JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum For those of you who voted on Mike Dunbars' Genie.....

So here's an exercise....For those of you who have chosen to vote for a string of hits now, why not start writing them? Real world, right now.

Once you've got that catalog of mega hit songs, lemme ask you this question. What are you going to do with them?

Choice number 2 says your songs will be recorded by country, pop, and rock acts. It says your songs will be used in major motion pictures and television shows.

So, in real world. There are no genies. How are you going to achieve this? My challenge to you today is this. Write 1 commercially viable song. It can be rock or pop. No country music. Flip on the pop stations in your area to find out what the industry standards for hit pop songs are.

Once you have written the "mega hit", put them on your soundclick site or whatever site you use to post music up. Include a link onto this thread and lets all have a vote to which songs are the most likely to be picked up by the major players in the pop and rock worlds!

Who knows where this could lead yeah?

Greg

I would prefer to present this challenge to you rather than daydream about a choice an alleged genie has offered.

I guess I will start. Here is a temporary link on myspace that I set up with 2 songs.

1) pop/rock
2) urban pop/ hip hop

http://www.myspace.com/temporarymusicpage

Well, I done dat. "Rotten Candy," which I wrote about two years ago, swas a deliberate attempt to write something that complied with all of Nashville's "rules" as I understand them. It was also deliberately uptempo (The Biz wants uptempo songs, I keep being told), and designed so it could be sung by either a guy or a girl (obviously, I have only one of those genders mastered).

And it's not a bad song. Played it Saturday night with a band, and it *rocks*. Had professionals out in the audience tapping toes and banging heads along to the music. So it's okay. That's one reason I express my "There are no rules, only suggestions" mantra with a caveat: "But some of them are *good* suggestions."

Home recording (on the li'l Tascam--I haven't had it professionally recorded yet) is on my MySpace site.

I did submit the song to American Idol's song contest last year, and (of course) it was rejected. I have gotten quite a bit of mileage out of the rejection, most of it in the "Those guys wouldn't know taste if it bit them" category.

As for the genie, I think I'd put her (or him) back in the bottle and send it to Paramount Group or someone like them.

Joe

To fulfill the contract, do you want us to revile your songs and make fun of you? I'm not sure I can do that part of the deal.

Honesty only Tom. If you have praise. Bring it on. If you have insults. By all means, cast the stones. :-)

What you choose to say is entirely up to you. But I do prefer complete and utter honesty.

Remember, your taste isn't necessarily gonna be the same taste as somebody else. So, opinions are merely that. Opinions.

Greg

Joe. I don't know what Nashvilles' rules are. Never paid attention to all that.

Im in Los Angeles. I just write. Luckily, whatever I am writing/co-writing is getting picked up.

That's all I am asking you to do. Write a commercially viable, hit pop song. Make sure that the audience can relate to what you're writing.

Do you know the feeling you have when you have worked very hard at something and then it is finished. You can walk around town and not say a word and if you know you did something outstanding then you have a feeling of contentment. The need to be "known" is very needy and kind of pathological. For me the answer is that I would want the music to have merit first of all. If I was in public and a song of mine was being played and the folks listening to it appreciated it, I would not have the compulsion to inform everyone whose song it was.

Anyone who answers the question with, "I would take the fame instead of the merit", is partically or completely sick. But there are a lot of sick people. A survey was done asking high school boys who used steriods if they would be willing to sacrifice 20 or 30 years of their lives if they could be promised that they would win a Gold metal in the Olympics. Most of them said yes.

And for any of you who think that you are just too good to write the trash you hear on the radio and could do it if you wanted to-good luck because you have mastered the art of self deception.
There are a lot of reasons songs get on the radio that do not include how good they are but you are not going to overcome those obstacles by writing what you think they want and compromising what you think is good. That is just a big fat endulgent fantacy.

The point of this thread Samuel is to get people to take action with their dreams rather than settling for hypotheticals. If it can be done, then those who are willing to do what it takes to get it done, will.

Those who would rather live in a fantasy world will stay in that fantasy no matter who tries to motivate them away from it.

I would rather see people take a chance rather than living a life of woulda, coulda, shoulda.

Get me?

Gregory,

Those are pretty good songs if you wrote and recorded them today! OK, they are good songs whenever they were recorded. Obviously you are not sitting around waiting for things to happen. Good for you.

No country, huh. Well I can't match you in production or the singer's talent -- but I give it what I can.

Here's a "pop-punk" piece. I am not a pop singer/writer -- so here's the closest I could come (my wife helps out). Wrote the lyrics in February, the backing music is from someone in Germany and I added the lead guitar parts. The lyrics are just a "personal ad" kinda of thing from the newspaper.

Want Ad: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6273141

Kevin

After thinking about it a good long while, I'd like a career similar to Laura Nyro's... without dying of cancer young though.

I especially like the part where the first song she ever wrote at 16 became a hit (and that she's still known as quite an artist).

This probably has nothing to do with anything in this thread...
sorry, Greg!
Linda

This has nothing to do with this thread either - HI JOE! Are you an aspiring songwriter too? Best to start now!

Hi Greg, so, you wrote those songs, fantastic, I love Gravity, I'm Jealous. Naaah, good on you! You are exactly where I want to go. At the moment, my problem is money, so I hope you keep going with this post for a while, Hah.

I am going to work really hard, on writing a hit song, and remember I'm on my learners okay! Just give me some time!

DETERMINATION! YEAH!

Michele
Aussie girl from down under

Hey Greg,

OK, I'll give it a shot.....

Playing by the rules, this is a new number put together in 45 minutes, first 2 verses of a Euro-dance number, with all the cliches......

Title ; Nice Sweet and Sexy

Needs; Lyrics and melody line......

Anyone want to play...please download and feel free to add/subtract as you feel....

cheers, niteshift

niteshift......

Complete songs bro. No instrumentals.

It's not an instrumental Greg, its's a backing track for a lyricist/vocalist.....sorry, completed tracks take me about a month, at the current rate.....

cheers, niteshift

Understood. Complete songs only however.

:-)

Sorry, haven't got a month to spend at the current time....maybe later...write on.....

cheers, niteshift

Yes, Greg I "get you". You aspire to the second option. But I think Mike Dunbar was really saying that the evaluation of what we do may be as fickle as the wind-another reason to just write the best song you can. I don't know the last time I made fun of a hit. It was probably Achey Breaky Heart. Most songs that become hits are so because they are good.

Actually, I'll sign up for writing a song as "bad" as Achey Breaky heart: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EebObs-vC0

It is pretty perfect as a line "line dancing" song.

Kevin

***********************************************
Achy Breaky Heart - Song Lyrics
As performed by Billy Ray Cyrus
A #1 Country hit for 5 weeks, it also hit #4 on the Top 40 charts in 1992
The song was originally performed in 1991 by The Marcy Brothers under the name "Don't Tell My Heart"
It became the most popular and recognizable song during the line dancing craze of the early '90s, spawning it's own dance called "The Achy Breaky"
This was the first million-selling country single since "Islands in the Stream" by Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton in 1983.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You can tell the world, you never was my girl,
You can burn my clothes when I am gone.
You can tell your friends, just what a fool I've been,
And laugh and joke about me on the phone.

And you can tell my arms, go back into the farm,
You can tell my feet to hit the floor.
You can tell my lips, or tell my fingertips,
They won't be reaching out for you no more.

Don't tell my heart, my achy breaky heart,
I just don't think he'd understand.
'Cause if you tell my heart, my achy breaky heart,
He might blow up and kill this man.

You can tell your ma, I moved to Arkansas,
You can tell your dog to bite my leg.
Or tell your brother Clift, his fist can tear my lip,
He never really liked me anyway.

Tell your Aunt Louise, tell anything you please,
A simple written note is not OK.
You can tell my eyes, but watch out for my mind,
It might be walkin' out on me today.

So don't tell my heart, my achy breaky heart,
I just don't think he'd understand.
'Cause if you tell my heart, my achy breaky heart,
He might blow up and kill this man.

************************************************************

Samuel.

I'm not in the practice of making fun of other songwriters. I don't do it. You're right. Most hit songs are hit songs because they are that good.

If I end up not liking a song, I simply just won't listen to it. I won't give it any more attention than that. My opinion on that particular song isn't gonna change the other millions of opinions who may happen to like it instead. It's a matter of taste.

I aspire to do well. That is all. I don't really care if the JPF community makes fun of me for it or praises me for it.

If you go back to the original post Mikes' poll comes from, you will see that I opted NOT to vote for either option.

That is what my purpose in this post here is for. To get people to opt NOT to vote and to "JUST DO IT".

So you didn't really "get me". You threw me into the same category as everyone who chooses option #2.

By the way, I don't share the opinion that what's on the radio is "crap". Most consumers would feel the same way, or they wouldn't be listening to it willingly.

Greg

Kevin,

My challenge was to write a commercially viable pop song. Although you could say that "achy breaky heart" is one of the poppiest "country" songs I've ever heard.

I personally kinda like the song.

But yah. Go write the pop song and let me hear it.

As I said, the purpose of this post is to get people to start doing instead of just dreaming.

If you have a dream, don't pack it up and put it away. Dust that DREAM off and open up the possibilities!!

Greg

Greg, it's refreshing to hear of someone who is finding success getting his songs in the hands of artists...especially knowing it's not country, and you're not in Nashville. We often hear there is virtually no market for songs unless it's for Country (which is still a difficult market to break) or Teen Pop, or TV and Film placement.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Are you finding that other musical markets are still looking for good songs to record?

Gregory You have used the term commercially viable pop song a few times what is your definition of this expression?
Unlike country pop does not appear to have any rules or framework there are so many sub genres and sub sub genres what do you mean by commercially viable. In the charts this week there are rap, house, techno, singer/songwriter, female, male, boybands, girlbands, rock bands, fast, slow, mid tempo, some is OK a lot is just.... well you get what I mean. So what do you define as viable?

An interesting article to answer just that question:

http://www.musicbizacademy.com/articles/gf_6rules.htm

Another article to explain:

http://www.ascap.com/nashville/murphy/murphy16.html

That should clear it up my friend. :-)

Hi, Tom, yes he is, in his own way. His older sister (age 7.5) goes around singing about her life all the time, too (I predict opera for that one, or at least something with "diva" in it!).

You can hear Joe belting out his first recorded song here:
www.soundclick.com/captainofthesuperheroes

And no... nobody made him do this - he wanted to play with GarageBand and copy Mom. I daresay his song might be better 'n mine.

Enjoy!
Linda

Mark,

Other markets are looking for songs. If you know how to break into those markets.

Networking my friend is how I've done what I'm doing. Not only networking, but cultivating friendships with people in the industry and building my own credibility and getting my name out there.

I'm not going to claim I am the best songwriter/lyricist in the world....But I am doing SOMETHING right or I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing.

Do I love writing? Yes. I can't live without it.
Do I love going out and meeting people? Yes. I am a social animal and I get along with most people I come into contact with. Maybe it's my "charisma" that has gotten doors open for me, maybe not. I don't know if there is one absolute secret to breaking in. I just do what I do and it's working for me.

But yes, other markets are looking for material. Country from what I hear is the HARDEST market to break into.

The biggest thing is to write songs consumers want to buy. Record the best demo with the best production (trackwise and vocally) that you can get done. And then market yourself. The music business IS a business. Put yourself out there. You have to.

Until you have built a big enough name where others come searching for you, you have to do all the legwork.

It can be done. If you're willing to do what is necessary to get where you want to go.

Greg

Greg,

That's a really great article about Country Music Radio. Do you mind if I post it on a new thread that specifically addresses commercial success in writing country song?

Also, although most of what write is country, reggae, latin jazz and smooth jazz (yeah I know...what a mix!), I am working on a Pop song for this thread. I have the music done. Now, I have to write a lyric for it. I usually do it the other way. We'll see what happens! Let me know about the link, please. Thanks,

Al

The links I posted are for anyone to reference. Feel free bro to reference it on your own thread.

Thanks for the response, GWatt, and best wishes for your future. Look forward to hearing you on the radio one of these days.

You won't hear me on the radio Mark. I am not a performing artist. However, you will hear songs I've worked on in rotation on major radio stations all over the world very soon. That you can count on.

Greg

Hi Greg, keep up the good work, and thank you for your help. I took your great advice, NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK.

I left you a message on the other thread. "Is having music to your lyrics a must". I will keep you informed.

Your songs are a credit to you, and I won't be knocking you, we are lucky to have you here on JPF.


Your Aussie friend
Michele

Yup, that's what I mean. That's you.

And you'll be able to turn up the volume and tell people, hey, that's me.

And when you cash those royalty checks, you'll know, hey, I earned this. Good for you, man...go get 'em.

Thanks Mark. I never looked at it that way. :-)

It will feel sort of surreal when it comes to that point too.

But I will keep you posted.

Hi Greg

Just letting you know, I am working on that song, "That Mega Hit".

I just have to find, a good male singer. I have posted it on Lyric 3 Forum, it's called "Baby, you drive me crazy", let me know what you think, and remember, I AM ON MY LEARNERS.

Thanks

Michele
Aussie girl from down under

I'd like to give it a shot, is there a deadline on this cause I'm gonna need some time. This'll be interesting to see what the "hit song" pop recipe is, hee hee. I'll make sure its about booty calls, party'n, and gett'n paid all in one, woohoo. Mine will be just like the Paris & Brittany teeny bopper pop music. Bubble gum pop, here I come.

How is everyone else's pop song going? I'm about half way through. I still never got info as to a deadline on this project. Wonder if I'm the only one still participating? Hmmmm. Everyone have a good weekend:-)

It seems like you're the only one participating. But the fact that you are participating makes me happy.

There is no deadline.

Where are you based out of Indigo?

Hi Greg,

Don't think I'm a poor sport, I do have several pop lyrics but I do not have melodies. I could post them here, but from what I am gathering it appears you are looking for completed works??

Best,
Lynn
I admire your tenacity.

Yes. I want people to come up with completed works.

Now Greg, you have TWO that are interested Hah! I'm working on it.
Not reading my replies Hah! Now I'm SAD!

Can it be a Pop, Rock, wedding song? Does it matter?



Michele
Aussie girl from down under

Write a hit song. No rap or country. Other than that, use your imagination. :-)

Ok, it wont be Rap or Country, I promise!

Also Greg, I have never wrote a Pop, Rock song before, do you reckon you could post a song up that you wrote, to give me an idea of the structure.


Thanks

Michele

Hi Gregory, I'm based out of Pittsburgh, PA

You said no rap, but isn't hip-hop the same thing? I was going to place a quick cheesy rap at the brake of my pop song mix...all of the cool kids are doing it that way, these days.

Mya, Ciara, Fergie, Nelly Futado, Aaliyah, Ashanti, and more... so why not me too? :o

When I said rap, I should have clarified. No hardcore gangster stuff. lol

HELLO GREG, ARE YOU THERE? Did you read my Post?



Michele

Of course, nothing with "foul words". Just something totally playable at all of the mainstream clubs and radio stations, it has to fit with today's basic modern music industry standers. I got it...I'm half way there.

Michele, Indigo reposted a link I had posted with 2 songs I have worked on.

In case you didn't see it, here it is again:

www.myspace.com/temporarymusicpage

You can also goto these following myspace pages and listen to the songs I name here (the following songs named are songs I cowrote):

(www.myspace.com/cliquegirlz): "Don't Push Me"

(www.myspace.com/ianmaxion): "Try Imagining" and "Nothing's Gonna Make Me"

(www.myspace.com/laurendaria): "Fly Away"

(www.myspace.com/ashleekeating): "Back Up"

Hope that helps you out there Michele....

Greg

Oh and Lynn,

Part of the challenge is networking with people who do what you can't do.

I am a lyricist. Do you think I would have completed songs if I didn't go out and network? No.

So find the people who fill the void of talent you don't have. Teamwork is key. Teams succeed. :-)

If I can do it, you can.

Greg