JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Recording Studio and Gear Forum Logic Studio is here!!

The new Logic Studio is now available. Featuring Logic Pro 8. A major upgrade and change to Logic. I've already ordered my copy it will be here tomorrow. Woo Hoo. Impressive new stuff and design.

Here's a link: http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/

Enjoy and don't slobber too much.

Powerful Recording software for a great price $499.

I ordered mine standard delivery so won't get it until next week sometime. It looks like a really nice upgrade - it will be MUCH easier to learn, I'm sure.

I didn't see a lot of new bells & whistles, but the workflow and general ergonomics seems much improved. I hope they concentrated on making it stable and getting rid of some of the bugs in 7.2.3.

Well being that most high end audio programs are pretty mature now, I'm thinking there isn't much to improve other than workflow.

There's quite a few big things they've done though. Sample accurate editing ala pro-tools in the arrange window.

Comp swiping - that's huge! Major time saver there.
Multitrack record editing that is a lot easier, another time saver.

The delay designer plug is slick. I've been looking for something like that for a while.

A customizable interface and the new general layout looks great to me.

From my grapevine I've heard that it's a major step up except for one thing. Apparently there's no more "bus" objects. The way Logic 8 deals with busses is apparently different and because of that difference it has issues with importing songs done in older versions of Logic. Thus it means keeping a version of Logic 7 around when you want to make sure you've got it right in terms of your old mix.

You generally don't want to upgrade in the middle of a project, but since I'm in between things it's gonna be easy for me to make the switch. And I'll get to import a project to see how that problem rears itself.

I'll be staying up late I'm sure. :-)

According to FedEx, I'll be getting my copy on Friday. Two days after ordering - and I used the "free shipping" option.

From what I've seen on the boards and in the PDFs from Apple, it looks like they've worked hardest on the ol' "Logic is powerful but has a steep learning curve". The simplified interface should help a lot, and they've renamed some of the exotic terms like "audio objects" to simply "channel strip" (duh!) and "Environment Layer" to "Mixer Layer". They've really spent some time on workflow and ergonomics, although I believe they've gone mostly grey for the color scheme to match the rest of the Pro Apps from Apple.

Adding in all 5 of the Apple Loops expansion paks for free was a smart move to get people up and running quickly. Templates for songwriters, video scoring, Rock Bands, etc all should contribute to lowering the learning curve and getting some sounds out of it quickly.

For $499 for the entire package (or $199/$299 to upgrade from just about any version of Logic or Logic Express purchased in the last 5 years), Apple has definitely set a new standard for "bang-for-the-buck" software. I paid $999 for the earlier version and it didn't have everything this one has.

I'll be up late over the weekend, for sure...


Jody said:
"From my grapevine I've heard that it's a major step up except for one thing. Apparently there's no more "bus" objects."

I won't miss them. I ended using aux objects almost all the time since they were more flexible.

I spoke too soon on the bus thing. I was hearing that second hand. I've installed it and started messing around with it. I'm still getting used to the new look, but I like it.

"busses" are still around. But they're now created under Aux objects.

Environment <> Mixer. The Environment is still the Environment layer - something that is used by super hard core MIDI nuts.

The Mixer layer is still the mixer and is the portion where you see channel strips for everything used in your mix.

I cruised through several hundred pages of the manual while working on the installation of the program. You can color certain aspects of the workspace as you desire. But the window frames are the grey that is consistent with other Apple Pro apps.

There's a new Binaural panning option, very cool.

There's full support for surround sound mixing! Yippee, been waiting a long time for that.

I'm about to do a mix of a new song so I can try out the new Comp Swipe function. This should really make workflow in Logic rule compared to other programs.

It has a customizable main tool bar. Love that.

And a new delay compensation switch. Awesome for when you're tracking new material. Something I've been in need of since Logic introduce plugin delay compensation.

One thing I have found already is that you can't run Logic on two computers at the same time with the same serial number on the same network. That's a bit of a bummer. It has some check that somehow sneaks around firewall blocks.

Other than that, I'm still awake messing around.

Wow..4am? I was only up to 1:30am...

It took about 3 hours to load all the DVD content. 8 DVDs! (one is demo material only), but still, that's a LOT of stuff - around 40GB of disk space required for everything.

It is definitely way easier to use than the earlier versions. It looks like a bunch of bugs have been fixed as well...still trying things...I don't really like all the grey color everywhere, but I can live with it.

Sample-based audio editing in the arrange page. I've been waiting for that. I just edited a guitar part I imported and the audio editing seems to work much better...

Oops...Stylus RMX doesn't have multiple outputs availabe. Apparently, there's a couple of threads on the Spectrasonics site about it already. I've also heard that BFD is having some issues and will have to provide an updated plugin to fix it.

I'd be surprised if a "dot zero" version doesn't have a few kinks to iron out, but I haven't seen any showstoppers for me yet and it seems that many bugs I ran into before are gone (like the bounce-to-disk "blip" you always got). So far, the bug reports I've seen refer to compatibility with 3rd party products, not something internal to Logic or it's own instruments/effects.

Jodi...if you have the time, let's keep a blog here on our progress and findings.

I'm currently running 7.2 and wondering if I should upgrade. I've gotten fairly good at 7, but the new features are interesting and easier to use is also interesting. The big thing is saving time. If the new version can save me time, I'll upgrade...

Well, I completed my first mix in Logic 8 yesterday.

Overall this is the best update of a piece of audio software I've seen. It's solid and stable. I have run into something that might be a design flaw, or possibly a bug and it has to do with the Quick Swipe Comping (my favorite new function BTW). If you pack a folder of takes for the comping. Then expand it. Then realize you need to change the lengths of some of the regions involved - you can't. Then if you unpack it, you still can't change their lengths as the regions get locked and there's no way to unlock them. Took me a while to figure that out. Good thing I kept reverting to the saved version, but that was a pain in the butt.

As far as workflow is concerned I'm much more happy with Logic's new setup. It's a faster workflow to me. Which meant I could spend a lot more time on tweaking stuff in the mix and hearing the results right away. There's another new feature of the plugins where you can compare your changes that you just made with what it was when you opened it. Very cool, but unfortunately it's not working perfectly yet. There were a couple of times when it reverted to something I didn't do in compare. I need to do some more trials of that to see if it's only on 3rd party stuff where that happens.

I made use of the Binaural panning on one instrument as well. Extremely cool.

Put the new Delay Designer to good use. Very intuitive. Very flexible.

As my G5 has lost one of the two processors, I also made use of the Logic Node by hooking up my Macbook Pro. Worked fairly well. Reality is, I can't wait until I have a nice 8 core Mac Pro to put Logic 8 through it's paces.

I like the new mixer window tied to the arrange. Though I did have some issues with the AUX portion constantly turning itself on. Mind you, I imported the song from 7.2.3 to mix it. So it had the busses, which apparently new Logic 8 songs don't have.

To put it mildly, I don't want to go back to 7. But I know I have to keep it around just because.

Larri, if you do want to get a multi out RMX, you can create it in Logic 7, save it. Then import that song file into 8. It will retain the multi out thing. However, it is correct that you cannot create a new multi out in Logic 8. Need to thank Apple on that one.

I am bummed that they've changed most of the key commands. But alas, they can always be changed back.

I'm going to be tracking my first song in Logic 8 today. So that should be interesting.

Richard - If you're the Apple nut your website pegs you to be... There should be no reason to question this update. It's awesome.

Hey Jody...I spotted the thread on the Spectrasonics site where Eric Persing said that Apple changed something on the AU spec, so now several plugin makers will have to provide updates. He is hoping to have an updated RMX sometime this coming week. I'll just wait.

Overall, I'm really liking the new version. I'm having a lot of trouble with cc7 and multi-instruments like Kontakt or Kompakt, though. This may be something about how Logic uses the controllers, but someone else on one of the boards said there was an issue with multi-instruments and Logic's handling of the sub-channels.

As long as you stick to Logic's built-in instruments, everything seems to be working quite well. It's the 3rd party compatibility stuff that takes a while to iron out.

I played with the "takes" folder and didn't try nudging the regions. The basic switching of takes works a lot better than Protools. If there's a workaround for nudging the takes...that would be great.

...still playing and digging around...LOTs to learn.

Here's an interesting little bug Larry, see if you can recreate it...

If you double click on a channel strip volume slider and enter -10. What is the result you get when you hit enter?

Outside of that, I've now mixed two songs and transferred most of my current material that is in production into Logic 8.

I found that one bug I had an issue with went away when I updated the pro app support file via software update. So that's good.

I've also noticed that Logic actually seems to work snappier at 96k than at 44.1k. I haven't figured out why that would be yet.

Interesting bug...I can reproduce it: entering -10 and hitting enter always seems to return -9.8. Not a deal breaker, but interesting, if nothing else.

I'll check my software update and see if there's a pro app update available.

I got the Spectrasonics Stylus RMX update and now multi-outputs work in RMX. Drumcore is working...at this point, everything is easier and works better in this version than in 7.2.3.

Oh...I found a couple of missing samples from the EXS libary that are from some the GB instruments. Since I don't use them, I'm not too concerned there. I understand that re-installing the Jam Paks and audio content should solve the issue.

Now if the punch-in/out issue with the replace mode is fixed (so that it works like Protools), I'll be a pretty happy camper. I'll be testing that this weekend.

If only someone would make a Beat Detective plugin, there'd be very little holding me to Protools.

Yeah, that's a strange little quirk, but it is a bug nonetheless.

As for Beat Detective, if you're looking for mapping the tempo, it's already a part of logic has been since 7. If you're looking to slice up the timing, then you probably need to look into strip silence.

I always hear about this beat detective thing. I'm not sure exactly what it does. Wouldn't it be better to work with musicians who have good timing instead?

Yes...always, but you take the clients who are willing to pay you, and make them sound good using whatever tools are at your disposal....;)

I would also prefer to get singers who never need autotune, but that's a whole other subject as well...

Tempo mapping in Logic is totally different. That puts in a whole bunch of tempo changes to an existing part - different concept than Beat Detective.

Here's what I recently did with Beat Detective:

1. Had a smokin' drum groove by one of the famous Drumcore drummers
2. Selected the 4-bar main loop and had BD make a groove template from that;
3. Applied that groove to the guitar and bass parts with Beat Detective at 80% timing tightness (I could have done it with timing and/or dynamics up to 100% match);
4. I'm a pretty good guitar player and neither the guitar nor the bass were played badly, but this tighted up the drums, bass and guitar so they really sounded more "locked" and like they had been playing together for years.

I got a little more info on that "bug" with the levels: Apparently 9.8 is a rounded off amount for 128 midi levels, so Logic has to round the number off and instead of 10.2, it does it to 9.8. However, I am surprised that it does that with audio. I could see that for midi, but 128 steps for audio is not a lot - especially for automating levels.

Then you need to look into audio to midi function in Logic. You can make a midi track from any source audio. Then make a groove template from that. As for re-timing audio to that groove template, I'm going to speculate...

There's also function in Logic called retime or regroove in the factory area of the sample window. I'm betting there's probably some way to do it.

Otherwise my idea of chopping up the audio is correct. From there you would use the groove template made from the audio to midi stuff, and apply that to the chopped up regions.

I guess I'd have to see/hear beat detective in action. But I don't miss what I don't know.

As for the midi thing of 128 levels. I can't believe the industry hasn't dropped that standard period. It's time that they treat midi as the legacy it was and update to modern technology in terms of the 128 thing. It's time that there were 1024 steps instead of 128. But that's just me.

I found out about that 9.8 thing...Apparently it's fader resolution only. If you use a controller or the mouse to draw in automation, it uses a higher resolution.

You can check this when you go into the automation view and see that the resolution is higher than 128 steps.

Oh, that's been that way since Logic Pro added automation. However. it's silly that it's not everywhere, including manual input.

Well, I did it. I plunked down for a Mac Pro 8-core. I was doing a mix for a song recorded at 96k and my old machine couldn't take it anymore. My oh my, WHAT A MACHINE!

Logic on an 8 core Mac Pro rocks!!!

Breezes through everything even at 96k/24 with some 40+ tracks. Amazing!

Got me through a very complex mix with no issues. Keep the fingers crossed that the song gets picked up for the TV show I'm shooting for and everything is all good.

Logic 8 is solid. Worth the update. Works brilliantly.

Very cool Jody,

I am working with Digital Performer which works great for my film projects. I wish I could spring for the core. I am still waiting to spring for a processor upgrade for my G4. I guess you just have work with what you have sometimes.

Keith

Hey Keith,

DP is still favored by more film composers than any other app. It has some cool things for finding tempos to hit points and handling long, long pieces of music, that neither Logic, nor Protools has.

Jody,

What interface are you using with that mother-of-a-computer? (drool, drool)

(I'm going to wait for ONE more generation of Macs before plunking down the dough...probably right after xmas)

I'm using the MOTU 2408 for now. I will upgrade to the Apogee Symphony system before too long.

As for song lengths... Logic 8 is capable of much longer songs than the past.

Hey there LW,

You are right. I had been using Cubase on my Mac with System 9 and my PC broke down and I had to put in the shop. We also had a fire in our apartment were displaced so I lost my cool studio space. I upgraded my Mac to able to run the things I was running on my PC and converted all the Giga stuff to Kontakt. I lost the use of my Cubase because it was so old. I had DP and just upgraded it and was really impressed. I was in the middle a film project during all of this and DP really saved the day. Things lined up perfect and I was able to export QT really easy. I think Logic is a great program but for me it's too fiddly. I liked Cubase because I could just jump in and use it without much trouble. DP is pretty much the same. I avoid Pro Tools like the plague.

Good luck with the new system Jody.

I am getting ready to upgrade my G4 to the fasted processor I can. I am hitting the wall with EWQL Orchestra and am doing more film and big game scores that need lots of orchestral tracks.

Cheers

Keith

Wait till you see Logic 8 Keith. You'll change your mind about the easy to jump in and and use thing. Logic 8 makes it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier.

Well, I still can't afford a new app at this point, so... it will have to wait.

WE should talk though. I am still in the L.A. area.

Keith

$500?!? For everything you get it's a steal!

You've got my number right?

Hey Jody,

Well, that would be $500 I don't have.

Actually I only have your email. I need your phone #

Keith

With Cakewalk (pre-Sonar), one could print sheet music. Is it possible to do that with Logic (Express 7.2.3)?

It is possible in Logic and Logic Express as well.

Can you tell me how to do it - or if that's too much trouble, where to find out how to do it? I have the APTS Sitter book, but find in the index no reference to "sheet music", "notation", or anything of the sort.

I don't know what the APTS book is.

Logic has a section called Score Editor. It's a part of the program. Using that part, any midi information you've recorded, or any notes you put into the score editor can be printed as sheet music.

Another great reference for things is the Logic Users Group at Yahoo.

Wonderful! Thank you very much.