JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Recording Studio and Gear Forum Using eq and fx

I have listened to quite a few demos recently and am quite surprised by the poor quality standards of some of these from a basic technical point of view. Most have very poor balances and the eq and fx can only be described as awful, in a lot of cases spoiling a good song and performance. It is about time that some of the more experienced members gave some tips and advice on how to correct these issues. Maybe the folks do not listen to their demos from this point of view or they just do not have the ears or know how to correct these flaws but a crash course in mixing and editing might not be a bad idea. If you cannot get the simple basics right how can you sell a song. It also might help save a lot of time effort and money wasted on producing a bad demo that has to be redone.

Hi Big Jim,

To set eq, I suggest the use of an RTA(Real Time Analyzer). These come as computer software and stand-alone units. These units output either pink or white noise into your mixer, and include a calibrated mic so that you can adjust your equalizer to arrive at a "flat" eq response. If the room in which you record tends to boost the bass, the graphic display on the RTA would guide you to reduce the lower frequencies.

You can spend as much as you want on one; the one I purchased was around $100 on ebay-not the nicest one, but it does what I need.

Steve Vasil
northwest GA, USA

Hi Steve.
Never used one, my ears are cheaper. Maybe a good tip for someone without ears.

This concept has been discussed before. It seems when someone get critiqued on their production around here - people get offended. That's part of the reason why I will very rarely post about someone's production around here.

Jody

Hi Jody if people get offended by crits then they should not post. It is a learning tool and easy to spot a malicious crit or unnecessary savage one from a constructive one. I thought all musicians were thick skinned as it goes with the territory. My point was that some people could actually learn and benefit from their mistakes by getting some tips from experts on how to produce better quality sounds on demos.

Hi Jim

Computers, Computers Computers!
Everyone has one therefore everyone is photographer, graphics artist, filmmaker. producer, and a recording engineer, musician, songwriter and much more.

The answer is:
Most people use there equipment to get there ideas down on something. For us years ago that was a tape recorder. That was the only choice we had, They didn't have reel to reels and analog mixing boards at home, (I did though
Now everyone has a computer set up. This allows there work up demos to be much more elaborate. Some people have never even been in a band and they are setting musical levels on a computer screen.

I have found most people around here who post music know they dont have that kind of thing down and mention it all the time when posting.
The ones who are serious about shopping there work usually always seek out help.
Many are having fun with it all

I have heard many people make huge improvements on there demos over the past years. Everyone has different goals and most of it is in there songwriting here. Spending lots of time on learning about and working with recording and spending lots of money on gear and then working with it etc.. will cause you to lose focus.

The better you get at one thing the less you can improve on another. If you write songs then start getting into producing and recording, you would not believe how far away from songwriting and your original plans you can get.
Not saying a a little time focused on your home productions is not important and anyone making there own recordings should and probably will improve in those areas. I have made some huge edits that freaked out musicians here in the studio and I turned to them afterwards and said "Now how far away from songwriting are we now"?

But once you go down the road of recording and getting equipment and you start to enjoy it.. Your Finished! It is endless and the time effort and money drain never ever, ever stops..

I am in the middle of working on something right now that will be very cool and should be very helpful to our friends here. I took the path of doing it all to the max, many times I wish I hadn't, what a bass player I would be ...Now If I can just stay well enough to get anything finished

Hi Mike I hear what you say and I too remember the bad ol days when..... och I wont go into all that.... Now we are in the good old days and I think it about time that folk making demos know the BASICS on how to set up and record one. It is an integral part of songwriting. It is not rocket science. That is why I suggested that more experienced folk should supply ideas and tips so that folk could learn. I am not suggesting that folk spend a lot of money on equipment and take degree courses on sound engineering. I am talking about hints and tips to save time and money in getting the Basics right. Maybe I have missed something here but is this not the point of this forum?

Hi Jim,
Having played with bands that were way too loud, and having worked in an industrial setting for several years, I can no longer rely on my ears...The RTA gives me a good starting point. It's great your ears are reliable.

Your original post was asking for tips for those who are less experienced. I meant this post for them, kind of assuming you didn't need this.

Steve

Hi Steve I was only teasing. I said a good tip for folk without ears. I meant to say and should have said "experienced ears that do not know what to listen for".

Hi Jim,
Although I mostly post my music on here to get a general critique of the lyrics and basic melody I do appreciate it when I get advice of any kind. My song you responded to on the mp3 feedback (When Daddys go to War)is an example of this.
I fully admit I do not know much about the technical aspect of recording, I simply try to find an unusual or interesting sound to go with and let it rip. Having said that, when I attempt to re-work this song I'm sure I will have your comments and advice in the back of my mind. After all, I want the song to sound as good as I can make it with my limited ability.
To get to the point, I agree, if your going to post a comment on a song, I see nothing wrong with pointing this issue out if it is that bad. The worst that can happen is that I will learn something. We should always be open to constructive critism. Take Care! Steve

Hi Jim,

No problem here. I knew what you meant. I didn't want to come across as obnoxious.

I recently finished mastering my forthcoming CD. I took a copy over to a buddy of mine whose opinion I really respect. He was really critical of my vocal levels until the last song on the CD, which he thought was perfect. This really bummed me out; now I'm working with digital recording software and taking greater care with mixing. After listening to my tracks again, I did re-do the vocals on one song-it was a bit weak. I decided I could rest easy with the rest. In the long run, I think it is important to clearly present the idea without alot of frills or gimmicks. I am convinced that if you have a brilliant idea, record it reasonably well and get it in the hands of the right people, you will experience success. The last song on the CD is the one for me to reference as to how vocals on my recordings should sound. Life is good.

Steve

Thanks Steve My comments are not meant to be unkind or hurtful rather JUST HONEST OPINION to try to help and improve things. If someone benefits great. If not well its their song or recording AND IF THEY LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS GOOD LUCK.
I remember trying to help a dog that had been struck by a car. It bit me. Does not put me off helping other dogs in similar positions. Please do not take that last sentence the wrong way no pun or insinuations intended. Thanks again JIM

Hi Jim

By all means we all want to improve the quality of our demos. And that is a part of what this forum is all about. Except nobody posts songs on The Recording thread and asks for this kind of help really. Maybe they should! All the songs you heard were on the mp3 forum. Seems most people are concerned with there songs not there demos.
They will ask for comments about the production sometimes and are all certainly open for suggestions.

It ain't rocket science but it aint easy either. To get good results takes a number of things and time being one of them that's what most people don't have.
Especially songwriters... what does verse lyrics have to do with 250khz or 4:1 ratio of compression.
Writing lyrics and music and then playing instrumnets and recording then mixing and mastering then promotion/shopping are all different skills.
Each one separately can occupy a lifetime. They have have certainly used up my life and spit it out

I agree with you 100% on this... and today especially if you wanna give your music any chance it has to be done well. The good old says are over. I wish they weren't

Hey Mike RE good ol days and wishing they werent over. So do I. If I could turn back the clock I would be thirty years younger and have all the energy to......... you know what I mean...... and also could enter AI. I could be a millionaire with the knowledge and experience I have NOW....ha ha ha
I would still offer my help to anyone who needs it. Still be one of the boys with my feet firmly on the ground. Ah life is too short.

Ya' have to forgive Big Jim..

It's those years he spent trying to get the buzz out of Rory Gallaghers strat and old fender bassman setup that's fried his ears!

I wonder if Big Jim was with Rory in 1974 when Rory worked with us in Lake Genenva Wisconsin...hmmmm..I wonder, if like me, Jims grey matter is so damaged he's not really sure where he was in 1974.

Well..to the subject at hand..I agree with Jim...overuse of eq and fx is the destroyer of good work.Keep it simple, folks..don't try to be Phil Spector.
Look at the trouble he's in!

Bob Young

Hey Big Jim,
I, who know nothing about sound recording, am one of the thousands of people Mike is talking about. I've always had a musical ear but couldn't really play any instruments all that well. Not that I put much time into practicing. But along came computers and wham!, I have a way to get my muscial ideas down.

In fact, I didn't ever think I could write a song until I hit 50 years old. I guess you have to live long enough to have something to say. Anyway, I don't know beans about recording and mixing, but am having a blast writing music. And I just recently stumbled on this board for songwriters.

I, for one, would love feedback on making my songs sound better as long as it's something that I can implement with my current setup or with a small investment which I would have to save for. I already realize that I'm very heavy handed on the fx, but just being a beginner, I'm curious to use all the bells and whistles to see what they do.

If you like, you can check out my song, Destiny, on the MP3 board.

BTW, my wife and I hope to visit Scotland soon. I've heard that Edinburgh is one of the great cities of the world and a must-see.
I've got to sell a few paintings first.

Hi Biskit

Not to intrude on your reply to Jim but I noticed your post and wanted to say
that it's great you are getting into your music so heavily now.

It's funny when you said you were onre of the thousands of people Mike (being me) was talking about. When I discuss music in general it usually applies to the masses
or whichever isolated situations someone is in.
This being because I have been in all of them... I may not have all the answers but I know every single problem.

Computers are great for so many reasons you cant begin to mention.
i dont know where recording would bve without them but with them no body has the same setups. You would think that wouldn't be the case but years ago you had 2 things an analog mixing board and a reel to reel tape deck. Only difference was the tracks 4 -8 -16-24 and the tape sizes and speed the machine ran at.

The confusion from the options on computers is staggering.
Can kill all your creativity in a micro second

All the best and I'll look for your songs to on the boards...

Here's a freeware plugin. There are many better sounding processors, but this has a cool visual that makes it a good learning tool. It analyzes the onboard audio (still doesn't help with room sound) and has a multiband compressor/limiter that tames the wild freqs.

This would really help a lot of folks' demos without costing...well...anything. I've got it in my cubase VST file, but I think it will run DirectX also (it opens on my sonar.) If not there are freeware wraps, also cakewalk and sonar have vst wraps included. I've used it for accordion tracks to give them a home where the squeezebox can roam.

Hope this helps.

http://www.trifex.de/buzzrizerlight.html

Mike

Ya know, when it comes to FX I always rely on my analog out board effects.
I do enjoy using my arsenal of softwar effects, but when it comes down to buisnes, the real thing is always more exiting (all the knobs, swithes, sliders, lights, love it, not to mention the end result).

Hi All Nice to see a good discussion with lots of reminisces and some good tips. Keep it going.

Hi Bob Re Rory
Did not do USA but did a European in 72/73. If my fried braincells remember rightly it was the Tele that caused the most problems AND AS FOR THE MANDOLION SHEESH . He sat the ol beat up Fender amp on a chair, pride of place centre stage. DID SOUND GOOD THOUGH. R I P

Hi Kaboombahchuck
You cannot beat the knobs, sliders and flashing lights. Except when the red ones flash.!!!! or even worse stay on.

Hi Biskitboy.
Get selling those paintings. Edinburgh is a great place with lots to do. Very good music scene if you know where to look.
Look me up if you ever decide to visit.
I will check out your music and either send pm or post comments (constructive)

Ya know all the lights in the world won't save you in the end.
I do have a great sound card to boot... 24 bit 96 KHz... even that aint goin to get me to the finish line...
In the end it comes down to being able to hear what it is you've done.
If you don't have some decent monitors (no not the one your looking at, the ones you should be listining to) you will never get it. Even a deaf person with a desent pair of monnitors can hear. If what your are listining to are called speakers, throw them in the trash (or religate them to a secondary). Many times I see folks posting "I lisended this on this system and on that system to no avail".

I think that a lot in the quality standards may be just that anyone in their home now (of course) can just put up an mp3.
This has had it's advantages and disadvantages.
I have heard so many beautiful recordings that have an almost airbrushed, AOR production.
But the artist does not know about the business end of the net to get heard and is cast in the lot with the sound card bumblers.
I have to include myself amongst those bumblers.
But it has opened up new doors for people to get heard.

Beats an RIAA board anyway.

Also, the uploading streams themselves can hamper a recording.
A recording sounds much glossier before upload.
And some have a lot less powered recording setup than others.

I try to upload at 192 kbps wherever I can.
But even at that there is a lot of sound reduction.

There are musicians though that seem to be able to think ahead with that.
I would have loved to hear some of their original recordings.

Matt