JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum is having music to your lyrics a must.......

is having music to your lyrics a must before approaching a publisher

Lyrics are only half a song. Unless they have music it is just a poem. There are many many lyrics on these boards that do not have music. I doubt many publishers would be interested in just lyrics only. I would put my own melody and music down first or get a music writer to write a piece for you. Collabs work (if you can get one).
As a rule publishers only want the finished article including a good demo. Even then only a lucky few get chosen. You need to do your homework and get good feedback before submitting anything. Post a few on the boards to get some idea on where you are regarding viability and quality.
Beware of scammers, many try to con you by promising exposure and pitching stuff on your behalf or writing killer tunes for your lyrics etc etc it is a jungle.

Very few publishers will see just lyrics, that is true.

But sometimes you will find a few..

If you can get the attention of one of these rare birds they will put you togther with a composer.

I used to do this all the time..I had met many talented lyric writers ...
Cuz the other side of the coin are the composers that donot write words...or they are awful at writing words.

So it goes both ways.

I just had a client who only writes words...
He is pretty good and has a nice style to his lyrics..
Im putting him together with a composer I know..
We shall see what happens.

A top lyric without the music is a hard way to go ,because the words when they are sung and have an emotion behind them, take on a different meaning , than the flat word on a piece of paper..
Getting someone who has the ability to "see" and "hear" your flat words without the music is a search always in progress.

So those publishers do live...you just have to find them..
Or find your own composers..that might make more sense..

Beware of those ads that tell you they will put a melody to your words...Mostly its trash

Dude...


http://songconsultant.com

As I said these boards are full of lyrics needing tunes. Very few tunes if any posted on the boards need lyrics.
Someone said that there is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I would take my chances with the rainbow first before submitting lyrics only to a punlisher.
There are a lot of good music composers who cannot write decent lyrics. If you can find a partner to collab with that is probably the best answer.

That depends on if you want to do stictly instrumentals or do the more conventional songs, music with lyrics.
I am only trying to backstroke my way in a large ocean and don't know much about publishers outside of publishing my own work.
There is the project overseer link in my sig to where there are a lot of instrumentalists that might be able to stir you in the direction of a publisher, as well as music that can be put to lyrics.

Hope that is of value and wish you well.

thanks to all who gave advice...i think ill look in the direction of finding a composer or one who can put music to my lyrics

Just a bit of advice- the better the composer, the more likely he or she will suggest you change something about the lyric, because remember the composer is "comsumating" the song. They are breathing life into it and are responsible for- not just the notes- but the whole emotional impact that the song presents. That is harder and more rare than you might think. Box houses will flatter you and then charge you dearly to put music to your song and it will sound just as inspired as you would imagine- not very. But a thinking, feeling composer has to feel the honestly or cleverness or something in the writing before you can attact him or her.

You might want to check out the writing of "couchgrouch" here on this forum. He is a lyrics only writer whose writings are so attactive to composers on these boards that just about everything he writes brings offers to co-write with him. You can listen to some of those colaborations on
www.soundclick.com/couchgrouch

I have done a few with him. You can scroll down to "Shortest Verse" or "Rememberance" or "How many fingers am I holding up" and a few others if you are interested.

Great advice given here

I actually began writing music long before writing any decent lyrics. I devoted a considerable amount of time to learning more about writing both music and lyrics, so I would have more to offer a collaborator and to expand my own abilities.

I highly recommend maximizing your existing abilities and talents. The classes and workshops I took were by far the best investment on my times and money. I am still learning; great composers and lyricists never stop trying to improve...

I sometimes write just lyrics, sometimes just music, and sometimes both, depending on the song.

Write on! Good luck

Emily

From my own experience with my song "Don't push my button" it is the first song I have ever written. I have never sang much and I know nothing at all about playing an instrument, or writing music. When taking the lyrics to Paul, we worked together with the structure of the lyrics, and some music behind it, I went home and played around with the lyrics until I was happy with it. With in weeks my song became amazing.


My song title was actually Don't push my buttons, Paul had taken out some of the (s)'s and I liked it, so yeah changes are made a lot when working the music to the lyrics. What a great learning experience, Paul had me singing with vocals I didn't know had,and the music he added live to the song, is incredible. A bit more polish, and Wow. I am very proud of my first effort, and Paul is fantastic.

"Call a Taxi" I will be seeing Paul, as to getting some music behind it now, this helps me with the structure of the song, gives me something to work with. From my own experience, I need to hear the melody that is going around in my head, and then that gives me the confidence to work the lyrics. Lots of fun, and very challenging.

For me, I need the music, to work the lyrics.

I love JPF.

Michele
Aussie girl from down under

Hi:

We've had this conversation here at JPF before. It always strikes a tender chord somewhere deep. As Jim said, lyrics without music are just a poem. (Nothing wrong with poetry!) It's so sad that there seem to be so many lyricists and so few (comparatively) composers.

Doing lyrics without the support of a melody creator of some description can be just about the loneliest exercise I can imagine. Don't get me wrong... it's still very creative work and can be s-o-o-o rewarding to one's self esteem. Still, there is nothing "sadder" than a great lyric, crying for a melody.

Dave

I'm a lyricist.

But I have no shortage of composers that I work with who collaborate with me to come up with a complete song.

Most of the composers I work with have publishing deals with major publishers, so I haven't really needed to go looking for a publishing deal.

The story might be different after this summer. We shall see what happens.

Greg

Tell us more Greg!

Greg, I hate secrets! Grrrr


Michele
Aussie girl from down under

What do you want to know?

The story that might be different after this summer?

Michele
Aussie girl from down under

Well summer has to come before there's a story to tell!! :0)

Oh okay, I give up, I will wait. Good luck. I hope every thing goes well for you this summer.

Make sure you keep us posted.

Michele

I will give you a hint. Keep an eye out for this group:

www.myspace.com/varsityfanclub

I dunno if they will make it out to Australia, but they plan on doing some big things. :-)

how might i get a hold of paul ?

Paul who?

oh and michele, also pay attention to my myspace from time to time for updates....

www.myspace.com/prosongwriter

Brandon

Paul lives in Hepburn Springs in Victoria, Australia, if you really want to get in touch with him I will give you his email, it is
paul@sunset.net.au I hope Paul doesn't mind me giving you his email, cause I don't even know who you are. Brandon?

Michele
Aussie girl from down under

Hey Dude,

Did Seals and Croft co-write their songs or solo write them (or not write them themselves)?

Brian

Okay Greg,

You have me hooked, and you better tell those boys to come down here, to the great down under. You are so lucky to be in the position that you are in. Wow. I will keep coming back to your posts. Very exciting. I love the songs that you have written. My favorites, are Hurricanes, It isn't love, and Fly away. Fantastic.

I have to get off now, got to spend some quality time with my cute hubby, then off to work.

Your Aussie fan

Michele

Brian

Who is Dude?


Michele
Aussie girl from down under

Greg,

Paul, is the lovely gentleman, who done all the backing behind my song. And a great job, I might add.



Michele

Michele,

The label is in the process of planning the tour, cd release, and all else that goes into planning the debut of a new artist for the boys. Hopefully the world responds well to it all.

Thank you for taking the time to visit my music myspace and I am happy that you enjoyed the songs. :-) There will be more songs in the future, so keep visiting.

Btw, luck has nothing to do with how far I've gotten so far. It is a combination of talent, networking and hard work. Also never giving up. It can take a lifetime before some folks even get the break that brings them over the top. The journey has been tough, but it's worth it.

Paul is talented. Keep doing what you're doing and maybe you will be able to have your own successes too! I sure hope so.

Greg

My life has been a huge challenge, all the way, just from others hurting me real bad, I am a very honest, caring person. Everything that I have experienced has been so painful, that over ten years ago I wanted to end my life, as I was not mentally on the planet. Now I have lots to live for.

Today I am all emotional,(not a good day) I went and seen my counselor today, as I do struggle with the left overs of what I went through, and just life itself. Enough about the sad stuff.

My next song that I am working on is called "Get over it" my husband and I are going to do this one together, and we are going to see Paul this week,(Paul is very talented). I am very excited about the song. It's different, and yeah I am sure my lyrics, that I am working on, will change a lot, when we get that music happening, even my hubby has had a say in this one. The lyrics have changed a lot already, since I posted it on JPF, and I have no doubt will continue to change. Whats really special about this song, my cute hubby is singing this one with me.

Greg I wish you all the success, you are very talented, I love your work. I have no doubt the tour will be a success, and yeah I will keep visiting, your myspace, for the updates, very exciting.

I also agree, it is not luck that has gotten you where you are, fantastic Greg, you deserve success, and your hard work is paying off.

Keep an eye out for my next song hey! Give me a couple of months, as to the costs of us working on the song, we have to do it gradually.

Good luck

Your Aussie Fan
Michele

Now Greg,

I came back to have another listen to those great songs, where are they, ha, Hurricanes etc. I am pretty dumb with these computers though hey, am I doing something wrong, I can't find them.

Michele
Aussie fan

I took the songs off my myspace for now.

Getting ready to get some songs picked up by some artists and until new recordings are done, I was told I should take them off the page for now.

I'll have new songs up soon though. I'll post on this thread for ya when it happens so you can go listen.

:-)

Greg

Hi Greg

Thanks a bunch, hey. I will love to listen, can't wait.

I also just tried to send you a private message, but it went, don't ask me where, stupid computers, actually I better not say that, as it's probably me.

I am a bit stuck with my song that we are currently working on with Paul, and I wanted to see if you had the time to help me a little, as to the final verse. I am really, really, really stuck.

Jim suggested a couple of things, so I made a couple of changes to the chorus, the last verse I can't hear it at all. I'm blank.

Any way if you could help a little would be great, and I would love your opinion on what I have already done.

Thanks

Michele
Aussie friend from down under

You can email me at gwsongwriter@aol.com

What are you stuck on?

I am stuck on the third verse, thanks so much, I will email it to you.

It would be great if you could give me your opinion, as I want this song to really have a strong impact, as to the awareness of what it's like for a victim.

I am going to email it to you now.

Thanks a bunch

Michele

Hi Greg

I just emailed it to you.

I am off to bed now, it is nearly one in the morning.

Thanks heaps, Cool.

Michele

Hi Greg

I was just wondering, did you get my email?



Thanks

Michele

Hey, Greg


Why don't you pro's, do an album for us JPF's greatest hits! To many song's are getting away. You gotta go and have a listen to Pete's song on Mp3 forum, "On the other side of Goodbye". Mike's song "Bicycle" I have no doubt you would get a great album out of all these Great JPF's, and oh, don't forget about "Don't push my button" don't you think that would be good.

And where have you been, I have no doubt you must be working hard. I also miss hearing that song "Hurricane"

Your Aussie friend

Michele

Sorry.....I have been busy. :-(

Got some projects ive been working on. When stuff releases, I'll be sure to post it on here, but for now, can't say anything yet.

Greg

Cool Greg, hope everything goes well for you. I can't wait, to listen. Sounds very exciting.

Take care, and the projects you are working on, I have no doubt you will do well. Goodluck!


Michele
Your Aussie friend from the great down under

Hi Greg


Just checking how's it all going?

Also wanted to see if you have any idea's for me, I am working on a song, for Mike Caro's song idol contest, and due to my cute hubby getting sick on me, I'm a bit lost! It's called "You Rock My World", if you have the time, go to Mike's post and check out my submission, and read what Mike has said, and my replies to Mike, that would be great. Page 5 I think.

"You rock my world" maybe put something else there?

Any way, I understand that you are a hard working man, so it doesn't matter if you haven't got the time. It's cool!

Thanks

Michele

Post deleted by Michele Bolton

I think a lot of it depends on the music with those lyrics.
I originally did pop, post punk, new wave, along with some metal and avant garde influences.
I have on the net tried to stretch out into everything the rock/pop scene has touched on since the fifties.
At least from what I have listened to.
My main objective is to learn more about those influences to develop them in my songwriting to the rough schetches I have recorded.

I did'nt mention in my previous post that music with lyrics could either be a plus or a hinderance.
But if a lyricist has a good set of lyrics, putting music to that could change the perception.
I might be from the comments to what I have done be better off with just lyrics than the music from a hook up/marketing standpoint.
But I get a melody with that and that certain "song".
It is very interpersonal to me.
Either people get it or they don't, or judge what proper playing is.
But music is after all an art form and something of emotion.
It is not something that can be quantified just by a lyrical line or a musical sheet.

I hope there are still people checking this thread because I have a similar question/concern.

I write lyrics, too. However, I also have a MELODY already in mind for those lyrics.

So, is a colaborator in that case a "co-writer"?

Thanks in advance, all the best!

-Jamie

Some demo shops will charge extra to put a melody to your song but you will own the completed song, I don't recommend this, the melody may not be what you want. If you have a melody, just sing it on tape acapella, good musicians will pickup on what you are looking for and give you a complete song as a work for hire, you will own 100% of it. Never pay for a melody and give them a share of the song too.

Unfortunately, yes. Publishers aren't interested in lyrics alone. Therefore you must either decide to learn about music & melody writing, take lessons in an instrument (preferably guitar or jazz-based piano), and/or find a co-writer or co-writers who write good music in your genre. It's not impossible to learn about music making. I did it. A good resource for this is Jason Blume's "6 Steps to Songwriting Success" (which you can get from your local library) - the reason I recommend it is I found it interesting/creative and also, Jason couldn't write music either at the beginning of his journey.

H

MrsStash,
As Everett stated, if you can sing a song onto a tape or other medium you have written the whole song. As long as YOU are satisfied with it that's all you need to send to a DEMO company for a Pro Demo to be made. Anyone that wants a part of your copyright to do the demo you don't want to deal with. Demo companies do demos all the time with just a rough recording. A pretty good demo company is Eyeball Records, http://www.eyeball-records.com/

Oh Ray you have made me a happy girl! I have felt sooo very stuck and limited as someone who cannot really "play" any instrument. I am so excited!!!! My world is really opening up!

Gee I hope we are not venturing way too off topic but here is another question:

When you go to get your demo done, is there some "standard" paper work that you fill out which is saying you retain all rights to the song or is this just "understood" and implied in the contract to proceed with the demo process?

Also, thank you for the link, Ray, I am going to check them out!

all the best,

-Jamie

Hi Jamie. You can register your song quite easily. There are numerous threads on this forum telling you how.
Re a demo My advice is find a good local studio. Most will be quite happy to help you with the arrangement of your song. They will even probably put you in touch with fellow musicians who may be able to help you. Another tip is to go to local venues gigs and open mics to meet up with music people who may want to take you under their wing. Do not forget that there are talented people here who may be willing to collab and help you.

Songs are copyrighted based on melody and lyrics. To me, the guitar player is providing an arrangement by adding the chords and would not necessarily make that person a co-writer. However, this is really a case by case judgement and sometimes making that person the co-writer is justified (especially since you are not paying them as a work-for-hire).


That doesn't sound right to me.

Kevin

Thank you, Kevin and Jim.

I am enjoying these boards and learning a TON as well!