JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum Industry Clarifications/MAB

Hello,

MAB here. I have started this particular thread to clairify some of my opinions and commentary and to stop walking so much on threads that are started by others. That is not my intentions. Also, it is not my attention to use these threads to advertise my business. I do have services that affect songwriters and anyone interested in those can contact me personally or visit my web site for that information. Again, that is not why I am here.

I am here to attempt to be an ambassador for Nashville, a representative of certain aspects of the music industry, and an advocate for songwriters everywhere. That is why I am on these pages.
The Nashville I have been a part of for 20 years is a very
vibrant community, full of different types of music and forms of expression, that has many differnt aspects and is a wonderful place to live or to visit. For a songwriter I call it "filling up the well of the soul." And even for those who never set foot in the town, I would hope that myself and others might bring a bit of the positive things that many of us have seen and experience on a regular basis.

But as any business endevor, there have been many negative experiences. There always are when dreams and hopes are involved.
And unfortunately there are always people ready willing and able to separate someone from their money. I would like to be able to dispel some myths and missed opportunities, explain things from another point of view and hopefully fill in some blanks you might have in your musical journey.
Along the way, hopefully I can help point you to some places that can help you or some services that might work for you. And if mine get tossed into the mix, the more the better. But that is NOT my primary reason to be here.

There are many things writers do that can create less than positive experiences for them and their songs.
Writing songs with an overused or dated subject matter. using overused cliche's, titles, rhymes,or point of views can affect them. Using negative subject matter in a world already overwhelmed with negatives can be a very hard sell.

Having songs recorded in less than industry standards, getting into studio situations that might not be mutually beneficial, wrong singers for the wrong song, spending too much money, are all problems we have ALL run into, amatures and professionals alike.

Doing workshops or seminars that might not have the focus a writer is looking for, having educational opportunities that might not give optimum effect. And of course there are the unscrupulous people that promise much and deliver little and literally pick pockets along the way.

This is a business that takes focus, and paying attention to each step. Being very careful with your money and time. That is what this is about.

I am here to try and provide a point of view. It is far from the only one, or hardly an athourity on anything. Just a guy who has been doing this for a while, had some successes and a lot of failures and has probably made the mistakes you might make long before you make them. Learn from other people who have had their heads kicked in before you have yours kicked in.

I thank you for the opportunity to speak to you. If I can help I will. If you need me, ask away. And if other professionals or the industry mentors here have some things to add,please do so.

MAB

Thanks for your insights Marc, it's a pleasure to have you hangin' out with us little people ! !

Marc,
I just remembered something I had heard maybe about Major Labels. Maybe you can confirm or expell it.

I have heard that No Albums can be released that don't have Union Musicians on the production or something to that effect. At least with Major Labels. Be curious to hear if that is true.

Ray,

I would say that is probably true since one thing you do is have the same players on all the records. for good or bad, there has always been an "A" Team in music. In Nashville that is what it is called, the Superpickers" etc. Motown was the "Funk Brothers" (STanding in the Shadows of Motown! RENT THAT!)in LA it was "THE WRECKING CREW".
The reasons is that in addition of always being MONSTER players, they become the heartbeat, always adding "just the right touches on any record, always being interesting and unique inside the same framework" and of course, they have dedicated themselves to just that and nothing else.
The way it works is that groups of people come to town about the same time. most of the guys right now moved around 1985-93. One starts integrating in, say like Tony Brown, who was a keyboard player. He came from Elvis's band, and had groups of players he played with and hung out with. Then as players start to retire, lose chops, or health issues, they start filling in a little at a time then more and more as time goes on.
Tony becomes a producer and label head (MCA records) and the reputation grows. Other producers and label want "Those pickers." then you have the same people over and over. These are always in the Union because that is what you do as a player. Just makes it less friction. and you find the players want those gigs.
Most players who are not union join as they get more and more work. This is all about networking. Then new people come and go.
Before you get to a major project you generally join because that is the way to get the best money. And as ANTI union as I am (I had nothing but trouble as a member, but I didn't really do Union stuff, i was more songwriter than player) they do negotiate good contracts and uphold things in major television, health issues, etc.
So that is probably why most of them are Union members. I can't imagine at the level anyone who wouldn't be. At some points in everyone's career, you have to stand up, pay whatever fees apply and then move on. I just joined the Chamber of Commerce and already am starting to get business calls hitting me up for money. Cost of doing business I guess.

MAB

Terrific thread, Marc, you're a fine resource for the music community.

Ray,

The American Federation of Musicians has a collective bargaining agreement with all of the major labels and some of the indies. Those labels also use producers who are "signatories" of the union.

Thanks Mike,

I want all of them here to get the various perspectives of the industry.

Ray, if you ask a question, you usually have someone who knows the answer. I also want to be very clear about my Union affiliation.

I was a member from 1990 to about 1997. I resigned because I really was never a Union type person. I did not perform on television shows, did not do recording or anything as a musician. I did vocal demos, but most of those were smaller affairs. And almost all were on my own songs.

I did have a contentious relationship because of their principals that AFM members should not play clubs for a "for the door" amount, which is what almost all clubs in Nashville are, particularly songwriter clubs. I was a songwriter, doing my own songs, but was fined several times for doing just that at the Bluebird and Douglas Corner. Much of that was resolved after my leaving, some of it having to do with me. By laws are different now.

But the new president, Dave Pomeroy, is a very good friend and I do respect AFM representatives very much for what they do for their members. We do pay Union rates on sessions and make sure all contracts and scales, meet Union compliance.

I am personally not a member. And I do not want to disparage their efforts or to speak to issues I am not personally knowlageble on.


MAB

Dave's a great guy and an amazing bass player. Folks should check him out:

http://www.davepomeroy.com/

He's bringing the Nashville Chapter of the Musician's Union into the 21st century.

Hi Marc,

Butting in here on your thread, sorry! (well, not really)

Point me to the artist who is accepting outside material please!
(kidding, well, unless of course you know of one, then ummm, it'll just be between us =)

Seriously, I just thought I'd chime in and say I'm glad you mentioned the wrong singer for the right song. It's importnat to know what your song should sound like, who you'd like to pitch to, and to get that sound, the first time, not after spending the same money on the same demo, so people need to know they can ask for vocal samples (from most companies) and it's ok to check out other places as well.

Also, how important it is to go through what is written and get real opinions before paying the money. I;d prefer to have a g/v on everything before I spend more, just to be certain I'm happy with my melody and lyric before I pay for production.

I do want to make a request though...when you do your next seminar, please mention the importance of rewriting if necessary. It's not always, but so many people get stuck on what they've written and refuse to see that it could be better if they'd give it a little time (yeah, I'm guilty, but improving every song) as well as getting real feedback. Being specific about the feedback they are looking for, also.

Thanks for popping in here and giving some of us the chance to pick your brain. (yes, an easy jab could be inserted here, free of charge, but it'd be cliche')

Caroline,

I use the line from my friend Ralph Murphy, "great songs are re-written, not written." One of the central elements of co-writing is so how you get outside yourself. It begans the process from the outset of looking at your songs from a variety.
Most writing appointments in Nashville are booked in twos.
One to start or develop the idea, the other to finish it. So yes, we pretty much emphasize it a lot. The steps are get it pretty much finished, get it reviewed, step by step on the recording process, put it up against other songs you write, get full demos on the best. Repeat process.

MAB

I understand that these session players get paid a very generous amount so that they will be on call when ever the major labels want them. In other words, the pay they will get will entice them to drop any other work they are doing to be available for the major label work. In the meantime, while there are no major recordings taking place, do these same session players play for demo studios or for indie recordings at a vastly lower rate, sort of moonlighting?

Hey Everett,

Just ask Sub, he'll give you the real deal. You take the work where it is. Sometimes great paying, sometimes not. It's not a great life for a studio muso.

cheers, niteshift

Everett, the triple A players in Nashville, guys like Brent Mason, who play on the majority of hits you hear, keep very busy. They have secretaries or secretarial services that organize their calenders. They do not do demos, as demos pay at a much lower rate. They will, however do masters. If they are not booked on major label sessions they will play for union scale, that's $380.02 for a three hour session for full master, or $196.50 per 3 hour session for a limited pressing (no more than 10,000 copies pressed to be sold). If they are the bandleader, they get double that scale. When I've recorded with Brent Mason, he was bandleader.

Sessions for major artists are booked way in advance because the artists themselves are busy performing, so scheduling is not a problem. A triple A session player, like Brent, can make triple scale with a major artist, that's over $350 an hour, double for the leader. Indie artists and labels who hire triple A players also schedule far in advance and will book the session around the player's schedule.

The footsoldier session player gets roughly $60 a song for limited pressing masters. Non union players get about the same. The big difference with union and non union players is with the demo. A non union player gets from $35 to $60 for experienced session players, newbies will go down as low as free A union player counts the time, not the songs, for demos. The scale for demos is $156 for a three hour session. With good charts, a good crew of musicians can do ten to fifteen songs in a three hour session. So, generally speaking, a good crew of union players may record demos for much less than non-union players.

Those union prices also get an additional 11% toward the musicians' pension fund and $22.00 per player per session toward health and welfare. I know guys collecting the pension and guys who have gotten health benefits, one good friend of mine got a nice check after the untimely death of his wife, so these are important things for a musician. Non union players do not get benefits like these unless they have saved money and gotten insurance on their own, most, I'm sure, have not.

Hope that helps.

Mike

See, ask a question, get the right answer. Remember, you are talking to a guy who had to leave the union for breaking the rules.

MAB

Hey Well,
Another thing I have heard or has been posted by people from time to time is if you decide to record someone's songs either well known releases that have been released before you need to produce a mechanical license for the Studio before you can record. On it's face it seems bogus because you may not release the song or at the time you don't know how many you will press.

A little story you might get a chuckle out of. I was in Nashville the day after Patsy Cline and the others were killed in that plane crash. I was trying to get some songs heard.

The night before I had written a song in the Motel and wanted to put it on tape so I could play it for a Publisher.

I went into a little "Hole in the Wall" studio to record the song. The guy asked me if I belonged to the Musician's Union. He said I couldn't play my Guitar if I didn't belong. My being in the Navy at the time I had some "Choice" words I could have used but didn't. And he could have made a few dollars but he didn't. I went back to Texas where I was stationed and had a band I knew record the song for me. Such is life no?

Mike, so you are saying that the session players in a three hour session could record at least ten songs($15.60 per song) while other players get $60.00 per song. It would seem to me that these demo studios would be better off getting the top unionized players, lower cost per song and better sound, they could make more profit or pass the saving on to the customer.(yea, like that is going to happen)

In most things in life you are better off paying a pro than an amateur. The pro knows what he is doing and usually has the skills to do a faster and better job. Even at a higher price, it might work out cheaper.

Great thread Marc. Good to see some well informed music industry knowledge. Always interesting to songwriters and musicians!

Glad to see you are still hangin around. Thought you had to gets to scootin.

John

Hi Marc.... Afternoon!!

Ballads. I write both childrens and adult genre' (other than kids) songs... The adult genres I write...the majority are ballads or adult contemporary and many veins of Christian songs. I'm still learning genres..and many times I'm really not sure what I've written. But I write both for the satisfaction it gives...and I'm always trying to improve and not overlook opportunities.

I've read and have appreciated your comments on country ballads...slower songs etc.. Is your comment on slower songs/
Ballads...straight across the other genres....or do you see exceptions where a slower song might go through a door...
from an outside writer.

If I'm not clear...let me know.

Very best to you this afternoon...
and thank you....

Kaley

Kaley,

Ballads represent 70% of what is written and 7% of what is recorded and about 2% of what is a hit. It is not that they are not good,many are. They are just up against so much competition for attention. Think for a second of your life. What do you do from the beginning of each day? How much time do you have to sit around, absorb some song from beginning to end that almost you have to stop everything to listen to it?
Think of a child's perspective. How many kids over the age of about 5 are going to respond to a ballad? I have certainly seen so many of those 3-8 year olds, just sitting there absorbing the song, right? Are you OUT of your mind? They don't sit still for anything. In childrens music, at nap time or bed time, they might be still for a few seconds, other than that it is hyperactivity, all the time. Do your self a favor, go perform for a children's school some time. Try the ballads there. After you stop crying from embarrisment at being ignored and ridiculed, then re-think your music.
What you have to do is "get outside of your self" and think about what your audience is going through, what they want to hear. Most people, while they do listen to some of the "power ballads" on the radio, most of those are written with HUGE choruses, and while being slower than up tempo, are actually mid tempo.
I am going to a party today at Doak Turner's house. There will be between 65 and 100 writers there. Each one playing 2-4 songs in four different rooms. That will be between 150-200 songs in a four hour period. 70% of them will be ballads. That is about 125 to 140 songs. How many would you sit through?

Average writers night: 30 writers, 90 songs in four hours.
75 ballads.
Average pitch per project: 3000 songs.
Ballads: 2700
Average ballads cut per project: 2

You tell me how many you think will slip through?

MAB

Guys,

Due to my increased workload, I am focusing most of my efforts on these pages. So if you have questions, ask away. I will try to respond. As always, you can contact me personally at
MBarne4908@aol.com or visit my web site, www.marcalanbarnette.com

MAB

Hi All,
It is pretty well known that most people like mid to uptempo songs. I do also. When you listen to a song you want to escape from reality for a couple of minutes, not be reminded of it. It is considerbly more difficult to write a good uptempo song than a ballad. So if you write Ballads try to write in a lighter vein, also somewhat difficult.

Well folks I took a chance yesterday. I sent some songs for LeAnn Rimes. Two uptempo and one midtempo song. Maybe they will get thru s Curb Records don't accept unsoliciated material. They have been looking for 3 months so appearently don't have what they need yet. Geronomo!

I think the most satisfying thing to DO as a songwriter is to dig in and write a song that carries deep meaning for you.

But that doesn't have the same appeal to a listener.

How often do we say "Hey, let's go out and hear a band that plays only deeply meaningful, introspective and heartwrenching songs!"

I am wrestling seriously with this whole concept right now...I keep shooting for the joy, but still coming up with lots of the other stuff. I agree with Ray, it's harder to write a positive song.

Marc...

Thank you for taking the time to answer and be here!

If I would walk into a kindergarten class....and perform a slow ballad, you are absolutely right...I would have a few loose screws in my wee noggin...and I would never try that. ANY slow song that I have in the Children's genre that is not specifically a lullaby...is aimed more toward either Printed Music....or....Film or theme type music for a production.
I have a much easier time writing mid tempo and faster children's songs..

I don't believe I asked my question clearly, sorry...but I am understanding....If you're going to try to
write a commercial ballad...that chorus had better be a power ballad, with a big soaring chorus.. and more of a mid-tempo.
I know I'm not there yet ...but that is the style I love to try to write.
********
Average writers night: 30 writers, 90 songs in four hours.
75 ballads.
Average pitch per project: 3000 songs.
Ballads: 2700
Average ballads cut per project: 2

*****
Following you ....Realistically very tough......!!!....

Thanks for all the information......
Marc !!...
Best..
Kaley

Kaley and all,

The majority of songs that are "ballads" on the radio are in the mid tempo range. A few:

I've Had Moments
Wind Beneath My Wings
Give me Wings
Yesterday
Don't Let The Chain of Love End With You
Drift Away

There are many of them. They have movement and usually a very identifiable hook or melody. Usually a very singable chorus.The most important aspect of them is the way the chorus "Lifts up" the entire song.
That is what determines a "ballad" which is a generally slow, plodding song, and separates it from a "Power ballad" which is a powerful chorus, medium in tempo, yet has forward movement.

MAB

Great intel, Marc, thanks for posting such detailed and knowledgeable responses.

And remember, "Less is More"!

Just heard your song Marc! (Less is More). Great chorus! Very memorable. Loved the video as well. Looks like a great bunch or people. Good atmosphere at that place too.

Just wanted to say great job on that song,,,. Ok, carry on with the topic.
John

Thank you john. Very nice of you.

I am actually sitting here with Allen Shervelle, who I wrote that song with. Great to hear from you. Thanks for letting me be a part.

MAB

Well then, tell Allen good job on the writing, and for "allowing" you to sing it!

I have a funny story of Bud's amd my trip to Nashville back in '92.

If we get to it sometime, you might get a kick out of it. The thing is, we also have our trip on video, so our naive and funny moments are a good source of family and friends laughter. Mine too, "now".

John

Hi Marc,

I just watched your video "Less is More" here....

Less is More

Excellent in all respects.

A question for you. I recently read that country music radio targets the younger female audience that listens during the drive to work. Would you agree with this statement?

Colin,

ABSOLUTLEY. Women, between the ages of 18 and 45 make up 70 per cent of our audience. They buy the majority of CD's T-shirts, hats, concert tickets, make the plans for dinner, baby sitters, etc. To make music happen. The younger, the more disposable income they have, but they are the heart and soul of the industry, and again, always have been.
Do you remember those crazy women screaming their butts off in every Beatles concert and now on DVD and video? While there were the odd idiot 14 year old guy, but you just don't get up there and scream and go nuts if you are a guy. You are too cool.
Now look at the Kenny Chesney/Keith Urban videos. See some similarities? The more things change.

MAB

Marc,

Isn't it more specifically woman in the car at drive times?

Kathy,

That is the most popular point of view. And it is correct. In a woman's life, they are going to school,getting kids to school, going to work their five jobs, getting kids to piano lessons, soccer practice, cooking dinner, bringing home the bacon, frying it up in the pan. Hitting the man in the head with the pan, arranging the funeral, getting him in the ground, collecting the insurance, getting her kids to the mother's, taking her ten year younger boyfriend to Rio on vacation, playing the Lottery, getting their own reality television show, finding their boyfriend with another woman, hitting him in the head with a pan, collecting the insurance, buying a mansion, getting a 25 year old pool boy, having a passionate affair. Finding him in bed with another man. Hitting them both in the head with a pan, having a show trial that ends up on Nancy Grace for six months, becomes a poster woman for women who hit men in the heads with frying pans, writes a number one selling book, goes on Oprah, buys another mansion in France, meets a very old millionaire, hits him in the head with a pan, collects the insurance, builds a perfume empire, buys a record label, rules the world, have her children become Doctors and lawyers, retires. It is a very busy world.
So in the car is one of the only places they can listen to music to get away from the screaming kids that they would like to hit in the head with a frying pan.

So yes, that is the target audience.

MAB

Marc, that sounds like a song idea!

Mike,

My life is a song idea.

MAB

Mike,

You know, we should mention Doak's third Sunday party to every one here.

MAB

I object to the whole frying pan thing, that's so stereotypical! Some of us actually would be much more creative, and leave less evidence!! Come on, things have changed, man!!! Let's give the girl some credit, she'd run the bastards down, in his own truck, leaving behind his girlfriends earings. And why does eveyone think a woman wants a younger man, and a pool boy at that. I mean, please, a man who walks around in a speedo isn't passionate about anything, he's just too friggin lazy to get dressed!
Now, onto the whole "car escape" YES!!! That's what it's all about, drive time, just long enough to have loud music blaring, but in a school zone so J. Giles doesn't earn you a 30 over the limit ticket.
Drive time, that's what you want, if you'd listen to it during drive time, someone else might, too!

I have NEVER taken a swing with a frying pan but I have with a wooden spoon.....LOL

Good call, Marc.

Folks, for anyone planning a trip to Nashville, (like maybe Nomad), try to get here on the third Sunday of the month. At 3pm, Doak Turner hosts a songwriter networking party at his house. There are 50 to 100 songwriters splitting up into three or more groups (one is the Marc group...but bring your earplugs there, Marc takes his turn singing and he sings LOUD!). It's like a cross between a three ring circus and a writer's night with food. It's a great place to network.

If you're going to be here on a third Sunday, contact Marc, and he'll get you directions.

I'm not opposed to doin' the wimmin's work.

Caroline,

I apologize, you are absolutly correct. I have a few marks (Pun intended) on my head, from several ex-wives and I do recall they had many other implements. Toasters, spoons, bricks, my guitars, even got hit by a cat once. There is no end to the creative uses a woman can use when she sets her mind to it.
As a matter of fact, at their convention in Vegas once a year, my ex-wives will usually feature a key note speaker. I remember two years ago, Helga, number 42, had her interpreter with her (East German, I was a mail order bride) and related that her first two husbands had died of rat poisoning. But she had said that number thee (the one before me) had died of head trauma. He had developed a taste for Rat poison. I don't remember much after that, but when you get 63 women in one banquet room for two days, the tales they can tell. A very inventive lot, those girls.

MAB

Marc............when it comes to a writers catalogue. How many songs should one have completed and ready to pitch before jumping into the fray.........if that even applies.

Steve

oooh oooh ooohhhh....I think I can answer that one Steve.....

You are networking and creating your songs as you go, so there isn't a "how many songs" you bring its are you writing with someone that has an outlet for your songs and your bringing something to the table. That being said I know that it isn't unheard of to have about 300 or so songs in a catalog before you see something happening...but again each new song you create may be more amazing then the ones in your catalog...

Thanks Kathy. It will probably be some time before I reach 300. And I'm not really worried about that. I was just curious. I'm old enough to be comfortable being known as a "one hit wonder" :-) I just wondered if people would take you seriously if you didn't have a ton of songs ready. Thanks

Steve

Hey Marc, one thing that seems to stay the same in Nashville is that it keeps changing. Today is not like the Garth days, and those days weren't like the George Jones days, and on and on.

Are there any trends you've been predicting around the corner? Any thoughts on what might be hot in Nashville a couple years from now?

Wow,

My new little JPF "Flock, finally getting out of this silliness of personal distortion enough to ask some good questions. Thanks. First of all, I am here to help you guys. I believe if we build stronger communties we all do better. I make a living helping people the best I can. The advice I offer you are suggestions and the reason I wanted to come here was to not feel like I am being verbose or taking over a thread that I did not start. So thank you for coming here.I check in quite often and do post although I would much rather have questions like this. If you have them please post them and I can get a better idea of what to tell you to help you. This is not a one size fits all business.

Steven,
While I am the king of having a LOT of catalogue, I have that opinion for a different reason than just numbers. It is practical application. The more you do something, the better you are at it. Like adding weight in the gym. And each song is what I like to term as "Planting musical seeds." You see, with every person you write with,that increases your amount of friends. With more friends, you have more opportunities to be around, do writers nights, increase your knowledge, write different types of songs, different styles, grooves subject matter. also with each person you write with, gives you the opportunity to expand your "circle of friends" which lead you to better songs, better access, etc. You get the picture.

Publishers want several things:

#1 Self motivated.
Someone that "plays well with others" and writes well with several people. Writing with other writers means you know the language of Nashville, and multiple pitching teams mean more opportunities for songs.

#2 Having varied styles.
Publishers and pluggers study "pitch sheets" tip sheets and insider info from their own sources. Every night in every writers night and bar there is someone coming from pitch meetings all day in studios and saying "They are looking for one more song on "Tim McGraw." That is where many pitches come from. Last minute. If you want to know some inner logic on pitching, ask that.Varied styles hit the target more often than one type of songs.

#3 radio ready songs.
While the dream of us all is to have a publisher pay for demos and save us all, the reality is having a song ready to go beats people who don't have them ready. And you are up against the best. So you better play the game that they do. Take away the negatives, make your songs sound like the radio and you double and triple your chances.

#4 Understanding of the industry.
Someone that is trying to fit a "square peg in a round hole" with material that does not fit the market that publisher/plugger works, do themselves no favors. The guess work has to be eliminated. You can't say "See where you can fit this." you have to be focused and have targets. And while it doesn't have to be a "Taylor Swift Song", she writes most of her own material. But there are a TON of Taylor Swift Wanna and Gonna bes. This industry is filled with a lot of people on their way up and on their way down. Best to be on the ground floor and if you have something on the "next best thing" you have a much better shot than trying to get in with them after they are on top. Face it, once they are up there, they are in a different world, you don't have a chance at that. Go early young people.

Mark,

I never look for trends. There will always be party animals. There will always be the "summer songs" played on boats.
There will always be young artists, male and female artists, trying to say what they want with no life experiences. Females don't write as much under the age of 25 because they are usually too busy being artists. So there will always be needs for up tempo and positive songs.
There will always be a need for "Anthem songs." "Drift Away" Live Like You Were Dying" songs with "Meat on the bone" that people can sing along with.
There will always be a place for humerous songs. People love to laugh and it might open doors with other writers and that is a ton better in the beginning instead of expecting the "Next Ray Stevens" expect the door to crack for people tired of listening to a night of whining long winded ballads, protest songs and "taking myself TOO DAMN SERIOUSLY SONGS.

What not to do
Avoid cliches and over used titles.
Stay away from Angels, Pick ups, rednecks, walking over rainbows, looking at the stars in her eyes, crying over you, heart and apart, true, blue, eyes, realize and playing your guitar in Nashville. Nobody cares.

Avoid negativity in any way shape and form. These are the ebola virus of songs. There are only two types of people when it comes to your problems. Those that don't care about them, and those that are glad you've got em.'

I personally avoid "Issue songs" like the bubonic plague. Picture Tom Cruise jumping up and down on Oprah's couch, telling Matt Lauer he is "glib" and someone pointing their finger in your face, telling you how stupid you are for the way you vote, talk, and think. Opinions are like assholes and every one has one. And when you sit through a writers night and here 30 writers doing three songs each, 90 songs, and realize that is not even one per cent of a per cent that is done a week in Nashville alone, and one out of three are someone telling you about their cause of the day, their thing you HAVE to pay attention to NOW or the world will come to an end, you will start to get a clue of just how little people care.
They have their own lives, their own pain, their own struggles and care little for yours.

Remember, your songs are not about YOU. They are about the emotional responses and the images you build with your listeners.
Get out of your self and make some positive effects in people's lives.

Nuff said for now. any Questions?

MAB

#5

That was awesome!

Okay then, when you write songs with other people, is there a typical protocol involved in the writing session? Or does it all depend on who it is?

There are so many different approaches I take to writing a song, and now that I'm collaborating more...even with my daughters, working on our first three-person co-write last Friday night, tentative title of "Stupid Boys", ha...I'm curious about how so many collaborating songwriters work together, how those procedural matters happen.

Mark,

Pushing me tonight, are you? Okay, I am up for it. Number one, in most of the writing I do, I am involved in what I call a "teaching excercise with a practical application result." The "clients" are from all walks of life, all styles, all levels, from the very newbies, to people who approach writing like a golf lesson from the house pro." To former rockers or folkies, trying to update their language or styles. All the way to people that I really believe are going to be tomorrow's "NEXT BIG THING!"

The things I do are from writing with over 25 people who have had number one songs, and 20 years of writing almost every day here. My purpose is to teach structure, focus, character, styles, etc. It is kind of a private workshop. The methods I use are gleaned from those much more experienced, successful and focused than I am.

When I am working with someone, I am somewhat channeling their personality and listening to the things they really want to say. I take a sort of verbal dictation as they talk about emotions, settings, experiences. I am in someways a video director, setting the scene, lighting etc.

For the past two days has been Allen Shervelle from Charlotte, North Carolina. Some of you who have visited my web site, www.marcalanbarnette.com might have seen my video on the song, "Less is More" that features Motown Bassist, Bob Babbit, the genuis behind Signed Sealed Delivered, Midnight Train to Georgia and Rubber Band Man among hundreds of others.

Allen is from a rock back ground and is a drummer, so a challenge was to get him to "SLOW down.' He tends to be rather wordy, and when you have too many words, you rarely get your message out. That song came from that. Worked fairly well, with a Motown groove, cool singers, and except for the lead singer, could be a pretty cool song.

Whenever we are sitting down I ask questions.
#1 What are you missing from your catalogue?
#2 What type (style of song) do you want?
#3 What are you passionate about?
#4 If you could write a song for anyone living or dead, who would it be?

In the past two days we have written three songs. I try to confine the experience to two hours for each song. In someone like Allen's case, he is also meeting people in town, playing four writer's nights, and doing a guitar vocal session on the songs we write. Oh yeah, and finding a place to live for when he gets here in August.

The first song was written with another guy who lives here whom I also work with. They both wanted an "Anthem." I had them both start a conversation about what they are going through in their life. They are both interested in music, obviously, but both at very different ages, one being in his 50's and Allen in his early thirties. Through it we talked about the economy, the ups and downs of life, normal day to day experiences most people can identify with.
As I am the senior writer, I don't say very much. This comes from Jimbeau Hinson, who is my mentor, who is a superb lyricist. he goes into what I call the "Jimbeau Zone" and works for about thirty minutes on just the perfect lyric without saying anything.

In my travels I know that great songs are not written, they are re-written. So my goal is to get a "template down." This is groove, melody options, lyrics, sometimes word placement, etc. I try to get as much as I can so everyone can get into their own world and concentrate on where they think it should go.

After about 15-20 minutes I formulate a verse chorus pattern. I write from the first line, trying to set up a scene, and direct the action. then I pick up the guitar, and for the first time we all hear it. I don't really know how I do it, instincts and experience, but most of the time I hit pretty close.

This one was very driving anthem called "Trying my Best To Live" and the feel was somewhat like a country Chicago, type song. Power pushes, and lyrics that simply talk about the things we all go through, yet trying to find the "elbow moments" that we strive for:

I’ve had a lot of demons to battle down
Jumped out of plane’s and never left the ground
Made enough mistakes to fill a lifetime
But I’m still here
Heard old men talk about their regrets
Of taking the easy road with safer bets
I didn’t want to be
A prisoner of my deep dark fears

Chorus
At least I’m trying my best to live
So I don’t look back and say what if
Can’t fail if you don’t try
I never want to ask why
I didn’t give everything I had to give
I’m just trying my best, trying my best to live

We finished the song in about an hour. I then do a work tape on my lap top, e-mail or make a CD and make sure everyone has it.
Then we start the re-writing, which will come later.

Today we wrote a song in the morning for our Mother's, kind of a "I don't want another day go by before I let you know,"

"YOU WERE ALWAYS THERE FOR ME"
Thank you Mom. Song

The after noon we wrote "Right Now." A song for his upcoming wedding in April.

The point on each song is that you pull a little bit of the personality of each person. You "get out of yourself" and think about what other people feel. How would they say it, feel it?
You think in terms of "how would this perform on a writers night?" How would it best demo out? What would separate this from all the other songs in that genre? And most importantly, what is the ultimate goal of this song.

In each one, I feel it is to touch lives. Whether it is for a local wedding crowd that someone might hear it and go "I want that for my wedding." Or that someone is stuck for a special Mother's day present. Or possibly someone is looking for an "Anthem" They might do for their local high school. But all of them are written with today's common language, have a (hopefully)memorable melody, and keeps them singing along and even more, remembering the song after it is over.

I don't know if this long winded thing has helped, but this is what I try to do every day. I am pretty proud of what I do, but admit that I am just one of many guys who try to make things work. Every day I do things that hopefully will make a difference.
Again, I think whether it is Jeffery Steele, trying to find out what some 20 year old artist wants to say, several of us, trying to get our material in front of industry people, to the artists and producers we compete with, we are all trying to bring our best level of craft to the party.

There are a lot of these people who love to go "This is all crap" "they stole my songs", etc. and we can never please everyone, for the most part, we put our hearts and souls in this, coupled with a feel for audiences, and the industry. We go by the most important rule of all,


"Make Memories, not excuses."

MAB

Hey Marc,

Interesting read.

If you're writing an instrumental only, would you use a similar approach ?

Example ; I see images, either still, or short "clips" which somehow trigger musical structure. ( Don't ask me how ) Likewise, choice of instrumentation is somehow dictated by what evolves in the process. eg I can hear, for example, a clarinet , or cross harmonics when it's not there in an orional draft.

Does the musical composition, therefor, take the same route as the lyrical compostion ?

PS -I don't call myself a lyricist.

cheers, niteshift

nitshift, hello my friend,

I can't really tell you about that. Being a music and lyric writer, I don't really ever do one or the other. The closest to it is a thing that has happened to me a couple of times. With every demo I do, I get a "track mix" which is the music track with no vocals. Since my demos are pretty much radio ready, they can be inserted into a scene or background of something easily with no vocals.
It is another reason to do good demos. You might find them in a place you never thought about. I have learned that instrumentation can take a song into an entirely different realm so that is a consideration.
What I would suggest you do is what I suggest to anyone. Find out someone who does what you are talking about (probably on these pages) and find out what they do. These pages are all about information, different perspectives. In my experience if you ask a question in the right direction, usually it will lead you to someone who knows the answer.
You might ask Mike Dunbar, who does things with music tracks more than I do.

MAB

Nite,

That's a good question, sir. When writing instrumentals, I start with a mood, then move to imagery. Then I will listen to successful music, that fits those moods and images, for inspiration.

For example, my instrumental catalog was light on modern synth classical fantasy, so I listened to Dukas' "Sorcerer's Apprentice" and Mussorgky's "Night on Bald Mountain." Then I went to the sci fi channel for fantasy and the PBS mystery Sherlock Holmes. After all of this, I knew I wanted it to be lighter in mood, with texture but not too complicated a melody and a modern touch to it. Finally, I prayed for inspiration and offered my work for God's glory.

The resulting instrumental is called "Through the Gates." You can hear it here, it's the first song, click on it:
http://www.myspace.com/mikedunbarmusic

Well Mike,
I asked Ole Hank to send me a good song but so far he hasn't responded. Or maybe he has but I just didn't hear it. Yeoww!