JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum American Idol contest - when the well connected get greedy

fyi Burton Collins a cowriter on
"You Never Gave Up on Me"
was also Karen Taylor Good's cowriter on
"How Can I Help You Say Goodbye" which was a hit for Patty Loveless and nominated for a Grammy more than 10 years back.

There are many pro's who don't have deals

How does the little guy get a break?
We make our breaks
Decide how dedicated you are to your dream.

It basically boils down to this:

1) build your songwriting skills, knowledge, and tools

2) write great songs,
+ find great songwriting ideas
+ cowrite with great writers, lyricists, producers and artists
+ set super high standards, be a tough rewriter

2) create great demos
+ your songs need to sound like they were written by pro's

3) network network network,
continue to meet and build relationships with key people
attend events and conferences
find talented people online

4) pitch your songs
write with people who've had success

5) be patient
be determined

Take the your first cut quiz
http://yourfirstcut.com/questionnaire.php
It's the truth

Brian AND Ande
Well said and exactly true

Just Maybe these 20 are the kind of thing AI likes! Especially those who have been part of AI... same thought processes, same ideas, similar frame of mind etc.... Did I read here the winning song was written for a junior AI winner? Knowing that to win AI it is not just how good you are but also how your song connects and how you perform it... would be a good indicator that some one picking/writing for a winner at any level would have a pretty good feel for the AI judges thought process.

cheers

I've been trying to make my break for a good 25 years. There has got to be a point when you really feel like you have paid your dues. Can anyone relate to that? I have spent over 80k on my CDs and demo's. Ha! Don't you think that is enough? Sometimes it is not enough. Then you have to realize that you may be in the wrong location. We can't all move to Nashville and LA. Perhaps that is where I took a wrong turn in my life. Maybe some of us who want to make it into those circles have to move to where the action is. One of my friends in Nashville who is a blues player made one comment to me that I have never forgotten. He said "You must be present to win." What he meant by that is ya gotta move to the place where all the songwriters are. I just put my family first. To me that is more important. So who knows. Maybe that moving thing will change someday.

I still think it is odd that the winning song was written by the SAME person that wrote the hit single for the winning Idol Junior. It really is about connections. Is anyone hearing this? It seems to be falling on deaf ear here amoungst a few that post here.

Tammy

www.tammyewards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

Tammy,

I hear you, but I think you answered your own question. If you put your family first, then in my book you have already won. Congratulations.

-Jeff

Tammy: I have a second cousin who lives in Nashville and has been writing songs for over 15 years and trying to make a living at it. Martina recorded one of his songs and he wrote and co-wrote a bunch of songs for a popular movie, but word is he's getting out. It's not a supporting career. When I look at a guy who has been trying to break through for so long and can't, I dont' kid myself that my songwriting is nothing but a late-life hobby to me. I know for you it might be different. I'll work at honing the craft and sharing rough demos with family and friends, and that's good enough for me. Heck, I had a co-worker take me aside today and tell me they thought my AI song was better than the winner. That's enough to rock my little corner of the world!

Tammy
I think at this point there has been so much mis-information and rumor that folks are getting a little gun shy.
$10k to the winners....not to the winners
Pro's vs. amateurs
Ringers and fillers just to make it look fair.
Etc...etc....etc...

All this talk of lawsuits and FCC involvement, conspiracy theorys, and just plain greedyness are really not doing us any good.
JPF does not need this kind of bad karma.
In my opinion I think most of us are above all this.

I think the girl mentioned did not win AI Juniors. She was a finalist. But it is being played here like she won and the song was written for her in the contest. That's not how I read the news clip.

One of the advantages of Networking is you get to know people. Your name becomes associated with people.
I'd be willing to bet the winning songwriter spends a lot of time networking and knows a lot of people in the industry, in Nashville, in LA, and has a lot of contacts.
I'd also wager many that were not picked have those same contacts and had they been chosen we would be hearing the same rumors and accusations.

The other thing to remember is this thing is a huge business with Millions of dollars at stake. No matter how it shakes out it is still a business and is all about one thing.....MONEY. The artists and the art, in my opinion, are secondary. Necessary yes, but secondary.
Personally I don't buy the argument that if you paid your dues you deserve a better shot. A brand new person with talent has just as much right as a 25 year veteran to win the brass ring. If the song is good it is good.
I also don't think the best "song" won this thing. But that doesn't mean squat.

I don't even understand how Kelly's song got in. It wasn't even finished. From my understanding she didn't even have time to write a second verse. What were they gonna do, write it for her? But you know what, I don't mind. I was just happy to see a simple piano/vocal make it after hearing all the Professional songs get in.
The only way this whole mess could be avoided would be the entries had to be annonymous and you reveal who you are after the winner is picked. But even that would not stop the conspiracy theorists.
I found it interesting that Brian was naming the nominees just from listening to the songs. He knew who some of them were. Does that mean he was part of a conspiriacy? I think not.
Nothing we do can change the outcome. If anything this might actually be a good thing for us.

But, if we persist in persecuting the Goose she might just crap on us instead of laying a golden egg.

EDIT
The one thing that I have been told by every one in the business is: If you want a chance you have to be here. Not exactly move here but spend at least a week every couple months and get to know the people that matter. Then you MIGHT have a shot at it if you have a lot of talent. If you can, and are really serious, move here.
But, I think the winner is from Seattle. So what does that mean?

Tammy whether or not you got a fair hearing.. we will never know! I've already said my piece about ways to get questions asked. No it's not at all odd. Why is it not odd? because he is very likely to be in tune with the judges likes and dislikes. Is it fair?... Probobly not, but when was life ever meant to be fair?

You have the ability and have looks that I wish I had half of, but how big you can make it is not something you can control. Being upset by failure is the short step to the slippery slide down from whatever height you have already attained. Worry about the fans and audience you have and work on making that bigger. Short cuts like the AI contest (not that there really are any short cuts) may or may not work out and can be either a good experience or a bad one but either way use it as a learning experience.

Paying your dues... it all depends how much you've paid... and sometimes (most times) "all out and everything" still isn't enough. Performance dues however are a lot better currency than dollars paid for services.

Not that I'd really know, I can't/ don't perform and I've been writing for near 20 years and still only have a couple of unpaid cuts on 500 or so print cds.

Cheers

Noel

That show is garbage.

excellent points

I agree. Be happy for the people who got it, and try to learn as much from it as you can. But there's no point in being upset.

Joe

So, the bad karma comes from bringing to light how badly this contest was run, not from the way AI misrepresented this contest from the beginning? maybe you should look up karma, my friend.

I think instead of karma, you probably mean getting the gods that run the music industry mad at you so they won't throw you any scraps because you've dared to show what's behind the curtain.

The problem with that thinking is that it won't solve the real problem that a debacle such as this has created. And that is that this contest has soured songwriting for tens of thousands of amateurs. Many of those hobbyist songwriters who were led to believe they had a shot will pull themselves up and try better next time, but many more (in my opinion) will just say screw it.. they are disgusted with what they see as insider deals (real or imagined) and misrepresentation. Sadly, some of those amateurs might have had that one great song in them.

Running this contest more ethically to avoid any appearance of impropriety would have avoided all this hubbub.

It's really very sad..

Jerry

Very shortly this years version of AI,will be riding off into the sunset...Mr Cowell will now hop across the big pond,and set up the auditions for the UK version (again)..which transmits Aug thru to Xmas..."IF" he does a "songwriter" theme over here,at least we know where the bar is set,thru observing what happened over in the USA...but it definately does seem it was not a level playing field,for all the Songwriters....I guess even AI would put their hands up and say mistakes where made,if push came to shove,but in all honesty i do not think it will be something that will make them lose a lot of sleep,it was only one little part of this money making giant,and perhaps a bit of a PR disaster to boot..probably something they could do without..who knows ..but at the end of the day folks..no one has mentioned the other 19 finalists..whether they are all "connected" or not..i know how i would feel..as sick as a parrot with a hair lip-beak...to have your finger tips on the top of the mountain..only to have the feet dragged away from you..they would have had plenty of sleepless nights on the run up to the finalist being announced...and whether they got 10k or not,it would be scant reward...........Terry Moore...

Just to sum up and hopefully put this subject to bed.
We have all, I hope, learned from this experience.
The most important lesson is that the business is a rat race and we had better forget being nicey nice it does not work. Dirty characters will eat you up and spit you out.
Most competitions are a lottery and not always will the best song win. That is a fact of life and we must accept that. We are dependant on the criteria asked for and the whims and foibles of the judges. They make mistakes and cause it is their baby they are allowed to. You however cannot make any mistakes. If you do not enter you cannot win. If what you have produced is not up to industry standard then you have little chance of winning and it is a waste of time and money entering. If you are going to enter future competitions I would advise the following.
First of all do your homework. Spen time checking everything out.
Read all the rules and stick to them.
Establish just what kind of song the competition is looking for.
Make sure your song is suitable. Work on it until it is polished.
Do not submit a rough demo. It must be very good studio quality.
Be lucky. Remember your luck is improved by doing the thing as best as you can and treating it seriously as a business.
Nobobdy makes a living out of entering song competitions.
Look upon these events as an exercise or hobby not the be all.
Pitch you stuff to everybody and any body. Try to find contacts and networks to promote your songs.
Don't give in. Learn from other peoples success and your mistakes.
Be a professional in attitude.

Top pro sportsmen do not just do it for fun they treat it as a business and will devote the bulk of their time, money and efforts to improving their skills.
A famous golfer chipped into a hole from a distance and when he was called a lucky .....
He replied "Yes the more I practice the luckier I get"
That should be your attitude.

All the best to everybody BIG JIM

Right on the money Brian. (as usual)

This Is My Now is EXACTLY the type of song that I thought would win... a pop power ballad with a feel good cheesy hook about coming out on top in some way. Over the years, every winner's song has been essentially interchangable with the next one's.

For those of you who have 'sworn off' songwriting competitions, keep in mind that the JPF Awards are the most legit out there. Plus, it's free! What have you got to lose.

Maureen - I bet we were in line together at some point!...lol Ugh. There definitely came a time when I just stopped doing the open calls. Too painful.

You are right Christine, the JPF awards are great. I have been to a few of them out in LA. Bottom line is. I have a great time. And honestly when I flew back home to Iowa, all I could think about was the cool, wonderful new friends I made. That was what it was all about. Getting an award does feel great. But I would give them all back if it meant I wouldn't have any friends. I would rather have you all as my friends. That's why I get on here and talk. The friendships are more important to me than the awards. It may not sound like it sometimes because I just trying to have things be fair for everyone.

Thank you to all of you who have left nice comments and advice for me. It helps me keep my head on straight. I do get pretty emotional because I am very passionate about alot of things in life, mainly my music. I will spend my last dollar trying to make a song perfect. Sometimes I hate that about me. Maybe some of you do understand. If you are creative, God gives you something special to share with the world that others don't have but love to sit and listen to and enjoy. That is why we are given different gifts and we can truly appreciate each other.
Thank you.....

Tammy


www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

It may be sad but that won't change anything.

I made an assumption about this contest. That it was for rank amateurs. People who never had a cut, never were published, etc.
That was my mistake, not AI's.
I took the word amateur literally.
The only rule (I know of) was the song needed to be free of any publishing deal.
I received a notice about another amateur contest a couple days ago.
It was billed as amateur. It also defined what they considered amateur. Anyone who has not earned more than $5000.00 from songwriting. It had a couple other criteria and was pretty clear what they considered amateur.
American Idol did not do that. How you interpreted the word amateur was left up to you.

So far I have seen no proof of any illegal activity. Everything being said is rumor. Just look at the story about the songwriter and the girl from AI Junior. It was twisted within just two or three posts here.
The only thing I see about this contest that bothers me is they did not specify what an amateur is. They also did not clearly stipulate who might be disqualified ie; employees of Idol, etc.

People who say this was just a money making scheme are not living in the real world. Even at 30,000 entries they only took in $300,000. That is pocket change to these people.
Now it may be that they expected to get 100,000 entries. Then it would have been ONE Million. But you know what. That is still pocket change to these people.
They deal in Hundreds of Millions a year. Even One Million would not mean much to them.

I don't need an explanation of the word Karma to tell me all this negativity is bad for business. If any songwriter is going to be destroyed by this one contest then they probably should not be trying to make it in this business.
I think all this negativity is doing more harm to them than the flawed contest. All it is doing is telling them it does not matter how good you are, you don't have a chance. So, you might as well give up.
That is not helpful.
JMHO of course.

Me too, I started dreading them and that's when I stopped, I only went if my agent sent me (which is, of course never enough times!) but years later I have found songwriting and it's been more exciting and fun than I ever had!

It's not the definition of "amateur" that matters. (Though if you want to split hairs, if you made $5000 dollars from songwriting, you're not literally an amateur either). I am not aware of anywhere where it said "only amateurs" may enter. Instead, it seemed to suggest that amateurs were "welcome" to enter. Big difference.

Brian

HELLO PEOPLE---LIFE ISN'T FAIR...I'll say it again...life ISN'T fair...Anyone who has existed in this world knows that...IF I had entered the contest, personally, I don't care what was said or written there, I would have known in my heart that it likely wouldn't be fair, and I would have entered knowing that I had two chances...slim and NONE. Am I negative?? or realistic?? That's up to you to decide. Everyone who is SO disappointed about the contest because the AI people implied it would be fair...Did you REALLY believe that?

I take everything people say with a grain of salt...

Do you believe politicians when they tell you how honest they are??? and that they're gonna make everything great?

How about the news media?? Do you think you get an even keel picture of reality, or do you think they slant what you see to fit their agenda?

Ever take bids to have some remodeling done? They promise to be done in three weeks and it takes 3 months, right?

You get my point...what happened in this contest actually had a combo of fairness AND unfairness in it...The fact that Kelly's piano only song made it to the final 20 UNQUESTIONABLY means that there WAS some fairness to it. Was there some unfairness too? Probably...IS THAT SURPRISING????? If your answer is yes, I am sorry, but you are NAIVE...Is suing them going to accomplish anything??? I don't think so...Chalk it up and move on...one last time...LIFE ISN'T FAIR (especially in something as subjective as music)...and I know it from experience...does anyone want to argue that it is???

That being said, this is the most wonderful supportive community of music loving people in the world and how lucky we are to all be here together in this age of technology and discuss these issues as a community!!! To make friends with people all over the world is just absolutely amazing isn't it? We all would like to make money AND have fun with our music, but let's face reality...The money thing isn't likely to happen (to any major degree anyway)----therefore the emphasis needs to be on the fun!!! I believe this ties in with what Bill R was saying about kharma...

Cmon everyone, let's get back to having fun, not being bitter. Tammy, you have worked really hard and you are very talented...If you came to Chicago, nothing would stop me from being at your show...maybe next time WILL be your time...stay positive, and keep it FUN...Jeff said it perfect

Tammy,

I hear you, but I think you answered your own question. If you put your family first, then in my book you have already won. Congratulations.

-Jeff

We have all made similar decisions. The last point I'd like to make is that while alot of complaining is done about "insiders"---no one has touched on what THEY have given up to get there and be "insiders"--I'll bet they moved to music hubs and left family and friends behind---I wouldn't do that, would you? Can you picture the guy Agate was talking about not making money at songwriting in 15 years...Did he give up his marriage? Decide not to have kids? Will he be OLD and POOR? I have worked all my life and I doubt I have enough to retire comfortably...So the people that actually succeeded TOOK A HUGE RISK in their lives---I bet for every success story there's a THOUSAND sad stories...Would you have chosen your music over your life and risked being old with NOTHING...I wouldn't have---I'm just gonna have fun with my music and NEVER expect anything else.

Herbie

Gosh, Herbie..you're one tough cookie. Ever thought about being an exterminator? I bet the bugs would just run from you when they see you. HA.

~~shelia

www.sheliaquattlebaum.blogspot.com
www.gmia.org

C'mon Herbie.... Tell us how you really feel
{{hugs}}
Joanne

Been reading through this--coming in late to the heated discussion and not completely sure I should say anything at all --but here's my take:

Show me where the rules, press, or ANYWHERE public that AI stated "Every song WILL be listened to!" Show me where the FCC regulations insist that in any talent- or quality-based contest, ALL entrants must be evaluated by a specific mandatory method, such as "in a songwriting contest, all songs must be listened to for at least 30 seconds." (I believe there are regulations stating that each entry MUST be evaluated in some way... but no regs on WHAT method the judges must use... just that they have one, and can prove they used it. Federal regulations differ for free vs. entry-fee contests, also.) Show me where the FCC mandates that contest entrants/winners connected to the people running any contest in any way MUST be disqualified. In fact... show me where the contest was labeled an "amateur" contest open only to amateur songwriters. Hm, no, I think what I read was that the contest was OPEN to anyone with the ability to make a recording.

For your 10 bucks, you bought the *right* to *enter* the contest. Period. I doubt any of the unpicked songwriters would ever have enough info on which to build a decent case. The people at the top of AI are not stupid and would not have overlooked basic FCC contest regulations. They know how expensive lawsuits are, and how to avoid any loopholes that might stand a chance in court. I'm sure their tail ends will be well-covered.

From everything I've read on this contest... It sounds to me like they could have pulled 20 CDs off the top of the pile (if they'd wanted to) and it would still be within posted rules and regulations. Now, that wouldn't be a real smart way to pick the top 20, but it wouldn't have been *illegal.*

In fact... when the contest was open, I couldn't find anything that talked about HOW they would select the top 20 songs. Where did AI post any info on "This is how the contest will be judged" or "Entries will be evaluated like so:" OR, even, "If you are connected with AI in any way you are ineligible to enter"--??? I didn't see that written anywhere. In all the threads about the contest here, I didn't find anyone talking who had ANY info on that selection process. Everyone was curious, and it appears, equally in the dark. (That was enough right there to convince me not to enter.)

In fact, what I DID see was, "ANYONE CAN ENTER!" Bingo--no one will be disallowed, not Diane Warren or David Foster or even the kid next door. Would Diane or David have a better shot at winning, with their years of pro experience? You betcha! Can they still enter if they want? You bet! ANYONE means anyone... connected or not. In fact, if you think about it, that's a dratted smart way to get around any 'connection' issues, isn't it? "Anyone!"

If it's not stated IN THE RULES, or specifically AGAINST FCC regs, it is NOT a legal issue. Even if you *could* prove the vast majority of songs were thrown in a dumpster. Nothing (that I know of) disallows them from doing that, or legally requires them to listen to a minimum of XYZ seconds per entry. All I think the law required them to do is "judge" them somehow, which they apparently did. Did the judging method have to be stated up-front and in the fine print? If so, AND if that method was intentionally misleading (very, very hard to prove, BTW), THEN there might be something to stand on... but while I could be wrong, I don't think it's a legal FCC requirement to spell out contest judging methods. I just don't believe the AI execs would overlook a basic legal requirement like that. They have lots of expensive attorneys working for them, covering all those points.

With the AI *show,* everyone knows how to get in and who is doing the judging--you audition for Randy, Paula, and Simon. By the end they take public votes, and anyone can vote as often as you can get through (one of my friends voted for Blake 100 times on Tuesday). Is the final voting fair? But I don't see anyone screaming "lawsuit!" over how that's conducted. It's perfectly legal.

And here's some facts--I know a couple people who have tried to audition for AI. The reality is, out of the THOUSANDS of people who show up to audition and stand in line... only a handful actually make it past the screeners. They pick out the ones who look most promising, interesting, or outrageous (to make sure you get enough of the really bad and strange ones in there to give Simon a real headache) and the rest go home disappointed. You get a shot to be listened to by a screening judge for a few seconds and that's it. The people I personally know didn't get past the screeners.

So... that's how the process works. I didn't see anything, anywhere, that made a public statement about HOW they were going to judge/evaluate contest entries. I found nothing, anywhere, that promised all the entries would get a fair listen. Maybe the entries were prescreened by judging the song title and the name of the songwriter. (After all--they didn't say WHY production quality didn't matter, did they...? LOL)

MOST LIKELY the songs from the unknowns went to a huge slush pile where a panel of hired screeners checked out a lyric sheet and maybe a few seconds of the CD, pitching the most promising few hundred to a more "pro" panel to judge for the top 20... pretty much the same way they conduct the auditions (only, without the stinkers thrown in for a laugh).

Now, if you found someone with hard evidence that the winning song (or top 20 songs) were hand-solicited and hand-picked to win before the contest was even started, or that money changed hands to bribe the judges, or something like THAT, then you'd have a case.

To sum up: Proving your song wasn't listened to (even if you could, which would be tough by itself) still accomplishes nothing. Because nothing in the rules promised you a listen. There were no false promises made. There were, however, a LOT of false assumptions being made about the judging methods, IMO. (Which I am not privy to, and am only... assuming.)

A lot of people got their hopes up. A lucky and talented 20 got a shot. A lot of those top 20 have lots of experience in the music business. So what? So they did better. Cool for them. Was anything about the contest illegal? I seriously doubt it. Was the deck stacked against amateurs from the get-go? Was it a money-making ploy to sucker people into thinking they had a chance to get rich? Possibly, but hey, so are a lot of marketing schemes out there (multi-level marketing plans, door-to-door sales, you name it), and they're all perfectly legal too.

I can't imagine the volume of songs they'd have received if the contest were free. It might be more ethical to do it that way (same as they don't charge to audition for AI), but at least they had a semi-manageable amount of entries that didn't shoot into the millions.

The best and coolest thing to come out of the contest is that the ranks of JPF have swelled, and we welcomed in MANY great new members at the same time!! So, let them keep holding the contest... and JPF membership is sure to surge every year. And maybe, just maybe, hanging out and networking with other JPF members will give some of us a real leg up in the business, by working together.

So, hey, the way I see it, it's got a silver lining.

Linda

coming in here late also.... i paid $10 bucks each for 2 songs, not sure they got listened to but i've paid a hell of a lot more for a rep to pitch my songs in nashville. i would have been thrilled to be in the top 20 but my real hope was MAYBE one of those who heard my songs might think he had a possible home for it with an artist. i'm still waiting, but jeeez, it was only $20!!! money well spent if you ask me.... networking!! now, about that song that was chosen.... i didn't see them on any list of connected people??? and i, for one, didn't think it was all that terrific!! kinda cheesy ballad, if you ask me BUT they now have their break... the same one i'm waiting for!! LOL scotty

http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?BandID=34439

Hmmmm my take on this whole song contest was that ratings were slipping and Fox et all knew they could appeal to a huge demographic of amateur writers and boost ratings that way by getting them all emotionally involved.

It worked, but I guess not enough as the ratings were the lowest they have been, tho still quite good for TV these days.

I wouldn't loose any sleep over a silly thing like AI.

Keep doing your thing and know that you are touching lives.

It's just a contest with ulterior motives folks!

Hi Tammy,
I put my family first too. So I understand that attitude!
I feel so strongly that no other success in life, no matter how great, would compensate for doing anything that would screw up the harmony of my marriage and children's lives and cause them pain and suffering.

So if that means no #1 hits, that's what it means.

... I'm hoping that for me, Seattle is a "close enough" hub.
AI was wrong about Seattle! Way wrong! So, maybe it'll show up on the map a little bit better.

Linda

Hi Linda! Thanks for the encouraging words. My daughters mean the world to me. I feel that family does come first. There were opportunities for music things along the way but I was a single parent for a good 14 years and really counted on the support of being near my parents. I let some of those things pass. I didn't want to uproot them. I wanted them to attend the same school through their childhood and until graduation. I have felt like God would honor putting family first and if the time was right for my music later He would bring that into fruition. If that big break doesn't come, it doesn't come. I wouldn't change the fact that I was always there for my girls. They are my investment. I may not be the age to make it onto AI or get signed because I am not 17 anymore. But we can all play music and write songs till we die. That is the beauty of this whole music thing. I am glad that you have put your family first Linda. I am sure that good things will happen for you!

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyewards1

Linda,
Thanks for jumping in here.. a few comments..

First, I agree AI covered themselves legally. I don't think there is any songwriter who could make a civil case against them. They probably protected themselves pretty well from criminal action as well..

But on a regulatory basis, I think they might have trouble.



I would disagree with you there.. The press releases either implied or outright promoted this as an amateur contest. It is against FCC regulation to falesly promote a contest in a way that would affect participation.



By promoting this as an amateur contest they swelled the ranks of entrants and took money for each of those entries. There's no "proof" of anything, but surely this is a matter the FCC should at least look into? Or, are you of the opinion like some here that "making waves" is bad for all songwriters?

I love the attitude of some of the folks here.. to paraphrase.. "yeah, the music industry is a dirty, cutthroat business.. You have to play the game as defined by the people who'll buy your songs.. get used to it or get out."

Well, sorry.. I have to hold my head up at the end of the day. If that means I am relegated to a life of tilting at windmills, well so be it! and that's all I'll say on this subject. Thanks to everyone that participated.

Jerry

P.S. Ok.. now any songwriter worth his/her salt should be able to get a song or two out of all this discussion.. I've got a few ideas myself! :/

Jerry

Wow you've invested quite a bit in your music over the years
Your songs sound great

I think the main problem with your lack of success,
you need to have more artists who are about to record a CD, listen to your song catalog.

The way you do this is
1) find them and
2) invite them to listen.

Go through MySpace and CDBaby.
Find artists who do the kind of songs you've written,
compliment them,
ask them if they are looking for well written original material and
invite them to explore your catalog.

make it a very short sweet email
like this

~ ~ ~

Hi Tammy,

You are a wonderful singer, I love your voice.

Are you currently looking for original songs?
Tammy I've written many songs but there's one in particular that I think would fit you well.

It's called Eventually
you can hear its pop demo at:
http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=12740
you can hear its piano vocal demo at:
http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=12739

Please have a listen and let me know which do you prefer?

I also invite you to browse through my catalog which you can find at:
http://songramp.com/ande

I hope you hear something you love.
Please let me know if you do

Ande Rasmussen
Songwriter
Texas Grammy Governor

~ ~ ~ ~ ~




Also cowrite with many people, cowrite with many people.
Write with good writers,
write with artists,
write with producers,
write with writers who are good at pitching and promoting songs,
write with people who have great song ideas.

Reading this thread made me realize that there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out there...

I suppose it is easier to blame some outside force than to entertain the possibility that maybe the level at which you are writing is not high enough. Maybe you are wrtiting at a college level and others are writing at a PhD level. Maybe it is that simple.

Even if that is true, I think songwriters should still write. Songwriters should write songs because they have to; because they would find it very difficult to live if they did not write songs; such that even if AI never existed you would still be writing songs... If this is the context for your songwriting then disappointments will be easier to bear.

Sure, as everything in life connections matter. 9 times out of 10 a connection will only get you access but it will NOT get you a cut if your song is bad or ajob if your resume is bad. "This is my now" is a fine song and of the Top 20 I rated it among the best 3 or 4 and I gave it a 10, so I am not surprised it won. Perhaps the songwriter IS connected but the song is still good so I have no problem with it winning.

Let it go and get ready for next year...

Ande, Ya know.. that is one angle I have never tried. Now why didn't I think of that? That is why I know I was suppose to meet you on here. I just haven't gotten gusty enough to go find artists and have them listen to my stuff. So that will be my next move. I really respect your opinion. Thank you!

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

The real results of the American Idol Songwriting contest
Season six 2007.

At least 13 different songwriters have had prior
working relationships with either
American Idol Judge's Randy Jackson, Paula Abdul,
American Idol bandleader Rickey Minor,
American Idol host Ryan Seacrest, former American Idol
finalist or Fox Television.

One songwriter (Colin Armstrong), according to his
American Idol bio,
won the "BE A STAR" contest on L.A. radio station STAR
98.7 FM.
Sadly, the bio doesn't mention that Ryan Seacrest was
the radio DJ , and that 2 of Colin's Armstrong's
co-writers (Mikal Reid and Marti Frederiksen) are
credited on Bo Bice's 2005 CD and Clay Aiken's 2006
CD.
(Side note, Marti Frederiksen and Clive Davis are
producer's on Bo Bice's CD).

Mikal Reid-Colin Armstong's co-writer
Mikal Reid-drums on former American Idol finalist Bo
Bice's 2005 c.d
The real thing

Marti Frederiksen-Colin Armstongs co-writer
Marti Frederiksen was the producer and engineer on
Clay Aiken's 2006 A thousand different ways



Songwriting finalist
(Jennifer Hamady) spent 2 episodes
as a backup singer on the 2007 season of American
Idol.

Songwriting finalist (Kelly Corsino) has her own music
production company
and one of her clients is Fox Television.

Songwriting finalist (Cal Harris Jr.)
(Could be Cal Harris Sr But so what) was an engineer
on Paula Abdul's "Head Over Heels" CD.
Was also a engineer on Diana Ross's 2006 Blue album
Diana Ross was a mentor on season six--2007

Songwriting finalist (Sam Sims) was the bass
player on Paula Abdul's "Under My Spell" tour.
And was the Bass player And Randy Jackson
Was musical Director on Mariah Carey's
2003 Charmbraclet tour

Songwriting finalist (CJ Vanston) played keyboards
while Randy Jackson played Bass on
Richard Marx's "Repeat Offender" and "Days In Avolon"
CD's.

Songwriting finalist (Shedrick Mitchell) gets the
credit of playing the organ
while American Idol bandleader Rickey Minor played the
bass on "Queen Latifah's Dana Owens" CD.


Songwriting finalist (Byron Zanos) Album
Somewhere in the middle was produced and engineered
By Dagiel Bennett (Tony Bennetts son)
Tony was a mentor ang sang on the show 2007.


Songwriting finalist (Reed Waddle)
Has been working with John Oates (Hall & Oates
They were on the show season five.


Songwriting finalist (Lane Lenhart)
According to Lane's Myspace page
She wrote the Theme song for a pilot show
Called Pie
For Fox Television.

Songwriting finalist (Nelson Kole)
The Drummer On Nelson Kole's Ambum-Tattoo is
Vinnie Colaiuta Who also plays on several Clay Aiken
Albums
And is also the drummer on Erin Boheme's Album-What
love is.
(Erin Boheme is also a top Twenty finalist-American
Idol Songwriting contest)

Songwriting finalist (Diana Dewitt)
She is a well known christian back-up singer
And has worked with some of the same people as
Scott Krippayne Melinda Doolittle
And Jordin Sparks




And if you visit the U.S. copyright website, a quick
search shows Scott Krippayne has written songs
for several christian artist like Jaci Velasquez,
Rebecca Saint James, Kathy Troccoli, Point of Grace
and more.
And if you check out Scott's Purplehonda myspace page,
Scott says he has written 14 number 1 hits
and 20 top 10 hits for artist like John Tesh, Ronan
Tynan, Saddi Patty and more.


What are the odds that 2007's American Idol winner
Jordin Sparks and
2007's American Idol 3rd place finalist Melinda
Doolittle would both be singing
with AI season 3 finalist George Huff before American
Idol season 6 even began?
Just so you know...Ryan Seacrest announced on American
Idol's final show that
over a 100,000 people tried out for the 2007 season.
Math was never our subject, but 100,000 to 1 seems
close.

According to an article from Shoutlife.com christian
artist Michael W. Smith's manager Chaz Corzine said
"Three years ago I met and became friends with a young
girl that possessed about as much talent as I had ever
seen in one person. Her name is Jordin Sparks and when
I first met her - she was 14 years old. Shortly after
I met Jordin she, her mother and her grandmother
visited Nashville. I had the opportunity to take them
to Michael's house where Jordin and Michael's girls
hit it off like they had been best friends all their
life! Another unique thing about that visit was that
former American Idol contestant, George Huff, was at
Smitty's house. As you might imagine - it wasn't long
before the three of them (Michael, George and Jordin)
wound up around the piano. That is a night I will
never forget. Well, it wasn't long before Jordin was
on the road with us singing Background Vocal's for
Smitty's 2005 Christmas tour. She was a hit - both on
stage and off stage. That was the first of two tours
Jordin would do with Michael. She also joined him on
his 2006 Christmastime Tour."

So where does American Idol 3rd place finalist Melinda
Doolittle fit in all of this?
She's a backup singer on George Huff's 2004 "My
Christmas" CD.
Also American Idol finalist Melinda Doolittle and
American Idol songwriting winner Scott Krippayne
both appear on the "Music For The Soul's After The
Storm" CD.
Scott Krippaye sings lead vocals on the song "Twenty
Three" and
Melinda Doolittle sings lead vocals on "When The
Saints".
One last tidbit, Melinda Doolittle and Michael W.
Smith both are credited on Rich Mullen's "The Jesus
Record" CD.

Scott Krippayne had at least 5 differant connections.
To either the show and/or to the contestants.
Before the contest.

Here are the facts.
Scott Krippayne (Winner AI Songwritng contest)
Before the contest.
Scott has written with Matthew Ward.

Matthew Ward was the producer of Jordin Sparks's
2003 demo cd

Scott has written with Andy Marvel.

Andy Marvel was one of the co-writers on Jordin
Spark's 2003 demo cd

Scott was also on the 2005 cd
After the storm
As was Melinda Doolittle (3rd place winner AI)

Scott Krippayne wrote title track
Wonderful Crazy----Katelyn Tarver's-----Debut-c.d.
Katelyn Tarver was a Finalist 2003 Junior Idol

According to Scott's MySpace Bio
He has worked with Kari Kemmil
Kari Kemmil wrote the song (I Could) for
American Idol Kimberley Locke

Scott Krippayne has written with Jorge Corante
Jorge Corante is a producer on Paula Abdul's 1991
Album SpellBound.

Also the name of Jordin Sparks 2003 Demo cd
Was ---For Now

The name of the winning song in the AI songwriting
contest was.
This is my now.

Na,no way this was fixed.
Good luck next year.............

Hmmmmm wow! Thats alot of great research on your part southbound. Everything I ever expected. Now that you are on the subject, is that the Matthew Ward from the group "The Second Chapter of Acts"? He is an incredible singer. Didn't know if there is another Matthew Ward out there. And you do know that Scott wrote one of the Hit songs on the JR A.I. winner a couple of years ago. Its all just a big circle of connections. Thanks for sharing your post!

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

That's how it works in the entertainment business. Not surprising at all!

Emily

Well it seems thst A.I got what they wanted.
And it also seemsvery few people seem to care.
At least my kids will not grow up thinking any of this is real.
All I know is if I held a contest like this.
I would be sitting in jail or a courtroom right now.
And yes Tamera64 it is the same Matthew Ward.
The only reason I will not ever let this go
is I will not accept this as the norm.
If this is accepted than everyone like me who doesn't have connections in the music biz might as well quit right now.
And I will not let them win.
I can't speak for anyone other than myself.
But my whole life I have dreamed of have a career in music.
And yes I have paid my dues.(Man have I paid my dues)
But like many other people out there.
Sometimes life gets in the way (kids,job,etc,etc)
So the chances get smaller and smaller
As time goes on.
That is why this and other songwriting contest
are so important.
It supposed to give the little guy (or Girl)
Some kind of a chance.
And then comes along the biggest T.V show in history.
Promising a chance for an unknown to have a hit record.
WOW.
But that is not what happened.
The ratings were down by 3 million this past season
Keep in mind there is a lot of money to be made
in the christian music field.
Just look back at season.
The winner (Jordin Sparks)is a well known in the christian field.
Also The third place winner(Melinda Doolittle)is also well known in the christian music field
As is Scott Krippayne.Diana Dewitt.Shedrick Mitchell
Kelli Trontell
And read Kelli Hill's AI Bio
Also Chris Sligh
Lakisha Jones
Phil Stacy
Sanjaya Malakar
Are also well known in the christian field.
Whats wrong with that (Nothing)
Except this whole contest (Singing & Songwriting)
Was supposed to be for amatuers.
And that over 100.000 people tried out fot the show last year
Also and don't get me wrong I think helping people is great.
But Why Idol gives back?
What better way to look good to the christian market
also think back to the final 2 shows.
Was it me or was there a very christian theme to it.
I wonder what the ratings would have been without it
Think about it......................................

Where exactly did it say that ONLY amateurs could enter? Seriously.. this is a tiring argument which simply isn't true. The point was that amateurs COULD enter, not that ONLY amateurs could enter. And after all, how would you define an Amateur? Someone who never sold a single CD or made a penny for anything music related in their lives? We'd all be bored to death by that.

They were 100% open about people like Melinda Doolittle being a full time pro singer. But these A.I. artists were, in fact, unknown to the masses. I hadn't heard of a single one before the show and I've heard and met a LOT of artist since the show started.

They were also open about the fact that Jordin had tried out for the Junior version of AI previously. And there was no such limitation on songs that could be entered. Only that they weren't already published if I remember right. A Pro would be an idiot NOT to enter.

The pro music business is a very small community. I know lots of people in it and I am often not more than 1 or 2 people removed from most anyone you could name. There are always going to be connections and folks will always try to help those they like. That is the entire point of networking. That's what we've been begging all of you to do and get better at since day one at JPF. Here's another example and proof of why it works.

Brian

You have got to be kidding me.
I understand that people are going to know people.
But there is no way you are going to convince me
that this was a fair contest.

By the way here is one article where
they may not say it was for amateurs only
But they sure implied it.

Posted By Miles On American Idol Website (News LInk)

"Are you the next big songwriter and think you have
what it takes to make your mark in music history? Just
when you thought you’ve seen everything, the American
Idol juggernaut begins its search for the best amateur
songwriter in America.
Show creator and executive
producer, Simon Fuller announced today the American
Idol Songwriter Competition, giving Idol fans their
first chance to write the next American Idol’s hit
single. Additional details and online submissions,
which are now open, can be found in our official
American Idol Songwriter Competion section."
"Fuller and his 19 Entertainment A&R staff will select
the initial Top 20 songs from all the entries.
Beginning May 2, fans will then be able to go online,
listen to and vote for their favorite songs. The song
chosen by the nation will then be performed live in
front of millions of viewers on the season’s finale.
But that is only the beginning, as the song will be
recorded and released by this year’s American Idol.
The winning songwriter will receive a music publishing
deal with 19 Entertainment; a cash advance on
royalties; and the thrill of watching their song
belted out by American Idol finalists on the show’s
final episodes."
"American Idol has been the vehicle for discovering so
many great new artists over the years and now, with
the launch of American Idol Songwriter, we are
searching for great undiscovered songwriting talent,”
stated Simon Fuller. “Having an untapped songwriter
create the winner's single seemed like a natural next
step for our show. Not only do the fans pick their
American Idol, but also his or her first single. This
show has always been, and will continue to be, all
about fulfilling dreams."

How can you defend this?

You're still missing the point. Amateurs were welcome to participate. They never said it was "exclusively" amateur, nor could you truly find 10 "amateur" singers of the caliber of the finalists they have each year. If someone can sing really well, odds are in the day and age of iTunes, CD Baby and the internet, they will have earned some money. Unless you remove anyone ever connected to a commercial musical activity (which would also need to include musicals and other public performances) you can't have a totally "amateur" contest. And no one would WANT to see it anyway. As for the songwriting, for the most part, all the songwriter finalists were also unknown to the general public. Hell, most of them STILL are unknown.

Brian

No...I think you are missing the point.
I am not saying this contest was for
amateurs only.
I understand what the rules said
and I'm not saying they broke the rules
of the contest.
What I am saying is this contest was
supposed to have been judged by the song only.
And you expect me to believe that out of 25.000
entries and with a little over 2 weeks to pick the top 20 songs.
One songwriter just happens to produce records with Clive Davis.
Or that another songwriter just happens to record with
with Randy Jackson.
Or that another just happens to have sang on AI this year.
And so on and so on and so on.

Also keep in mind the whole reason for the contest
in the first place.

From realityblurred.com

The producers are tired of complaints about the songs, particularly from the judges. Nigel Lythgoe gives a particularly bitchy response about such criticism, saying, “They’re on hand to judge singing. It’s unfair to knock the final song. Randy does it more than anyone else, probably because he only says five words over and over all season. We send him a dictionary every Christmas, but he doesn’t read it.”

From ctv.ca
"I just want the poor contestant who wins to be happy to sing a song that radio's going to play," Abdul said.
Warwick agrees that the tunes written for the finalists have been wanting. They've been chosen by 19 Entertainment, which produces "American Idol" with FremantleMedia North America, and Sony BMG. The winner's record contract, signed with 19 Entertainment's 19 Recordings, is licensed to Sony BMG.



Do I consider someone who has made an cd
and sold it on the internet and made a few bucks a pro?
No not really.
Do I consider someone who plays in a band and makes money a pro?
No not really?
It's not about if they were pro or not.
It's about what is right.
There are way to many connections.
But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Thanks for at least talking about it.

But the proof is in the pudding. The song that won was really good. Of the final 20 songs, I thought 16 of them were excellent. And I didn't hear a song from anyone else that was better than the song that won which didn't make the top 20. I screened a lot of them when people were angry they didn't get chosen. The best song I heard that didn't make it was Tammy Edward's song and it had an obvious flaw in the demo that likely eliminated it. Kelly Corsino posted here and her producer for the track is a long time JPF member. She's hardly a connected insider. So we know at least SOME of those chosen were not really connected to anyone and thus they had to get there on merit. If I got 25,000 songs, and 10 were from people I personally know and all 10 were in the 20 best, shouldn't I pick them?

As someone who screens more music each year than any other human in the world (I challenge you to find someone even CLOSE in numbers) I know that the songs they chose had merit as a collection and likely represented the best of what they got. One guy who was screaming it was unfair and that his song was clearly better had a song entered that wasn't even a 2 out of 10, let alone in the league with the songs chosen. Find me a song entered that was clearly better than the winner and then we can start a real conversation. To date, even with the conspiracy talk, I haven't heard one any closer than Tammy's. I thought her song, even with the flaw, was better than 4 of the final 20. But even she thought the winning song was better. (In fact, she chose it right off the bat and said it would win and she was right).

I encourage all the JPF members I meet on the Roadtrips to enter music in our awards. If it gets nominated later, it doesn't mean it was a conspiracy, even if I know them or stayed at their house or have become friends with them. It means their work deserved the recognition. I think they chose a good Top 20, and even if not perfect, it was clearly close enough to be satisfactory and fair.

Brian

Well you are entitled to your opinion.
I totally disagree with you.
How anyone can defend this is beyond me.
And as far as how good the winning song was
well that is a matter of opinion.
I personally thought it was the same old same old
And was quite boring.
I've entered other contest.
Won some lost some.
And I have never encountered anything like this.
I could understand one maybe even two direct connections.
But we are talking a lot more than that.
And as far as Kelly Corsino is concerned.
Ever heard of Framastan music.
One of it's clients is Fox Television.
I would call that a connection.
And against the rules.
I am really curious as to why you are defending this?
And by the way I also chose
the winning song before it was announced.
It really was a no-brainer.
Once again I thank you for your opinions.
Even though I disagree with you.
Except about entering other contest.
There are some good ones out there.
And no matter what any one says.
This contest was billed as an amateur contest.
It was totally misleading.
And very deceptive.
And just plain wrong in so many ways.

Southbound,

I know the person who produced her song. He's a long time JPF member. He's not connected to anyone. Having a minor connection to Fox Television isn't even close to a relevent connection. I know all sorts of people with that connection.. it didn't get THEM in the final 20.

Conspiracy theorists of all ilk often cherry pick little details while ignoring the big obvious ones. They do it all day long with the ridiculous 911 conspiracy theories. You are suggesting pre-meditated conspiracies. Connections such as listed above prove no such thing. People who are talented enough to get in the top 20 are most likely going have a career. For your conspiracy to even be taken seriously, you need to show premeditation and you also need to show that no one who ALSO had a similar connection was overlooked. The songs in question were quite good. Do I think that people connected to the show said "send your songs in" to their friends? Absolutely. Why wouldn't they?

Even you admit they violated no rules. It was never limited to amateurs (whatever that would be). It was also not limited in other ways (such as no connection to Fox TV or 21 Entertainment etc). The contest made no real money, so that part of a conspiracy doesn't add up. (250K to AI isn't even chicken feed nor worth the efforts...). I am never surprised when someone with a friendship or connection to a decision maker gets a shot. As long as the work has merit, which those songs did, then it SHOULD go to those who work hard, spend time networking and taking little steps toward success. That's why for 10 years we've been doing networking events of all types all over North America. It's critical that you get to know folks. People try to help people they know and like before people they don't know or hate. You would do the same thing. If you have 1000 great songs of equal quality.. something has to be the tie breaker. Guess what is the most obvious ones? People who are easy to work with, people who are easy to be around, people who have worked hard and who you like. If you want a career and shot in the music industry, you better start making friends, you better have a lot of talent, you should have some integrity and honesty and you should treat people well. That will put you position to win the tie breaker yourself. If you haven't bothered to do those things, then you have nothing to complain about that others who did win out.

As for you Southbound, why don't you post or at least sign your post with your real name? I'd think you'd be proud to be directly associated with your own words and statements. I post under my name and have no problem with you disagreeing with me. When you post anonymously, it's pretty hard to take your words very seriously.

It was NEVER billed as an amateur only contest to me. I know several major hit songwriters who entered and got nowhere. They took it very seriously. So did most industry friends I know who were writers. And some of them have all sorts of direct connections to Fox and in one case direct connections to the actual producers. They got no where. Wonder why? Their songs weren't as good as the one chosen for the most part. It's not that complicated.

If you want commercial success, start acting like a professional. If you want to be entered against only amateurs (so you have a better chance of doing well) don't whine about having no useful success. You can't have it both ways and no professional who is still hungry for a big cut is going to let a huge opportunity like the AI winners song go by without taking a serious shot at it. If you want to be a serious writer, compete against the best. If you measure yourself and compete against only amateurs, that's all you'll ever be.

Brian

The facts speak for themselves.
I would say ownng a production company
with Fox as one of the clients is a little more
than a small connection.
I think I am beginning to understand why you are
defending this.
And as far as being professional.
I'm sorry I think anyone who has any standards
or ethics would call this contest what it is.
I really don't see what networking or who you know
has ANYTHING to do with a songwriting contest.
If this contest was anywhere near fair.
Than who you know or how well you network
shouldn't come in to play at all.
So when you say networking is one of the reasons that
any of the top 20 got in the top 20
Than you are proving the very point I am trying to make.
And as far as using my real name.
Well all I am doing is sharing the facts
and my name or where I.m from doesn't matter.
When I entered this all I wanted was a fair shot.
As I'm Sure was the case for all the other songwriters
And how you are going to try and convince anyone
this was fair I can't understand.
And integrity and honesty?
Show me where AI were honest about anything.
Just look at the AI bios.
On Jennifer Hamady's bio it never mentions she sang
on the show this year.(WHY)
Or that Marti Frederiksen is a producer with Clive Davis (WHY)
Or that Cj Vanston has played with Randy Jackson (WHY)
Or that Scott Krippayne And Melinda Doolittle Appear on
An album togeather (WHY)
It is almost embarrising to watch
people try to defend this.
But there are two sides to every coin.
And if you are telling me this is the way it should be
I'm sorry but I think you are wrong.
And it really bothers me that
anyone whould try to defend this.
Because you are in a position to help songwriters.
And I can't see how saying this is right
is in any way helpful
Anyway it's your board.
I appreciate you allowing me to post.

Let the people decide.
Thank You.

Southbound,

Or should I call you Mr. Anonymous? You have very strong opinions. I think they mostly come from a position of not knowing much about how things work. When a contest is being judged by humans, there is no exact formula that determines which songs are "better" and which are not. So when you have a mass number of entries and you get to a point where 100 different songs must compete for 20 slots, humans will often then go with something that appeals to them and they feel connected to. If you were able to produce songs that didn't make the Top 20 that the average listener would consider better than those chosen, and more importantly than those that won, then you'd certainly have a point to make that insider connections allowed those songs to rise to the top. On the other hand, if the best 20 songs were chosen out of those eligible, then it doesn't matter how connected the top 20 are, the right and just songs made the top 20. If we agree that there were no rules broken for those 20 songs to be entered (and you've not provided any evidence suggesting that isn't true) and if the average person would find those 20 songs either equal to or superior to those not chosen, then where's your beef? Are you mad that people who are pro's in the business decided that THEY'D like a pay check and success so they entered like everyone else? You can't seem to provide me with the songs that were unfairly left out of the Top 20. So all this sounds like is sour grapes and crazy conspiracy talk.

There's an old game called 6 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. Most people are familiar with it. I'm now directly connected to Kevin via JPF and his long time opening act Cindy Alexander who is a previous JPF female artist of the year. He's a nice guy. So anyone connected to JPF (even you in this case) is only 2 degrees removed from Kevin Bacon. The truth is that nearly anyone active in the music business will have ties to someone connected to that show. Sure, some are more frequently connected, but in the case of some examples listed, those are hardly serious connections. Steve Seskin, who has written 3 #1 songs for Tim McGraw (that's pretty darn directly connected right?) told me he could never pick up the phone and call Tim and pitch something. He has to go through the same process as everyone else, known or unknown, every single time. So your conspiracy theory, flawed at the start anyway because it appears the 20 songs chosen were deserving or at least equal to any entries received, becomes more false as you really understand the workings of professionals in the business. Since you refuse to use your real name, we can't judge if you have some unknown level of professional experience to allow you to have more insider knowledge of this than someone simply expressing sour grapes. So I have to conclude you don't really understand how the business works for real writers and artists who have all sorts of "connections" that many others who entered ALSO had but that didn't result in a top 20 finish.

Brian

Mr. Whitney,

You're a very smart man. I can really see why so many turn to and value your expertise. There isn't one thing I could lend to this thread that you haven't already said. Thank you for being there.

But we are not talking six degress here .
We are talking about direct connections to the show.
If this were a contest on who you know.
Than yes I would say it was fair.
But it was not.
It was a songwriting contest.
How can you read this and still say it was fair?
From the AI website
Their words not mine.

"American Idol has been the vehicle for discovering so
many great new artists over the years and now, with
the launch of American Idol Songwriter, we are
searching for great undiscovered songwriting talent,”
stated Simon Fuller. “Having an untapped songwriter
create the winner's single seemed like a natural next
step for our show. Not only do the fans pick their
American Idol, but also his or her first single. This
show has always been, and will continue to be, all
about fulfilling dreams."

Was I upset about not winning?
A little at first.
I think anyone would be.
But than to find out that people
Who have worked on the show won.
That is not right.
Sourgrapes? I don't know maybe.
But I know this whole contest
has left a lot of people with a bad taste.

More to the conspiracy theory

American Idol Songwriter, contestant Iggy Taylor operates a chain of fast food restaurants that advertise on Fox Television. Coincidence? No the plot thickens. This chain is currently giving away Homer Simpson toys in their kid’s meals, another Fox Television connection. Is it a coincidence that American Idol judge, Simon Cowell, was also a guest on the Simpson’s? I think not.

Iggy drives a Ford who , oddly enough, sponsors American Idol. What are the chances?

Iggy also has spent time with Mark Farner, formerly of Grand Funk. The band, Grand Funk and the band Journey once shared a stage. The bass player for Journey was AI judge Randy Jackson. Another coincidence? Wait there’s more.

Sony/BMG has had a long term relationship with Simon Cowell. Iggy, recently recorded with Mike Caro, who was a session musician for Sony. Mike also recorded with Celine Dion who also was a guest on American Idol. Innocent connections, hardly. Hmmnn.

American Idol’s Justin Guarini recently MC’ed a beach bash featuring Chuck Berry. Many years ago, Berry performed on stage with John Daubert who just happens to be in the same band as Iggy. Still more.

Screen legend, Mickey Rooney has appeared in numerous commercials aired on Fox. Is it just by chance, Iggy met him in 1968? Hardly. Strange that Iggy’s guitarist name is Dennis Rooney. A relative? Paybacks for past favors?

Finally, Iggy has met, fed and performed for Brian Austin Whitney. Whitney operates Just Plain Folks who claims Kevin Bacon as a member. Ironically Kevin Bacon recently appeared on American Idol Gives Back.

Quite the conspiracy.

Southbound, Dude or Dudette: I entered and I lost because others were better than me. If you feel AI was fixed because of connections, then get yourself connected. I sure have!

Whatever,
I'll say it again.
You know what?
Why waste my time?
The facts say it all.
I'm done.............

Iggy,

That was, without a doubt, the best post you've ever made here and one of the best I've ever read from anyone!

Southbound can get as mad as she (or he or it) wants.. but Iggy so perfectly demonstrated how easy it is to find connections to anyone who is active and professional in the music industry. Southbound refused to offer a single example of a song that was better than the one that one. Southbound doesn't claim the winning song was illegally entered. That leaves only the reality that the best song entered won. But for a conspiracy theorist, the last thing they'll ever accept are facts and truth. That ruins all their fun and victimization.

Brian

I'm not mad at all.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
And Iggy's post was good.
I understand 6 degrees.
But once again we are not talking about 6 degrees.
We are talkin about people who have either worked on the show
or have direct ties.
We can go on and on,
Whats happened has happened.
By the way I am not an it.
And I don't see how Iggy demonstrated anything.
Except his connections were not close enough.
You are right networking and connections
are very important.
But not in a songwriting contest.
I wish everyone nothing but the best.

Peace......