JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum So Where Does Your Song Rank On Ourstage?

Ben,
Brian's theory makes more sense than the spam theory. I went back and checked on the artists in question and none of them had more than four fans, none of them asked to be my friend and none of them had more than six 'favorites'. Basically, they just added my song to their favorites list.

On myspace, I don't accept just any friend request and as soon as I see any spam, I will block them and delete them from my list. Haven't got any porn requests as of yet, how did you get so lucky?

I think Brian is right about the younger folks being less discriminate about music genres and styles. I do not know for a fact that it is for the reasons he gave; but I have no reason to doubt him. His explanation makes sense to me.

I have my son's iPod here with me. He is 39 years old. Here are twenty artists in sequence:

1 - Maroon 5
2 - CDB (Charlie Daniels Band)
3 - CCR
4 - Bruce Springsteen
5 - Norah Jones
6 - Diamond Rio
7 - Heartland
8 - Brice Springsteen
9 - Willie Nelson
10 - Me!!!! (Al David)
11 - Norah Jones
12 - Phil Collins
13 - Brad Paisely
14 - Tim McGraw
15 - Martina McBride
16 - Martina McBride
17 - Me Again (Woo Hoo!!!)
18 - Meatloaf
19 - Alabama
20 - Foreigner

So, if that is any indication, it lends some validity to Brian's assertion. I am much the same way. I like a great majority of the the major genres in music. I grew up listening to and playing nothing but Country music. It is probably my fovorite; but I like a lot of the other stuff that's out there. I could listen to Steve Tyrell and Diana Krall all day...sometimes do! If you would choose to do so, you could go to my OurStage page and look at my favorites. There are 6 or 8 different genres there.

I'll stay out of the My Space debate. Go there if you like it; don't go there if you don't.

Just my nickel's worth.

Alan

So where do my songs rank ?

Currently.....

4th in Electronica
12th in Instrumental
165th in Blues
311th in Indie Pop

No fan email lists, ( actually no fan base that I'm aware of) , no bulk mail outs or advertising. Heck, I don't even own a mobile phone.

What does it all mean ? Beats me, I'll figure that one out next week. To anyone that has voted positively, thanks. ( I'll give you the hard sell if the first two progress any further LOL )

cheers, niteshift

Rivertown is 164th (out of 1,026)in Singer/Songwriter (Male)

Lonely Man is 370th (out of 574)in Contemporary/Soft Rock

And I was going to enter my "Do You Want to Dance" cover, but from what I read, that catagory seems to be only for folks who only do covers. Did anyone else get that impression?

Same here.....

Actually, if someone told me a year or two ago that any song that I was playing and singing on would finish in the top 6th of anything, I'd have laughed silly....

I'm beginning to look at this as a great way to experiment - change things and see what works.....

By the way, I agree with all of you that suggested that we are not the best judges of our own work....still another good reason to participate....

Scott

Truer words were never spoken.

If you wanna know how good my songs are just ask me...
Better yet

ASK MY MOMMA!!!!!

LOL. Them Ourstage judges sure are fickle. The best song IMHO in cover bands which has held the top position for most of the month all of a sudden has crashed out of the top ten. The songs currently at the top positions IMHO should not have even been in the top twenty. I hope this situation changes before the semis.

Hey Jim,

Nope, they're not fickle. They just saw you, and ran screaming from the room.

I'm currently playing yoyo's, every position between 4th and 20th.

cheers, niteshift

I have been yo yoing since the start of the Q/fs. LOL

Hey maybe we could write a song about it. Enter it into the Eurovision. Well it could not be any worse than the rubbish on Saturday night. I normally have a laugh at the Eurovision. But it has gone even beyond that. Cheeky Cheeky... they have a cheek!

I haven't seen it yet Jim, but have seen the press reports. Sounds like the show that everyone likes to hate, and gets great ratings along the way. Them Germans are not impressed, so I hear.

Mien Got !, time for zzz's . Catcha if I'm still floating face up in the morning.

cheers, niteshift

I got another MySpace friend request today pointing to a porn and/or dating site. That's three this week.
I also got an e-mail on my web site from a nice lady saying "Your life is crap". At least I have one fan. Ben

I got a couple questions regarding this site. I checked it out, but couldn't really come away satisfied after reading the Faqs or the terms of condition.

Firstly, if you place a song on that site, do you lose the right to play it when and where you want? I saw kind of contradictory statements on that subject, though I might have misunderstood.

Secondly, is the service free? I was told its free signup, but does it cost to actually upload the songs, or anything? Again, I searched....but I may have just been temporarily blind.

And the current rankings are....

"Alienlandscape" by niteshift is floating face down in the water at No 11 in Electronica and needs reviving

"Synthetic Salsa Blue" by niteshift is tempting the taste buds at No 6 in Instrumental

"The Letter" by Big Jim has been posted by snail mail, sitting at No 16 in Covers, but through rain, snow and sleet in the dark of night, it will be delivered

"Follow Your Dreams" by Tammy Edwards is following the path upward at No 14 in country

"Avalon" by Jillian Golden is the apple of eveyone's isles at No 2 in New Age, while "The Winds of Change" has a storm brewing in Contemporary/Soft Rock at No 18

and finally, a new day is dawning in New Age with Michael Borges taking the No 4 spot with "New Every Morning".

Did I forget anyone? Best of luck folks..........

cheers, niteshift

Ourstage is completely free to use. There are no hidden charges or catches. The song and all its rights remains the property of the user and there are no strings attached. So no fears on any of your worries.

I have been thinking about this all weekend. I feel that I WAS hasty in my decision to step back from "OurStage" and am ready to "Eat Crow".
Brian can write the reasons why we should support them until he's blue in the face and some of us still won't listen.
Here is why I changed my mind. I have been a part of JPF for a couple of years now. I come to this site every day and have made who I consider "Real" friends even though I have never met anyone. I believe that this organisation is truly "Grassroots" and have been able to have my music listened to by others who are more discriminating then the average music fan which gives you a more honest assessment of what you are offering. MySpace doesn't do that. OurStage probably does that in a way because you are being judged by other writers and musicians along with the regular fans.
The most important reason that I changed my mind is that OurStage is a JPF sponsor. Daniel has posted answers to questions. I don't believe that this "Tom" guy from MySpace has ever done that. Daniel even commented on one of my songs.
MySpace is looking phonier to me every day. I may drop them if I keep getting Spammy friend requests.
After my hasty retreat from OurStage, I began thinking about what I did and reread this whole thread. I will reenter my song "The Rainmaker" in the Americana contest for June. Ben

Ben,

May I compliment you? Not necessarily for deciding to go back to OurStage, per se. I do think that they may be the best site of that type. I am not sure what all the negative hype is about My Space, other than the aforementioned arbitrary friends requests. There is, apparently, something going on there regarding Indie artists that I am not aware of. So, I cannot comment intelligently on that. I'll have to look at that.

However, what I wanted to compliment you on was the fact that it is difficult for most folks to do an intelligent reevaluation of a position they have taken on any issue and then decide reconsider that position after looking through the information they have. When someone makes a public statement on a position they hold about anything important and then publicly say that they have changed their position after further evaluation, that says a lot about their character.

I don't call it eating crow. I call it simply exercising your rational judgment, as you see it, and responding to it accordingly. As I said, it's not that you decided to to reenter the OurStage arena that I compliment...it is that you are bold enough to say, publicly, that you are willing to to reconsider your position. Not a lot of folks would do that...particularly in a public forum. My hat is off to you!

Good luck with your song next month.

Alan

+1 on Ben's character.

It's not common for people to share their own thoughts and decisions that way, or to ever admit they've changed their mind about something after some consideration...it takes a certain kind of strength to do that, and when you do it publicly it ends up teaching other people something valuable.

Hi Ben I agree with Al there is no weakness in changing opinions or reconsidering options. In fact it shows strength of character through a willingness to rationalise.

He's a waffler. A flip-flopper.

I am not sure I understand all this hate for Myspace.

I am trying to figure out why a friend request from a total stranger is better on Ourstage than it is on Myspace. On one it's spam on the other it isn't?
On Myspace I get friend requests from fans, non musicians. Are there any non musicians on Ourstage?

Brian, would you care to share with us who this person is who has 50,000 friends yet cannot sell a single CD. I might go buy one just to try to help the poor guy out, LOL.

I don't think I have had more than two "Spam from Porn sites" in the couple years I have been there.
I don't solicit friends or listeners but my songs get played. Not a thousand plays a day. Just a few a day. But they are playing my songs. I am usually listed in the Top 100 in my home State Michigan. More often than not in the top 50.

Why is that a bad thing? What is it that Myspace is doing to me that is so terrible? They don't ask me for money, I don't get spam E-mail from them, And I have never been solicited for anything.
I get more plays of my songs than Ourstage, Soundclick, and JPFolks combined. If I post and solicit a song on JPFolks I will get listens for a few days, same with Soundclick. I use to get more plays on soundclick when I was active on the boards.I had more plays yesterday on Myspace than I have in the last week from the others combined. And I never solicit for plays or fans.
Why is that a bad thing?

And can someone explain for me why Ourstage has sub Genres for rock, metal, and Rap but none for country. They lump all Country under one channel. Traditional, Southern Rock, Classic, Modern, bluegrass, etc. Why is that?

Thanks guys. accolades were the last thing on my mind. I believe that things that I or anyone else write can influence other people. If we write irrational or negative things, especially concerning a third party, it can have a domino effect and people begin taking sides. I don't want to be responsible for that. The best thing that I can do is look at the good compared to the bad and reevaluate accordingly. The good out weighs the bad in this case. Ben

Hi Bill.

"And can someone explain for me why Ourstage has sub Genres for rock, metal, and Rap but none for country. They lump all Country under one channel. Traditional, Southern Rock, Classic, Modern, bluegrass, etc. Why is that?"

I am very interested in seeing the answer to that question myself. Another question I have is that what can be done to stop all those off topic songs that keep appearing on different categories? Every time I judge a category it seems full of stuff totally inappropriate to that category. Makes a fool of the whole idea of having categories.

Post deleted by TAMERA64

I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but here's 2 big points on MySpace.

1. The "friends" thing on there has become a waste of time. If people really invited people they have any knowledged of or interest in to become "friends" then it might be relevent. But what actually has happened on MySpace is that most people simply are collecting #'s rather than real people they have a connection to. They want to increase that "friends" number in any way they can simply for the sake of doing it. It's a status thing. A lot of people think is means something to have a larger number. It doesn't. It DOES mean something if you have a number that actually represents people you've met, people you've formed an ACTUAL friendship with and people who might actually have an interest in your music. That applies often to people with low numbers of friends... but those who simply go about trying to hoard numbers from strangers are being dishonest and inflating their popularity for bogus reasons. The number isn't important.. the real people behind them and how you form real relationships does. MySpace teaches kids and adults alike the opposite lesson and it's damaging to the artist community to keep the false facade of that myth alive. Even Bill is clamoring to know who has the 50K members, when he REALLY should have been curios as to who the person with 1000 friends who sells CD's and gets people out to shows is.. then he might learn something useful. (Sorry Bill.. but you took the bait hook line and sinker and made my point perfectly).

2. MySpace is simply a mega corporation (owned by Rupert Murdoch) who is collecting data and hits to sell to advertisers. That's their entire model. They use music as a free lure to get people to use the site and they pay ZERO to anyone in return. Sure, some people have been able to use the site to promote what they do, no question. But that is simply an accidental by product, not the intent of the site or company. Ourspace would also like to increase traffic and numbers. They are focused solely on the music as a method to build the community and they are offering real life tangible benefits all along the way to the artists involved for their participation and help in doing it. It's a partnership where the more you use it, the more value you get out of it and the more value they continue to put into the system. It goes beyond just the cash they pay out. They are building relationships with venues and promotors to book talent. They are working with experts to offer mentoring sessions. They are engaging directly with the artists themselves regularly to improve the site and find more ways to make it mutually beneficial to both parties. MySpace has never and will never do that for the indie artists. When they finally decided to break off and become a stand alone entity for the music portion of MySpace.. did they come to the artists who helped build it with their music and fans to get them involved? No. They pissed in our faces and went instead to the Major labels who have always shunned them and gave them part ownership and let them set up all the rules to benefit themselve and excluded the entire base of users from the process. Now, at best, the community will get a few table scraps of benefit solely as a by product while the majors use the site and cash in.

I think MySpace and Ourstage are about as different of their pathway to get to the same place as is possible.

Brian

Thanks Ben.. I appreciate you posting that. Info like this comes up in search engines and there's a lot of value for folks to DO change their mind to say so to include that in the record of the discussion. Often folks leave the negative without the corresponding positive and people coming in from outside only see that and are influenced by it. Hopefully they'll read the entire thread and see your thought process and it will help them make an informed decision themselves.

Brian

Niteshift,
Very nice... thanks for the update!
Let's see what happends this Thursday when we head
into the semi-finals!

Cheers,
Michael

Sod'S law Tammy LOL

I would like to see an audition. Each song submitted for a competition category should meet certain minimum criteria.

1. The song should be recorded to a certain minimum standard.

2. It should be relevant for that category.

3. The performance IE vocals and playing should be up to a certain standard.

This would weed out the unlistenable stuff. There is a fair share of it about and it would discourage the JOKERS.

Big Jim,

Where the problem comes in for a review or criteria for acceptance is that that process, too, is purely subjective. As an example, I think Kris Kristoferson is one of the most talented lyricists we have ever seen. He rates very high in my book. At the same time, I would pass a law that says he should never be able to get within half a mile of a micrphone. I know that a lot of folks like that rough, slightly off-pitch voice. I cannot stand it. So, using my criteria, Kris could never have a song on OurStage. That would be unfortunate. And, I am sure that there are vocalists whom I like a lot thast other folks think are horrible. So, there really is no way to take the subjectivity out of it. And I am sure that they are not going to have a panel of 5 or 6 folks review every one of the several thousands songs submitted each month and take a majority vote for acceptance. That would be virtually impossible. I think that we just have to accept that there is going to be stuff that we, as individuals, would call pure trash and unworthy that other folks think are fine examples of music. It's a noble idea; but it simply isn't possible to do.

I have a couple of reservations about the way I preceive that some things are handled at OurStage. But, I still think that it is the best site of its type out there. I'll give them an opportunity to smooth things out for a few months. if some of my concerns appear to assauged down the road, I'll continue to participate. If not, I'll reevaluate whether or not I want to continue participation. I am not expecting everything to be to my liking. That isn't going to happen. But, there are some changes I am hoping will evolve in time to maintain my interest in their site. As I said, I'll give them some time before I reevaluate. A couple of my concerns have already been addressed to Daniel. I'll see how that plays out. The political machines at the site are probably more difficult to adjust than the technical gear.

Good thought, Jim. But, I don't think that it is possible. All the best to ya!

Alan

Thanks for the speedy reply Big Jim. Much appreciated.

Hey Big Jim
My vote musta helped. you are at number 4...woohooo

It must be them lovely curly locks.

Jim & anyone that's getting into the top 10, good going!
I'll take some time later this week during the semi-finals to vote in categories that I haven't entered for this month. Actually, right now I still have a good chance of getting into the semi-finals for my song "New Every Morning" in New Age/World channel. I'll be able to vote for the rest of you in whatever channels you're in! I'll never know if you voted for my song, but if you did, just let me know... it'd be nice to hear!

Looks like we're going to earn some achievment awards this month!

All the best,
Michael

I didn't know that Big Jim worked the grill at a breakfast bar!

Hey Guys, listen up !

I overlooked Ernest Whaley, who is at No 16 in Soulfest with "Children".

http://www.ourstage.com/fanclub/ernestwhaley

Sorry Ernest, you must have slipped under the radar.

cheers, niteshift

Well, got my very first spam "comment" from somebody named Honey Brown on Ourstage. Is there anyway to turn off posting direct links in the comments?

Honey Brown is a real artist. In fact, she's a JPF member and previous awards nominee. What did she spam you with?

Brian

As of right now, my song "Avalon" is 3rd in New Age/World. The collaboration with Andrew (zircon), "The Winds of Change," is 18th in Contemporary/Soft Rock.

Lots of great songs out there this month! I'm enjoying listening to entries from JPF peeps.

See I told you there was some weird voting. LOL

I have been almost every position between 4 and 18.
My thanks to all who voted for my song. But please vote honestly for the song you genuinely think is best.
JPF's reputation may be at stake if we just vote for our own.

I was thinking that too Jim, but I don't think a few votes coming from JPF folks ( although they are very much appreciated ! ) will make a great deal of difference. There's whole armies of street teamers out there who are rallying the troops. I'm not so sure if it will get them anywhere. I would like to think that the songs will stand on their own merit.

As I said before, I have no email lists or fan base, so am surprised at the results.

It's good to see your song up there, I'd go and vote for it, but am too scared I might fall for your picture ! :/

The standard is exceptionally high in the genres I have been listening too, both in terms of compostion, production and muscianship, with only the odd dud song which is, um, a little out of place, so I look foward to the semi's.

The semi's will be VERY intersting. I hope a few of us get through to keep the interest alive.

PS - to anyone who may have thrown a vote at "Alienlandscape", thank you ! It has revived itself to
No 2 and is floating face up, having a bit of a rest from the rough seas. Well, for now anyways......

cheers, niteshift

Brian,
I agree that she is a real and talented artist. But on the comment she left, all that was there was:

http://www.t2000ultra.com/?rid=43790

Uh oh... It sounds like she may have been phished. That's not good - does anyone know her email address?

Jillian,

That's exactly what it appears to be. It happened to me on <My Space once. jack Swain, and couple of other folks, were receiving a lot of crap about cell phone...sent from my account. We reregistered my account and I've had no problem for 6 or 8 months. But the the damage is that once you are perceived as a spammer, even though it really wasn't you, your professional rep takes a big hit that is very, very difficult to repair. Hopefully, mostly for her, she will get this rectified soon.

Alan

Alan: yes, it's a terrible thing. I think I too may have been phished on MySpace, and that' what caused my old account (/jilliangoldin) to lose all its content. I received an angry PM from someone I'd never met in my life, so it seems as though someone had taken over and abused the account.

In other news, the semifinals have officially begun. Less than 48 hours left! Who here has made it into the Top 10? Michael Borges and I are both there in New Age/World.

Hey Jillian,

Yep, I wandered over to New Age today to have a listen, and cast a vote, and the first 2 songs out of the barrel where yourself and Michael ! I beat a hasty retreat, cos I'm too scared, LOL. I'll go back this evening, but if the same combination comes up, you guys will have to be content with the "same" button.

I just scraped in to Electronica, and Instrumental, so we'll see how the next 48 hrs go. One's going good, the other not so good, but I reckon a lot can change in that time.

Best of luck folks !

cheers, niteshift

Well overnight my song has bounced down 12 places and so have other songs that were at the top for most of the month. Looks like tactical voting to me. The two songs voted best songs for most of the month ar not even in the top ten now.

Know how you feel Jim. I was doing OK, but now have a lead weight tied to both ankles, on account that I have 2 songs, ( that's one for each ankle ) which are sinking without a trace. I'd call in the cavelry if I had one, except I don't know if they have horses which can swim, and also do mouth to mouth at the same time. Perhaps tomorrow will be a different story. Of course, if I had your ugly mug up there as my graphic, I'd be going great ! Ha !

cheers, niteshift

Greetings....all from Canada ..in the top 10 this month in the Jvc Jazz...look for Zack in the Box
http://www.ourstage.com/fanclub/geofflapptrio

and Yo Bo in jazz genre. .No.45
http://www.ourstage.com/entry/FDEFMZESGUPE-yo-bro-geoff-lapp-trio


The trio has been in the Top Ten since April.


Cheers
Lorraine
www.geofflapp.com

http://thejazznetwork.ning.com/profile/GeoffLappTrio http://thejazznetwork.ning.com/profile/GeoffLappTrio

Hey Jazz,

Welcome ! Cool stuff to make it in the top 10 in jazz. Very difficult field. Best of luck to ya !

cheers, niteshift

I'm currently judging in a variety of genres on OurStage. The New Age/World and Instrumental categories are both strong. Pop has about 3 or 4 songs that could go radio. Some genres though are weak(IMO). I have had numerous battles with JPFers(my votes are classified info)- some head to head. I think the Instrumental category seems to be determined by one's instrument preference. If the arrangement and performance are both top notch, it would seem the the featured instrument would be the hot button. Best wishes.

My song, "Avalon" has made it to the music finals! If anyone will be voting, I'd be grateful if you'd keep your eyes peeled for me.

I quickly scanned the winners and saw at least a half dozen JPFers. I don't have time to go through all of them though (been working 20+ hours the last several days getting ready for the trip). Good luck to all of you and I hope a JPFer makes it 3 months in a row!

Brian