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Real Deal
by Brian Austin Whitney - 05/07/26 01:38 AM
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Flyte
by Gary E. Andrews - 05/06/26 05:36 PM
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This is a site with a lot of songwriters, how come we don't get a lot more people(singers,artist that don't write) coming here looking for songs to record? I don't expect the major artist to come here, but there must be indie artist that want to record and maybe don't write, unless they prefer to record covers, why don't they come here seeking songs. If they go to publishers they will be offered only bottom drawer songs, here they will be offered top drawer songs. Unless the bottom drawer songs of publishers are better than top songs here, why would they not look here? Maybe they do come here and lurk and listen but never post.
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Hi Everett: My guess is that there is so much to choose from on the net... and so little available to the artists looking for song in the way of knowing credibility... other than "word of mouth." I believe that in time, JPF will become a place where budding artists frequent (probably cloaked) very often. Who knows, the trend may lead a few of the "biggies" to follow suit. Good question. Wish I had a concrete answer... but, Hope Springs Eternal! Best, Dave http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice
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Bottom drawer songs offered by publishers? Why would they do that? No one makes any money unless the songs become hits.
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I'll have to agree with Everett in that we songwriters seem to do a lot of work with small returns. We work for the bottom dollar, and even when one is recorded, nobody knows who the songwriter is, or cares, for that matter. I'm so downhearted that I finally hit bottom with this one:
Bottom Dollar Song Of Love (Larry W. Jones 07/04/2008) (song#5504)
Well, I guess I'm down to where I belong
And I'm bound to move along
Bet my bottom dollar she won't return
I guess the bottom line is, live and learn
Now, I've been down this road a time or two
And it's a heavy load to sing the blues
There's no use in trying to tag along
Singing a bottom of the barrel song of love
Well, I'm down to my bottom dollar song
Sweet dreams don't come 'round like they did before
The lines in my love songs came out all wrong
They're not as strong since she walked out the door
Yes, I'm down to my bottom dollar song of love
- instrumental -
My arms once held the treasure of a dream
Worth more than what a million dollars seem
She was a love song that came from above
Now she's gone and I'm down at the bottom of love
Well, I'm down to my bottom dollar song
Sweet dreams don't come 'round like they did before
The lines in my love songs came out all wrong
They're not as strong since she walked out the door
Yes, I'm down to my bottom dollar song of love
Kingwood Kowboy - Author of over 6,900 song lyrics
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Bottom drawer songs offered by publishers? Why would they do that? No one makes any money unless the songs become hits. Most publishers have staff writers whom are paid a draw against future royalties. All writers of this caliber write good songs but not necessarily all great songs. The great songs will get pitched to the major artist, but the good songs will get pitched to the up and coming artist, better to have them out there earning a few dollars to recoup some of the cost of paying the staff writers than just have them sitting there, and who knows, sometimes the good song just might click and become a good earner. No one, not even the experts, can predict which song will catch the public's' fancy and become a hit. I.E. Achy breaky heart.
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I think one reason might simply be that "artists who don't write" are actually pretty rare. I couldn't name one singer of original music who doesn't at least write some of the music himself (or herself).
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I think one reason might simply be that "artists who don't write" are actually pretty rare. I couldn't name one singer of original music who doesn't at least write some of the music himself (or herself). Years ago most country singers did not necessarily write their own material, they looked for the best they could get. Many great writers can not sing well. Some times the artist will take credit as co-writer when in fact they wrote little or none of the song. Labels today would sooner sign a reasonable singer that writes fairly good songs, than sign a great singer that can't write, because now they have to search for songs to suit that singer. If staff writers of publishers in Nashville can't supply, they are stymied, because they have closed all other doors to all other writers.
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I've had 2 folks redo a couple of my songs through myspace. Very flattering but, just between you and me, not as good as the original. JMHO. Why won't this hat fit anymore?
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Because none of them are ready. None of the ones I have heard at least. I haven't heard one killer song in the mp3 section of this forum. If was JPF was known as a place that had amazing songs, believe me, there would be people checking it out.
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Why would any artist (who has a publishing agent) want to spend countless hours listen to mostley very average to less than average music (in their opinion) looking for one or two great songs, when someone else with a better idea of the mindless millions' desires and dreams is willing to do it for a small fee?
I'm not a muso or a performer but at the moment I don't have time to play and write...it's one or the other...
There are a lot of songs out there .... but not one that everybody likes.
Cheers
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Songs posted to JPF are not subject to any screening process. They are not separated by genres and they vary from first drafts written by beginner songwriters to fully developed, possibly great songs, but it would not be an efficient place for artists to seriously look for a song.
Actually, Taxi, which takes a rifle shot approach and only forwards carefully screened songs, scores few if any major hits and brags about getting a song placed on a cable show for pocket change.....
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Because none of them are ready. None of the ones I have heard at least. I haven't heard one killer song in the mp3 section of this forum. If was JPF was known as a place that had amazing songs, believe me, there would be people checking it out. This point might make it a good idea to have songs that "are" killer, (by whatever standard by some here), brought to a whole other page, as I know I heard some killer songs throughout the past ten years here. Many "good" songs as well. They could be right now on page one, and/or page two and so on, and just not heard by you or any given singers yet. Plenty of songs that might qualify as killer could go all the way back to the last page from 2001. If not, we ALL suck!
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Songs posted to JPF are not subject to any screening process. They are not separated by genres and they vary from first drafts written by beginner songwriters to fully developed, possibly great songs, but it would not be an efficient place for artists to seriously look for a song.
Actually, Taxi, which takes a rifle shot approach and only forwards carefully screened songs, scores few if any major hits and brags about getting a song placed on a cable show for pocket change..... Ah very nicely said Colin  Everett - Actually if you search for sites about song writing and I have, there are few worth taking a second look at period. Never mind joining and FORGET about going as an artist to dig for songs. They could look at a few quickly and get discouraged or turned off some how. Jim said it, artists don't even bother much with other peoples songs. I have been saying for years "songwriting for others" is a dying art. NOBODY who is happening needs songs! They get top pick! Those who aren't happening may need songs but aren't happening enough to know it! Stevens119- There is no place anyone goes that I know of that advertises "our site has all great songs come look here," Or in my circles I have NEVER heard "go here for songs" Unless it's a music library Music libraries and song writing forums and boards are TOTALLY different things! Here boards are used 95% of the time for developing songs and ideas. And also at least 50% of the time the person has NO real PLANS for the material. They are not shopping the songs! They are not spending money to produce them, record them, or promote them. So looking at the forums is NO way to judge really. If we made a page here of OUR BEST SONGS ONLY then you would have your hits and great songs that could also have hit potential. Where is that board? When the JPF awards are done those songs picked would be something on that level. Not someone who spent an hour writing a song and another hour recording it all by themselves then threw it up on the lyric or mp3 board. I have heard hits songs here, but very very few for the amount posted. Even many many hit song writers have very very few hits..... ------------------------------------------------------ I don't put too much stock in what's popular is what's great. You CAN polish a TURD, I never wanna here that old BS saying that you can't!
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Killer songs are a rare thing, even the so called great writers only produce a killer song every now and then. Great songs are not in abundance supply either, there are a fair number of good songs around and a vast supply of fair to bad songs. We all write a fair number of lukewarm songs and every once in a while a good song, great and killer songs will very rarely come along.
A lot that make radio by major artist barely make the good song category, a few great ones but killer songs, maybe one or two a year. Publishers are suppose to be the filters that weed out all the bad stuff and keep the good and great, but they have turned off the taps to most outside supply, so they don't get to find any diamonds in the rough, most of what they keep is what is turned out by their staff writers. Staff writers are not song machines, they don't turn out all great songs, or even all good songs, let alone killer songs. So how does budding staff writers get heard to get into the inner circle?
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I believe the real music recording business is still done face to face in pitch meetings with publishers, artists, producers, and managers accepting what each has to offer in those meetings as the best of what's out there for this project now. Here's an example...Allan Jackson...with a recent cd the record company, publishers with contacts with them, etc. put 200 songs on hold...2-3-4 months pass...Allan has his producer, and record company execs in a meeting and announces he won't be cutting any of his holds, he's written 12 songs himself that he feels are right for the project he's doing. They know that's where the extra money is, the writer's share. A site like this is not productive enough for them to take more than a glance at the mp3 postings, and they are not going to dig through lyrics only, though they would do well to put a guy like couch on staff and have gifted music composers write current music to his lyrics. I've posted hundreds of songs here and less than a handful have a real shot. Damn, that hurt to say i guess i keep plugging away cos it just takes one magical song to open up a world of possibilities. We have had several indie artists approach both Dale and I from on here, and through soundclick and myspace, with intentions of cutting our songs, even had a couple do it. But i am not of the mindset that believes that's the way this business works. We have more success when we find listings and pitch to them from a current listing.Those publisher contacts are real, and could develop into what we're after.Great songs, personal contacts, networking,marketing and persistence, oh and a load of luck grease this industry's wheels of fortune. Great thread Everett, maybe once we get that forum up with a screening process from mentors to put a song on that page,we might have a collection of work there that it would be beneficial to an industry insider to spend an hour or so browsing through. I know they make alot of money when they tap into a writer or artist at the beginning of their career. Personally, i can't believe a guy like sub hasn't had 20-30 chart topping songs, the guy is great. Then a new writer, like Perry Smith, that guy would make a great writer if a major would take him under their wing and develop him. We have an immense amount of talent here, it's just not presented in a format that would be productive for that industry person to dive into in a time is of the essence world.
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Publishers are supposed to be the filters that weed out all the bad stuff and keep the good and great I think you are mistaken to assume this. Publishers are there to select those songs which they think will earn them the most money given the current state of affairs in the industry - whether not you and I think those are good songs is entirely irrelevant.
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If we made a page here of OUR BEST SONGS ONLY then you would have your hits and great songs that could also have hit potential. Where is that board? Sounds like a good idea. I am not the type to weed through material. I also don't have the time to listen to everybodys songs and tell them what I think. So i have never posted in the mp3 or lyrics sections. There should be a forum, called Best of JPF songs. It would be a place where there are songs you can listen to and download that are considered pitch ready. Couldn't be that hard to do. But then you may hurt the people's feelings who's songs are not deemed worthy of pitch ready status
Last edited by stevens119; 11/17/08 09:07 PM.
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Publishers are supposed to be the filters that weed out all the bad stuff and keep the good and great I think you are mistaken to assume this. Publishers are there to select those songs which they think will earn them the most money given the current state of affairs in the industry - whether not you and I think those are good songs is entirely irrelevant. And how do they select those songs if they don't listen to songs. An oil company or mining company will soon have nothing to sell if they don't get out and explore new and virgin areas for their next strike. Once they find ore bearing rock, how much tailing is discarded and sifted to recover the mineral or diamonds that they sell.
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Life would be so much easier if we had a specific forum in which the "seekers" could post about their interest in our work.....
Of course, the PM option seems to make much more sense, considering that artists may not want to post publicly about their interest, but if we did have some way to encourage interaction, it seems like that would help, right?
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And how do they select those songs if they don't listen to songs. You missed my point. I never said that they don't listen to songs, only that they're not in the business of tirelessly searching for the best songs around. Your job, as the songwriter, is to convince them that they need to be selling your songs. The same goes for indie artists, if you ask me.
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And how do they select those songs if they don't listen to songs. You missed my point. I never said that they don't listen to songs, only that they're not in the business of tirelessly searching for the best songs around. (You miss my point, if they don't explore new ground, they will not find new gems.) Your job, as the songwriter, is to convince them that they need to be selling your songs. The same goes for indie artists, if you ask me. And how do you do that if you can't approach them behind their closed doors?
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You miss my point, if they don't explore new ground, they will not find new gems. No, I got that... I'm saying they don't necessarily care, because they're not yet done mining their current grounds. And how do you do that if you can't approach them behind their closed doors? Who says you can't approach them?
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Because none of them are ready. None of the ones I have heard at least. I haven't heard one killer song in the mp3 section of this forum. If was JPF was known as a place that had amazing songs, believe me, there would be people checking it out. I cannot believe you said that. Fist of all there have been thousands of songs posted here in various stages of development. I doubt you have listened to even a few. Second what may be a killer song to you may be crap to somebody else and vice versa. Having listened to current chart stuff from various genres I can look at many songs posted here and say they are every bit as good if not better. Most established artists have an abundant supply of material from established producers with proven track records. That is the easy and preferred option. It is rare for them to look outside this field and take a chance on a newbie. That does not mean that newbie songs are in any way inferior. In fact some would argue that a new and refreshing injection of songs from newbies would be a breath of fresh air to the tired formula our charts are full of. It would be interesting to see what you think is a killer song and what is not.
Last edited by BIG JIM MERRILEES; 11/21/08 03:30 PM.
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A producer, label, or artist looking for songs cannot do so without a filter. It takes way too much time. Most often, and traditionally, that filter is a publisher. There are no filters on our boards.
The idea of having a forum of "bests" on the board is fraught with problems. For one, who does the picking? If we did find someone who was willing to try, how much time would it take to listen to every song posted? A lot...they'd either need to be independently wealthy, very generous with their time, or they'd have to be paid. Also, what would make biz folks think this person had the talent, skill and insight to pick a hit, if folks didn't think the filter knew what they were doing, they wouldn't bother. If it was peer reviewed, and run by a board or voted on, you'd have similar problems. It would get "clique-ish" and still wouldn't have credentials as a hit picking group.
Another problem, if all the really good songs and song ideas are on one forum, what would stop a publisher from telling their staff writers to mine that forum for song ideas?
Here's my take on it. We need someone who does this as a business. Someone who will pitch these songs without exposing them on a public forum. Someone who has contacts in the biz. Someone who is experienced in song assessment, placement and pitching. That person is...a publisher.
As an aside: I happen to know that Brian sometimes quietly recommends songs. I am pretty sure that other folks here do that to. A song that he and other folks think is truly great will get pushed along. BUT DON'T START PM'ING HIM TO LISTEN TO YOUR SONGS. Just write the best songs you can. If it's really good, and you network it, it will get attention on the boards.
You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
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Our forum attracts people from all walks of life, from different genres and music styles.
It is represented by people of mixed experience and abilities from the complete novices stumbling to write their first song to the experienced songwriter whose songs are "oven ready" Not all JPFs necessarily want their songs pitched. Some are just here to learn or just write as a hobby or for their own amusement. Others are seeking that elusive HIT. I would suspect that most of the serious songwriters use a variety of means to get exposure. They are constantly searching networking, pitching etc. I do not think that any special board is a viable way of placing the best songs. Who would choose these songs? What credentials would they have? They would need to know the business so where would these professional peole find the time and would they do it for nothing?
I am quite happy the way things are. For those who want to pitch songs there are proven better ways than posting them on our site. In fact I know of some who do not post their best songs in case their ideas are stolen and copied. Me for one.
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This is easy. First, the only genres where it's common for artists not to be writers (or their producers not to be) is Country, Christian and Jazz. Jazz is all about standards. Christian music has a lot of it's own issues, but I will say that there are christian sites more which most likely a frequented by those folks looking for that type of music. That leaves country. For most upstart, entry level artists, they are doing covers of well known hits and don't need permission from anyone. For the rare artist who IS truly looking for original songs, they're likely going to Nashville, just like their songwriting brethren, looking for those original songs. If you throw a rock in Nashville, you're likely going to hit a songwriter. Everyone has songs they want recorded. It may be true that the publishers hoard a few songs in hopes of major artists recording, but in truth, there's 1000's of quality songs floating out there for an artist to choose from. They are a dime a 100 dozen. It's simply a case of supply and demand. Way too much supply and little to no demand. We get an occassional artist looking for songs here, but even when that happens, they usually email me directly and ask where to look. I may point towards a few folks here and I also point towards former award nominees. The awards process is the filter I personally use for most referrals since I know the songs that make it through (and some that get close but don't make it through) have been well filtered by a large number of fans, peers and industry pro's. But to be honest, it's not common for folks to come looking for songs. I'd guess a couple times a month at best. I've personally met over 25K JPF members, so that also enters into who I would point someone towards. And regulars here on the boards that I haven't met I also consider go to folks due to their long term participation. Sometimes the artist checks someone out and just says they aren't interested. There's little I can do and why force it when there's so many others I can direct them towards.
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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By the way, after a quick scroll here, there's several people who have posted who I have sent artist to in the past. And no, I am not going to say who they are (a couple already know who they are, at least 1 other doesn't know because the artist wasn't interested).
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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Thanks for doing it, whether I was one or not. Many things you do go unnoticed. And it does make the point of seekers do come here, whether asked or not. Maybe some on their own after coming here on invite.
John
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By the way, after a quick scroll here, there's several people who have posted who I have sent artist to in the past. And no, I am not going to say who they are (a couple already know who they are, at least 1 other doesn't know because the artist wasn't interested).
Brian Now you got me curious.LOL
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I bet I was the one where the artist was not interested. LOL
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Just to add my two cents worth...I honestly believe that people don't want to hear when their song isn't up to the standards that are being recorded. It's like hearing you have an ugly child, when to you, they are beautiful. During the last awards, I had the opportunity to hear some truly GREAT songs at Brian's one afternoon. It was after they had run several parts of the screening process and the songs Brian played for me were amazing. They were not only deserving to be part of the awards but could have been pitched as is, that day. I began to look at my material in a much more critical way. Not to just be hard on myself, but I wasn't ready. It was as simple as that. After writing for fifteen years and being the undiscovered star writer with my friends and family, I began the slow process of learning how to write, why some songs are hits and work, and what I need to do to compete. It IS a competition and you have to be ready. I have heard some really good songs on the forums but the writers shouldn't be sitting and hoping to be discovered by someone dropping by for a listen. Do everything you can to MAKE it happen.Play out every chance you get, go to meetings, network, listen get involved, and, remember to be nice to everyone, cause you don't know who is related to who. Honestly, listen to your songs... If you get your moment with a person that could make your dreams come true, make it unforgettable... for both of you,
Tony
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Good point Tony. I guess it comes down to the act of song creation can lead to believing it's as good as Creation itself. That's cool though when just being in the moment, for one's own joy of writing.
But, when viewed as a product that others will review for business reasons that are pursued, we can't have the mindset of being THE Creator. Just a craftsman delivering either what is wanted or not.
With me being indie, I have the luxury of not trying to give what business wants, and just enjoy our band, our songs, "totally". Our listeners tend to be pleased, which is all we seek. Whatever business happens to enter or not is up to them. We're in the driver's seat. I'd rather please us and our listeners first. I entered only in the first year I was here, (ten years ago), with good placement. That was enough to be reassured I can do music that pleases more than family.
No one point to all that, other than I wish for others that may not win top spots, or anything, to just enjoy their creativity, and their process of learning more about songwriting, for business or not.
This is why I like Brian's premise for the awards: "If it moves you", as the judges are told. Well, sometimes, a non crafted, non clever, non experienced writer can move someone with a simple, yet passionate attempt at "their creation".
So much music, so little business opps. Many no shows in business and awards could be the ones to also catch out live.
So, compete, sure. But maybe don't get caught up in thinking what you heard would be more appealing to all others in any given venue or CD. They might be impressed with you! It's all subjective anyway.
John
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This is easy. First, the only genres where it's common for artists not to be writers (or their producers not to be) is Country, Christian and Jazz. Jazz is all about standards. Christian music has a lot of it's own issues, but I will say that there are christian sites more which most likely a frequented by those folks looking for that type of music. Don't want to argue with Mr Whitney or change the direction of the thread but I felt the need to point out the pretty serious error in part of the quoted statement above. It generally shows a total lack of understanding of the Christian music scene. The VAST number of Christian artists at the very top of that huge scene DO write their own stuff. Well over 90% and that would be true for the majority of the many sub genres of Christian music. Rock, Pop, Hip Hop, Gospel, Adult Contemporary, Inspirational, Indie, etc. A quick look at the top ten albums on the billboard charts will show that EVERY one of those groups writes their own stuff. Mr Whitney is accurate, however, in stating that Christian artists that are looking for music have a number of other places to go that are dedicated to that genre of music. Sure, there are a lot of singers, bands, etc in the entrance level that do covers, just like every other genre of music, but to say that most Christian artists don't write is just not accurate in any way at all. Even if you set aside the very top levels of the Christian music scene you will still find a huge writer base. Just check out Indieheaven for example. Again, just wishing to set the record straight.
Ed Thomas
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Mr Whitney is accurate, however, in stating that Christian artists that are looking for music have a number of other places to go that are dedicated to that genre of music.
[/quote]
Can you give me some urls to some of those sites?
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I think one reason might simply be that "artists who don't write" are actually pretty rare. I couldn't name one singer of original music who doesn't at least write some of the music himself (or herself). George Strait and quite a few country artists. It's becoming more common for artists on country radio to write or co-write some of their songs, but even Kenny Chesney who writes a lot records songs that aren't his.
Ad astra per alia porci - Steinbeck
(To the stars on the wings of a pig.)
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Not everyone is out to get go to the next level as much as to get takes on what they do.
Not always the same goals apply.
I started out getting inspired to do recordings hammering them out in one sitting.
The few recordings I have done like that on the net are favored over the ones where I was out to expand my horizons, at least in song stats.
Flaws can not be shown as much sitting inside limitations.
But I do not want to be good for what amounts to background music or bleaching, even though I flail with technicals skills and singing the way I would like.
So I am not out to enter a star search.
What's more is that consumate professionals may not consider someone like me a "serious musician" even though I am very serious in what I am out to do.
There are many like me that are not out to collect fan bases or assemble in to a click.
I originally spread myself out on the net through mass consensus because I did not have the time with other obligations to be on the internet constantly.
And it is good having a variety of takes anyway.
But anything involving seekers or teaming seems too much like posing to me.
I want to make my recordings with as much form as I can with my own artistic ambitions and kick out a cd doing that before I even think of what could be seeked.
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Not everyone is out to get go to the next level as much as to get takes on what they do.
Not always the same goals apply.
I started out getting inspired to do recordings hammering them out in one sitting.
The few recordings I have done like that on the net are favored over the ones where I was out to expand my horizons, at least in song stats.
Flaws can not be shown as much sitting inside limitations.
But I do not want to be good for what amounts to background music or bleaching, even though I flail with technicals skills and singing the way I would like.
So I am not out to enter a star search.
What's more is that consumate professionals may not consider someone like me a "serious musician" even though I am very serious in what I am out to do.
There are many like me that are not out to collect fan bases or assemble in to a click.
I originally spread myself out on the net through mass consensus because I did not have the time with other obligations to be on the internet constantly.
And it is good having a variety of takes anyway.
But anything involving seekers or teaming seems too much like posing to me.
I want to make my recordings with as much form as I can with my own artistic ambitions and kick out a cd doing that before I even think of what could be seeked.
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Everett,
In most cases these indie writers can write better than people here, this is an amateur forum, 99 per cent of songs here are awfull, from people who have not learned that art.
Happy Christmas Lamorna
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Lamorna,
This site IS mostly made up of Indie Artists. But we also have others.. you know like Grammy winners.. Oscar winners.. #1 songwriters.. #1 artists.. We also have 1000's of Indie Artists who make their full time living making music. Those folks are generally too busy making a living making music to post on the message boards but they're part of the JPF members here. They come out to Roadtrips Showcases and attend local chapters and send their music in for the music awards. And some of them even post on the message boards. It's nice to hear your opinion of 99% of the talent here. Too bad you have no idea what you're talking about.
Stick around, perhaps you'll actually meet a few more folks and broaden your perspective.
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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Hi Lamorna,
I've just listened to your song 'Southern Fried Chicken' on your website and it's either meant to be some sort of parody, or it's probably the worst song I've ever heard anywhere !!! Either way, it's unbearable to listen to ! You posted an extremely rude reply on here about everyone else's music, but people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, should they ?
Keith
Don't ya just love writing songs
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Hi Lamorna, That is pretty strong language....."99% are just awful" For the most part I let lame, uninformed, ignorant comments like yours go by but just could not in this case. Sure, the truth is that there are some songs posted here that are not that great, in yours and perhaps in anybodies ears and that is the nature of the beast. Everyone, no matter what level they are currently at, is free to post and grow. But 99%.. is just plain WRONG! From a listen and look at your soundclick page I would think you would want to apologize to the members hear. ONE SONG is all you have and it is not that great. You honestly think you can judge 99% of the songwriters on this board based on ONE very mediocre song? And lastly, what the heck does someone from CANADA know about southern cooking? lol No self respecting southerner I know would caught dead eating "sweet potato french fries" and it is not potato... it is tater! You don't know squat! Yankee!!!!!!! 
Last edited by EdThomas; 12/24/08 12:31 PM.
Ed Thomas
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What is said to be the worst sounding or best sounding to me has always been a matter of taste. It has never been as concrete to me as fundamentals of learning time signatures or what should be added or taken out in a verse, chorus, or bridge. Or the fundamentals in home recordings. Those are my 3 main ones I am out to learn.
My definition of myself sounding "bad" would be If something I record is the furthest off from what I had in mind.
But the listener may find that worse sounding for that matter
I am the clearest about how I would like to sound.
Someone telling me about proper phrasing would not tell me anything if their guitar solo is 180 degrees away from how I would play it and get it to sound, for example.
If we were all meant to have one interpretation music would be as inspiring as a computer blip.
Merry Christmas Everyone!
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You all should come up to Alaska and perform with some of these Native performers...time is not thought about. Only if you are backing them up do you heads up so to speak otherwise, forgetit! http://www.pmrmusic.com enjoy!
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not sure why years ago I asked Brian to create a thread for singers searching for songs he declined we occasionally get blurbs here big artists with major labels who don't write songs / search for songs turn to familiar sources: + writers whose songs they've already recorded, and + music publishers with big hits and writers, Writers need to find a way to get their songs heard by someone who has a point of contact with the artist: + the artist + manager, + producer, + label A & R Artists and labels announce song searches on RowFax.com and Songlink.com some writers have gotten cuts through sevices like TAXI think some writers have had success through songu you can try songu at http://SongU.com/ifsfar as I know, no writer ever has gotten a cut through Paramount Many writers get cuts by cowriting with the artist, the producer, and songwriters who have had previous success Many producers and successful songwriters were also pop artists at some point. JPF writer Gregory Watton from LA is playing the game right. He's networking, developed skills and cowriting with artists and producers out in LA. I believe you have to 1) write great songs, 2) produce outstanding radio ready demos, 3) network and develop friendships and contacts in the biz, and 4) have a break through here's whre you can find many excellent articles about writers who are having success http://www.songwriteruniverse.com/magazine.html#poprockcheck out what Kara Dioguardihttp://www.karadioguardi.comhere's her publishing company http://www.arthouseent.comread Kara's blog on myspace hate to say it but most writers who wish for success aren't doing what it takes they 1) aren't writing strong enough songs, 2) their demos aren't good enough 3) they aren't networking and 4) haven't had a break through It takes talent, hard work, money, a major commitment, persistance and a little luck that leads to a break. ande This is a site with a lot of songwriters, how come we don't get a lot more people(singers,artist that don't write) coming here looking for songs to record? I don't expect the major artist to come here, but there must be indie artist that want to record and maybe don't write, unless they prefer to record covers, why don't they come here seeking songs. If they go to publishers they will be offered only bottom drawer songs, here they will be offered top drawer songs. Unless the bottom drawer songs of publishers are better than top songs here, why would they not look here? Maybe they do come here and lurk and listen but never post.
Ande Rasmus sen
Ande R a s m u s s e n@aol.com
Ande R a s m u s s e n.com
SongRamp.com/ande
MySpace.com/anders
Texas Grammy Gov 06-08
grammy.com/Texas
Editor Of "Inspirations for Songwriters"
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Hmm quite interesting Ande,
I hear ya, but stumbled on your remarks on great songs. Who are the people who are doing these value for money judgements about song quality?
No offence, but I'd like to hear the plain folks in here, about a couple Kara Dioguardi's hitsongs?
One is Spinning Around, recorded by Kylie Minouge.
Lyrics from AZlyrics.com:
"Spinning Around"
Spinning around
Oooh-oh
I'm spinning around
Move out of my way
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
I'm breakin' it down
I'm not the same
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
Clearin' this house out of joy that I borrowed
From back in the day
Threw away my old clothes
Got myself a better wardrobe
I got something to say
I'm through with the past
Ain't no point in looking back
The future will be
And did I forget to mention that I found a new direction
And it leads back to me?
I'm spinning around
Move out of my way
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
I'm breakin' it down
I'm not the same
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it
Mistakes that I made givin' me the strength
To really believe
And no matter how I take it
There's no way i'm gonna fake it 'cuz it's gotta be real
I've got nothin' left to hide
No reason left to fight
'Cuz the truth's given me a new freedom inside
Gettin' rid of my desire
Do you like what you see?
I'm spinning around
Move out of my way
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
I'm breakin' it down
I'm not the same
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
Ooh-oh baby, baby, baby
You know you like it like this
Ooh-oh baby, baby, baby
You know you like it like this
Ooh-oh baby, baby, baby
I'm spinning around
Move out of my way
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
I'm breakin' it down
I'm not the same
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
Oh, I'm not the same
You like it like this
Ooh-oh
I'm a little green to decide on the particular qualities of this lyric, and sure the production sound great in Kylies version, but is it really all about measuring up to the qualities of this lyrics and of course the music to it?
Another one from Kara Dioguardi:
Taking Chances recorded by Celine Dion, lyrics from lyricsmode.com:
Don't know much about your life.
Don't know much about your world, but
Don't want to be alone tonight,
On this planet they call earth.
You don't know about my past, and
I don't have a future figured out.
And maybe this is going too fast.
And maybe it's not meant to last,
But what do you say to taking chances,
What do you say to jumping off the edge?
Never knowing if there's solid ground below
Or hand to hold, or hell to pay,
What do you say,
What do you say?
I just want to start again,
And maybe you could show me how to try,
And maybe you could take me in,
Somewhere underneath your skin?
What do you say to taking chances,
What do you say to jumping off the edge?
Never knowing if there's solid ground below
Or hand to hold, or hell to pay,
What do you say,
What do you say?
And I had my heart beaten down,
But I always come back for more, yeah.
There’s nothing like love to pull you up,
When you’re laying down on the floor there.
So talk to me, talk to me,
Like lovers do.
Yeah walk with me, walk with me,
Like lovers do,
Like lovers do.
What do you say to taking chances,
What do you say to jumping off the edge?
Never knowing if there's solid ground below
Or hand to hold, or hell to pay,
What do you say,
What do you say?
Don’t know much about your life
And I don’t know much about your world
I could have used almost any of Kara's hitsongs as an example. Of course the genre (Hot AC or Teen Pop) is a little bit off what most people are doing in here, and I am not trying to put neither you or Kara (no envy, I promise) out on a limb her.
All I am saying, is that I read lyrics of the same quality on a daily basis in here, just aimed at different genres and/or markets if you wish.
Ok, often the music does not add up, certainly not the production, and probably not the network. So could it be that you have deceptively right here - that is the song is only 25% of the size required?
And finally, it could be fun to have a forum where hit lyrics were critiqued by this community, as if they were still in process :-)
Well, just adding some uncensored thoughts here. Please tell me wrong, my convictions are drifting in the wind..
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Hiya Everett! Et al.
I remember when L.A.Songwriter'sShowcase was in full-bloom...& asking John Brahaney why the Writers who'd joined & HAD hits didn't support LASS any better.
"They've moved on" was his reply. Sadly, I've met some of JPF's Grammy Winners at past Awards Shows who've "moved on"...
ANY of these folks COULD lend a "Helping Hand" to the strugglers here...(Some Do..at the Mentor's Crit Forum/"Hats Off" Ya Two-Three Kind Folks.) (But WHY are there UNDER-20 SUBMISSIONS THERE This-Time-A-Round?) ??????????????????????
I'll give Brian credit for NOT braggin' about JPFers who GOT "The Break" via Material that's Been Forwarded from Here.
I'll also extend a "Hats-Off" to Moker for having an Open Pitch recently for Lyrics-for-a-Song-Pitch..for a Major-Enough Artist.
(The 3 "Winners" were very Eye-Opening as to What's Selling these days.) It'd be nice if Some of you MUSICOs'd browse the Lyrics Boards More OFTEN & see if yas might wanna try CO-ing some of What's Always There..at least every Once In A While.
Perhaps ya already do...but if ya don't..might be missin' Something of Interest.
AND..IF it resulted in ONE Major Hit...I'd assume JPF'd be Visited WAY More-Often..(IF "Word Got Out")..by "Bigger Folks."
I don't think "99%" of What's-Here is crappy..yet MOST of what's available IS in the "Improving-but-Not-Quite-THERE" Category..& so what? Most of what I HEAR in Pop/Rap/etc. is TOO..on Terrestrial Radio, anyways. (Thanks SongCab for The Proof!) Country? Better be Top-Drawer or forgetaboutit.
Ande's right about the "Access" Route. JPF's just ONE of many "Routes" to getting a Song OUT There. (The Neat Part is it's NOT "99% Amateurs" pluggin'-away, workin' to Better Our Craft.)
The Reality: ALL those PRO Writers who HAD "Holds" on that Last (I forget Names rapidly/sorry) George Strait-maybe-Alan Jackson CD got NADA, Good-as-they-Are.
LUCK is Improveable...but far from "Perfectable."
Good Luck at this Tough Game, Amigos,
Big Hugs,
Stan
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as a lyricist I hate to write this but very often the least important part of a pop song are the lyrics most important parts are the melody, music, and production we call all cite examples of famous songs with weak lyrics Feliz Navidad, Unchained Melody, everything by KC and the Sunshine Band, people love the songs and they did well in their time Kara might not write songs with lyrics like Townes Van Zandt Celine loved Taking Chances enough to record it and release it as a single, I think she feels like it represented where she was in life. Kara's smart, fast and in demand. Now that she's an idol judge, she'll probably be in even bigger demand.
Hmm quite interesting Ande,
I hear ya, but stumbled on your remarks on great songs.
Who are the people who are doing these value for money judgements about song quality?
No offence, but I'd like to hear the plain folks in here, about a couple Kara Dioguardi's hitsongs?
One is Spinning Around, recorded by Kylie Minouge.
Lyrics from AZlyrics.com:
"Spinning Around"
Spinning around
Oooh-oh
I'm spinning around
Move out of my way
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
I'm breakin' it down
I'm not the same
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
Clearin' this house out of joy that I borrowed
From back in the day
Threw away my old clothes
Got myself a better wardrobe
I got something to say
I'm through with the past
Ain't no point in looking back
The future will be
And did I forget to mention that I found a new direction
And it leads back to me?
I'm spinning around
Move out of my way
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
I'm breakin' it down
I'm not the same
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it
Mistakes that I made givin' me the strength
To really believe
And no matter how I take it
There's no way i'm gonna fake it 'cuz it's gotta be real
I've got nothin' left to hide
No reason left to fight
'Cuz the truth's given me a new freedom inside
Gettin' rid of my desire
Do you like what you see?
I'm spinning around
Move out of my way
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
I'm breakin' it down
I'm not the same
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
Ooh-oh baby, baby, baby
You know you like it like this
Ooh-oh baby, baby, baby
You know you like it like this
Ooh-oh baby, baby, baby
I'm spinning around
Move out of my way
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
I'm breakin' it down
I'm not the same
I know you're feelin' me 'cuz you like it like this
Oh, I'm not the same
You like it like this
Ooh-oh
I'm a little green to decide on the particular qualities of this lyric, and sure the production sound great in Kylies version, but is it really all about measuring up to the qualities of this lyrics and of course the music to it?
Another one from Kara Dioguardi:
Taking Chances recorded by Celine Dion, lyrics from lyricsmode.com:
Don't know much about your life.
Don't know much about your world, but
Don't want to be alone tonight,
On this planet they call earth.
You don't know about my past, and
I don't have a future figured out.
And maybe this is going too fast.
And maybe it's not meant to last,
But what do you say to taking chances,
What do you say to jumping off the edge?
Never knowing if there's solid ground below
Or hand to hold, or hell to pay,
What do you say,
What do you say?
I just want to start again,
And maybe you could show me how to try,
And maybe you could take me in,
Somewhere underneath your skin?
What do you say to taking chances,
What do you say to jumping off the edge?
Never knowing if there's solid ground below
Or hand to hold, or hell to pay,
What do you say,
What do you say?
And I had my heart beaten down,
But I always come back for more, yeah.
There’s nothing like love to pull you up,
When you’re laying down on the floor there.
So talk to me, talk to me,
Like lovers do.
Yeah walk with me, walk with me,
Like lovers do,
Like lovers do.
What do you say to taking chances,
What do you say to jumping off the edge?
Never knowing if there's solid ground below
Or hand to hold, or hell to pay,
What do you say,
What do you say?
Don’t know much about your life
And I don’t know much about your world
I could have used almost any of Kara's hitsongs as an example. Of course the genre (Hot AC or Teen Pop) is a little bit off what most people are doing in here, and I am not trying to put neither you or Kara (no envy, I promise) out on a limb her.
All I am saying, is that I read lyrics of the same quality on a daily basis in here, just aimed at different genres and/or markets if you wish.
Ok, often the music does not add up, certainly not the production, and probably not the network. So could it be that you have deceptively right here - that is the song is only 25% of the size required?
And finally, it could be fun to have a forum where hit lyrics were critiqued by this community, as if they were still in process :-)
Well, just adding some uncensored thoughts here. Please tell me wrong, my convictions are drifting in the wind..
Ande Rasmus sen
Ande R a s m u s s e n@aol.com
Ande R a s m u s s e n.com
SongRamp.com/ande
MySpace.com/anders
Texas Grammy Gov 06-08
grammy.com/Texas
Editor Of "Inspirations for Songwriters"
SongWriterBlog.com
Explore the message archive
To receive IFS
SEND an EMPTY email to:
difs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806 |
Believe me...some of the pros DO peruse these boards. The first week Dawg and I were in Nashville...we were interviewed by a well known publisher for staff writing work. He said he had read our lyrics here...and then went on to state without any apology that he came to JPF frequently just to look for song concepts that he could then rewrite!! We couldn't get out of his office fast enough!! What a pariah. But it was a very revealing moment for us...and a real loss of innocence (yeah, I know Dawg didn't have a lotta that to lose.. ) One of the most interesting experiences for me has been participating in the monthly NSAI song pitch sessions. Here in Nashville..that means about 80 people crammed into one small room for the chance to actually PITCH one song (verse and chorus only) to the publisher or PR person of the month. After listening to these pitch sessions month after month...I can vouch for the fact there there are VERY few killer songs being written by anyone. Most folks trying to pitch aren't even mediocre...and they don't seem to even know that. You have to know where the bar is set before you are going to get signed to anything or get a song actually cut. I was particularly interested in the comment about Alan Jackson and his 200 holds. It is only my personal opinion...but Alan is a good example of what happens here in Nashville. He's achieved such status that he can do pretty much whatever he wants to...but rarely does Alan himself write a killer song. If you listen to his recent material, it is very simplistic, many repeats of most of the lines...with no real substance. HOWEVER...on occasion, even Alan will write that KILLER song like WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE WORLD STOPPED TURNING. But people love Alan...so even his mediocre stuff gets listened to. Kenny Chesney, on the other hand, is a good writer..but one who is smart enough to grab onto killer songs written by others when he hears one he knows he can make into a hit. I love his recent one...Everybody Wanna Go To Heaven (But Nobody Wanna Go Now). I don't yet know who wrote that song...but the lyric and the melody just seem to work (at least for me they do). Love the video also. Again...others may disagree...but as I said, that is my opinion. I am glad there is diversity here. Happy Holidays to all... Bobbie
They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you. Gallup 'n Dawg Music
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"Stop the process I call 'waiting to live.' This is the worst type of procrastination, because there will always be another 'reason to wait' lurking ahead. Once you are in this rut, it is nearly impossible to get out of it. Instead, adopt a 'Live as you Go' mentality." -Brian Austin Whitney
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