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Hummingbird...I don't know who "all these people" are that are spewing negativity. I just said listen to Jason's songs. I think Big Jim posted a lyric of Jason's and wasn't too impressed.

My post was to help songwriters. ask yourself this question...a crowd of door to door salesmen is working your town, promising their products will help your home. Someone comes on the radio and says it may be wise to check out the salesmen's credentials. Would you say that person was "spewing negativity"? Hopefully not...he's being a consumer advocate.

so visit these "mentors" websites, listen to their songs. ask yourself...do my songs really need the aluminum siding these guys are peddling? Just because they're successful doesn't mean you need what's in their van. They may have built their success with the wallets of suckers. are they teaching creativity...or McWriting? is their success based on luck...or talent? while true it may be hard to duplicate their success...it's also hard to duplicate the success of a lottery winner.

are their songs timeless...or did they just catch the wave of a musical fad? when was the last time you rocked out to the BS Boys? or Brit? when the BS Boys or Brit are mentioned, is it with respect...or derision?

I'm a songwriter advocate. just listen with an open mind...in ten minutes you'll know. You might be better off learning what you can from Bob Seger cds for free.

Keep in mind Couch, just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else must agree with you.

I personally like Jason Blume. Does that mean I like EVERYTHING he's written? No. But does that take away from him as a writer and businessman? No. Would I work with him if presented the opportunity? Absolutely!

Let me ask you Couch. How many radio hits have you had? How many songs have you gotten placed with major artists?

One of my favorite songs Jason Blume has co-written is "Why Don't You Kiss Her" recorded by Jesse McCartney. That song was cut on Jesses' debut album "Beautiful Soul".

Actually, what is your opinion of the song "Beautiful Soul"?

That word businessman again.
Gregory you said

"Let me ask you Couch. How many radio hits have you had? How many songs have you gotten placed with major artists."

You do not need to be a top songwriter to appreciate or criticise other peoples music. From the tone of your posts and the people you site as heros Gregory I kinda get the impression that you are obviously more interested in making money than producing great music. Nothing wrong with that but to some folk it is not the be all and end all.

Ranald Mcdonald is a billionaire all from hamburger flipping.
So if he wrote a book about cooking why should I buy it cause It will only show me how to flip hamburgers and make millions selling junk food not how to be a masterchef.

At the beginning of this thread I posted lyrics written by Jason Blume. As yet nobody has justified these as great lyrics. I have nothing personally against the man I just think he is overrated and put on a pedestal he does not quite deserve. Yes he has had tremendous success in different genres but I am half way through reading his book and have listened to his records and viewed his lyrics he does not impress me much.

Greg, I haven't stated my view of Jason's songs. I've just suggested people listen to ANYONE's songs who claim to be songwriting teachers. How many hits I've had is irrelevant to making that suggestion. YOU'RE the Blume supporter...how many have you had? more importantly...how has he helped your writing? post something you've written and point out how his advice made it a better song.

I haven't sought out Blumes' critiques or songwriting advice. I've read his book "6 Steps to Songwriting Success" though.

I don't pay for others to critique my songs. I don't use any critique services.

I've never had to pay for a song to be demoed. I have been paid for songs of mine to be used/licensed by recording artists.

I have songs releasing on major albums slated to drop this year. 2 of them are singles. Will they be hits? I hope, but we shall see.

You can listen to a couple of my songs here:

www.myspace.com/prosongwriter

As I have stated above, I have not sought out advice from any critique service.

The point that is being missed here... any FAN of music can rip into anything they want to... they can SAY whatever they want without much depth being put into it.

Again it''s about learning to seperate things....
But when you yourself refer to yourself as a song writer or musican or a pro or want to be a pro or dreamed to be a pro.... whatever it is, Then you have to be smart enough too look at your self before letting go with critisism.

If you are professional critique whatever that's worth, that's one thing, if your a fan or non fan that's another.

But as a musician or songwriter we should all think a little differently.

Jim don't think much iof Jason's lyrics and I bet you Jason wouldn't think much of Jim's either. But you'll never know that for sure right? We have the convinence of judging his but ours goes unseen by him.

Jim - I don't like those particular lyrics, but maybe he has a great or CATCHY melody.

You have to start showing something here pal All we have seen from you so far are well written humerous style lyrics, And a bunch of Cover songs on your soundclick.

Are you a fan of music who dabbles or are you a songwriter, a musician I know you sing or used to sing.. What are you doing?

Can you even stay in a room with the people who you think aren't very talented?
These things you hav eto ask yourself.

This is what is gonna get resepect from your peers : )

Love ya anyways lol....

Well Mike I do not see what my credentials have to do with it but since you ask I have a wide and long background in music.
I started at aged 13 that was more than forty years ago. I have sung with many bands and at present still singing with bands but mainly doing solo cabaret. I will not go into details other than to say that I had contractual issues and now that these have expired I am starting to write again. I have a solo album due out this summer and am at the recording stage. I mainly write lyrics as I have no formal musical education and can only play a bit of keyboard and blues harp. I have worked with some names you might recognise and a hell of a lot you won't. I have posted a few of my lyrics on the boards and have a collab with Mark Kaufman at present on Mp3 Mark did all the music and vocals I provided the lyrics. Interested to hear your opinion. It is called Just Another Day. It is a rough that Mark did in double quick time. I will be providing my vocals when I get the master.

Hey I still like ya too Jim. Just because we may agree or disagree on stuff doesn't mean either of us are bad people.

I am not saying that I like EVERYTHING Jason has written. But he has written some songs that I really do like.

I've read one of his books and I think he raises some valid points and I also think that he has given good advice. Does that mean I think he will ALWAYS give good advice? No.

Does that make him less of a person, writer, or businessman? No.

Jim, I am pretty sure you'll end up writing stuff that I will turn around and say, "Hey that was DAMN good!"....

I KNOW I have written stuff that even I have said to myself and others, "Yeah that is crap. I can't believe I ever wrote that."

We all have our good days and bad days. :-)

Couch, I do support Jason. He's good at what he does. Why would I begrudge him that?

Couch. At the end of the day, I'd still go out and have a beer with ya. We can agree to disagree yeah?

Do I have any hits on the radio right now? No. Will I? Ask me in a year.

Greg

Thanks mike.

:-)

I have to admit I am totally clueless as to the reason there is so much resistance to So called "commercial" music.
Commercial music is "what sells" If it wasn't enjoyable nobody would buy it or listen to it.
It's kind of like these threads that talk about success. Well you know what? In 63 years of life I have never met a person with money that said it mattered. I have also never met a person without money who said it did not mattter. The people that tout all this happy family bull being success have one thing in common. They all have had success in their business life. seems strange that none of them are happy about it.


This "selling out" mentality is silly. I bet if you ask any of the lyric writers here if they could get a cut by a major recording star would they turn it down? I think not.
If you asked them if they would be willing to rewrite their song to make it "commercial" Tim McGraw or Kenny Chesney would cut it, Would they say no? I think not.

I posted a couple posts about my experiences this week in Nashville. I gave examples of what went on in the Pitch to publisher and publisher critique sessions. Not one comment on either. I don't get it.

I guess I'd have to give Kudos to you Prodigies here who don't need Pro critiques or demos done by professionals but most of us are ordinary people who will take all the help they can get, LOL.

I would gladly take any of the songs I have penned and rewrite it and have the music done a different way if it would make it more commercial. This Bullshit of having my family and friends tell me how wonderful my songs are just ain't makin' it.

Sitting in on a few Profesional Pitch to Publisher events is a real eye opener. I can't believe the poor quality of most of the songs. These songs are "ART" These writers won't "SELL OUT" but you know what? They are not getting pickup up either.

I am making it my mission to get a commercial cut. I am going to figure out what it is they want if it's the last thing I do. I will write some "ART" for my friends and relatives but my focus is going to be "COMMERCIAL".

If it is crap, well so be it. As long as the royalty checks start coming in.

Bill agree with one tiny proviso popular music or commercial music whichever term you want to call it does not have to be crap but a lot, too much IMHO is. What is wrong with good commercial music? Nothing. What is wrong with bad commercial music? everything. The charts are full of what any wet assed kid could write. There are loads of folk that can write better and the record companies job is to find them. Why can they not do it? Yor guess is as good as mine. I once made a list of great local talent and provided it to a certain person I knew in the business. he told me he was looking for new talent. He did not even look at any of them. Lost the list was his excuse. Did you lose my phone number or a phone book as well I said. Apathy....
Money is the root of all evil but apathy is the trunk, the branches, the leaves and the seed. Sorry Bill for the rant but I love this business and hate to see the way it is going.

Greg, I listened to those tunes and I can see why you like Jason Blume's music. Sure we can agree to disagree. I'm not sure what we're disagreeing on, though. I think people should listen to Jason's songs before they buy his books or go to his workshops...are you saying they shouldn't?

Jim
It is no secret that you are very passionate about this business but I have to disagree with you about today's music.
Now I won't comment on anything beyond Country because that is my interest and the only thing I have actually seen in person. If the music in your preferred genre is crap then maybe you need to listen to something else.

The Publishers and Artists are searching for great songs. It is a day in day out process.
I have heard about 75 songs being pitched to publishers this week. Both of those Publishers have had a couple Number one Hits in the last year or two.
The songs they were hearing were good but they were not GREAT. they were average good. Of the 75 or so songs I heard three or maybe 4 deserved a second listen. One might make it. But I really doubt it.
One of the Publishers shared this...He had listened to about 200 songs this week alone. He had not picked one yet.
Now that was just two publishers. There are many more in Nashville looking for the next Hit. There are Publishers all over the world looking for the next Hit.

Now if it was just about money they could have taken any one of a dozen of those Average Good songs and threw some great production with triple AAA session players on them and, Viola, money in da bank. Or why even bother listening to new writers. Why not just write the songs themselves.

Aside from the lyrics being just so-so. I didn't hear more than a couple of decent melodies. Only a couple of the songs sounded like today's top 40. Most were dated and no way would they get cut today much less be a radio single.

Hell, Dylan's New album Modern Times never saw any air time as far as I know. If it did I never heard it and all you guys are putting Dylan on some high plane above the reast of the world. Well he might be but the album never got any air play.
And it does not matter how good it was if no one heard it.

I can only wish that I write something as good as Live Like You Were Dying(Tim McGraw) or Moments(Emerson Drive)
If those songs are crap then I don't know what good is.

Bill, Modern Times debuted at #1...nearly 45 years after Dylan's first album...45 years. Time Out Mind and Love and Theft were both top ten debuts. Time Out of Mind won a Grammy and he won an Oscar for Things Have Changed. all from a guy in his late fifties and sixties.

read some interviews with respected writers...his influence on pop music is immense. at any rate, I didn't bring Dylan into the discussion.

Bill you and I go back a ways and I think we are pals and can trust each other. I know very little about country. However I downloaded the US top thirty country last week and considering it was not my genre could not say that much of it was crap. I thought a lot was dated and in a timewarp but not crap.
Do me a favour and listen to some of our top ten UK pop not really my genre either. I made a list on the Songwriter get rich quick thread with my small critique about each song. See if you agree.
I say that at least half are not even worth recording never mind top ten. One or two are pretty mediocre and only two would I call worthy. Go on I dare you. You will get an education and trust me it will be worth while just to prove my point.
Musically we are worlds apart and it is worth while indulging in a little bit of intercontinental exchange.

Couch
He might have won the awards but where are the songs. I listen to the radio every day and I don't think I have ever heard a single song from that album on the radio. The only way I heard the songs were to get them off the internet.
I thought the songs were great as well. I searched for them so I could hear them.

I was not saying Dylan was not great. I was saying he seems to be ignored in todays market.

People don't have to listen to Jason Blumes songs they can't avoid not knowing them.

The person looking for his book is guess what? most like trying to learn about crafting and pursuing a hit song. Or a how to be a SUCCESSFUL Songwriter Plain & simple...

You're kidding right?

Bill,

I'm with ya on the selling out by writing commercial lyrics/music....its a bunch of hoo hah! I haven't put my finger quite on it yet....but it has something to do with musicians/writers want to be right...they want to believe there music is the next big sound and when they are told it ain't cutting it for radio well all kinds of words coming flying out of there mouths...and one of the statements usually is well commercial writing is selling out anyway...something along the lines of you can't control the way you create "art" again a bunch of hoo hah! There's a format in writing for the radio just like writing a novel or a haiku....

So I turn my little ears inward when I hear those little words and don't bother listening! Think of it as static on the radio...

This is an interesting thread and I have thought about these things many times. Over the past few months I have been examining an idea at the root of what Couchgrouch seems to be advancing: Maybe the ones we look to for mentoring are not the ones we need to be looking to, especially when we have to pay them.

There are some facts I don't often see faced by most folks in groups like this. (1) It is hard to be a professional songwriter but most of us want to do it. We desperately won't to have a song on the radio. (2) It is even harder to have more than one song make it to the radio. (3) We can't see it on the internet but all the music posting sites should give us an idea: there are a lot of people who write songs and those people inundate Nashville with songs whether they live there or not. There really are publishers who receive over 1,000 unsolicited songs a year (which is about 4 per mail delivery day) from outside of Nashville. (4) Most of us like most of the writers in Nashville will never - repeat never - have a song recorded for commercial release.

Most of the folks I know who offer a critique for a fee have had success but most have had only one radio success and for most, it was quite some time ago. Some have stayed in Nashville and have done various things connected to writing and, in my mind, have more credibility than those who are not there. Two of the "big" critiquers are Jason Blume and Barbara Cloyd. Jason has had several cuts including a top 10 and Barbara had a number one cut. Their big chart records were years ago but they have stayed in the mix. I've seen both make presentations and have heard recordings of both in a teaching session. Both have been upfront in my opinion about what they offer and their credentials. I have never heard either ever say they have the magic answer. I have heard Jason say "there is a lot of luck involved but sometimes you can place yourself in a position to be lucky" and I have heard Barbara say "I am a very little fish in a big pond."

Songwriting success is a lot like gambling. I have gambled in the stock market. I noticed after a while and a lot of expense that the experts - names respected who have websites and services and teach seminars - weren't right much more often than I was. Their techniques worked sometimes but they didn't work just as often. And a lot of it had to do with the amount invested. If you have 1,000 shares and a stock goes up 10 cents, you've made $100 not accounting for commissions. You can apply that to songwriting. It may not be true for gambling, but in songwriting, if you do more things that usually work a higher number of times, you stand more chance of winning. Jason Blume has always said he teaches about tools that most hits utilize. I sometimes wish it were different for it causes me to change how I write but I begrudgingly admit it's good wisdom.

I'd love to be as successful and as well known as Jason Blume.

One of the things Jason says to do is to analyze the current hits. I listened to every song in the top 60 a few weeks ago. I didn't use listen to the ones on top. I went to the bottom rungs of the chart and went to every myspace page I could find and listened to every one I could. There were a lot of groups. I didn't like hardly any of the songs but there they were, on the charts. The songs were uptempo and more rockish than I like. But I learned some things I need to incorporate into my writing.

Bill, only if you think a #1 album is being ignored. or top ten albums. or a Grammy. or an Oscar.

eb, this is the only idea I'm advancing: "I think anyone who teaches creativity ought to have their stuff looked at."

it's a simple idea.

The only time i have ever heard of Jason Blume is when i joined JPF...i seen references and glowing tributes about his Songwriting and his publication about how to cut it at this business...ok his musical CV is impressive,and obviously it can be backed up,as it is only too easy to find out who wrote what and where,and who recorded it...but to me personally i do not think that SONGWRITING can be taught from a manuel,BUT the business end of Songwriting is a minefield,and publications that help the novice songwriter in that field are to be applauded..because it is a BUSINESS we are all involved in,whether we like it or not...as songwriters we are, or are striving to be, recognised in the Music BUSINESS...So obviously Jason Blume has seen a niche in the market,where he can double up as a Songwriter,and also fill the wallet as a Songwriters Guru..Whether he writes mind blowing lyrics which will last the test of time,or bubblegum pop which fills the criteria at any given time ...to me a lyric is a lyric...others decide it's fate..not the writer,you can only hope it resonates with the public..so good luck to the guy..i bet ya Bob Dylan or his associates would, if the internet had been available in his time done the same thing..so at the end of the day Jason Blume is only taking advantage of to-days technology..and it is all down to whatever and whoever decides to go down that route, of reading up on Songwriting publications,,,for me ,and iam only speaking from a personal viewpoint,it is definately not my bag..i will stand or fall by my own hand...but obviously there is a market out there,so whether Jason Blume writes great lyrics or whatever,is neither here nor there,as his actual writing is only one small cog in the wheel of the bigger picture of Songwriting...and his target market is the big picture, of Songwriting........Terry..

Ande
I had forgotten about that one. I was at a Jason Blume workshop and he played this one for us- I believe before it was cut by Raye. I was impressed. I was not as impressed with his Boy Band songs that made him an established songwriter. I am equally not impressed with the songs he has posted on his website- but he doesn't claim to be a great singer.

Jim,

So that explains a lot about the McDonald corporation-it's run by a clown!

Bill, we don't hear a lot of Beatles on the radio anymore either but that is just the nature of the music industry and remember top 40 radio is driven by the mega corporations like Clear Channel. I happen to think the Dylan is the most important songwriter of the 20th Century. If the 21st Century can deliver someone of his talent, I can't wait to hear it.

I'll have to agree with couchgrouch, the best way to learn to write a good song is to study a good song. I learned something from Jason Blume but unfortunately it wasn't how to write a good song. What I learned is that people who have had a couple of hits under their belts can leverage their success to create a career out of making presentations to other songwriters. I learned that it is possible to critique a song and no matter how bad it is, you can make the person who penned it feel like they have talent. This is what I most remember about the workshop.

Couch,

I'm glad you're becoming more diplomatic. I'm working on that myself. As I've said before, you are a good writer, one of the best and certainly the most prolific internet writers I know of. I'm glad you're becoming more diplomatic though.

My post was not so much for you because you are more advanced than a lot of folks. I think some of what Jason teaches would benefit you because it matches what other people (including me) have told you.

You may want to ask yourself this question though -- Do people check out Jason's stuff because he's had commercial success or do they check it out because he's a internet songwriting group member?

I checked out his stuff because people on this forum kept banging on about how great he was. I had never heard of him or knowingly listened to any of his stuff. I expected some real humdingers of songs. Boy was I disapointed. I am in the middle of reading his book again nothing special. OK for a beginner who wants to try and write commercial clones.

Sam
I am curious what the Number ONE album status is based on. Is it sales? Pressed CD's? Distribution?
I wanted to buy the CD but Best Buy never had it.
Did you say it Debut at number one? how does that work? doesn't someone have to buy it or doesn't it have to be listened to?

I hear Beatles music on the radio every day and the beatles have not released an album for 50 years. Dylan released one two years ago. I can't remember hearing any of the songs from Dylan's last album on the radio. Now I do hear some of his older stuff but it is rare.
So clear channel is ignoring the best songwriter that ever lived. I bet their advertisers won't be happy to hear that.

Falling Slowly won an Oscar, I am still waiting to hear it on the radio too.

My point is not that Dylan is or is not a great songwriter. My point is nobody is listening.
Why is that?

I'll add to this

My two Grand daughters 22 years old and 19 years old both have Beatles CD's. Neither has a Dylan CD.
I asked the 19 year old about it. She said..Who is Dylan?

Since we keep bringing up Dylan's name, here's some of his advice to wannabe hit songwriters:

http://www.calendarlive.com/music/pop/cl-ca-dylan04apr04,0,3583678.story

Maybe nobody is listening because radio is not playing, maybe radio is not playing because the ONE that is programming for the chain of stations has terrible taste in music or is playing what he is being paid to play. It's all about dollars and not about music. Radio could care less about the music they play, it's about the advertising dollars that they get, if they are the only game in town, listeners can not switch stations.

This is priceless

Everett
What you say is very true.

But my two Grand daughters rarely listen to commercial radio. They use the internet and most of the music they listen to is never heard on the radio. They have a lot of Idie music. Their friends also have a lot of Indie Music. Some of it Local bands.
They also have a lot of oldies stuff. 60's and 70's mostly it seems.
They also like clasic rock like Buddy Holly, Elvis, Beatles, Etc.


My take on the Oscar's and Grammy's
None of the stuff is nominated by the public.
If I am not mistaken you have to be a member of the Grammy's or the Oscar's to nominate someone, you have to be a member to vote, etc.
So it is not the public picking the winners it is the industry.
It is not an indication of what the people are actually listening too.

While I will agree that clear channel owns about 1200 radio stations nationwide they cannot by law own all of them. I think they are limitted to around 10% to 20% in a given area. There is still some competetion for the listener.

Dylan said it: don't copy me. He's a specific type of artist. He focuses on his songs, but I remember when he came out...bought his first album. The hoopla was about Bob Dylan. When Dylan himself speaks about art, he doesn't separate if from the artist. He speaks about Rembrandt, speaks about the beat poets by name (Ferlenghetti, Burroughs etc.) So while Bob Dylan admonishes the songwriter to focus on the song, his audience does not.

Dylan has one of the most influential singing voices of the 20th century, the list of famous singers who were influenced by him would include John Lennon, Tom Petty, and John Prine, just to name a very few. So Dylan, though he may think of himself as a songwriter, became famous as a singer of his songs, just as Woody Guthrie did, as John Prine did, as Lennon did, as Petty did, and as nearly all of the serious, artistic writers have ( a few exceptions being Jimmy Webb and, uh, well I'm sure you folks will think of more ).

However, for the writer who composes serious songs, and aspires to be in the league with Dylan and Rembrandt, yet whose voice is not compelling, the avenues become restricted. For the lyricist, even more so. There are a few, like Robert Hunter, who find success (Robert who?).

I've known some fine writers like this who spend a bundle on demos and demo singers, never get any cuts, and don't sing well enough (or are too self conscious about their singing) to even do writers' nights. They are either independently wealthy, very poor and scraping their money together to spend on demos, or write part time. I've told the ones who would hear it, that they should find a vocal collaborator. Try to find a vocalist who fits their style and has a unique sound. Then concentrate on that collaborative "sound" to present to the world.

Then, for the writers who are the new "Tin Pan Alley" breed. Writers who love pop music and want to write hits in today's style, I recommend listening to what Jason Blume has to say. He has a proven track record and is a serious, dedicated educator, witness the first few lines of the article Ande found:

"There's more to teaching songwriting than providing pointers on how to craft the perfect lyric, according to hit songwriter Jason Blume.

It's about constructive honesty, support and hope.


And Blume should know: He has taught free songwriting classes once a month at BMI for the past 10 years. All people have to do to attend is show up the day of class and register."

Free classes, stressing constructive honesty, support and hope. CONSTRUCTIVE honesty (let the focus and agenda of your honest assessments be constructive and positive, not destructive and negative). SUPPORT (consult your team, you DO have a team, don't you?) HOPE (as Robert Heinlien wrote: "Sure the game is rigged, but if you don't play you'll never win." You can spend your time complaining about the game, or spend your time playing it.)

Here's a hint. I'll bet you can find of Mr. Blume's books "6 Steps to Songwriting Success" and "The Business of Songwriting," among his other titles, at the public library.

In my opinion, Jason Blume is a good educational resource for songwriters at every level. I recommend that songwriters read as many books, magazines, and articles about their art and craft as they possibly can. If one finds a book or article that resonates with them, I recommend they seek the author as a teacher. I do not recommend that a songwriter sign up for a course without first reading some of the teachers methods and philosophy, which can be done inexpensively or for free. I do not think it is a good idea to seek only teachers whose own work matches the students own likes and dislikes. The student then receives a narrow education. Rather, they should seek out teachers and mentors whose teaching style resonates with the student, as well as teachers whose own artistic works have been successful. You might find a teacher whose writing you just love, but discover that they can't teach for diddle. If one is blessed to be able to learn independent of an instructor, then their teachers become the artists whom they study. Still, I advise they seek out styles and genres other than those they simply "like." Othewise one gets a narrow education and, consequently, a narrow mind.

Finally, I advise students to be open to, and to seek, many teachers, as Mr. Dylan has.

All the Best,
Mike

That foot always ends up pretty close to the definitive...

Kinda funny how a lot of this turned into an armwrestling match between Bob Dylan and Jason Blume. That's downright surreal, and I'll bet they both would be amused by the notion.

Learning from Jason Blume may or may not help, but it certainly won't hurt. When it comes to knowledge, the more the merrier.

Thanks Mark, I started teaching guitar when I was fifteen, 42 years ago, taught music from kindergarten through grad school, so I can't help myself from trying to get a point across.

I loved it when Dylan said in the article that he got the music for Subterranean Homesick Blues (one of my very faves) from Chuck Berry! It makes sense now that I think about it. Maybelline. But, I'll bet back then some of the folks who thought Dylan was god would say Chuck Berry was crap.

Dylan "gets" it.

And as I recall from people I've spoken to (note my city) and things I've read, Dylan was an annoying little pest, always hanging around, always playing his "cowboy songs", always glomming ideas from others, always trying to drum up gigs. He was relentless, and he was a person who studied hard. He STILL has the sensibility of a musicologist. And I believe what broke him into fast track fame was that miraculous song, "Blowin' in the Wind".

And once he achieved fame, he learned what most learn: that part kind of sucks. Everybody wants something from you. And how he responded to all that attention really informed the rest of his career.

But I think he would be the first person to praise and acknowledge his own influences. He's pretty humble, even skeptical, about his own impact.

So, let's start a band called The Tread Drifters.

Ok, take it a step further...what books did Lennon or Dylan..or Baccharach or Berlin buy, to learn all about Songwriting...make your own stamp on songwriting...if the word follow is in your vocabulary then put it AFTER your name.......Terry...

Dylan is or was a one off. I do not rate his whiny little mono-tone voice and acoustic guitar poetry has never been my fav genre. He did pen a few decent protest songs which were OK when others sang them.
As a singer performer he is very very overrated. As a poet well it is not my cup of tea but I can see the merits and why others like him. I fail to see why he was such an influence. I bet it was a lot of people saying so just to sound trendy and hip.
I agree with Terry. Throw away the books and forget about the seminars and workshops. Write something original not someone elses clone.

All arguments aside, I think a person should think about what it is they want and then go out and get it.

Period.

If they feel they don't need workshops, seminars and how to books, then cool.

If they feel that they do need them, then that's cool too.

There is no one true road to success. Success is also in the eyes of the beholder.

If you're following your dream, then that is enough to make me smile for you.

There might not have been a Bob Dylan if not for Dylan Thomas or Woody Guthrie so I'd say he read them like a book.

I had one of my lightbulb moments about half an hour ago. I forgot and don't think it's been mentioned but Dylan was a self-contained act. Jason Blume has said his techniques are for writers who do not record. If you have the power to record what you wrote, you're already ahead.

It's important too to remember there's all kinds of ways to judge talent. The Beatles were turned down by over 60 record companies. For whatever reason, 60 decision makers turned down the biggest musical act of all time before somebody finally gave them a break. Who knows? 30 years from now Jason Blume may be the Bernie Taupin of the modern age.

Or the Dick Taupin! LOL STAND AND DELIVER.

eb, I have no idea what you've told me and I don't understand your question. do you write songs yourself?

Bill, are you honestly saying you don't know how pop albums chart? you dont know what makes a top ten album? or a number one movie? or a book make number on the New York Times best seller list? oops...gave the book one away.

Dylan gets played on the radio all the time, just on oldies stations...same as the Beatles, Elvis and others. his tunes have been covered by everyone from Marlene Dietrich to Garth Brooks.
I'm sorry you looked for Dylan's cd at Best Buy and it wasn't there. there's a term for that...SOLD OUT.

Sorry to upset you couch but to the best of my knowledge the Best Buy In Kalamazoo never had the CD, I asked for it several times.
And no I don't understand how songs chart.
How does a song DEBUT at number one. How does that happen? Doesn't the public have to listen to it or buy it before they know its chart position? The charts are manipulated by the labels for sales position. It has nothing to do with how good they are. You cannot request songs being played on the radio so who determines the radio chart position? If the listeners don't, who does?
How does a Movie the Public has not seen get nominated for an Oscar?

They release a Million copies for sale and call it Platinum. Never mind that 700,000 of them never make it out of the store room. But they shipped a Million.

I admit that Dylan wrote some very good songs but this is too much. The guy couldn't walk on water and I really did not care for the way he sings.
I saw him perform on Television once and he was so stoned or drunk he could barely talk much less sing.

He learned from copying Guthrie and then surpassed Guthrie.

And I don't think I said they never play his old songs on the oldies stations. What I said was I cannot recall hearing any of the songs from is new album on the Radio. Maybe I just listen to the wrong sations.
Most of the people I know do not even know he made a new one.

No one, especially me, is denying his role in history or his influence on music. He wrote some amazing songs but he wasn't the best there ever was and I am sure someone will come along and write some more amazing songs.
I thought Stephen Foster and George M Cohan ranked pretty high. Johnny Cash was right up there also. Three different types of music. All fantastic. Was Dylan better. In his style, probably.

I have re read all the posts and thought long and hard about the various opinions. Everybody has different likes and dislikes. Some people make loads of money from playing and or writing songs. Some are there through merit and others merits are questionable. We are all entitled to state our opinions on someone who "makes it" they are there to be shot at especially if they claim to be so great they want to write books and teach the whole world how to do things their way. If people want to read books or attend seminars great. However look at what examples are being set check out the music and lyrics and advice given. Is this the kind of music that you want to write. I say no.
I think Jason Blume is overrated and any advice from him has limited merits.
Still nobody has backed up his credentials other than to say he made lots of money and had a few boy band type hits from writing mediocre songs IMHO that any wet assed kid could write after a few guitar lessons. What is so good about his songs. Nobody has answered my question. Kids go out and buy records because their pals like them or because Simon Cowell says so. Adults should know better Oh he has sold so many records he must be good. That is fine but I listen to music and make up my own mind about how good or bad it is not base judgements on other peoples ideas.

Couch,

I'm glad you're learning to be more diplomatic.

Yeah, I write one sometimes.

Bill I have no idea how songs chart either. Only last week I lstened to our UK top ten pop songs and said how the hell did most of them chart.

Jason Blume is a JPF mentor. In addition to having his songs appearing on recordings that have sold over fifty million copies, Mr. Blume has been assistant director of A&R for RCA records and production coordinator on recordings by artists including Aaron Tippin and Englebert Humperdink. Mr. Blume offers free workshops and is generous with his ideas, as well as offering books, critiques, and lessons for sale.

Here are some reviews of his books:
http://www.roots66.com/roots66/music/reviews/blume.shtml

http://www.bookideas.com/reviews/index.cfm?fuseaction=displayReview&id=3233

http://www.thefrustratedwriter.com/jblumeinside.html

http://www.thesingersworkshop.com/a...p;parent_id=7&arcyear=&arcmonth=

http://www.thefrustratedwriter.com/jblumesteps.html

http://www.guitargearheads.com/modules/news/print.php?storyid=66

http://www.scoremusicmagazine.com/scorerocks/102004/blumejasonbookreview09-04.shtml

http://www.independentsongwriter.com/independentsongwriter/interactive/iswmstore-i.page4.html

http://www.indiebible.com/rev/robinfrederick.html



Not reviews, but particularly good interviews:
http://www.thefrustratedwriter.com/jblumesteps.html

http://musicdish.com/mag/?id=9098 (this one by Doak Turner)

http://www.musesmuse.com/chatguest14.html

http://www.absolutewrite.com/specialty_writing/jason_blume.htm

http://www.songwriterpro.com/jasonblume.html


Here's Jason Blume's website:
http://www.jasonblume.com/

Thanks Mike. I am aware of his pedigree and have read some of his reviews already I will also read some of your links. Do not have time to read them all. I do not really pay much attention to other peoples reviews as I tend to make up my own mind. I have been to too many poor quality shows and read books or seen bad movies that have had rave reviews to fall for other peoples opinions. On the other side of the coin I have seen things slated that I really enjoyed. That is what makes us all different. It must also be pointed out that there is a culture difference between the US an UK in a lot of things especially music and TV. However with all the american imported pop stars and cheap TV series we are gradually bringing ourselves down to your level. LOL

Stop playing OUR blues and rock, hater.