JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum "All Summer Long" Kid Rock copyright issues

This song uses riffs and references from Werewolves of London and Sweet Home Alabama extensively.

Would anyone care to address the permissions required to make such a song a hit?

HIDee Amigo!

He prolly hadda do like Weird Al Yankovich...give a percentage of each sale to the Other Writers he "lifted-from". On "Eat It" you'll see MJ and WA as Co-Writers in The Credits..so it was a (probably) 50-50 deal. OR..KR might've gotten off WAY-cheaper if he purchased "Sampling Rights" from each of the Publishers-Involved. Some are as cheap as $1K...depending on The Length of the Samples Involved.

Either Way..KR made a Bundle off the Song/Got LOTS of Publicity from "Lifting" what he did, which Helped SELL the Song, too!

To My Old Ears, it wasn't THAT Original a Song...but was a Good Time Let's Party Number/Just Fine for These Troubled Times..& the Added-Nostalgia Factor, sort of a "Plus". WAS weird to hear KR on the Country Stations...but "Crossover" always did have a nice Ring To It...heh!

Best Wishes/Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

Hey guys,

All the writers, Zevon, Rossington, Van Zant, etc. are all listed as co-writers. There were a few reasons behind it. first of all Familiarity. If you use something that is well known, you are adding the existing song's popularity to your own. Two, record sales. Skynyrd and Zevon's estate make money off having songs back in the public eye. Number three, Kid Rock (who I don't like at all) has a repore with these guys personally. they have done shows together, and he credits them with being an influence on him. So it is as much of a "homage" as anything. It also is what the song is about, summer time, Skynyrd, etc.But I can assure you, he got permission first.
Kid Rock is very smart and did this the right way. Even though I don't like it personally, I have to give him credit. The other thing is the propensity for rap acts, (which Kid Rock has been on the edge of) to sample entire tracks from other music and pay nothing until someone sues them, he actually got a step ahead of the issue.

MAB

PS: The Weird Al compostions are all paid as a percentage of sales. It is a licensing agreement. The only one he had trouble with was Coolio, who didn't want him to do the song "Living in an Amish Paradise" but he was paid so there was nothing he could do.

MAB

Marc- Just out of my own curiosity- I heard about all the problems with that but how could Weird Al have done "Amish Paradise" without Coolio's permission in the first place. Or, did Coolio agree at first and then just didn't like the way it turned out...?

vicki

Vicki,

Parodies are protected by law. I'm not a lawyer, but there are some areas where they can be stopped. If, for example, they go too far and taint the original to the point where it affects the original's value. Generally, though, a parody is fair game, but it has to be paid for similarly to cowriting. Kid Rock's song was not a parody but a derivative. Again, of course, IANAL. If you are looking to write and release a parody, get legal advice.

Mike

Thanks MIke...no- parodies aren't my thing I just wondered how that could occur. It doesn't seem fair that the original artist put so much blood, sweat and tears into something and making it their own and then someone just has a right to basicaly screw it all up. Thanks for the answer.

Take care, vicki

Vicki,

My legal and rap knowledge are hopelessly lacking. Much of what I get is often from panel discussions or private behind the scenes conversations from people in the industry. The Weird Al/Coolio thing came up about four or five years ago and they had a tete a tete in the press. Coolio was really an ass about it and was talking about suing this or that, and then it was pointed out I belive by his attorney that he had been inbroiled in an earlier controversy where he sampled someone else's work against their will and it was setteled out of court. So it was the case of the tables being turned.
Somebody will probably come in with a better knowledge of these things than me and have a different take on it, or I might be wrong, I don't think so because this dirivitive, parody, sampling issue has been back and forth for quite some time. The rap community has been pretty ruthless when it has been with rules and etticates. They just kind of do what they want and leave it up to the offended parties to deal with it. Two friends of mine had a Bobby Womack song from 73' sambled by Snoop Dog and went through several years to be paid for it.
At the end of the day, when money is involved it can get weird, and sometimes people decide getting paid is better than standing on principal and going through legal challenges that never seem to be settled.
I have another friend stage named Cletus T. Judd, who did nothing but parodies of hit country songs. What he did was write the parodies with the actual writers of the original songs. They were paid for both times.
For anything legal, you are going to find all kinds of in's and out's, whereas, therefore's, decisions that make your head spin all the time. And there is ALWAYS some weirdness or things that break rules.
All you can do is put it out there, and see what happens.

MAB

Considering Coolio ripped off a Stevie Wonder song, the point is moot! {The man has some NERVE,I'll give him THAT!}

Marc, I could't agree with you more about Kid Rock!
I'm often at odds with my redneck friends over this, but WHY is this guy even popular? Has he ever written a song with an OUNCE of originality? He must be fun to party with or something. He went to Johnny Cash's funeral as a guest of Hank Jr, and SPOKE at the service even though he admitted he HAD NEVER MET JOHNNY!

The guy is the Forrest Gump of the music world!
I especially like how he rhymes the word "things" with the word "THINGS" on "All Summer Long"! That's my rant, I feel better now!

this subject covered in BMI article-from this months BMI E-Bulletin

by Gary Roth-of SONGWRITER 101.COM

heres the link to what he says about it all

http://songwriter101.com/articles/2000_0_6_0_M/

Tom

Bob,

That is what it was, the Stevie Wonder thing. I couldn't remember what it was but knew he had done onto others before he had it done unto him.

Tom, I read the article by Gary but didn't see anything on the Kid Rock thing. Did I miss something?

MAB

Good information here....I didn't know that all the writers were included on All Summer Long.

I don't care for Kid Rock or the ripoff factor but I must say the combination of the riffs, etc. makes for a song that stands out as a foot tapper.

no Marc-you didnt miss anything......I didnt properly explain the article I linked to...I should have said it was copyright overall-not the Kid Rock matter per se....

my mistake-sorry

Tom

Thanks Tom,

How are you?

Good to see you posting.

MAB

am fine thanks Marc

got stuff I am sending to licensing catalogs-Pump Audio and 1000tracks.com.......and worktapes that will someday become finished demos.........and lyrics that will someday become worktapes-so my life always resembles a cat chasing its tail......always enjoy your knowledgeable posts......look forward to finally meeting you sometime....have you met Jeremy James of Murfeesboro?......he is my newest co-writer......I think I now have 8 co-writers on various things.....so theres always something cookin............gonna be a rainy weekend here in the 'ville.........wah sniff whine...catch ya later buddy

Tom

The song in question is Stevie Wonder "Pastime Paradise" ...Coolio has some serious AUDACITY claiming someone ripped HIM off!

Hey guys-thanks for all the info.

Bob-I wasn't necessarily talking about Coolio's situation...I don't know much about him or rap...other than now whats been discussed in this thread. I just wondered about parodies in general.

Thanks-vicki

Fair Use is a much smaller concept that most people think - or choose to think. I suspect that much of what is commonly referrred to as fair use is simply the fact that some get away with it because the costs of pursing a case for infringement are so high.

Tom

Vicki,

It is always said that Imitaion is the sincerest form of flattery. I did a songwriters camp in Lake Tahoe a few years ago with about 35 people, 18 writers and their significant others. We had a weekend, where I broke everybody into small groups and they wrote. I mentored each group. Was a LOT of fun. Then, we all had a night of guitar pulls. etc. It was my birthday and all of the groups had written a parody to one of my songs. It was really funny! I loved it. I can't understand why anhybody would object to that. Some people just take themselves too seriously.
If you are writing songs to demonstrate a point of view or for your own enjoyment, etc. you should be able to do that. I was in a round two nights ago with hit writer Karen Staley. (Hit songs by Faith Hill, "Hey Baby Let's go to Vegas" and Tracy Bird's "Keeper of the Stars") who did a parody herself of Hank Williams Jr.s "Family Tradition, called "Thyroid Condition" about her latest weight gain. Very funny. So we all do it.
It is when you are releasing things commercially and if it interfears with sales of existing product (how Weird Al could inhibit Coolio's sales are beyond me) that things get called into question. As I said, Cletus T Judd, used to write his parodies with the writers of the original hits.

Tom, I don't think I have met your co-writer although I did a couple of mentoring sessions with some kids in the MTSU songwritig program. There is something to test your patience.
Hope to see you around town.

MAB

the old rule, once a song has been cut by an artist , it then becomes fair game to be cut by anyone. of course, credits must be given and royalties paid but they really can't stop you from cutting the song if you do it legally. i live in Jacksonville and know some of the Skynyrd family people. there are like 11 writers listed on Kid Rock's released version of "All Summer Long"...ain't any of them pissed when they go the mailbox and there's a check in there. Kid paid his dues for awhile, figured the game out, sells out concerts, sells records...am i a fan...not really, do i respect his accomplishments, yep...the guy i know who is a writer on the Sweet Home copyrights told me that song still to this day pays his mortgage alot of months. anyway, once it's cut, it's fair game...if it ain't been cut yet you can deny permission to do so as the writer. reminds me of a story Walt Aldridge tells...a young artist trying to break in wanted to cut one of his songs, he said NO..never heard of her, tell her NO...it was LeAnn Rhimes...

Moker,

That is exactly right. And while I am no fan of Kid Rock, I do appreciate he did add all those writers on that one. he did the right thing.
I had an artists manager approach me about a song when I first moved to town. Told him I was hanging on the song for myself as an artist. The guy was Bob Doyle. The guy he wanted to record it was Garth Brooks. yeah, we all make some pretty dumb decisions.
On this new project I am on, Frankie Ballard, we already have turned down a cut on Garth Brooks and Jake Owen.I hope we are making the right decision. You just never know and when other people are invovled you are not the final say.

MAB

Isn't that what compulsory licensing is all about? Doing the cover and then notifying the writer, INFORMING them that you're doing the song...and making sure to send them their royalties. There's not much they can do about it, unless you somehow slander or degrade the original version, to a point that could be detrimental to the original writer(s). As long as you tell them and PAY THEM, you can release the song.

In response to MJ, if I ever get lucky enough to have anything I have written recorded(have only one demo so far) I doubt if I ever would deny someone a chance to cut it. The story of the writer who turned down LeAnn Rimes reminds me so much of the story of when Decca records thumbed their noses at a particular band because they felt at the time that guitar-based music was on its way out. The band: The Beatles.

beechnut, i think that turning down the Beatles as a Marquis act for your label would now be considered one of the biggest boneheaded blumders in industry history...of course that would have required foresight, which is a great way to go...hindsight, that's always 20/20, but in this case, has a very bad sting...thx for the comments...be well...mj