JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Music Theory and Education Recoginize chords?

How well do you hear chords? Do you need to check them on an instrument? Can you recognize a minor chord? A seventh, major seventh, ninth?

I can hear 'em, Mike, chords and intervals. I can name keys, too, though sometimes I'm off a half step or so.

Of course I can Mike. And when all else fails I read the instructions. P.S. Those cord diagrams look so easy in those books until I try to strech my fingers to fit.

Quick! What Key is Beethoven's 9th in?

Which section?

In a word, no. I's mostly tone-deaf. Tell me what key it's in, and if it's country or blues (both of which are pretty predictable progression-wise), I can usually follow it--maybe even play lead, sometimes. Alternatively, if I can watch the rhythm guitarist's hands, I can figure it out, too. I can usually spot a minor (and no, not because of the mining equipment<g>) because I'll notice it sounding a little "off." Which minor is it? I better be able to see your hands.

Joe

P.S. For the foot: Old Indian proverb says never criticize a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. That way, you're a mile away--and you've got his shoes...

Nope. Not me Mike. I can pick a melody out by ear, I can find what key something is in most times the same way, but figuring what the triad or better combination is at any one time, I am totally lost at.
Graham

Hi Joe, if you can tune a guitar by ear, you're not exactly "tone deaf." You may have losses of some frequency areas.

Graham, thanks. I couldn't pick 'em out either, had it beat into me in college.

Ray, you probably haven't had a chance to get back so I'll answer: d moll, then B (warning: trick answer).

Mike, I can't tune a guitar by ear. I use one of those electronic gizmos. Alternatively, I can use laws of physics--if you have two strings that are the same note, striking one will vibrate the other--but I still need someone to give me an accurate note to start with.

Joe

Humm,
I don't think Beethoven ever heard of d moll maybe B. In fact I don't think he could hear at all when he wrote the 9Th. But Ceaser Franck also wrote a Symphony in the same Key. Ok d moll or D minor.

Nope.

I can recognize if it's a major triad, and if it's a minor. I'm starting to recognize 7ths (I like them a lot... and now I know what to call them, yay!).

I tend to write in Ab, Eb, or F most often.
I have to sit down at the piano and plunk out what I'm singing to figure out what key I'm in.

But as far as WHICH major/minor or WHICH interval the progression went into... forget about it...

I hope to learn. I listen to the radio sometimes trying to figure out "what was that?"

...But this is coming from someone who'd have said "Chords? what are chords?" about a year ago... so I'm coming along!

Linda

Joe, let me amend that...if you can sing fairly well in key, and you can, you probably don't have "full blown" tone deafness.

Ray, you got half the trick. D moll is d minor auf deutsch. Also, in Beethoven's time, the note we call B was called H, the note we call Bb was called B. They changed over around the turn of the 20th century. So the 9th is in dm with the allegro section in Bb.

Linda, you're doing wondefully. Keep at it. How're the vocal tracks coming for "Lie to Me?"

All the Best,
Mike

Hi Mike, thanks for asking!
I'm swamped right now--this was the 1st post I've made to the board in what feels like ages--We're in the middle of final rehearsals for our Christmas production, "Savior of the World," which runs Nov 30-Dec 1. I'll really miss it when it's over... but meanwhile, that plus basic housekeeping is taking up 100% of available time... yikes.
Still have to sew about 6 costumes for it too!!

While we're semi-on-the-topic... if you still have it, someday I'd love to see the chart for "Lie to Me" so I can know what-all I actually DID in that song. LOL!!

All I know is the backing sounds dead-on right, so YOU at least know what you're doing!

Looking forward to working on it, but there has literally been nada zip zip zippo time to spend on my own music...
Glad you asked though, I haven't forgotten!

Linda

Interesting quesiton, Mike!

Yes...I hear chords ( not cords) in just about everything...I studied piano and theory, so that information about chord structures is deeply embedded in my mind! I can ususally figure out music by ear, based on the chords. I can pick out major, minor, seventh chords, diminished, augmented, etc...
When I listen and look at a piece of music. the chord structure is the roadmap for me.

Thank you to all of my piano teachers from my childhood

Emily

I remember a piano player who was auditioning for our country music band. he was about 19. He had never heard the song "Crazy" by Patsy Cline (we had a woman lead singer at the time). So we played him the song once and he played it perfectly the first time with the band. I remember playing a weird guitar chord for him and asking him if he could identify it. He named all 6 notes and then gave me the name, something I didn't know. I remember thinking, "Damn, I guess they really do teach you something in music theory"

I can see how with training anyone could probably learn to identify chords. It is easy to recognize a major triad, minor, a 7th, major 7th and even easier to recognize a suspended chord; so I guess if you just practiced, in a few decades, it might come around.

I definately don't have perfect pitch but when I was a lead singer and I started a song 'cold' I was always on pitch and every time it happened I would say to myself, "Man, how did I get away with that?" If I had stopped to thing about it, I would never have been so stupid. And yet I cannot think of a single time that I got burned. "When ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise"

Music is approached and understood in many different ways.

Music theory is a way of mapping it all. When Sam hits that note without thinking, it's because he naturally feels how it will need to be sung--his body tenses in all the right places to hit that opening G without thinking about it. Music Theory allows us to name all the notes and chords and keys, and to write them in a language that others can decipher. All the "rules" are up to us.

Hey Emily, I had it pounded into my thick, unhairy, skull. Mostly, I thought of chords in terms of shapes, the shapes my fingers made on the grid of strings and frets. Gradually, it got to the point where I could hear the majors, minors, diminsheds, augmenteds and on to the ninths. I can fairly well hear up to "garden variety" thirteenths, or simpler nine flat fives, but those clusters give me fits.

Sam, some folks hear them easier than others. You can train someone with a decent ear, but some folks hear them right off the bat. I vividly recall trying to figure out the chords to a song on the radio that had me stumped. I sat with my guitar and pencil and couldn't get it. Nowadays, I rarely use a guitar or piano when I chart chords, just listen to the songs and write. Once in a while I'll hit a song (not mentioning any names....LINDA) that takes a little work, but again, I wasn't born that way, just had it whipped into me.

Lyle. You're exactly right. When Sam hits a note, he's either using "sense memory" or he's tuning into the infinite. Think about whistling. When folks whistle tunes, they aren't using frets or note names or electronic tuners, they're just whistling. I fully agree, the rules are up to us.

Good Stuff All,
Mike

The reason I think Sam can start the song in the right key off the bat is because when you sing frequently your body becomes accustomed to resonating with certain notes. I find it relatively easy to start off a song in E, D G or A because I have sung so frequently in those keys the resonance is very familiar to my vocal chords. I often can recognize other notes also simply from familiarity to the resonance. I believe for me, like Mike, it is developed over time from frequent application.

bwahahahahahaa

May I just say, Mike figured them all out correctly too!

Linda

I took a few guitar lessons form a music shop when I first got my acoustic in the early nineties.
Keys are my main instrument.
I don't know much on guitar outside of how some subtle minor key shadings can swing a songs mood.
Especially with goth rock. But then there is overkill.
I used to tune my electric so loosely that it was like spaghetti, pretending I was Bauhaus or some death metal band.
I was told to bring my acoustic for lessons. And my teacher, who was a big folk and prog freak, taught me "Dust In The Wind". I believe the chords were C, G, A Minor and D.
Although there may be different variations of it, I never got a Kansas song book.
I learn guitar songs mostly ny ear.
Everyone recognizes the song without me having to say it too.
I did that with "Roundabout", plus some Pink Floyd songs.
My only other exception to not learning by ear was "Hotel California".
The chords are actually pretty basic to that song, but it's that finger picking rythmn that throws me.
Tab can be hard for me to understand too because some songs are tuned differently or at a different pitch.
I am for the most part tone deaf.
But I can often nail songs by ear.
And of course, I learned those metal songs like "Shout At The Devil", to those ones that every kid of that era learned, "Iron Man" and "Smoke On The Water".

I plan on taking a music course online.
I would like to kick out a cd, but would like some practical, more hands on experiemce.
But reminincing through my kiddie bag has been fun.

Hey Mike!

Being a pro piano tuner for 31 years has me hearing more than chords!

Realy though, before that, at 7 through 10 years old, I was trained by my accordion teacher to hear everything I was reading and playing. He said to "play by heart", and know what and why certain chords gave off a certain mood for any given song, (in so many words of course). I didn't really know what he meant then, but I could pick out all the chords he would play, (after time), as well as their inversions, (starting with the root note as the chord's first name sake.

I haven't kept up that practice of it, as when being taught once a week, but I guess it comes by second nature now, with playing in past bands and figuring the chords out for the band, tuning pianos, with all the intervals I have to check, (beats and all), and just from hearing and playing songs for years and looking down at my fingers and seeing what I'm playing as I'm hearing it.

So, yes. (in so many words!) augs, dims, 6ths, maj7ths, 9ths, with out without the 7th, Ha! Etc. Just don't play one note from nothing and ask me what it is. I have trained relative pitch, but not perfect pitch. (That was the first thing the piano tuner old timer asked me,,,if I had perfect pitch. When I thought I wouldn't get the job by rightfully admitting I didn't,,,he said something like "Good, you got the trainee job"! He said that my good relative pitch is what's best for piano tuners, since some pianos can't be tuned in pitch for various reasons, but can still be tuned in relative pitch, (like a quarter step down or more,,,or even some players that want theirs a certain way, sharp of flat of A-440. I tuned some in A-442 by ear for the European concert players, (some called themselves pianists). I wanted to say, "that's a shame,,,,they do have bathrooms here"!

John

Hee! Like the old Fawlty Towers routine: what sort of dog is that? He's a little Shih Tsu! Oh, sorry to hear that...

Yes, I have "relative pitch" too...wouldn't know a perfect note, but I can usually name notes. The way I can guess them is by imagining the sound of certain chords--like an E major guitar chord--and doing the walk-up in my head. So, rather than immediately naming the pitch, I suppose I deduce it.

Mike,

A direct answer to your question: Yes I can distunguish all but the really "far-out" chords when I hear them. I can hear a major, minor, 7th, 6th, augmented, diminshed, 9th, 7th-flatted9th, 11th, 13th, major 7th, major 6th, major 9th, suspended 4th, etc. And, I actually know how to use them! But, as I have told you before, I cannot read notation what-so-ever.

But, I would not know a 13th-sharp5th-flatted9th if I heard it, as an example. That's one of those "far-out" chords I was referring to (Okay, grammarians...to which I was referring). I do not mean far-out as in "hey, cool!", but as in extremely uncommon.

You might...or might not...have listened to some of the jazz guitar instrumentals I do that have zillions of chords in them. I know what they are and how to put them together correctly (well, usually)...but couldn't read a note of it if you put it into notation.

I play exclusively by ear. So, I have taught myself to listen closely and so far, itis working okau for me. but, I would agree that reading notation...or any new skill learned...would be a plus.

All the best to ya!

Al

Hey Linda, just a lot of sweat and chewed nails

Matt, you've come up through the "School of Rock," actually a good way to learn chords...the guitar is very "chord friendly."

John, the life of a piano tuner! You must hear the beats in all the chords! Yeah, we had two professors in college who had perfect pitch, one 440 and one 442, and they fought like cats and dogs...when they played together they sounded like it too

Lyle, I relate chords like E to the shape they form on the guitar. I have relative pitch, or at least relatively so, getting within a half step by singing my lowest possible note, and moving from there. Similar method to yours.

Al, you're Mr. Chord, that's for sure. Yes, I love your jazz guitar stuff. Again, no need for you to read music unless you just want to do it for fun, you know more theory than the vast majority of music readers. It's just in your own language.

Good Posts All,
Mike