JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Blume article

Bob Dylan has always attracted people's opinions, and the arguments never stopped---people have polar opposite viewpoints about him, his voice, his talent, his impact...and they argue about him forever.

I now think Jason Blume has that same impact on people---his very name creates arguments.

I have nothing personal against either. I just think a little too much have been made of both especially Jason Blume.
A few dittys aimed at the commercial pop market and songwriting advice which is just basic common sense hardly makes anyone an inspirational hero.
Dylan's contribution is a different kettle of fish. He wrote some great songs and was instrumental in the protest movement. However his nasally monotone voice gets on my nerves. He is like Vegemite YOU EITHER LOVE HIM OR HATE HIM.

it's funny, some writers / artists view having a pop hit as selling out

just try to write and have a ditty pop hit
it's hard

Not me---rather than "selling out", I call it "selling"...which is usually the goal.

Me too. Never understood that view.

Ande, those kinds of songs aren't hard to write...they're hard to market without extreme amounts of networking because there's so many identical love songs out there. they're all so saccharine and each competing for the kinds of singers who cut them. it's the odds against the singer choosing your cheesy love song that makes it tough. that's where networking comes in. it's hard to have a hit with them, but they're not hard to write. Which do you think McCartney had a harder time with...She Loves You or Eleanor Rigby?

The more commercial stuff I have I wrote in less than thirty minutes. the other stuff in my catalog, the stuff I'm proud of, the stuff that makes me ME as a writer...that's different.

I agree with you Couch
pop ditty's aren't hard to write
they are hard to market and place

The way to get it done is to
1) have relationships writers, producers, artists, managers, & A&R and
2)work your way to being part of writer producer teams

which is exactly what our buddy Gregory Watton is doing.

ande

Now we are getting to the nitty gritty of the matter.
If you want to just write commercial dittys. You do not need to learn much about writing songs. You need to learn about business.
Gregory said that he admired Jason Blume as a good businessman and songwriter.

I still don't think it's easy. Those who call it easy are almost always the same ones who never wrote such songs...because they're easy...but they don't do it...

I don't mind saying most pop songs bore me, and that I wish they had more meaning and were more challenging musically...but I will stay off the bandwagon of calling all those writers talentless. Because I doubt it is easy to write exactly what someone else is looking for.

OK put the shoe on the other foot ask them to write something deep and meaningful with a challenging melody.

And they would say, "Why? Who is offering money for that? What they want is another hit song ala (insert hot artist here). Why write a song in a style that the people writing the checks aren't really looking for?"

Here's a cool link:

http://www.taxi.com/industry.php?Listings-index-box

We've talked about TAXI before, the A&R company that screens submissions for a lot of major players in the industry, music libraries, artists, TV/Film, etc. Take a look through their listings here and tell me what you see. The word that keeps coming up is "ala". Ala Amy Winehouse, or ala Fall Out Boy, or what have you. Most of the songs they want are in the style of someone who has already found success...the people with the money are interested in repeating that same success.

More interesting perhaps are the listings for TV/Film...they often want something in an older style, something that can be used as backing music on an A&E special, or the History Channel, or something on Showtime. If you can produce a broadcast quality piece at home, this is one of the few ways to get something sold that is outside of the pre-established styles they are seeking for radio play.

But those who want to make steady money are probably going to do what Jason Blume does...write in the style that is being requested, and network like crazy.

OR...you start your own band and get gigs and get popular...if you can pack the venues, well then, the labels will be interested in you, because you already make money.

Those of us who just want to write songs the way we like them have the steepest hill to climb if we want to make a living doing only this.

It's incredible the thread poisoning never ends.

Jim -

You are preaching over & over & over again to the choir. We all know 90% of us at least that the greatest Rock music & Pop music in general is behind us in the past, just like the greatest classical music is, Pop example Elton John was a POP superstar his catalog is better in every regard than the entire roster of any 3 major labels today combined. There is no debating this, and no one is debating this.

Your entitled to your opinion( obviously) everyones got one yours is not very educational as mainly all you do is basically put people down.
Because you have been really really into music for like 40 years and have some expierence singing in cover bands means what??? Gosh I bet I have seen more great shows than you but I don't use that as my basis for every discussion and trying to learn or help others. You wanna do that? start a Jim's favorite music & goups forum and turn some people on to that music. At least it may be something positive.

Try too look at this way - Neither I or You is better than The Beatles or The Who
And neither is anybody else playing rock or pop music on the planet no as well.. Lets be GLAD about it.
If everyone was as great as Queen today what chance would anyone have.

I feel all this talk is irrelevant to you because succeeding in the music business is not something that concerns you, at least I don't believe it is. This going by your work and your thread responses anyway. In other words If your gonna bitch all the time at least be in the game... Or are you just a fan, there are hundreds of sites where fans go back and forth with this stuff.

I used to frequent another songwriting board and all quite a few people did was turn EVERY single thread no matter what is started as into a debate and a, what I like was great and what you like stinks thing. I left that forum completely as it got to be to child like and amateur. There was like 50 folks doing there what you do on here.

I always thought as this place as a much more sophisticted and professional songwriters forum, and beginners are a great part of that as well.

So look I can't match the greatest of all times and neither can you or anyone else really, but I can match my competetion now where it counts and equal my peers in a few genres today, thank goodness.

So far from what I see & hear form you, your not as good as half the people you knock, So if they don't ahve any real talent where deos that leave you?
I wonder what Jasom Blume or Bob Dylan or whoever would say about you. Oh wait they don't have the luxury of doing that do they?

Do something to earn the respect you so greatly desire. we get it, we get it already.

Sorry for sounding harsh in any way big guy but it's like i dont even wanna click on any threads anymore in fear of seeing your picture lol...

Start a thread titled [b]"Simon The Twit" and we can all abuse him up & down all day & night, But lets not turn everyone else's and every single thread into that.....
[/b]
I'm sure others feel the same way, but I dont wait for others to say or do.

Alls I'm saying is Chill Baby! it's getting tired.

Mike..not Sub...Mr Dunbar...ROULETTE.. in my long gone youth i thought the game was invented for me..i have tried every system..dunno the "martingale" by name but i guess it has to do with "sections" of the wheel..which is a big fav with system players...nonetheless Bill(we could make this into a roulette thread l.o.l)hoping the dealer keeps banging the ball around in the same section or whatever...GREAT!..if your on...the hard part Bill is the walking away,or vice versa...hitting the wheel at the wrong time and being under the collar from the word go..and chasing your losses,again, when do you walk away..."oh she must hit my section" so on and so forth..then when you do walk away you are scratching your nether regions...pratted!!Being impulsive is in the gamblers physcic...unfortunately learning discipline is the hardest part,anyway i have given up roulette many moons ago..texas hold em is a much easier form of relaxation and a totally different form of skill..it is not actually based on the hand you are holding...it is based on what the other guy "thinks" you are holding...that is the secret of the game..as for golf, well i always thought of it as a waste of a good walk!...you may wonder what texas hold em and songwriting have in common...discipline and patience..knowing when to walk away,and return later...and knowing that your first write will be a re-write and another re-write,and probably another,but have the patience to wait for the correct lyrical connection to appear,and when it does,knowing how to recognise it...THAT to me as a writer is the very bottom line,the lowest musical common denominator if you like...when you KNOW you have it right..and you would be very hard pushed to make it better...Bill in my honest humble opinion..That is something that CANNOT be taught....if any songwriting guru can unbottle that little genie,then next to the keys of the gates of heaven,they have knocked it off......Terry...

I think the Blume is off the Rose.

Now that I know that Jason Blume is a member of JPF and that he offers free songwriting classes, I am less cynical of his industry- the one that caters to educating songwriters. I won two Jason Blume CD's in a song contest a few years ago. One was about lyric writing and one about melody writing. They included some good exercises but like anything else worth learning, you have to apply what is being taught. That is harder than it sounds. If you have complete faith in a methodology or a particular teacher, you will naturally apply religiously what they say, and I am sure you will get more out of it. For me, the problem I had with Jason's class (which I took here in Fort Worth), and with his instructional CD's, is that I was not completely convinced that I wanted to learn what he had to teach. I knew he was enormously successful but I didn't care for the songs he wrote. Now I read Jimmy Webb's book and I was glued to the pages because I love his songwriting. I don't have the same love for Jason Blume's songs. He is a great guy, very informative, very encouraging; but it really came down to the question- do I want to write the kind of songs that he writes? The answer for me was no. Still I learned a great deal from him about the industry and I am sure I have a lot more to learn from him.

Honesty without malice. Thanks for your words Samuel.

I dropped another site, too. In fact, I think you might be talking about the same site I stopped visiting. I seem to remember your name from the other site. It was a very childish over there, and trying to be mature about your attitude seemed to bring out the ire in others.

Terry,

The martingale is actually a betting system that works in a 50/50 proposition. It works best for flipping coins. In roulette, the green zero and double zero change the odds just enough that the martingale can break down. That and the fact that you have to fund the martingale enough to outlast the odds.

Yea that is the bottom line...outlast the odds...it can be very expensive... the difference is, over here in the UK there is only 1 zero on the wheel,,so that is roughly 2.5% favour to the house...so the martingale isn't a popular bet...to be honest Mike, the double zero is a "killer" and should be outlawed..their % is adequate...the craps work on a smaller % than roulette.........Terry...

that's great Ande...another way is to start with unique, innovative ideas and let them market themselves through reputation and word of mouth. everybody's gotta choose their own path.

"Pure commercial intent makes for disposable music. Memorability is fine, but it isn't enough. And what is great art if not universally appealing, hence commercial? Selling something built with integrity usually results in a successful product. I feel that the two concepts- artistic merit and commerciality- must be united in order for a song to be really great. "

Craig Bickhardt

At the end of the day, there are no real answers as to who is gonna come out on top. It's a combination of many variables.

Some would say the path I am taking is the best sure way to obtain commercial success.

Others would say let the music speak for itself....

Which way is the right way? Honestly, both.

The JPF motto is "We're all in this together". Right? Right.

So instead of attacking each other and what not, lets support and encourage each other and if we can help each other in some way accomplish whatever it is we wish to accomplish, then at the end of the day, we have helped each other become better people.

Jason Blume is a JPF mentor. Brian wouldn't have allowed him to become a mentor if Brian didn't see there was SOME kind of merit that Jason possesses. I personally like Jason. It's perfectly OKAY for others to disagree with my opinion.

So regardless of your opinions of Jason, offer him the respect any human being deserves.

Greg: I hope that you didn't think my quote was directed "against" Jason. My quote from Craig Bickhardt was just on what it takes to have a great song -- and "commerciality" is part of the equation. Or as the wizard said "a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others."

Of course, you probably were just using the reply box and really weren't responding to my post.

Kevin

I can't believe this thread is still going---jeez Big Jim---if someone starts a threads...THEIR thread...if you don't agree, leave it alone...or maybe say ONCE that you don't see it...that's it ! ! People can't even post here without you in their face...Everett started a thread wondering if people went to church for Easter...and in like a second you started a whole religion war with him...AGAIN>>> and once you start you will argue on and on and on and on....Ease up buddy, you're getting to be like a fungus---take a breath---ah hhhhhhhhh...Can't you feel that negativity going away ? ? ? ? What do you care if Ande thinks it would be good for people to read Blume's book??? I have never felt Ande's intentions to be anything but good.

Kevin,

I was just using the reply box. Sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like I was directly responding to what you said.

Our negative replies to what we perceive to be negative posts...sometimes those can be the harshest of all. When we go personal on someone, maybe it's best to use the private message function. Otherwise it's just publicly tearing one person apart.

Songwriting is a combination of many variables as well Gregory..millions of them!..we all have differing opinions on what constitutes a good songwriter..iam with you on the "live and let live" outlook,and good luck to Mr Blume,obviously he has a passion for the business end and craft of songwriting,and his willingness to share his experiences has to be applauded.But songwriting and songwriters cannot be pidgeon-holed,there are no hard and fast rules in songwriting,guidelines perhaps,but to me songwriting is like trying to catch a rainbow..you can see it but you can't touch it..but yes at the end of the day we are all in this together, and tho we may have differing opinions,there is a lot of wisdom and experience on these boards with a few "characters" thrown in, and that is what separates JPF from all the other songwriting sites on the net,and long may it continue.........Terry...

AMEN TERRY!!!!

Joe, I'm not much for those songwriting manuals but if I had to read one, it'd be Jimmy Webb's. he's written classic, timeless songs...Galveston, Wichita Lineman, The Highwayman. I'm not sure the same can be said of other "mentors". I still think the best piece I'll ever read on writing is Raymond Chandler's essay The Simple Art of Murder.

I think Sam nailed it here.

When it comes to mentors, advisors, etc. I try to make sure that all of my decisions are based on the fact that the mentor has already accomplished what I wish to accomplish myself.

If I want to be a baseball player, I wouldn't time studying soccer players, even though some are very successful athletes.

Likewise, even though Jason Blume is a successful songwriter, he doesn't write the kinds of songs I'm interested in writing. He has talent to be sure, but the results do not resonate with me. So it's unlikely that I'd find much success following his instruction.

That's not to say there's nothing to learn, but ultimately you still have to be passionate about the results, not just the process. Otherwise you won't have the motivation to produce really great stuff.

Personally for me,one of the most underated songwriters of our time is the late Mickey Newbury...i don't think he ever had a book on songwriting published...if he did...i would love to read it...tho iam not a big country fan,i certainly liked his voice and his songs........Terry..

Perspective Perspective Perspective....

We submitt and respond in great abundance when Harriet does her Mentor Critiques. And she's quite wonderful. She has our respect and gratitude.

So If Jason Blume decided to drop in here and do one one week, not only do I think every member here would read it, A slew of of non forum active members would be joining in as well. As a matter of fact I think most would be tripping over each other to get a submission in and the view numbers would be staggering.

Oh yeah but that's right we don't really care what he has to say, cause it don't really apply to us, and God forbid he hears one of our songs and likes it....
That wouldn't mean much to a SONG WRITER now would it?

There are may styles and approaches to songwriting this Guy has one DOWN, that most of us couldn't match no matter how easy you think it is or how good you feel you are.

And I do not own one song by one artist's CD ever written by Jason Blume

Perspective, Perspective, Perspective we all have to take a drink of it once in a while
Mee too...

I think a lot of it has to do on someone's feeling that their product will attract listeners and their audacity to shop their product to listeners.
We have a scene over the last 40 years that has been made up of groundbreaking acts that were not considered "real musicians" by music circles and insiders.
In the sixties, the companies did something smart and got people outside from the circles to see exactly what listeners might like. Not that they even liked acts like The Beatles, they were schrewd enough and also had an eye for the public's interest.
I wonder how many of these acts chances would be nowadays.
This very indie spirit in the early rock scene started to collapse when record companies once again made musicians and producers in popular acts the talent scouts and in the name of musicians artistic freedoms.
Not that that is bad in itself, but there is that bias with them being insiders.
The companies don't want to pay those schrewd outsiders a big bonus, and the musicians and producers have favors to owe.
What may have been unique and different with a musicians own spin is now called incompetent.
No kind of research as to where anyone outside of their box may like that certain musician.
I can't count how many times some conformist in that inside tract has lectured me on what listeners like when I already shopped my stuff around to know what a target listener may like or not like.
That is how I look at "way to ne a winning musician" articles.
It may be useful to learn the blues as an example to enrich the songwriting, but some are not blues men and have their own thing they worked toward that can't be so easily defined.

It all hinges on what you make of the art an what you are willing to compromise.
I would have to feel wholely inspired myself.

I know what you mean but even if you wanted to be a 2nd baseman, would you read a bio by a first baseman or a catcher?

I don't know if you want to write country or rock (pop) but would you rather read a book by Jimmy Webb, Tom T. Hall, Jason Blume, or Kelly Lovelace?

Me, I'd read Tom T. Hall (and I have) because he is from my era but if I wanted to know more about current success I'd read either Blume or Lovelace.

I know who Webb is and I was around when most of his songs became hits, which was primarily 40 years ago and almost everything since then has been primarily based on what he did 40 years ago. I read Webb's book and didn't finish. It isn't necessarily the fault of the book--I hardly ever read hard copies of anything anymore. But Webb's book had a lot of music theory type stuff that I really can't relate to because I'm not now nor will I ever be a musician. I can pluck a guitar, I can poke a piano key, I can honk a harmonica but I am not a musician by a long shot. So his book wasn't that helpful to me. And he wrote one of the most important songs in my life.

As for Lovelace or Blume, Lovelace has the benefit of studying music at Belmont where he met Paisley which is a big "in" for him.

Blume probably has the most in common with me--we are about the same age, he can write a melody but is more naturally drawn to lyrics, he went to LA not knowing anyone, and it took him a long time to have a deal.

I own a few and have read or at least scanned several books on songwriting. The one that helped me the most was one guy a guy named Michael Kosser and that was back in the 70s.

Even More Perspective!!!

ANYONE can write ANY KIND of song they want all day all night for the rest of there life.

No one is stopping you. Okay follow me now, you want to become a proffesional
song writer and make a living from doing it.
You would like to be able to feed yourself and your family, maybe pay rent or buy a home and pay a morgage. You may even want to have HEALTH benefits, there dirt cheap so don't sweat it.

Are you with me so far? Okay you may have or want to start a family that's also cheap. Pay school tuition! have a decent vehicle to drive..... Pay a slew of bills etc... etc....etc....

You want to become or maybe already are ONLY A SONGWRITER okay?
There is no other job....

Now you can forget about all those things above and get a job a really really good one. Or maybe you even have one already?

If you can't live without the above things and you are only a songwriter get a rope
and look for a high enough beam

WAKE UP You basically got only a few choices.

1- You write Country Music Songs, any style of it is acceptable, but lol,, make sure there up tempo Different styles Loads of rules.... and loads of competion

2- You write songs geared for Teenagers, YES teenagers the ones who thrive & drive
the music industry, The kind that Jason Blume writes and many others, they can range from pop/pop - pop/rock - pop/R&B and Hi Hop

3 - You are the Artist yourself so your song writing can be different.
Oh yes it can, you can have songs that only make sense to you & your girlfriend or boy friend and win a Grammy for it.
But either way they are not made for selling to others/getting cut by others...
And be careful with your time ,your gonna get old for the music business very quickly....

So go ahead and write any kind of song you like, but don't expect to be able to
get a cut, or be able to do all the things I listed above from it.

Not saying you can't write a GREAT future classic song by all means please do.. but what puts food on your table tonight?

So maybe someone sacrificed TRUE GREATNESS to make some bucks, maybe they are sitting home wishing they had a Born To Run or a Dark Side Of The Moon in them but don't. I feel for them for I feel the same way. I understand.

So they got GREAT at doing what they do.... How do we know what the deal is in there life... It's still be pretty damn cool if it was YOU!

ANYONE can write ANY KIND of song they want all day all night for the rest of there life. Now go TRY to get paid to do it! Or get some sleep you got to wake up early for work tomorrow.


Family before pride!

Mike,

I don't think anyone here cares what we have to say. In some respects, some of the members here have most likely lumped me in the same boat as Jason Blume since I write in the exact same genres as Jason and I am most assuredly "selling out".

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I'm still gonna continue what I'm doing regardless.

Maybe in a year or so, the posts will be aimed at me too in addition to Jason. lol....

As hollywood would say. Any publicity is good publicity. The fact that people think talking about Jason Blume is worthy of their time at all would mean Jason Blume is doing something right.

Good or Bad, publicity brings attention to successes and failures. And true failure is when someone gives up and wonders about what could have been.

I really respect the determination a working musician has.
But when my eyes were big and I wanted to be a rock star in my delinquincy, I did a gut check to see if that is all I wanted to do.
I grew up liking metal and alternative, but also some soft influences.
If I have that devotion and I want to attempt something in a pop ballad vein, the conformist side enters in where it says you gotta be more punky.

I would like to do some recordings with a small publishing deal maybe.
Though I don't cross my fingers with it, I don't regret my desicion.

If I wanted to do something just one way I would be an accountant, and if I wanted a mass group of people to like me I would be a politician.

Greg

Some people care, and I appreciate what your saying and trying to do.

I do have perspective to the point where it hurts me Many times I wish I didn't know better and didn't go through the things I have, then again I wouldn't trade it either.

See being able to jump into different peoples worlds is both a good & bad thing.
It's hard to find a home.

Like say we all sit in a room for 2 hours and someone starts blasting some banging tracks and we have to come up with melodies for those tracks, and they have to be CATCHY!!! And you can't make the listener think your 30 40 50 60 years old even if you are.. And it has to be convincing enough to the ones who are gonna LAYOUT all the bread to do this thing...

Ther artist has to love it & feel at well. This can be poppy pop Hip Hop or Metal even though only Bands do metal... but ya know what I mean.

Being able to separate the MUSICAL YOU... for the challenge at hand.

And for added measure it's for a MAJOR label and a chance of a lifetime for anyone who ever sang a melody or picked up a pen to write. NO MATTER what style.

I've been in that room and have watched sophisticated,educated, songwriters or musicians or what have you fold like an accordion

As for the ones who lasted, I could do so so many things that none of the others could do there, but never did I not show respect or lose perspective of anyone or anything. They were there man. And I know what it took to be there with them.

Hard Work and determination deserves credit & respect in any field

Perspective!

Hi Matt

I wanted to talk a little about that as well, I feel bad hijacking Ande's thread but I think he's usd to all the hi jackings by now.

Man who was even thinking about song writing? I wanted to be a Rock Star since I was 3 years old, Then I calmed down some and started to get seroius about it when I was 7 years old.

I smile when I watch a movie or a show and anytime someone brings this up to a kid:
What do you wanna be when you grow up? Or have you thought about a career?
What courses? What are you gonna Major in??

I have always known, never a doubt and never changed my mind once.

Matt- I still don't know your age and where your at with things in your life, work famliy etc....
But I can tell from helping you with your music that you don't have a lot of expierence as a "musician"

I think you need to put in some real time on it... with being a musician there is no
such thing as a short cut or easy road.I called my dear friend the other day, he's a musician 100%. Haven't seen him in a few years now.

I teased him on his answering machine and said hey you, your so flighty, your like a real musician dude! Where do you live now? Where are you working? Are you working? Any more cancelled engaments? Divorces? I know your not still at the factory? (joke of course)

When he left his message back, he was like "HOW did you KNOW????

MAtt - You need to spend some time in a band and breathe the whole thing in the great & the bad...

I never stopped being a musician, I did stop playing one instrument for 6 hours literally a day a very long time ago though. And I often regret it

Maybe your facing more than just the music questions now, maybe it's lifes questions.
I decided I was gonna write songs and record back in my early twenties and ween off the band thing, I KNEW then if I ended up where I was satisfied as a musican I would have nothing else in my life, no home life.

Trying to hit the perfect middle a life of music, being with family & getting a royality check in that mailbox that would cover it all

Keep The Dream Alive Whatever You Decide

I give this thread back now my apologies....

Well, I will mark you down amongst a thousand others various opinions.

My point is that pro-school types set paramaters and thus leave out the outside take on where an artist could really go with their stuff.

You can't really concede how good you or anyone else is to someone else when the business is so slated one way.

Ande Couch and Anyone else.

Excuse me Pop Ditty's are hard to write, Sounding simple,
is not easy. saying a lot with a few words, is hard.

Marrying the right words to the right music is hard, nothing wrong with being commercial, commercial means catchy.

We dont want novels, all of the Beatles fabulous songs said a lot with a few words. if the guy in the street is singing or whistling your tune you have done the business.

Remember guys lyrics are meant to be sung not read,
It dont mean a thing if it dont sing.

Jason does a great job but he's no Dianne Warren and never will be keep things in perspective.

Iy you want to study the song market look at the work of greats like Sammy Cahn, and Gershwin , Sondheim, all there principles of great song writing stand up today, even with a so called simple Pop Song.

I'm not too much into the music of this post to judge either way.
I like rock and pop in general.
But I have followed few new acts.

The thing I notice though in lyrical threads and music in genral is how often lyrics will be changed to suit a rhyme, thus either taking away the impact of the meaning or not making sense.
Than there is the musicians in the name of lyrical honesty that try to pump too many lyrics into a verse.
It is great having the perfect fit with the honesty and verse structure.
I have scrapped ideas until I could do that.

To quote the BIG BOOK..."Many are called ..but few are chosen"
Songwriting is one hard bitch of a Mistress...you can buy/read/and sleep with songwriting books 24/7....you can brown nose/network/pitch 24/7...you can write/scream/pull your hair out 24/7..you can brag/attend seminars//shout from fooftops..listen to this!!....But if you do not get a "rub of the green"..in otherwords a good slice of luck..ie. being at the right place ...at the right time...then boys..to be positively blunt and to the point....you are farting against the wind!..all the songwriting books manuels or whatever,guru's, advisers,6 easy steps,10 easy steps or 20 easy steps...add mountains to that list,make it the face of the EIGER....IF YOUR LUCKY YOU might MAKE A CRUST....so lets enjoy the wee bit of talent we have and enjoy it..some will aim for the moon and hit the bulls eye no doubt...others will forever howl at it......Terry..

I also felt a need to point out that there really is not anything wrong with that method.

But no conclusions should be drawn on what one's listenability is on what a musician or circle says.

I would like to apologise to anybody I have offended, upset or angered. I mean no harm or malice.
Tact is not one of my strong suits and the fact that I have strong views and am outspoken does me no favours SOMETIMES.
That said I must explain my position and to a certain extent defend it.
I am passionate about music and have strong views on politics and religion.
I am from a country that has a different culture from most who contribute in this forum. Traditionally the USA has always been more right wing and deeply religious than the UK especially the country music fraternity that seems to dominate the boards.
As I am more left wing and have stronger anti religious beliefs than the average Brit then it is hardly surprising that the sparks fly occasionally. I do not bear grudges however and there is no malice or ill intent in the things I say. I am just stating my opinion which is usually different not negative just different.
Sometimes I am deeply offended by what I see as narrow minded political and religious dogmas I am also offended by people who do not have the same high expectations I have and apparently are quite happy to accept mediocrity. Perhaps I should ignore it and bite my tongue however I was taught to speak up for myself and question everything I disagree with. If I think something is wrong I will say so.
I have been accused of being negative. Well nothing can be further from the truth. I am a very positive person. You have to be to survive in my business. There is always somebody trying to muscle in if they think they can get away with it.
Recently comments in threads have been rubbing me up the wrong way. I cannot stand ass sucking "yes" people who say nice things just to try and create a good reputation or suck in with others.

There is a big problem with the music industry in that too many third raters are making it. If we were more honest then we would see this admit it and fight it. Condoning it welcoming it or supporting it is totally alien to me. I set and demand high standards and cannot understand why other musical people cannot. If a thing is not up to scratch I say so. I do not care if it comes back to bite me I state my case. It amazes me how a forum with so much talent can be so apathetic about this. "JIM you are a dinosaur if people achieve fame and success they deserve it and must have talent or be doing something right" has been said to me.... well it just does not wash.
I am too old in the tooth to not recognise impostors when I see them. As for being a dionosaur I try to keep abreast of the times as we have to play chart stuff in most venues. I have enough experience to know a good song and talent when I see it or not as is the case.
As for bringing people down I fail to see how I am doing this. I have contributed positively to technical forums and am sure have helped people overcome problems with my advice. The same with the MP3 and critiques I am never negative. My observations are usually on the mark and my advice is usually very positive. I may be a little more honest than some but I view that as a positive and would rather state the problems a piece has in a constructive way than lie and say I liked it and it was a brilliant piece of work. A lot of people regularily do this and this in my opinion is far more negative than any contributions I will ever make. Perhaps these people should be pointed out and chastised. They are the real negatives.
I call them positively negative.
I have also been asked to justify my pedigree and qualifications to justify my position. Well I was going to give a long list of my achievements but on second thoughts I decided not to.. except to say that I am a pro singer and make enough money to not need a day job for most of my life. If you doubt this then come and see me perform. Success is not always metered by cuts or record deals.
I will try to stop hijacking threads. In return I ask all JPFs to do likewise and think. Lose some of the apathy set the bar higher not just for you but for others especially those who are in the top echelons. Please do not lie just to be nice.
One parting shot that kinda proves my point I cannot understand why so many so called musicians and song writers spend so much time on a thread talking about American Idol IMHO a glorified Karaoke competition with pretty mediocre singers. Standards must have got lower because of this type of thing. The more you are bombarded with crap the more likely you are to start liking it and accept it AND LOWER YOUR OWN STANDARDS ACCORDINGLY.

I often feel that my simple perspectives and opinions can be misunderstood also.
No apologizing for that if no harm was warrented.
I can appreciate someone that would tell me I am not doing something right. They can even be a fathead and state things I said that I never even intended to say.
That happens in families.

It is one thing to go with the program and another altogether to to be imprisoned by it.
Take what some big shot says as gospel.

I think that also has had the tendency to deprive a lot of listeners.
It is not only if one genre or the other gets left out.

There are some that won't be able to do things musically just like there are some that can't do certain forms of math.
But a program can never be placed around the song in ones heart and the inspiration and thought that they may have put in it.
Whatever seriousness or not one sees of it.

And often in professional music, inspiration has been forsaken in the name of anothers version of musical purity.
Not all, but much of the time.

"Different songs fit different markets and follow different guidelines.

It would be silly to critique a hip hop or pop song using country lyric criting guidelines

I wish that people would see merit and embrace it, but the industry looks for accomplishment, each songwriter who truly desires commercial success has to make a journey to it.

Get a big cut or have a big single or write a career making single for an artist and you'll find many doors open.

Demos pitched to artists and producers need to sound awesome.
Unfortunately awesome is expensive, plus when you write a lot of songs it's hard to figure out which songs to do up right."

In response to this, I would just like to say that people who critique songs ARE coming from preconceived angles. Before you even send in your songs for review, the song screener usually already has a particular idea as to what they are looking for...so this means that even if you've got a totally awesome song in the genre they are requesting for, if you are not sounding exactly like the current top forty bands in that market, you will be over looked. For example, in TAXI people within the industry, want to you sound like so and so, be in so and so's age group, dress like so and so. Therefore instead of sounding like YOU - a nice fresh, new, fun, and interesting twist on that particular genre...more industry people want you to sound and be JUST like "so and so," with the exact same chord progressions, stage presence, and singing style...only under a different name. When this happens, its less about the music and more about the overall package of what it cool at the moment. Just like when driving persons get tunnel vision, so too I believe this happens with the ears, and a person block out all other fantastic music because of listening and seeking out only the same one thing with nothing else in mind. Time and time again this happens.

I'm not slamming those who make it, I'm just saying that the big wigs in the music industry don't always recognize every aspect of talent right away. I've read countless stories on how people stayed true to their own musical style and blew up anyway, surpassing what some people first thought of them. Something to keep in mind as food for thought.

As far as the comment of lowering standards.
I get the comments to where "oh, you must not have any experience".
I agree with the other post to where I could state I shouted from the highest rooftops to where I am looked at the opposite way.
Lower standards - LOL, well I must really be at the bottom since I am told that only here.
The American Idol stuff does make me ponder if what is said is bad of me is actually good.
To go along with the last post, I remember when publishers demanded a rough take. Now it is all the BIG SOUND.
To insure they will pay to get played.
Someone at this site at one time even tried to hustle me for thousand dollar a month internet lessons.

I just knew about the little bit of experience prior to the net and growing up at the start of the indie boom never to rely on one source for an opinion.

Often times it seems it is the dollar bill and hustling and farting in the wind.
Some have even sold cd's of certain types of gas and assigned names to them.

All pro musicians have to have that telemarketing side to them it seems.
Which seems very contradictory of something that is supposed to come from the mind and soul.

But such is life.
Very paradoxial at times.

Matt my ol' buddy..your right it does come from the mind and soul..but then it enters a business arena,,the real lions den..A songwriter,until he gets a handle on the "holy grail" has to wear an assortment of hats..P.R./ NETWORKING./.PITCHING./.MAKING CONTACTS./..DEMO'S/...and a lot more besides..and that is just to get a foot in the door...IF your lucky enough to get into the circle,the business load eases a bit,then perhaps you have more time to concentrate on your craft.but you know the old saying...don't give up the day job...luckily for me, my songwriting has yielded a few schekkles,but not enough to keep the long haired one in the style she is accustomed to...so i have to keep on at the day job..or should i say night job...i have been a pro musician for 30 years,and they still want to employ me.....so until they don't want me, whether i have success at writing or not..i will keep on playing...i just cannot imagine life without music,and if i can help the folks forget THEIR worries for a little while thru my music..and they keep buying the odd CD..what more can you ask for....Terry...

God give us all talents but he doesn't give us all the same talents. Good thing He doesn't. He also gives talents in different measures. Everyone can write at least one song but not everyone will write it well and not everyone will have the desire to write a song. I think when God gives you a talent, He gives you the desire to be good at it and the desire to work at being good at it. I have no desire to be an actor, therefore that is not my gift. I had a desire to play hockey but had limited ability at it, mainly because of body size and shape (short legs, not ideal for skating lol). My one burning desire was to write songs, I realized I was not a natural guitar player or great singer, but I seemed pretty good with words. I did read one or two songwriting books and learned the basics, but most of the basics I was doing anyway, it came naturally.

I don't pretend to be the world's greatest songwriter but I believe I can write a decent song, but getting those songs heard in the right places, now that's something else, especially living where I do.