JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum I've been asked to be a part of a comp, but I need your advice.

Hello everyone, I've been recently scouted by Scratch magazine for a couple of songs on my myspace. I am alittle confused because I'm not sure what to do. Ok The deal is I pay $450 dollars and my song will be featured on there Indie Comp that goes out to record stores and are free. A total of 5,ooo go to the stores and 350 go out to record labels, and I get 20 for myself. Basically the 450 takes care of the distribution and print n stuff.

I know that Scatch is pretty reputable and I think it's a great opportunity but I'm still unsure. What do you think?

The website to the comp is www.theindiesampler.com.

The general consensus here is that you should be VERY wary of someone who promises you "success" for a price.

I have yet to hear of anyone getting money or additional deals from a compilation CD like you describe. Most are really bad scams.

A danger sign: the site above (www.theindiesampler.com) was unavailable when I clicked on the link.

Another danger sign: The web site for Scratch magazine said that issue #20 will be their final issue. The issue on the web site is for Sept 18th, 2007. If it's so reputable, why is going out of business and why is the web site so outdated?

I would bet that more than one person here says "Run, don't walk away from these people". Take a hint and walk away with your money...

I totally hear what your saying, but they didn't promise me any type of success or anything, I just figure if it goes out to record labels n stuff than it's all chance if someone wants to use my music.

I want to make sure you looked at the right site, when I typed in scratch magazine in my url a hip hop magazine came up, that's not the one, if you google scratch punk magazine, that's the one, I was looking for where it said #20 was there last issue but I could not find it anywhere. Also if you url www.theindiesampler.com it should come up, there's a link to the sampler on the website too. Hope I'm not asking to much with the googling n stuff, just want to make sure you where on the right site.

OK, Scratch mag - the hip hop mag is the one no longer around and was saying issue #20 was their last one. I think the "." at the end of the url in your first post made the indiesampler link a bad one. The 2nd link you supplied above worked.

Skratch Magazine (note the 'k") seems legit, but the fact that they're pushing a compilation CD of people who read their online mag worries me. Comp CDs are notoriously known as scams throughout most of the industry and I don't see anything really much different about this comp CD except it happens to be associated with an indie webzine. Does that make it legit?

At worst, this is just another scam to get your money. At best, it's a BAD investment of your money.

When record labels have lawyers, managers, and A&R people scouting the clubs, major sites like myspace (for high-hit band sites) and making recommendations to them, do you really think they will listen to an unsolicited CD from a webzine?

If you have $450 to invest in your music career, I would suggest spending $300 on a Taxi membership ( www.taxi.com ) and then using the other $150 to submit to various listings over the next year. Then you at least have a fighting chance of getting some sort of deal with your music - and if you don't, then you'll at least get feedback as to WHY it isn't of interest to labels or music supervisors.

That's my advice...

I would save the money myself to get with a publishing organization or those that deal with them, such as ASCAP.

But that deal almost sounds like deals that came from a third party somewhere.
Perhaps you are already published.
After only registering a copywrite I recieved all kinds of solicitations by both regular mail and email.

I always questioned the legitimacy of a company that solicited me. It is telemarketing.
It would be better to just take that old fasioned route of trying to get an interested publisher through channels if you are uncertain.

Best wishes!

Just to back up Larry. We have had numerous people come on here with similar stories most if not all have proved to be scams or at the very least offer nothing concrete back for your money.

Ok well I probably wont now, with not one of you thinking it's a good idea.

I am a Ascap member well actually I just recently went through the process and I'm waiting for approval any day now. I also have my publishing license.

I did do a cold call and asked if I payed the money would I be able to get on this up coming comp and they said no because they will have to approve the music, which was good cause if they just excepted anyone than I know it wouldn't be about the sound but just the money. I honestly don't have the money anyways that's why I was gonna go with the payment option, but I appreciate all your responses cause it helps.

Thank you everyone.

I was just going to give exactly this advice. What Larry said.

I think I would agree with everybody here who said "Run away, run away."

One, I don't see where compilation albums get any attention from the people who are going to listen to the music. Conventional wisdom from the radio station folks is they make great coasters and Christmas tree ornaments.

Second, these guys, whoever they are, are going to sell this thing and make money. Why do they want you to put up the production costs? Don't they have any confidence in you? If they don't, why are you dealing with them? The way I understand business is done in the music industry, the publisher fronts the marketing costs, in exchange for a percentage later. They are comfortable doing that, because they are sure you are going to make money later, and they're going to get a piece of it. Find one of those. The other people are sharks.

The only condition under which I would consider frongting a share of production costs would be if it were, like, a songwriters' collective, and we were going to share costs, each get a percentage of the CDs to sell--the idea being that we'd each be anxious to promote the CD because our song was on it (and in the process, everybody else's songs would get promoted, too). Note that only works if you're real small potatoes. For an outsider to do it, either they're real small potatoes (in which case why would you want to deal with them?) or they're out to fleece you (in which case why would you want to deal with them?).

Lots of luck. Keep the running shoes handy--it's a jungle out there.

joe

Not to mention, if you were going to put out a compilation CD, and your plan was to put it on record store racks, for free...what would be the purpose? And why would you fill it with songs by anyone at all...just as long as they could pay?

That CD wouldn't be a valuable "resume" item for you...just a $450 expense.

The only thing I thought would be positive is that for the people that would grab a copy in the stores (since there free)if they liked my song than they would look me up, maybe tell a friend and get more fans that way, and for the 350 record label execs the same thing but maybe some interest in buying it or placing an artist on my track. (oh and I know they are 100% free I've seen them before in a record store so I know they are not selling them.)


Trust me I know you have to be weary of the sharks, I also know I have to get out there some how, you see skratch magazine is very underground and independent, I have many of there magz at home, so I know there not just some random company that I know nothing about. There not a record label or publishing co or anything they just promote music that they feel is good. I believe there purpose as well with the cd is they also get promotion but they just don't have to pay for it the artist do. I also feel that they wouldn't want just anyone and anything on there site because it would look bad on them as far as the music they are promoting. The artist on there comp get a link on there site and a banner up on there page as well, so people who visit them can click on me.

I'm not gonna do it, but a part of me wishes money was no biggy and I could just take the chance, but we're musicians right, isn't money usually an issue. LOL

thanx again folks.

The website says:
"5000 total cds pressing-cds are free ( distributed at 75+ record stores and retail outlets, 350+ Indie and Major record labels, selected Major and Indie label A&R reps, and 35+ PR companies)."
If this is legit, it sounds like a bargain. Aside from getting people to pick up copies at record stores who might otherwise not come in contact with your music, the idea of getting copies out to 385 labels and PR companies means its costing you about $1.16 per (which is probably cheaper than you could mail them, not to mention the time it takes to track down the addresses, etc.) I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the idea outright, but I would be very careful and have an attorney look at the details before doing it.

Everdoom,

I haven't read their website, but you mentioned you "cold called" them and they said they would be selective in their choice of songs for the compilation, which is good.

Just as a guess, I'll bet what they are planning to do is to include this cd in their magazine, that would give them automatic distribution among their existing outlets. They'd advertise it in big print on the cover. It would put music in the hands of people who are already fans of the genre. If that's what they're doing it's a good idea. If not, then someone needs to try that and if it works, buy me a steak dinner.

Mike

I would advise against it strongly and I will tell you why. But first, forget about who they company is, as that is irrelevent for this discussion. We're talking about the concept rather than the company. It's an Audio & MP3 sampler. You can easily put a couple hundred MP3 files on a Disc. That means the true cost to them of hosting your song is as little as 1 200th of the cost of the discs and postage. In addition, SOME of the tracks are going to be in Audio. Usually those are from their preferred artists or themselves in many cases. (I've seen many compilations that were created to promote a handful of artists and paid for by everyone else). If you're guarenteed to be one of the audio tracks, then it has more value. If you're an mp3, it has far less value.

Let's do the math on this. $450 dollars times 200 is potentially $90K dollars. The cost of 5000 CD samplers? Under $5000 dollars. The cost of mailing them? Under $5000. So for a 10K investment, they can recoup $80K in profit. Great deal for them. Not so much for you. And that's if they can find 200 people to pony up the money. Guess how many millions of people are on MySpace just waiting to be approached. Finding 200 people is amazingly easy if you blanket enough.

Now, are these folks honest? I have no idea. But in my opinion, it doesn't matter. This doesn't have a $450 dollar value. It might have a $45 dollar value, but if it were my $45 dollars I'd use it on something else... like a chat with a music attorney or a good book on marketing yourself as an artist. For $450 dollars, you can print up 450 copies of your own entire CD, or find a few friendly fellow artists and do it yourself for a combined fraction of the cost. Get a copy of the Indie Bible and target people there who will review your music and send some copies out to radio stations in areas where you regularly gig and you'll be way ahead of the game. And if you're a non gigging artist then this project has even less value.

So I have to disagree with my very sage and wise friends Mike and Stu and strongly suggest you use those dollars more productively or invest them in some other area of your career.

Brian

Eve,

I read in your later posts that you're a punk artist. I strongly suggest you get with the local punk mags in your own town and work with them. Run some ads for your music or help organize a punk show with them as the media sponsor etc. That's a far more productive way to get your name and music out than spending 450 dollars on CD's that sort of go out into the void like scattered buckshot without a huge amount of follow up or practical advantage in the end.

Where are you from? Do you have a website or a link to your myspace page we could check out?

Brian

Would have to agree with Brian here. It's all well and good for anyone to get a few tracks together, put a presentation together, and mail them off. Great, your music is now MAILED to 350 companies. No-one is going to listen to it.

The reality is, that if you don't have personal contact with those that make the business happen, it ain't going to happen.

Those that make it happen, actively seek music out through their business contacts, whom they have dealt with for a very long time.

Bottom line, if you have to pay for an introduction, your music simply isn't good enough.

Don't pay to play. Run, and run fast.

cheers, niteshift

Hello again,

well thank you for all of your advice. I have to clear up that I am not a Punk artist, the magazine just from what I know of it promotes alot of punk artists but there more independent so all kinda goes, although I've never seen any hip hop or anything.

Let me explain what I do: I'm a Dub artist, my music is mainly instrumentals (Dub, Ambient, chill music) I have a studio and all my songs are built by me and my partner Josh. What I really want is to sell one of my songs for tv/film, maybe get an artist to sing on one of my tracks, I do alot of hooks n stuff.
I will gladly invite you to my myspace, but it's one big photobucket advertisement right now because I exceeded my bandwith and have to upgrade now because of the graphics I have up. I plan on doing that today, so I'll come on today and post it under here for you to check out.

Thank you
Cynthya

Hey Eve,

Just by the tone of your music, haul your ass off to Independant Artists, http://iacmusic.com , it's somethng that would suit your style, free signup for 2 songs, and a much better networking propostion than what you are curently considering. I don't endorse this site over any other, but it's suitable for your means, and it'll get you a lot further than what you're curently looking at.

cheers, niteshift

Eve,

Sounds like you should take that 450 bucks, spend 300 of it on a membership to TAXI (since you want to get your instrumental tracks into video libraries and TV/film stuff) and save the $150 dollars to go towards a plane ticket to Los Angeles to attend their Road Rally which is one of the best face to face networking opportunities right now in the entire music industry for indie writers and artists, especially those looking for collaborators.

You mention that comp does a lot of work in Punk, but you do something else. Even MORE reason to NOT do it. What good is a scattershot compilation CD? The answer? None.

Brian

here's the link to my music.

www.myspace.com/sessoultry

Oh and thanks for the link to iac music, I'll have to check it out more when I have more time.

Sort of a smooth house ambient sound.. nice job. = )

Thank you...

Cynthya

You may also just want to consider dealing directly with a music library if you want film/TV placements. They don't typically charge you to place your music on their site and have it searchable.

I've known a few bands that did this and all felt they should have saved money. You're buying advertising so it's really up to you if you find that valuable. I used to a date a band member that paid for such a service. Didn't amount to anything. His cost was more than $450. It was going to be passed out at an LA Warped Tour and sent to A&R/Record Labels. It wasn't for a whole song and there were maybe 20 bands on the compilation. I found out who replicated their CDs and for $5000 Cds in carboard sleeve packs = $2990. So they were making quite a profit.

As time went on I know they added a 1/4 page ad for your band to include in this package and they decreased the amount of bands.

I haven't looked into it recently.

Have you seen these CDs in record stores? Where they put them is very important.

I was once approached by Acoustic Rainbow for one of their samplers--the same folks who do the Woodsongs Radio Hour. Sounded like a great deal--$750, goes out to hundreds if not 1000+ radio stations that play folk music; you then get a list of all the stations that play your cut, and it's up to you to follow up. I asked some more illustrious artists on previous Acoustic Rainbow samplers--and they told me the cost of following up exceeded $1500 in postage, packaging and inventory: you were supposed to mail out your full CD to each station that played your cut. And the bottom line was that they got NO sales or gigs out of it. I decided I'd rather spend $750 on a road trip than an ego trip, and politely demurred.

Only comps I've ever paid to be on were either by the radio promoter who handled my CD (an investment of $125 which boosted my CD's radio pickup rate from 65% to 72%--alas, the promoter went out of business so I couldn't hire them for subsequent releases); or a charity-comp one of my my songwriting circles (the Old Town School of Folk Music's First Friday Songwriters' Exchange) put out--we each chipped in fifty bucks for production costs and got 20 copies; we could buy add'l ones for $5 each, sell them for $15 and plow the $10 into the charity we picked--Chicago Academy for the Performing Arts' Scholarship Fund. Every other comp I've been on--from SBS to Travenia (the label that released the Andina & Rich CD) to the Oasis Sampler to the Demento Society--were at no cost to me unless I wanted to buy extra copies to sell. And it's the freebies that have gotten me more airplay!