingston Trio, so it was cool. I loved Perry Como. I adored Nat King Cole. I also loved Kaye Starr. My dad had a Boogie Woogie album that I played constantly. He had albums of the great Broadway musicals. I sat for hours and listened to all these records, sitting right in front of the stereo. I didn't have to spend my babysitting money on these because obviously we had them at the house. Later when I was in my late twenties, I came across some Nat King Cole and Harry Belafonte albums and bought them. I also bought albums that my dad didn't have. The Beatles, Joni Mitchell, Simon and Garfunkle and Paul Simon's solo albums. I had the best of both worlds.


I took my teenage daughter and her friend to one of our Orange County JP Folks showcases. I believe she was 15 at the time. They were absolutely went wild over one of our eldest artists, CJ. (Passed away now.) The same daughter, about to be 23, just got turned onto live Jazz at a little restaurant/bar last night. She wants to go again and take me next time, lol.

It's all about exposure.

Getting back to the female aspect of the topic.

I do think that it will change and actually pick up speed. There are more female guitarist, bassists and drummers now (although not enough) but as the younger generation of girls witness this, they will become attracted to the profession and dare to dream of doing the same.

Thanks for checking in, Harriet. One more to the list!:D (We should probably start another thread about carpal tunnel, eh?)

Polly, that is so cool. I hope it all comes together for you.

For all you carpal tunnel sufferers, I found something that worked for me, vitamin B complex. I read some where that it was good for carpal tunnel, out of desperation I tried it and it worked. It may take a while to work and it may not work for everyone, but it's worth a try.

yes Everett...
it does work for some....
and so i tried it too....
unfortunately..... it started making me a bit nauseous
when it was only the numbness i was dealing with wearing a brace at night did the trick...
But once it moved on to being painful (and waking up in the night with strong pains....) nothing short of surgery was the answer...
(that...and taking 16 Advil a day ) After the State board dismissed me as slightly disabled and paid me a mini-compensation, and I had to quit my job (actually had them fire me so I could get unemployment) when i was all through with my orthopedic surgeon.... my family doctor suggested I take the same doses that his arthritic patients took. 800mil Motrin four times a day. which translated to 4 Advil, four times a day. (cheaper) and I did that for probably close to 10 years until we shut down the mushroom farm.
Still had days when I hurt more and wanted to take more meds...but I was already at the max amount.
I still have a little pain now and then.... but I know it's only when I spend too much time on the computer or needlework. If I keep things in moderation...it's under control

Jean,

Admit it, you just liked Ed Ames because he was Mingo on Daniel Boone! LOL! I remember all those guys, as well as the Ames brothers. We all grew up in that era and yes, we did like those older artists, but the real generational thing has always been for younger artists to be the primary music sellars in any generation. And actually Ed Ames was probably in his mid thirties when you were liking him. But I'm not going to argue your penchant for older men. You probably still have a picture of Marcus Welby on your wall, I am speaking mostly in generalities and speaking from an industry postition.
We have digressed off of this topic to old people and carpal tunnel, old people's diseases. Back to the subject, there are always spikes in certain things whenever a person is featured doing something. There was a spike in girl guitar players when Bonnie Rait made it look cool. Same with all female groups. Right now there will be more girls getting into songwriting and playing guitar because of Taylor Swift.
Maybe you should start your own magazine, "Babe's and their Axes!" YOu could have your spotlights featrue, articles about what picks they use to match their bras or whatever. YOu may have found your own niche. Congratulations.

MAB

There actually was(I use past tense because I don't know if they are still active)an actual all-female group that called themselves Babes with Axes. They were based in Eugene, OR and seldom toured, but one time did make an appearance in Chicago and went to see them. I believe each of them had solo careers as well. One of the members was Laura Kemp, but can't recall the other two right now. I'm sure you can find out somewhere on the web per Google.

And I'm sure there will continue to be more female guitarist just as there are now so many more female doctors, lawyers, etc. JFK had a female doctor when there will still very few of them.

I just remembered two places you might look.

There are two groups of women "Chicks with Picks" and Girls With Guitars" which are Nashille based, but the second one has multiple shows and organizations nationawide. they are in California, Minnessota, Wisconsin and other places. You can check them out at www.girlswithguitars.com

MAB

Actually guys, I was looking for the women that play here.

Jean,

I think that Girls with guitars has a chapter out there as well. They are groups in different towns that do regular shows in theaters. They have a web site and are always doing something. at least they were a couple of years ago. I was in Orange County a couple of years back and was working with some woman who had played a couple of shows out there.


MAB

I meant here at JPF, sorry.

"Girls with Guitars" was also a hit song written by Mary Chapin Carpeter, and was a big hit for Wynonna Judd.