JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum getting your song heard...

Whenever an aspiring songwriter finds out that I've written songs for everybody from the Beach Boys to Indigo Girls to Tim McGraw, I hear the same question: "How do I get my songs heard?"

My rhetorical response is "Heard by whom? AND what do you expect to happen after "whomever" hears your songs?"

Do you want a publisher to hear them, then sign one or two and start pitching them? Is that your goal? Having your songs pitched is not a bad thing. But, it's not really your goal, is it?

Maybe "How do I get my songs CUT?" is a more appropriate question. For any song to get recorded requires a whole bunch of miraculous serendipity (much of which is completely random). But, you DO have some control over the factors that have to fall into place in order for one or more of your brilliant compositions to find its way into the studio and onto the charts with an established hitmaker.

There are five absolute essentials that you should be doing to create and sustain a successful career as a professional songwriter. "Getting your songs heard" (or "getting your songs pitched," for that matter) I'm afraid is NOT one of those five essentials.

Becoming a successful, professional songwriter is a longterm commitment that starts with improving your craft. Improving your craft requires getting objective, constructive feedback from people who know a thing or two.

While you're working on refining your skills and discovering your unique, individual voice, you should be building relationships — relationships with your peer writers, with bubbling-under recording-artists, with up-and-coming music-biz producers and junior execs.

I remember an interview with Mark D. Sanders back the mid-'90s — when he was just arriving as one of Nashville's top tunesmiths. Sanders didn't claim that his songs were any better. He said his success came for the most part because his friends had graduated into decision-making positions.

The friends you make now may be the hit-writers, the stars, the hit-producers and the music execs of the future. If they like you, trust you and are comfortable with you, you'll very likely benefit from those relationships. At that point, you won't have to worry about how to get your songs heard.

I've had about 230 songs cut over a nearly 40-year career. Very few of those cuts came from a pitch by a publisher or a plugger. The vast majority (at least 90%) came because somebody connected to the project had something to gain by preferring my song over the dozens of other top contenders for each spot on the album.

If you've refined your craft and are writing at a consistent, professional level, cultivating relationships will get you far greater results than finding somebody to pitch your songs.

Don't be too proud to co-write. When you pool your resources with another writer, two magical things can happen: on a business level, the network exposed to the song grows logo-rhythmically; creatively, the song becomes a more universal one (if two or more people agree that every decision in the writing process is the right one, it stands to reason that a greater number of people will respond positively to it). Of course, co-writing can water a song down to a fraction of its potential — but that's the risk you take.

Lastly, learn how to make great demos. Become a producer. Hang out in studios and learn the lingo. Ask questions (discreetly, and at appropriate times). Invest in a home recording facility. Barter your services with other talented, ambitious folks.

I produced and recorded the demo for "My List," a song I co-wrote with Tim James, in the musty attic of a rented Nashville house. That demo didn't cost a single cent out of pocket. Toby Keith's rendition of that song has made over two million bucks. Had I waited around for some publisher to sign the song, demo it and pitch it, it would probably still be gathering dust.

"My List" became the most-played song on country radio in 2002 — not just because it was a quality composition with a poignant message that appealed directly to the post-9/11 national consciousness. It was cut because Tim James got signed to Toby Keith's new publishing venture, Paddock Music. Once again, somebody (in this case Toby Keith) had something to gain from preferring my song over every other song pitched for the project.

You don't just want to "get your songs heard." You want to get cuts and have hits. Start by becoming the best songwriter you can be. Visit my song-craft coaching website at htt://www.makinstuffup.net. Read my book, Makin' Stuff Up (secrets of song-craft and survival in the music-biz). Get honest, professional, constructive feedback on your works-in-progress. Know that your song concepts are clearly communicating the desired emotional impact.

I want you to know what it's like to get a phone call telling you that your song just hit number one. I want you to collect six-figure royalty checks from your mailbox. I want you to know what it's like to stand in the middle of 20,000 fans, all of whom are singing along with every word of your song.

That's when getting your songs heard is really meaningful.

Rand Bishop
Nashville, TN

Rand,

Every morning before leaving for work I check in on JPF. This morning I was really surprised, and pleased, to see this post from you. I have been an admirer of your writing for a long time.

I agree 100% with everything you are saying here. I'm afraid however that I fall into the catagory of pretty much relying on a songplugger. I work with Dallas Gregory of Song Rocket Music in Nashville. Dallas is a great guy, but like you said, it's the personal connections you make that really make things happen. Always have and always will, and that is true of everything in life.

Thanks for posting, and I hope to be able to read more posts occassionally from you. I will be sure and check out your website.

Best,
Marvin Adcock

Hi Rand

Wow, you just excited this Aussie girl. Thanks, I'm only learning, so thanks for your Honesty and Advice.


Michele
Aussie girl

You are fortunate to have Dallas Gregory on your side. He is certainly one of the good ones - a highly motivated and connected professional, as well as a person of integrity.

If at all possible, it's also very wise to make your presence known in Nashville by making frequent visits. I commuted from L.A. for two years before I moved, making the commitment of spending 2 to 5 weeks at a time. Not everyone can afford that kind of commitment. But, my first collaborations with hit Music Row writers came from those visits - and my first Nashville cuts.

My several experiences working with "out-of-town" writers at Writer Zone ultimately turned sour. The out-of-towners didn't feel like they were getting their share of pitches and activity. Yet, they weren't here to grease the wheel and remind our staff of the songs that might have been contenders. Still, pitching is like a lottery ticket. Industry relationships in the long run are more likely to be the ticket to a successful and sustained career.

I wish you success in all your creative endeavors.

Rand

Nice to hear from someone that has made it. I live in Canada so my chances of visiting Nashville are slim, too costly, so my chances of getting a cut are pretty slim. Congratulations on your success, at my age now, I don't stand much of a chance.

Hi Everett. Never say never.....

Hi Rand,

Thanks for the interesting info! Great to hear from someone that knows the ropes.

If you bump into Barbra Streisand while visiting LA, would you have her call me?

Best, John

Welcome to JPF, Rand:

Truer words were never spoken more eloquently. It is a tough business and "serving one's time" while grinding spear points and schmoozing with others in the "biz" rank right up there with talent. Thanks for sharing your view from the top with the rest of us peons. We really appreciate advice and encouragement from folks who have achieved success. So, welcome to JPF. Please visit us as often as time permits.

http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

Thanks very much for taking the time to post this. Very helpful.

Tom

Rand and Marc.

Thank you for your time and sharing of your personal experience. Many do not find time to offer help on sites. And this site has many wonderful people deserving of such information.

Welcome to JPF!

John

Jersey Country:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=328133&content=music

GREAT post Rand. I'm going to bookmark this and refer anyone who asks me that question to this thread. Wonderful to have you here,

cheers
Vikki

Hey Rand,

All good points, and clearly spelt out.

What would your thoughts be regarding how the internet has changed business/personal/working relationships ?

Folks no longer congregate physically at the same traditional hubs of the music industry ( or at least, not to the same extent ) Do you see differences, or is it still 'the relationships formed' which dominate the industry as a whole, regardless of physical distance ?

Thanks.

cheers, niteshift

Rand,

Dallas is a great guy. I was introduced to him by way of Kendal Franceschi, another great guy. When I first contacted Dallas a few years ago he told me right up front that he was not interested in taking on another writer, but I convinced him let me submit some cds for him to take a listen. I was fortunate that the demos changed his mind and we have been good friends and associates ever since.

I do make trips back and forth to Nashville, but not as often as I would like. Mostly just for studio sessions and the occassional connection with someone. I am hopeful that should the cuts ever materialize the connections and the trips will become much more frequent.

I know what you mean about long distance collaboration. It is difficult at best, but sometimes everything just clicks and it works out real well. I co-write with two good friends in Kentucky named J.P. Pennington (of Exile) and John Bizzack pretty much by long distance and we have had some great songs come out out of it.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, and I hope we get the chance to meet sometime, and possibly write together.

Best always,
Marvin

Wow, Nashville has landed. Thanks for taking time to post here Rand and Marc! We'll listen to all the wisdom you care to dish.

Rand,

I passed along your sentiments to Dallas and he reciprocated with the following:

Marvin,

Thank-you for forwarding those kind words, it did make my day!! As one of my peers in the business, I appreciate what Rand said. I can tell you, I feel the same way about him and he is an awesome writer.

Take care,
Dallas

Just thought you would like to read it Rand.

Best,
Marvin

Hi Rand & Marc

Your right Mark K, YIPEE, Nashville has landed.

It is great to have you guys here, this Aussie girl is only learning, and the internet is my only connection so far.

I'm crossing my fingers, and saying a big prayer, as I have just entered three songs into the pacific songwriting competition here in Australia. Great prizes and it would be a great start for me if I Won, as to being able to network with others in the industry, would be fantastic.

Do you guys know Miranda Lambert hah, I'm searching for her, cause another songwriter and I reckon she would be a perfect match for my song "Get Over It".

Welcome to JPF.

Michele
Aussie girl

Rand,

Thanks for the priceless insights and information - very generous of you.

Best,

Barry

HIDee Rand, Thanks for The Insight!

I'm of course Awed by your Success, tho well-aware of Your Sacrifices..& decision to move to Nashville, which obviously paid-off. My Questions as a long-term writer (who used to visit L.A. & Nashcity in search of That Cut) would be these:

1) How many Songs-Written before you got That First Cut?
2) Did it take several years...or occur-rapidly after Moving To Nashville?
3) 230 cuts is quite-impressive. I'd find it interesting to know "out of How Many Songs-Penned?" (Penning "The Next" has always come easy to me, but making any "pay"...hasn't yet-happened.)

WISH there was a "Magic Ratio"...heh...where ya pen say, 500 to get That First Cut... But..Whatever Number ya took, I'll find it Inspirational.

Many Thanks, & Best Wishes,
Stan

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

Hi Marc

Thanks for your lovely words, Miranda Lambert is fantastic, I love her song Kerosene, and I do get what your saying.

I actually love Nel Straite singing my song, if you listen to "Get Over It" on my soundclick site, she has an amazing voice. Maybe I should write Nel an album hah.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it very much. I'll keep writing, and entering those competitions, you just never know.

By the way, love your pic, what a smile! Welcome!

This Aussie girl will get to Nashville One Day!

Michele
Aussie girl

Ya'all listen to Mr. Barnett. The man is a credit to all of us compulsively creative folks. Co-write. Do it.

My latest book Makin' Stuff Up (secrets of song-craft and survival in the music biz) is actually a virtual co-writing experience with yours truly (war stories included). And, the reader doesn't even have to smell my breath. Available on Amazon.com and my website (www.makinstuffup.net).

Co-writing is critical for a whole slough o' reasons.

Here are three - first, it can be a heck of a lot more fun (assuming you like the person you're sharing air with); second, it increases your network (your co-writer and his team know peeps you don't know and versa visa); third, if two good writers agree that a line or a hook or a melody works, the idea is far more likely to be universally embraced.

If co-writers are lazy, however, collaboration can result in mediocre cliche pap. We all need to discipline ourselves to write with collaborators with whom we have chemistry and who dare us to be the greatest writers we can be.

And, you should never stop writing on your own, no matter how lonely or futile it might seem. That's how you keep that connection with your own personal muse alive and kickin'!

RB

Stan:
My first cuts came in bands I was in back in the '70s. Then I started producing records in Montreal - French Canadian things and my own singles. Then, I got a Long John Baldry cut and a Larry Evoy thing (obscure, but encouraging).

In the '80s I had an A&R, staff-production gig at a label/production co. in L.A. Lots of activity came from that - Beach Boys, Heart, Cheap Trick, Vanilla Fudge, Outlaws. I was lucky - in the right place, right time. It's all about relationships.

It's important to develop good professional song-craft (which I did by trial and error, and by writing with great artists). But, most of my success has come because some decision maker involved in a project had a reason to prefer my song over some stranger's song.

Unfortunately, there's no direct correlation between the effort you put into your writing and the number of cuts or amount of money you make. There's a lot of mystery and serendipity that goes into becoming a successful writer. But, if you're prepared when opportunity knocks, you'll be in position to sustain a decent career.
RB

The internet has opened up worlds of possibilities. Now people can collaborate continent to continent. I'm trying to get writers to get together on the forum on my website (www.makinstuffup.net) to do the same thing folks do here on JPF. This is fantastic to be able to share ideas with folks around the world. And, nothing would thrill me more than to facilitate getting some talented folks cookin' up some great cross-continental musical stew. Brian has created such an amazingly hospitable place for writers to commune. Hat's off to Brian!

That said, it doesn't replace sitting across the table from an incredibly talented and inspired co-writer. But, great new opportunities abound in the digital and virtual worlds.

RB

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

Long John Baldry! (I think Big Jim used to sing with his grandpa...)

Now I've got to go digging through my old British vinyls again...

Rand & Marc, this is a goldmine having you two posting here. THANKS. I think a lot of people will be reading who may not respond, because they don't really know what to say. But the education about the realities of the music industry is very much appreciated.

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

I think most people gherm because they can't comprehend how to get that song heard without gherming. You'll explain and explain all the ways to move forward in the process, and I know in my heart it's true...but it will always be a baffling concept to grasp: if you want to get your song heard, the one thing you can't do is to ask someone to listen to it.

Man, and back in the 50's, you could walk into an office building and maybe even get someone like Bing Crosby to give it a whirl. Those stories just fan the flames, I guess.

Okay, here's a question. Is it even possible to eventually co-write your way into Nashville songwriting circles without moving to Nashville?

Great thread guys...well worth reading...

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

"gherming" has been around a long time...but that was one of the very first things our NSAI leaders went over before we went to Nashville and funny we did witness people doing it...the facial expressions on the artist/writers face completely changed when someone came up with an demo....Got to believe they just wanted to walk right outta there....must be very annoying.

Great thread.........great story thier Marc.......I could read these all day long. Mark, in my limited experience I have to say that I made most of my progress when I was in Nashville (which was about once or twice a year for five years) for two weeks at a time. There's something to be said for putting out a hand and looking the other person in the eye. Not only can you get a feel for them but vice versa. On the other hand, I wrote two songs with a co-writer in person and by that time was able to co-write the third over the net as we had gotten to know each other. Right now at my level of experience and with what I want to accomplish I'm heading in the direction of using coaches and co-writers to perfect my craft.
Steve

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

Thanks for the great Nashville perspectives on this subject. I can certainly understand the personal relationship aspect of getting heard - that's just how the world works in practically any field.

One area I would like you to shed some light on pertains to trying to hit a home run (e.g. a hit country record) versus getting a cut on an album in a comparatively small genre - more of a niche, let's say. Obviously, most of the attention is on hitting one out of the ballpark, but wouldn't someone without the contacts and track record be ahead to aim at something more modest - possibly by a local up and coming indie artist rather than a megastar?

Thanks,

Colin

Marc I am reading them all you're just writing faster than I can read.................

steve

Rand,
thanks for sharing the insight that only the voice of experience can offer...it is a very unselfish thing to share one's professional viewpoints with aspiring writers...i myself am very appreciative to both you and Marc for your recent posts and hope they continue, for those of us who haven't achieved commercial success YET they are like mapquest...

Marc,
my eyes lit up when you started speaking about Jimbeau...he is like the most awesome dude ever...Brenda too...my wife and i were fortunate enough to spend some time with them both at a couple of conferences...I owe him something next time i see him because for about the last 5 or 6 years i have been doing a kinda rocked up version of "Hillbilly Highway" wherever i play out live...if that song isn't pure 2 chord genius...wow...he and Jeffrey Steele did an unplugged version of it together and i've been hooked on it ever since...next time ya see him please tell him i said HI...
anyway, appreciate all you're adding around here lately...write great, be well...moker jarrett

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES YES YES.....I got so excited I started spelling yes wrong....LOL

Marc,

That would be wonderful to have a seasoned insider available for us....

Marc, who was your mentor, everyone that I know who has had some kind of Nashvillian success has had one?

You know me Marc...........I think it's a great idea.

No brainer!

Post deleted by Marc Barnette

Marc,

I have Steele's albumns they are inspiring! I've only seen him once. Have a great time playing with those amatuers....:)

Rand
Thank you for such an informative article. That was wonderful and answered a lot of questions that I have had in my mind

It was very kind of you to share your time with all of us

God Bless

Dan:

Thanks for reading. It's actually very gratifying to be able to share a little bit of my 40 years of industry experience.

Writers write. When I've got stuff on my mind, a forum like this gives me another opportunity to use language to express something that means a lot to me.

I don't quite know how these "threads" are supposed to work (or if there are really any unspoken rules). It seems to me that what began as a discussion of how relationships are the key to longterm songwriting success has taken a left turn into something else.

It's also of critical importance to continue to improve songcraft by studying great songwriting, writing, getting objective constructive professional feedback, writing some more,continuing to build relationships, keep on writing, and learning to make great demos. Then, do it all over again.

I can't tell you how many times I was sure my latest song was a slam dunk smash. Then, a couple of months later, I won't even feel that same song is worthy of inclusion in my set or in my priority pitches. Writers should always be improving, refining and honing their skills. Then, when your relationships bring around those cherished opportunities, you'll be ready to do the necessary work.

All the success to you...

And that's pretty much how they work, Rand. We call it Thread Drift.

LOL...guilty

Hi,

I agree with your sentiments: I've seen many people have vague aims in terms of getting their songs heard.

I'm currently experimenting with a new approach to marketing my music: I have two songs that I've prepared to sell, with optional copyright. I don't know whether it's appropriate to post the advertisement on the forum or not. Could you advise?

Thanks!
B Tait

Hi,

I agree with your sentiments: I've seen many people have vague aims in terms of getting their songs heard.

I'm currently experimenting with a new approach to marketing my music: I have two songs that I've prepared to sell, with optional copyright. I don't know whether it's appropriate to post the advertisement on the forum or not. Could you advise?

Thanks!
B Tait

Hi Rand,

I agree with your sentiments: I've seen many people have vague aims in terms of getting their songs heard.

I'm currently experimenting with a new approach to marketing my music: I have two songs that I've prepared to sell, with optional copyright. I don't know whether it's appropriate to post the advertisement on the forum or not. Could you advise?

Thanks!
B Tait

ll