JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum Let's Say Goodbye (studio demo)

I just recorded this one today at Watchmen Studios. My singer cancelled at the last minute, so I had to call on an emercency substitute...me. (Thank God for Melodyne!) Any feedback is appreciated.

Let's Say Goodbye
©2008 Mark Schuessler

VERSE
You're bleeding tears on the bed
I come inside
Have I heard one word you've said?
You know I've tried

LIFT
Cold, angry silence again and again
Talking, then talking some more
What's left to say that we haven't said ten times before?

CHORUS
Let's say goodbye
Don't need to make
Promises we'll just break
Let's say goodbye
You've got to know
This ended long ago
Love has run dry
So cry your last cry
And let's say goodbye

VERSE
I used to watch you at night
As you undressed
You used to sleep curled in tight
Head on my chest

LIFT
Short nights together and long days apart
That was the way it seemed then
Those days have ended and they're never starting again

REPEAT CHORUS

BRIDGE
We thought this would
Last forever
Thought we'd never
See it fade away
But here we are

REPEAT CHORUS

Mark,

I really like this. It's my kind of melody line. And I'm very big on harmonies and I like the ones you've placed in here. For things like this I'm partial to acoustic guitar, but your track works fine if that's the sound you were looking for. It's all preference.

Nice job,

Yes Yes Yes - Sweet!!!!

Really feeling it now Mark, catchy & flowing and feeling like a radio hit

I like Brandon alot, but you definlity without a question fit the song better vocally.
His style is too soft, the song is soft enough and you hit that nice middle. It needed a little bite somewhere yet still keep its emotion and soft passionate side. Perfect!

The chorus is really good, and I loved the new bridge... very cool meter in the first half. Harmonies were great, the second verse was excellent lyrically.

All the parts had hooks, all the lyrics were on the mark and not forced.

Cold, angry silence again and again
Talking, then talking some more
What's left to say that we haven't said ten times before?

That is a perfect pre-chorus!

The demo had power and body & sounded good. The bass work was nice as well as the guitars especially in the background, great lead hook there... love the 6/4 feel. I would have tore the drums up on this track major

I really liked it Mark and I was singing right along, this is one of those songs I love to produce with all buit in hooks and a great feel.

Way to go Pal.... I'm excited and feel great for you on this..

I had a killer add lib vocal idea for the ending, for that one more chorus and some of that the lead could sit behind the chorus....

Hope you made an instrumental mix as well, feel free to email me an instrumental version I could lay off that vocal idea for a future slightly alternate version for you,
and I'll throw that lead guitar in there as well.

Oh and that would be FREE OF CHARGE! people who participate in my contest and of course are cool get special treatment.. Its a Bias Industry Right? LOL...

Mark,

Way to come through with an on the spot vocal! Maybe the way to do it, huh? You have a good sound for this song. If you can go back,,,,,think about doing it again, (YOU still), and bring even more passion and feeling to the lines, now that you did that take, or takes. Emphasize the key words of communicating this song's message that it has. You did really good as is,,,,,so imagine even better!!!!

Is the guitar really needed throughout the whole song? Sounds like not to me. The melody of the song is having to compete with the guitar. Some key hooks would be good though. Less IS more in this case, I feel.

If the hit-hat and the acoustic guitar could come up in the mix, they would give this more of a moving beat, while keeping the feel flowing.
I like this overall though. Would just love to hear it tweaked!

YOU keep singing it!

John

Yipee, Mark, I love it, Wow, I am so excited for you. What a singer, you didn't need someone else to sing it for you. Cool. My style of music, you are hit with me.


Michele
Aussie girl from down under

Mark,

This is a very well crafted lyric. The only glitch for me was; I wanted to sing "Promises we're gonna break" in the chorus. Not really sure what it is but the way you phrase it just doesn't flow as smoothly for me. That is a minor snag. other than that I loved it.

Wayne

I thought it was good overall melody and lyrics. One part of the production bothered me. The guitar that carried a riff throughout seemed to be fighting against the song. It seemed to come in indiscriminately and by the end of the song I was just wishing it would go away. It didn't have a very good tone anyway. Am I the only one hearing that?

I thought the vocal was a good match for the song. If I heard the song in a movie about a breakup, I think it would fit right in. Playing the devils advocate, I don't think the song is ambitious enough or edgy enough to be a single. Still, well done.

Hey Mark,

What a well written and solid piece of songwriting. I won't comment on the lyrics/melody any further, as I think they're spot on, as well as the vocal delivery.

This song is crying out for dynamics and overall presentation.

Suggestions would be.....

Lighten up on the lead, perhaps only to give a lift here and there. Probably only at the end of a phrase.

Drums are dead, and need replacing to give foward momentum, mood and dynamics.

B/v's could be more emphasised to complete phrasing.

Acoustic could be given more tops, and again it will move things along.

A light string line would help the harmonics.

Piano line is a little clunky, maybe take it to a higher inversion, or use a brighter patch.

All in all a really good wite, and really worthwhile working up further.

cheers, niteshift

Hi Mark

I'm telling you this is a real beaut! The suggestions everyone are making are all excellent.

John makes excellent points and a huge one is that hi-hat...

Wow! Yes, Yes, Yes what a gift from Wayne and he rapped it up to lol....

That phrase was bothering me as well, I do like the second one "This ended long ago" At the ending a double chorus should be added and I would sing
"This ended so long ago"

Nice Wayne!

Hi again lol...

Samual & Nite have great suggestions...

The guitar is not great but I LOVE that it's there instead of not. The sound could be better, this reminds me of my buddy and me.. we used to have guitar like this same sound bascially as well, in the background of all our tunes

I love the ideas and that you are being so musical it's just more hooks on top of hooks. Pick the spots and edit it a little bit and your set. I don't know if a new sound or replaying it is feasible at this point for you.

Nite - is right what he's bacially saying is the song really merrits all those good suggestions. He can tell like I can this is something special and wants to do it justice.

Okay - Sorry to butt in so much on your replys, but I thought with these very direct opinions and suggestions you might need a second opinion like asking a band member lol... "well there all good"

I won't let up on you on this one Mark it's a winner bro. I can easily hear it being played every 40 minutes in every kind of office in every city in the country, on a lite FM station.. TOTALLY!

We wanna see you do good and we're proud of you. I know I am.

So What do you think of that?

Wow...that was real good...you don't need any suggs from here...I'm just a listener listening and enjoying...good job!!

Mark,

I think a few people here are smelling the making of what could be a hit song.

Even if it is not a chart hit, it is still a GREAT song. Well done, give yourself a pat on the back.

Wayne

Enjoyed listening to this. Good luck with it.
Lloyd

Hi Mark,

I really like this. It's different. You keep it on the soft side and that's nice but I think you could go stronger vocally and instrumentally especially towards the end to give contrast. Don't discount your voice Mark. I also like Brandon's voice very much but your voice works very well here. I agree about more drama in the voice to punctuate certain parts. A few thoughts..

1. "Cold angry silence" and "talking again and again" seem to conflict (you can't have silence and talking and talking) so how about in your first lift a possible idea w/the exact number of syllables for metering be:

"cold conversation" to replace cold angry silence

2. Seems like you could add one word/beat/syllable in the Chorus in two spots to fill in an awkwardness of something missing and without any difficulty. My suggestions are in paranthesis ().

You have:

CHORUS
Let's say goodbye
Don't need to make
Promises we'll just break (Promises destined to break)
Let's say goodbye
You've got to know
This ended long ago (this ended so long ago) or (this ended long long ago)
Love has run dry
So cry your last cry
And let's say goodbye

My suggestions give those lines 7 syllables each and fill in what I feel is something missing there.

3. In think in the bridge and last chorus you can begin to add more passion and in the last part (not the first part) of the final chorus come out stronger vocally and instrumentally especially w/some stronger guitar.

Very good work Mark!

Best,
Lynn

Mike F:

Thanks for your comments. This song started out on the acoustic guitar...everything else just kept piling on! I do think the acoustic gets drowned out a bit in the final mix. I'm not sure if this was the best way to do this song, but I'm happy with the result...but it could definitely be improved.

Mark

Sub:

Thanks so much for your encouragement and advice. I was really uncomfortable with my vocals...even after Doug @ Watchmen's fixed the pitch, I still almost didn't post this. But I wanted to get feedback, so...I've got to admit I feel a lot better about it now.

I really focused on getting some hooks into this one. You've been drilling that into us pretty good! Same thing with lyrics. I'm trying to push myself to produce something better...trying to get better at it.

Sub, I'd love to send you what I've got and hear your ideas. I've got two CDs (other than the audio CDs), an Unmastered Mix CD and a Data CD. Doug patiently explained exactly what they were and within 5 minutes I forgot. I can send you a copy of one of those, or maybe I can just read the data into CuBase LE and export an audio mix without vocals. Let me know what's the best way to do it.

Thanks, man.

Mark

Hi Mark

I'm glad your pumped you should be.... I been singing this in my head all day.

If you have a CD of the tracks separated that would be best. Maybe that's what the data CD is. Ask Doug if he has the wav files on CD he can give you. Also get a click track metronome track from him as well with those files.

You can PM me and send that CD to me by mail. In the mean time if you have or can make just and instrumental mix of the song email me that mp3.

Yes I was trying to drill that in with our song contest, now where were these kinda melodies & hooks on my tune buddy??? lol

Only kidding!

Yes send me the files, if I feel some what healthy/strong one day or night who knows what I might do to this

John:

Thanks for your encouragement on my vocals. I told Doug I just wanted to get the vocals down just as a guide for a real singer later. But after I sang the first verse he thought it was sounding OK. I'm still thinking my singing career is over, but I'll be less uncomfortable if I ever have to do it again.

I was pretty excited about the lead guitar part, but it didn't come out as well as I hoped. I was aiming for some Clapton-style licks, but I've only played the electric guitar for a couple months now. Taking some out is an easy enough change. I think one problem with it is the tone, though.

Thanks for the tips on the mix. I could definitely hear the acoustic guitar up more in the mix!

Mark

Michele:

Thanks for stopping in and sharing your comments! This is such an encouraging thread. I checked in here quickly this morning from work to see if there was any feedback on this one yet, and I read with amazement the positive comments...about the vocals. I met my wife for lunch today, and when I told her that my vocals didn't go over too badly she rolled here eyes and said, Yeah, right. (She's heard my singing without Melodyne.)

Mark

Wayne:

Thanks for listening.

I think I originally had "Promises we're going to break" in the chorus, but I was trying to get a little more breathing room into the chorus. That line felt awkward to me, too...I wasn't able to find a way to sing it smoothly.

Mark

Samuel (joe):

Thanks for your comments on the song.

OK, here's what happened with that lead guitar part. It was the last thing we recorded. I'm not used to playing and listening that long, so I was really just trying to stay on time and bend notes to pitch. We were using a Fender DeVille (I think.) The tone was a lot cleaner, but Doug was hearing something funny. We switched guitars but the weird vibration (or whatever, I couldn't tell) was still there, so we switched to an Orange (I think) amp. I think that changed the tone a lot, but I wasn't paying attention. It wasn't until he did the final mix that I noticed it, but by then it was too late to re-record that part.

So you aren't the only one hearing that. I'm hearing it, too...and cringing. If I update anything on this, I want to re-do that part. I'd love to have a better tone for that part.

Thanks for your comments (and honesty.)

Mark

Nite:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the production. All great ideas. I had thought about trying to develop a string part, but the mix was sounding pretty full.

I'm just starting to learn about arranging and producing, so I really appreciate your comments.

Mark

Sub:

Thanks for checking back in here. It means a lot that you think this song is a winner. And thanks for your thoughts about the guitar...I wish I had gotten a better sound for it.

I didn't know what to expect from this song (I just finished the lyrics last week) so I hadn't thought about developing it...I just thought it would be fun to record and post for feedback and use it to improve. But if it's worth pitching, I'd take a look at reworking it.

I don't remember if I mentioned this before, but my wife listened to some of your songs and when she found out you weren't rich and famous she told me if you hadn't made it with your songs, I had no chance! But I'd still like to get a song or two at that level so I can take my shot.

Mark

Ted:

Thanks for stopping by and listening.

Mark

Lloyd:

Thanks for the listen.

Lynn:

Thanks for the tips on the vocals. This is all stuff I really didn't think about. Mostly, I focused on not trying to sound like an idiot.

I wondered about the "Cold angry silence" and "talking and talking some more" lines. I was trying to show the cycle of the silent treatment and then rehashing the same futile arguments over and over. I wanted to show a contrast - silence and talking, neither one really working. I'd like to find a wording that keeps both the silence and talking...

The two lines in the chorus seem to be the biggest problem. I think I originally had a much wordier pair: "Any more promises we're going to break" and "This really ended a long time ago."

Those lines flowed better, but they didn't leave any space in the chorus. I tried to cut them down, but I think I cut too much...although, for some reason, "This ended long ago" seems to flow better than "Promises we'll just break." The accents are in different places, I guess. I like your suggestions, and I'll definitely rework these two lines if I record this again. That extra beat does seem to make the lines flow better.

Thanks for the detailed critique.

Mark

Wow! Very nice tune! All the elements of a good song were there. I especially like the overall sound. Quite interesting. I would've like to heard the vocals a tad louder but maybe that's my rock and roll ears. Thoroughly enjoyed this. Terry

Hi Mark

Well first of all tell your wife thanks for me. Also I'm so glad to be able to help
along with others here.
I mentioned not too long ago that I wasn't gonna hit every post with comments like
"nice song take care" Instead I would skim through and see who was up to what and help people in more detail & more ways.

This song will give "Ant" a nice break from me hounding and pushing him on "Blue Skies:" or "Waiting For You" I'll bother you for a while lol...

Now about what your wife said, I have heard that many times before from many people and I'm both flattered and depressed about it lol....

Add on the list of some of the "Rich & Famous" people in music and you really get depressed. I always say "I don't want all they have and I don't care about fame & riches, just let me stop selling my equipment, pay medical bills & other bills, find a cure for my health troubles, feed us, and give whatever I can to those who need help around me.

So all you had to say to her was "hey look at all the people who are rich & famous that Sub's got the beat on LOL...

Now if your song wasn't about saying goodbye she might cut you some more slack But really I think you have something special here and I meant what I said.
You show her that quote about the radio I posted. I meant it you have witten a melody here -
That I wish I had written.....

Take your shot bro & be proud of how you raised your game here.

And send me all the tracks!

In short time Sub,,,in short time.

It will just seem long though.

The lyrics fit well and it has a very pleasant melody. I would have picked up on that one line also but Wayne beat me to the punch. My only nit is the overall arrangement and balance was to bassy and muddy. For my ears it needs to be a bit lighter with more top end. The vocals were great but just too far back in the mix. I agree with Niteshift the drums were too heavy and up front. I think a twelve string ringing out might bring it together a bit more.

Hi Mark,

Very well done. It's not my usual genre, but I like all music that ain't about hate. This one had me singin' right along. Great job.

Ah geez Sub, you bet me to it. It'd be great to produce a song like this. OK, can I be Deputy Assistant Executive Co-producer.....either that or the tea boy.

Mark, enjoy the ride, it'll be fun......

cheers, niteshift

Terry:

Thanks for your kind comments. I never thought I'd hear anyone say they want to hear me sing louder. I don't get that much at home...

Mark

Sub:

Hey, I'm happy to give Ant a "break." I certainly appreciate your involvement. I'll get the rest of that stuff out to you.

Mark

Big Jim:

Thanks for going over this one. I agree with your points about the arrangement. The twelve string is a great idea...I wish I had thought of that one.

Mark

John:

Thanks for listening and singing along.

Mark

Nite, you crack me up. I really appreciate your kind words, too. Thanks for stopping back in.

Hi Mark

Sounded great to me, The song has a nice flow to it, The chorus
is my favorite part. Keep making music.

Hey Mark:

This is really nice!

Can't add anything to what's already been said - will second Nite's comment on the drums...

As for the song, it seems about perfect - memorable melody and a terrific lyric.

Nice work! Good luck with this!

Scott

Scott SW:

Thanks a lot. Doug @ Watchmens came up with the harmonies in the chorus and I think that added a lot.

Mark

Scott:

I appreciate your comments on this. I got the OK from the wife to invest a little more into this song, so I'm hoping to improve the production. Thanks for stopping in.

Mark

Hi Mark

I just had to listen to your great song again, cause this Aussie girl loves it!


Michele
Aussie fan from down under

Hey Mark & Michele

I have the tracks for this and....
I'm not behaving myself with this song at all!

Oh Mike, what do you mean your not behaving yourself with this song, tell me more Mike hah, not enough information, don't keep me in suspense.

I'll be back in an hour, gotta have some quality time with my cute hubby.


Michele