JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Where is the morality of the young people going?

If there is no god then when you die you will never know the truth. I am fighting a losing battle here cause even in death I cannot prove to you that there is no god or afterlife. However how can their be a heaven when everyones' idea of happiness is different. How can god sort out happiness and eternal contentment for billions on billions of folk with language and cultural differences plus eternity is such a long time. I for one would get bored, same old food music and Jesus doing the same old miracles to the assembled company. Thank God I am an Atheist.

Big Jim, that was one of the many questions I asked as a youngster that eventually got me kicked out of Sunday School:

Living in Heaven forever, wouldn't it get boring?
After a long long long time in Hell, wouldn't you sort of get used to it?
Can you do anything you want in Heaven? (They told me yes.) Can you kill people?
When Adam and Eve had kids, who did they have kids with?
Why did God get jealous and mad sometimes?
If Jesus will forgive all our sins, why can't we just do what we want and get forgiven later?

I write these because I think they're funny, and I don't blame the church for booting me, even though I honestly wondered about all this. At least they didn't excommunicate me. Life ain't easy for a class clown, but You Know Who made me that way...

Uh Oh,
Sorry Ladynred. Astrologers have assigned Religion to the sign Sagittarius. Since you are of that Sign may be why you are more Religious. Actually after many years of reading I have dubbed Sagittarians as half tame and half wild. A good example was Frank Sinatra. He was known to "Explode" from time to time. Probably some hard aspects to Uranus. I have done a lot of reading about Astrology also. The more you study something, the more you know about it. Of course there is a lot more to it than just the Sun Sign. Some of the best information about religion I read in Astrology Publications.

reminds me of the tale of two old blues blokes who swore a pact that whoever died first would come back and tell the other what it was like whereever they wound up.
Sure enough. After a wild session of cool blues and white lightning, one poured the other in his oldsmobile and the latter took off and wrapped it around a tree killing himself.
The surviving bloke, at the wake, piucked upo his guitar and sang.
Ohhhhh.
leroy he's gone and died.
No that can't be denied.
Old leroy has gone and died.
And there are tears tom be cried
Wonder if he'll come back and say.
What its like on the other side.

The bloke then goes into a break and lo and behold a voice rises above the guitar.
Now don't you fret none my friend.
Although my life came to an end.
I ain't for got my promise.
On that you can depend.
They accepted me up in heaven and.
They play blues here with out end.

Stunned. The other askes.

Oh Leroy tell me.
What do you do all day.
And when you jam up there.
What other cats do you hear play.
And how good is it up in heaven.
Anyway.
(Goes back to bangin ion the box some, the the voices doth come)
Well Jethro, I've jammed with Satchmo.
Ray Charles and lots of dead cats we know.
And because they all got a heavenly glow.
We don't beed no light show.
And like life heaven has ups and downs but.
I guess its alright though.

At this point Jethro Is so stunned he can only mannage a Hoochie Coochie Man tupe of groove.
and says.
I cant believe,
What I thought i heard you say.
You are up in heaven.
Listening to all the cool cars play.
So what makes it only just alright.
Tell me I pray.
(and the voice comes back with)
Oh Jethro jethro jethro.
There is something you ought to know.
The God guy has this chick.
He makes the star of every show.
She can't sing a lick but.
We don't pretend she can we end up down below.
Graham

I hope I'm not standing anywhere close to any of you guys during the next thunderstorm! LOL
If this wasn't so sad it would be hilarious.

Hey all you guys, nobody is perfect. I just try to do the best I can and I make mistakes, but I'll keep on plugging along till it's time for me to go. I just hope I get to sing with the heavenly choir. That is my goal. I love to sing and that would be perfect. Hope we can all sing together. Wouldn't that be a blast?

I have to admit, I think astrology is a lot of bunk. I think the horoscopes in the Onion have more merit than any serious pursuit of astrology.

Hey, Mrs. McInnis, count me in...but I really wanna wear the costumes like at the end of Jesus Christ Superstar! I'm serious! Hope we can still rock out up there.

Lyle/Mark,
I listened to some of your songs. I really like the acoustic, but the rock ones I listened to were pretty good,too. I'll listen to more when I have time. Right now I need to get to bed.

It should be okay AKA if God is indeed as good as claimed, as he is sure to know who to zap, and who to not zap.
Graham

Thanks for the link Bill. I was aquainted with this topic but had not seen the video. Recommend everyone watches it. Poses more interesting questions than kids morality, religion and is there a god.

Here is a little story that might interest you.
A very long time ago a very rich corrupt (as if there was any other kind) politician/businessman was asked by another corrupt politician/businessman "How come you never get found out when you are up to such no good and how do you keep people off your back?
His reply "Simple Religion and a ball."
When asked to explain he said "With religion they just spend all their time and effort believing and trying to answer the unanswerable thus diverting their energy away from me."
The question then was asked "What about the ball?"
"That is for the folk who will not accept religion. They just spend all their time playing with the ball."

That's okay just go ahead and play with your ball. LOL

Even some scientist believe in God and they usually don't believe in anything that they can't prove. They claim that the closer you examine something made by man, the worst it looks, while the closer you examine something made by God, the more perfect it is.

You can not please God without faith, if you could prove God exist, then you would not need faith. God created this world to be perfect, but Satan hates God and man, so he set out to destroy God's creation and he uses man to do it. If the bible is a book of fables and myths, man sure went to a lot of work and trouble to write it, back then it all had to be written by hand and without paper. The bible is a best seller every year, and though man and the devil tries to suppress it, it is still around.

Man's heart is evil, some are more evil than others, but we all have the potential to be a Hitler. If we open our hearts and let Jesus in, we can be saved from ourselves and from the fate that Satan has in mind for us. If we close our minds and hearts, we are lost. The bible says, we can not come unto the Father unless we come through the son(Jesus) and we can not come unto the son, unless the Spirit draws us. Seek and you shall find, if you don't seek or don't want to seek, how are you going to find.

I was 37 years old before I truly started seeking God and the truth, it wasn't long before He made Himself real to me. I thought I was a good guy, not a great sinner, but I soon realized I needed a Saviour. I am not perfect now in man's eyes, but in God's eyes I am, because I accepted His plan of salvation, through faith. To some of you I may be a fool, but God says, the fool has said in his heart"there is no God". I'd rather be a fool for God than a champion or chump for Satan.

I am not judging or condemning you, that is not my job, I'm just doing what is expected of me as a Christian, telling you the truth. If you don't accept it, I'll be sad because I will have failed, but I will have sewn the seed, if you truly seek, you too will find.

The bible says the law is written in their hearts, and in every heart there is a place that only God can fill.

I guess my viewpoint can be summed up as yes, I believe in God, but no, I don't believe in all the different rulebooks (bible, koran, torah, etc etc)...they appear to me to have been written by man. There are many different creation stories and always have been...humans have always been faced with the Mystery, and have always feared the Unknown, so great lengths are indeed what many have gone to in order to have some sort of certainty about the Unknown. But to me, the mysteries and challenges of the Creator seem to have a more obvious presentation that is too easily overlooked. It is the Square One Choice that humankind has always been faced with: deciding our purpose, how we choose to live our lives, how we treat each other, how we view the difference between positive and negative, creation or destruction, love or hate, war or peace.

So why would I believe in a loving God, but not in the bible? Am I nuts? I don't think so. There have been children born into places and into religions that prevented them from ever getting to see or know about a Bible...and yet I am given to believe they will not go to Heaven because they did not accept Christ in their hearts? I just don't buy the dogma, and I do not believe the Bible was written by God, but by people needing faith to guide and govern wayward anarchic selfish masses, and as a salve for the unbearable notion of having no physical answer to the mystery of existence. My heart, however, agrees with Jesus in a philosophical sense, pertaining to this life on this planet, of how we need to treat each other with love and compassion. I believe that love, life, peace and kindness are presented to us by God as obvious choices to emulate the creation itself...and it is left to us to figure out how to deal with those who choose to be grasping, destructive, murderous and careless. I believe Life is bigger than my own consciousness or soul, and all my memories and love will indeed be swept into the greater whole of existence. I think it is selfish of me to insist on believing my individuality should be eternal in any way.

So I don't feel especially moved by the concept of salvation. My own damnation may await me, but it is not pride that causes me to turn away from this idea. It is simply that my heart tells me God wants me to do this. That's my personal relationship with God...I have faith in it, and I believe in it. So if I am to be damned, it will be for loving God more than the bible.

You obviously have not got a clue what I am referring to or talking about. Perhaps if you studied "outside" your small narrow minded dogmatic "Bible group" YOU might learn something worth learning and stop being so insular and narrow minded.

Man this post is getting a lot of information that is out there and is getting a good airing here. Something you would not get in any Church Bible Study. I like it! I like it ! I like it !

Lyle, you think Astrology is all bunk, Are you perhaps a Libra? Libra's don't believe in Astrology. Actually Astrology isn't something you believe in, it actually works pretty well, But you don't need Astrology, or Christianty to be a good moral person.
Everyone, even non-believers read their Horoscope every day in the paper, don't they?

Big Jim, you are much closer to the truth than you might imagine.
Everything goes in cycles and will go on forever so you will live many lives and then many more. You probably may be what is known as a Very Old Soul having already lived many lives. You, as I have, already seperated fact from fiction concerning the current fad in moral study, Christianty.

There have been a few instances of where someone came back in a new life very soon and remembered things from the previous life and identified places they they were and things about their previous life.

Another famous case was when Johnny Horton had a premention he would be killed in a car wreck. He told another person Merle Kilgore he would send a message to him if there was an afterlife that only Merle Kilgore knew. Sure enough Johnny was killed in a car wreck just as he had said.

I think it was 7 years later when someone contacted Merle Kilgore, a medium, I think, and told Merle he had a message from Johnny Horton. The message was the message they had decided on. The message was: THE DRUMMER IS A RUMMER AND CAN"T KEEP A BEAT. True story.

Jesus was an ordinary person, no more no less experencing all the human conditions as any man. Of course organised religion says this was all pre-ordained and was supposed to happen. Now how do you think all this was "known"?

Is it possible that Astrologers, reading Charts saw it in the charts? You cannot escape your destiny no matter how hard you
try.

Yes, when you enter Heaven, you will have nothing to do, it will all be done for you, right?
Lyle, you SHOULD NOT ask those tough questions!

Jim, I don't get your combative response to Mrs McInnis? You wrote:

\

You have stated, basically, that you do not accept religion. That was the basis for Mrs.M's joke, which frankly, I thought was pretty funny.

Big Jim

Sheesh,
Why are you so angry.
It is fine for you to believe as you do. It is fine for Mrs. M to believe as she does.
But Lighten up big guy. You're gonna hurt yourself.

Accept that true believers are going to be just as passionate about their belief as you are about your non-belief.
It's OK I promise.
The sun will set tonight and rise tomorrow.
And there will be another 6 or 8 inches of snow on top of the 8 we already have.
I'm heading south in the morning.

Right now I have to go outside and fire up the International 454 farm tractor and plow out my drive

Aparently so was Hercules... Born of a mortal woman, Son of the Greek representation of God.... One of the mighty men, which btw are mentioned in the Bible.... Sadly although Hercs did want to do good, he kept on accidentally killing people with his club....

That is possibly why this time round God had Jesus preach good through peace and love instead of with a club...

Hercs was of course was several thousand years before Jesus... According to the Greeks ... God (aka Zeus) and his children did this in several times... (a fact also noted breifly in the bible)... in different forms sometimes as men sometimes as beasts once as a Bull... the Christian Bible does skip that bit though... but could it be that is why the Isralites chose a golden calf to worship?... Just a thought

Cheers

I was just replying to yet another combative attack from Ladynred. Please re-read all her posts again.

I do not have a problem with anybody who has their own beliefs and can accept that others have differing and valid opinions. These people can rationally discuss and debate the various issues as can I.
I do have a problem with narrow-minded indoctrinated religious folk who obviously have little knowledge or experience of other peoples views and take for granted that their belief, which is usually deeply flawed, is correct and everybody else is a heretic and completely wrong.
If it pleases folk I will refrain from replying to the woman's posts again so as to not offend.
I have studied religions of all sorts for many years and see so many flaws in most if not all organised religion. It maddens me to think that some folk think they are so self righteous when in fact what they mistakenly believe in is the root cause of most of the world's problems.

Jim, don't be mad. It makes you sound self righteous.

I am really a nice person underneath the harsh exterior. Or is that too self righteous.
I get regular visits from Mormons, Jehovah witnesses and baptists. Word must have got around that they will get a good argument and grounding and I think it has become part of their "training run" So far none have even been close to answering any of my questions. They are totally gobsmacked when I can usually quote their bible straight back at them and point out where in my opinion the flaws are. Surprisingly very few actually know much about other religious beliefs when I mention say the Quran sadly they are usually totally ignorant as to it's contents. Before adopting any belief I think it is important to check out the "competition" Shop around. It might make more sense or be a quicker or easier way to follow a dogma or get into heaven.

And they all lived happily ever after.

THE END

Now Lyle that was funny! LOL

I used to love that show "Columbo". Peter Falk always gave this impression to those under investigation that he was a fumbling, disorganized, not that bright investigator...bit alas...he was quite shrewd and perceptive.

Yeah.
Just one more thing.
Where is the morality of young folks going these days?
Graham

No where.
They are too busy arguing about religion.

LOL!

So that's where their parents learnt it from then.
Blinking kids.
They have a lot to answer for.
Graham

I Blame Columbo.

It seems to be cooling down a bit here, so I won't fan the flames, I've no more pearls to cast. Have a happy new year.

Big Jim,
I was only trying to lighten things up since you were so downright serious.

Big Jim,
I get visits from Jehooveahhahs Witttnesssess too. I try to give em a good lessen before they leave. I guess they don't know this is the information age. I am armed to the teeth with information.

I do not want to start this whole thing off again but thought you might like to hear how I became so angry and involved in theology.

I became an Atheists at a very early age. My first run in with religion was when I was six years old. It was Easter and our schoolteacher was telling us about Jesus dying on the cross. I had already been told about the miracles and other good deeds he had performed and that God who was all powerful was his father. I could not understand why anyone would want to kill such a great man. I asked the question which I still to this day have not received an answer for. WHY. Of course there was no answer given except that he died to save me. FROM WHAT. Still no answer.
I then asked what was to be the $64000 question. Why did God not save him or why did he not save himself as they both could do magic? My teacher gave a little embarassed laugh and then just sort of forgot about my question. I asked her again and this time she said that God had decided that it was to happen. "Well my dad would not be that cruel and stupid." Of course I was then told that God is not stupid. "Oh yes he is. If he could see everything and he is so all powerful how come he let a few soldiers kill his son." We then moved quickly on to counting beads and threading them on a rope.

That episode had such a profound effect on me that I decided to learn about God and Jesus. I of course have now learned about a whole host of other religions and beliefs. So far none of them have appealed to me in any way and my enquiring logical mind usually finds grave concerns about the validity not to mention the appalling cruelty and hypocracy of most. If there is a God then man has not done him any favours by worshipping him. He himself has not done himself any favours by hiding in the closet for billions of years from man. Although it is an interesting subject.

Jim,

He didn't exactly let His son die. He was/is His Son. If he lived and then went up in a gold helicopter saying, "So long, folks, thanks for the "hosannas," now y'all love Me!" everyone would be bitterly complaining that he snuck off into the clouds while we stay here to suffer and die. The way He chose to do it, who are we to complain. He showed us how to live and how to be brave. He didn't die bitterly, rejecting heaven and cursing earth, or being bitter or angry against his murderers. No, he died forgiving, believing, and loving. Then he lived on after death. It was an example so we could and would do the same.

Absolutely my last words in this thread.

Mike I did not want a reply I was jus stating how I am so angry about the whole Jesus thing. Your explanation is not exactly correct. According to the BIBLE Jesus said "Father why hast thou forsaken me." cause he obviously had. If anybody nails me to a cross as you suggest we should all have done then I would be pretty bitter and twisted about it. No I for one will not be following his example. and that is my final word on the matter.

Jim, I did not want to reply, but when I read the old argument of the "Father, why hast thou forsaken me." argument, a question which many people ask, I just had to respond.

"Father, why hast thou forsaken me." was not a question, it was a paraphrasing of Psalm 22, which begins: "My God, my God, why hast Thou fosaken me." and goes on to describe prophesies which would be fulfilled on the cross. Give a read to Psalm 22 and see if that isn't obvious.

Jim, I did not want to reply, but when I read the old "Father, why hast thou forsaken me." argument, an argument which many people make, I just had to respond.

"Father, why hast thou forsaken me." was not a question, it was a paraphrasing of Psalm 22, which begins: "My God, my God, why hast Thou fosaken me." and goes on to describe prophesies which would be fulfilled on the cross. It's a passage the disciples would have known well. Give a read to Psalm 22 and see if that isn't obvious.

Mike I am very sorry for replying but it was a test or a bit of a joke for my own amusement to see how much you knew about the subject in question. You obviously have studied and realised what I was referring to. All credit to you I did not think you would actually understand along with most others the controversy around the words. My point was that what jesus actually said is a bit of a mystery. Some say it is The Lords prayer opening others say he was just rebuking god for foresaking him or simply due to a mistranslation from Aramaic just calling for water. We will never know but it sure puts in question the fact that the Bible is taken literally and is assumed to be true and acurate. This is very foolish thing to do. Interpretation is a very dangerous thing Chinese whispers and all that.

If kids bully teachers into giving them good grades, and teachers are happy to do so, it's because they both place greater value on abstract concepts than on reality.

People who steal lack empathy for their victims: either they believe no one cares about them, or they're mentally defective. People who love don't steal and don't bully.

Morality is on the decline because people live with more fear than love: fear of failure, fear of success, fear of rejection, fear of acceptance. People who fear place themselves first. People who love place others first.

I tend to agree with that one, Richard.

"Fear is the mindkiller."
-Frank Herbert

I haven't posted on the boards for about a month.. and saw this...I won't keep posting but did want to say something.

Where is the morality in youth?
...Like many others, I would not look just at the youth.

I don't think we (society) believe morals have changed because we slowly over time change with the changes. If a pot of water starts out as being tepid....and ever so slowly gets warm...and then by small degrees gets warmer still over time, would we realize it was getting warmer? I don't think we would. NOT until it got so hot one day that we'd wake up and say "how did it get this hot?".

God or Not.

I am a believer and yes I believe the Bible is God's Inspired Word. But if I was speaking to an unbeliever, I'd start by suggesting he or she look at proofs such as Design in Nature, Laws, Answered Prayers that were nothing short of a Miracle,
Creation requiring both a Creator and a Sustainer, and Life coming from life.

Just a few and I'll be quiet...because I don't like to babble on about my beliefs...but If I'm questioned, I'll answer...or
like this...topic, I'll speak up if I feel like I can offer something.

We're all born into a ready made world. Many of us, like Jim
is saying, do NOT question what we're taught. We don't take the time to research it out...we trust...we believe..with out
taking the time to really investigate what and why we believe.

It's been stated in evolutionary textbooks that the "big bang" started with an exploding atom.....hmmmmm...If true, who created the meticulously designed atom, which in itself is like a little universe...incredibly complex!!!.... Some folks will say Christians are crazy for believing "In the beginning, God"...yet...will say..."In the beginning, the atom". In order for an atom to have started everything...
A Creation, itself, had to be in place. Because it took an incredible designer and sustainer to make the atom to begin with. Pull up and study the atom in any search engine and
see if you feel it required a designer.

The laws of Gravity and physics are absolutes!!...They required both a Law Giver...and A sustainer. I don't wake up in the morning and Thank God for the laws of Gravity...but I really should!!.What if there was not
a sustainer?.( even for just ONE second?)..

Answered Prayers. Like many others I don't like to see deceitful practices like "some times" are shown on tv...where
someone who really isn't sick to begin with starts ...miraculously jumping about. But there are many doctors out there who would agree with the statement..."The only possible explanation was a Miracle."

Life coming from Life.(life coming from the LIVING not inanimate). I had parents, my dog had parents,
cows have parents, etc..... Life comes from Life.

and...Design...
God says...that we can know he exists...by looking out our windows. (paraphrase).
Snowflakes, the human body, the colors of a sunset, the patterns of stars in the sky, how the ocean waves come so far and then stop, and just being able to breathe in.........and breathe out each day... I'm thankful there is a God.

But like you, Jim...I would get bored playing a harp and floating on a cloud for eternity. Thank God....I believe He has something much greater for us planned than that.

and why is there such heartbreak,pain and sickness about?...God explains that in the Bible in the book of Deuteronomy in the old testament....I'm doing this from memory and I think it's chapter 28....Basically it comes down to we're stubborn....., we think we have all the answers...and can solve all our own problems...God's giving us a certain span of time to allow us to do just that..(try). That's why He doesn't always intervene. Thankfully, There will be an intervention when He will once again send his Son to this earth....at the point where humans would wipe every other human off the face of the earth.

One other thing....How many atheists are there...on a lifeboat..adrift in the middle of the ocean...with sharks circling about..?


the very best to you all,
Kaley....


Piano Melodies by Kaley and Demos:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=8404&content=music
Children Songs:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=6469&content=music
Wyman and Kaley's Andy & Friends CD
http://cdbaby.com/cd/kwwg

Hi Kaley Go on then How many Atheists are there? I guess none cause the Christians all threw them overboard.

Hummn,
To be sure the Jury is still out on Christanity.
How did we all come into Existence? Truth is nobody knows.
Some think there is Chaos in the Universe, some think there is Order (Destiny).
Truth there is Order (Destiny) even at times is is Chaos.
Free Will? If you think you have it I have a little test for
you. Just will me up, say 100 pounds of gold in 25 pound packets. You will know where to send it.

God? Yes there is something. God is as good a word as any to use. But how do I know you all actually exist and are not a figmant of my imagination? How did I finally answer that question because you could all be a figment of my imagination.

Well I know I exist, I think, so all of you must exist!

Believe? You can believe anything, it doesn't make it true. At one time people thought the world was flat and if you got too close to the edge you would fall off. At one time people and the Church thought the Sun rotated around the earth.

A lot of people think Jesus is Devine. Everything I find over nearly 60 years decries that theory. I realised very early I am not superstitious.

So what happens to us after we die? I have no doubt that we come back again and again as another person and live another life.

Be a good person? Of course. I was trying to be a good person long before I ever heard of Religion, Jesus Christ, or Church.

I was extremely dismayed when I heard that you had to go get saved or you would burn in hell. I already knew that to be false and rejected it very early. Nothing has come along to change those facts. Enjoy your life but check the facts for yourself.
I am.

They don't burn you in Hell. They make you listen to Britney Spears albums, over and over and over and over...

I agree that FEAR is the greatest motivator of people. Much greater than anything else.

Yeah fear of the unknown so they have to make something up to cover the fear. Hence religion and the god theory was thought up.

Well Jim
You ARE relentless here...but...I meant in every aspect of life in general. When people feel fear they will act...immediately even...this could be fear of
missing out on something
the unknown
making a mistake
etc etc
Fear will cause people to act faster than any other reason
And Yes people can turn to religion out of fear...but there is a thousand other reasons...
Big Jim----------
You've said everything you can say on this topic...time to let it rest
My LAST comment on this thread is that I'd much rather someone believe in something...whatever it is...it gives them hope...without hope, life goes downhill rapidly

Kaley,

Was your list intended to prove the existence of God? If you have faith, what is the purpose of proof? Is not a good definiton of faith a belief in that which is unprovable?

In short, your proof is not proof. Or, at least, it is proof only to those who already believe it.

As to athiests in lifeboats and foxholes and the like, I think you must certainly know that history has many instances of nonbelievers "seeing the light" and becoming pious. But there are also many instances of the pious losing their faith. Especially during wartime and other calamities, both occur. So what conclusion are we draw from that?