JPF Home Page Forums Creative Arts Forums Creative Writing Forum The Songwriter's dilemma

this one I just made up thinking about lyrics on the forum.
One day a songwriter posted their lyrics on a forum to be looked at and critiqued, when the first person saw them they saw it could use a new word in the chorus and said the rest was great!Then the next viewer said the 2nd line of the 1st verse was all wrong and it needed to be corrected said everything else was ok.Then the next viewer came and said ohh no, it is too long and has no story at all that makes sense.The next viewer came in and said the song must have a bridge everything else is ok.Each time the song writer thinking that the viewers knew more about it tried to make the changes suggested, finally they stepped back took a long look at it and were so confused they trashed the whole song, moral of the story is you can't please them all so you gotta please yourselves.

I agree - while some songwriters are die hard conformists to their art (..and there is nothing wrong with that) some like to experiment lyrically and musically.

I am not sure where I fit right now but you have to listen to comments in a positive way no matter who they come from - complete amateur to seasoned professional. Every member on this site has a positive comments to make and each comment IS valid - it is whether you choose for it to fit with your own songwriting philosophy.

As you say, please yourself first - it's the only place to begin.

what I try to do is post all of the comments into the file where the song lives, and I will consider them all when and if I do a rewrite..(I am not very good a rewriting anyway so I am trying to learn) When it comes down to it, It think most people only TAKE advice from those they can relate to anyway. if someone tells you something and you COMPLETELY disagree you tend to dismiss their opiniomns.. I try to give it enough time so that I can come back to it and look at it objectively so that the version in my mind isn;t easier to "hear" then any suggested changes, and I just try to "LISTEN " (mentally ) to it both ways to see which one I think is better. (but it always HAS to be what I think is better just because If I DON'T think it's better I can't do it justice ewhen I play it, and it will sound BAD for that reason.. unless it is just a lyric on paper.. then anyone can decide what THEY want, and it is as much THEIR lyric as it is mine! (just my take on the subject)

I don't follow advice in order to please people. I listen to critiques, take them all seriously (especially the negatives). But it's up to the songwriter to make the judgments, not the critics. Critiques are help, not instructions. In the end, you have to make your own call.

be your own toughest critic first

truth!

word

If we change a lyric based on a suggestion, do we do it to please others? I would wonder if those that do are perhaps stuck in an adolescent way of dealing with society?

Suggestions are usually given in the spirit of "being helpful" and perhaps pointing out something to the writer that he/she might have missed.

But I understand you to mean that one can be easily overwhelmed by a lot of negative criticism that's all over the place. One must indeed step back and not let it get to him/her...and still try to keep in mind we're all trying to get better at our craft.

NONE of us are here simply to show off how what great songwriters we are; we post our songs because we really DO want feedback--TRUE, we wish it could all be good and that every word that flowed from our pen was unchangably perfect, and it can really hurt to receive the negative; but it's a character builder, and I think "having character" is an often overlooked pre-requisite to consistently good songwriting...

--Mike

some will change lyrics based on others thinking they know more
and will rely on them in their best interest

the way to get better at the craft in my opinion is not to rush posting your lyric until you yourself have been the toughest critic on it and feel comfortable with the way it reads, now there will always be those who want to change it for 1 reason or another you got to figure out which of these are trying to help and which are trying to hold back their competition by saying it's great (when it's lousy)

and yes there are some that just want the exposure and nothing more, there is no such thing as a PERFECT LYRIC only the writer can say is that is ok and comfortably satisfied then nothing else matters(I often go back and change words add words but that can go on forever if you keep doing it)find some middle ground be satisfied

So some of us are trying to "hold back" our "competition" by "saying it's great when it's lousy" ?

You DO realize in that statement, you have made yourself the ultimate judge of someone elses work by saying that, first, that YOU know when it's good or not, and that when others say a lyric it's good, you (secondly) know THEIR motives are for devious reasons???

Hmmmm...you might think about that Nubbin...

But I'll go along with your paranoid argument for a second. Let's say a critiquer gives praise to something that is "not good" (I don't know what ultimate "judge" stepped in and made this pronouncement, but, for the sake of argument)...I could imagine many, many reasons WHY a reviewer might do that:


1) Different themes need to be reviewed in different ways...tell me, would you be as harsh in a lyric about the death of one's own mother as you would a lyric about a football team?

2) Newbies need more sensitivity than regulars...It can be very discouraging to totally SLAM a newbies early effort, even if it IS obviously BAD, because what's needed is encouragement first and foremost. To accent the positive and downplay the negative is thoughtful on the part of the reviewer.

There are countless but I'll stop there.

I would add that I don't think anyone here heaps praise to hold back competitors...WHO, may I ask is a competitor, here??? This is a new way of looking at JSP, hmmmm....you know, to me, it feels like a family, and sure, it can get competitive at times, but I don't think any of us here are "competing" with each other, as an "overriding" way of behaving...we are indeed here to share, and if you want to be the ultimate judge of when someones praise is possibly "suspect", well, feel free to spend your time encouraging such paranoia in yourself, but count me out, thanks

--Mike

I know of forums that do exactly as I have stated

Welcome to JPF!!!

Please try to get to know us (and us you)...you might find we are generally an amiable, helpful loving bunch--who are for the most part sincerely trying to be helpful, "bad seeds with agendas" easily sprout to the surface and become recognizable--really no need to spend too much time worrying on that, JMO...

--Mike

I shall scrutinize everyone as equally as I can and then see what evolves, hopefully I will be wrong then I shall rejoice

Songs should not be written by committee! If you put one up for critiquing, you listen carefully to the feedback, consider the source, and evaluate whether you, the songwriter, like it better with the changes or not.

Some make suggestions and say "use or lose"....the songwriter ultimately is responsible for the song. You can't tell the fans that you had a better word in there, but someone suggested it be changed to this one which is not as good.

this is true the songwriter(s) are responsible for their song