JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback Lyric Feedback Forum 3 The Chicks Were Right (But Then They Left)...Feather Ruffler Warning!

Let me preface this by saying that if you have a tendency to get your panties in a wad when you read an opinion that differs from yours...you may wanna stop reading right now... cause this could hurt! But also lemme say that the idea for this was sparked by a letter to the editor that appeared in last week's Country Weekly magazine which had been written by a young soldier who had just returned from 2 tours in Iraq. He said that he really missed the Dixie Chicks music and thought that those who objected to the comments made by their lead singer Natalie Mains were being totally hypocritical because it was his understanding that he was fighting over in Iraq to protect the rights of all US citizens including the right to hold dissenting opinions and to speak those opinions in public.

I am well aware that the sentiments expressed herein will not be shared by all on this board. I can handle that. I don't expect nor need agreement on this. SO feel free to express your opinions...but do keep in mind that this is not a rant..it is a lyric. LOL Enjoy...or not!!

Hugs,
Bobbie


The Chicks Were Right (But Then They Left)
© 2006 Lyrics by Bobbie Gallup ASCAP

Now we've got boys in foreign lands
Dying in those desert sands
And in Afghanistan things have gotten worse
At home we're still denying
That all the gas that we've been buying
Isn’t merely fattening the presidential purse

CHORUS:
When societies are in trouble,
From out of the rubble…
Sometimes a Churchill will arise
But then at other times
When we so desperately need a hero,
Sometimes we get a Nero
We just have to learn to overcome I guess
Cause the Chicks were right but then they left

We know there really is no ozone hole
Over the North or South Pole
And climate change is not because of man
And as the waters start to rise
Right before our eyes
We’ll praise the Lord and say it was His plan

CHORUS: repeat

We’ve got a Veep who shoots his buddy
While we try to dike up ol’ Big Muddy
So we can start to rebuild New Orleans
So the next huge hurricane
Can come back and do the same
As they toot their horns and pass around the beads

CHORUS: repeat

It’s clear we can’t admit it
And we sure refuse to quit it
Cause we’ve got a mandate on the right
He**, we know what we’re doin’
And we sure know who we’re screwin’
How come you folks refuse to see the light

BRIDGE:
I guess with age comes wisdom
Though sometimes age comes all alone
But I’ve become bolder as I get older
And I’m worried ‘bout this country we call home
When our leaders only seem concerned
With avoiding accountability
Watching them becomes a performance
In escaping culpability

CHORUS: repeat

Now I spent four years of my life fighting
So that folks here had the right
To speak their minds on anything they choose
Now I’ve never been political
But I think it’s mighty hypocritical
That lovers of Chicks music had to lose


[This message has been edited by Bobbie Gallup (edited 03-08-2006).]

Hi Bobbie-
Like I've mentioned before, politics is not my bag but;

v-1
That all the gas that we've been buying
Isn’t merely fattening the presidential purse

The amount of oil we get from Iraq, is only an extremely small amount, compared to the other places we get oil from.
Check out the quiz in this web-site.

http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html

And, the accidental shooting by Dick Cheney, was exactly what it was;
an accident, and is being very much overplayed.

Cal

This thread should get a lot of attention.


http://www.soundclick.com/calskomski


Go Mark Levin!





[This message has been edited by Cal (edited 03-08-2006).]

Well I thoroughly enjoy your freedom of speech. WoW.

vanessa

Well, Bobbie!

Aren't you up to something!!!! I generally refrain from politics and religion in my writing, with very few exceptions. that said, I have one coming up in a day or two called "Crayons" that will probably garner a mild disention or two, depending on your perception of social values. but, back to your song...after all, this is YOUR thread!

Philosophically, I don't differ too much from you. Politically, I'm an Independent who leans slightly left. That's all I'll say about that.

My only nit on the song is that the hook is used but one time in the chorus. Would like to see that developed just a bit more. As is, it is easy to forget your hook and, instead, pay more attention to general political observations you make. Except when I read the line about the Chicks, I truly had forgotten that they were the hook.

Wish I had some ideas about how to do that, but I'm in a pretty dry spell right now.

Other than that, don't see any problems.

Alan

------------------
If I were but half as good as Dawg...I'd be twice as good as most.

Alan on Soundclick

Howdy Cal...

Appreciate you checking in. Those lines actually don't refer to gas we have been buying from Iraq...but rather all the gas that all us buy at the gas station...the windfall profits somehow ending up benefitting the administration. And the line about the VP...are just saying he was out sport hunting while we try to repair the damages in New Orleans...nothing meant about it not being an accident. Try not to read between lines that are not there.

Thanks for the read and remarks. I realize this is shaky turf for a lotta folks.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Vanessa!

Thanks for the vote of support. I will happily accept a WOW anytime you wanna pass one my way. I think reading that letter in the magazine sort of started the thoughts rolling in this direction and this just all came out this afternoon. Glad you enjoyed the expression even if not the content. LOL Sometimes I just have to get those words out.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Alan,

I am pretty independent also. I vote for whoever seems to cover the bases I consider essential for the good of all people. It gets tough sometimes. I rarely do political stuff in my songs...they just never seem to serve any real purpose other than to push people further apart. Lemme tell you that the Dawg was harping on me purty hard today as I was writing. Would be tough to find two people more politically disparate than we were. But at least we were tolerant..and could laugh about it. And since I was the only one who drove..I could just make sure he never got to the polls to vote. LOL

Back to your comments. Please understand that even though the hook only appears once in this chorus...the chorus does repeat 4 times since this is a rather uptempo number. Has to be to get through all the words. I want it to be upbeat anyway...not a downer kind of song.

I also added another verse to make it clear who was singing here and it brings it back to the Chicks. Hope that helps a bit.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Hi Bobbie, Like the title but didn't dare come in for awhile...then I thought I'd come in and read but not comment...I really don't like fueling a fire. So here I am at ease and feeling like we're all in this together again. I sort of heard about some controvery with the Dixie Chicks but didn 't follow it. Whats a Veep? A VIP slang? Only thing I could think of. Interesting that the soldier was that open minded and balanced...thanks for sharing that! Alot of people are excited about New Orleans being built back up again but alot are also thinking its only for the attraction/tourists and not the people who have to survive there-since the levy is supposedly worse than the last one.

On a good note. There's a man where I work who is writing a book on religious views and he's brought alot of us together to be part of the book and express our beliefs etc. People who are typically divided are coming together at work and looking at eachother differently, more positively! I like to think we can live together happily if there is mutual respect for our individual belief systems; politically or spiritually. Good Day, Linda

forgot to tell you I like the lyric and can see it being uptempo....too bad the chicks wouldn't pick it up?

[This message has been edited by Linda A (edited 03-08-2006).]

Howdy Linda,

Thanks for taking time to check this out...and to offer your thoughts on it. Yeah..sometimes I stop and wonder if I have anything really to offer on a lyric or if my comments will only server to stir the pot.
In this case...I found it tough to forget that young man's words...and felt a song just might need to be written. Not sure I still have the magazine but I thought if I did..I might see if I can track him down and share this with him at least. Let him know what his thoughts triggered. Wouldn't it be grand if we could all just live in perfect tolerance with others?

Oh..and VEEP is an old term for VP or Vice President. You know..Dick Cheney who shot his hunting buddy a few weeks back then didn't tell the press for a few days. Kinda dug himself in a bit of a hole on that even though everyone eventually did agree that it was an accident. Still he didn't have the right license to be hunting that day. Not good when you are the nation's VP.

There is a lot of discussion these days surrounding the fact that because of the levee system, the Mississippi River can no longer serve to keep depositing silt and maintain the current level of New Orleans...so over time, and with the loss of the outlying sand bars and small islands...there is nothing left to protect New Orleans in the event of another disastrous hurricane. We essentially have what was an incredibly lovely city...but built surrounded by water and below that water level. The hard nosed among us are saying...what a stupid thing to even consider rebuilding a city in such a place. But what an elegant old city and what an incredible loss of culture if it is not rebuilt...so it is an extremely difficult scenario with no clearcut easy answer.

As for the Chicks singing this..I don't think so. It really needs to be sung about them by someone who was their friend or close associate...or perhaps who simply supported their right to say whatever they felt. Maybe someone like Willie Nelson. Who knows?

Thanks once again.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Hi Bobbie
I really enjoyed this. I love Natalie Mains' voice. She is incredible.
I ain't even gonna touch the political content of this except to say some of the explanations you have given should not be needed if the lines were written to say what you meant.

I will touch on the ozone hole tho.
No one knew the hole was there til a satelite was put above it. Many scientist think it has always been there. As far as the oceans rising...weeellll, we are still coming out of the last ice age. We will continue to get warmer til the temperatures stabilize then it will start to get colder again.
God ain't got nothin' to do with it. It is the earths natural cycle.
BTW termite farts put more polutants into the air than people will ever produce.

I do like this one though.
Luv ya
hugs
Bill

------------------
www.soundclick.com/billrobinson

www.dreamqueststudio.com

Bill
Live with a song in your heart

Hi, Bobbie,

Here's what I have to say:

BOBBIE FOR PRESIDENT !!!!!

LOVED your "State of the Union" speech here.

My only suggestion:
I would have liked to see the hook at the beginning of the chorus ...or repeated more in the song.

Great work, my dear friend !

Emily

[This message has been edited by Emily Sanders (edited 03-08-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Emily Sanders (edited 03-08-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Emily Sanders (edited 03-08-2006).]

Howdy Bill,

All politics aside...I am first and foremost one of those "scientists"...and sadly...science truly does have the answers for what is happening with the ozone. It isn't pretty..and it is no longer something we can just stick our heads in the sand and avoid taking responsibility for. The best explanation I have seen so far for the ozone depletion is found here if anyone cares to know. http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/

This is a site where you can take a tour of the ozone hole and find out what we do know and the scientific basis for the depletion of the ozone. I sure am not about to debate with anyone who choses to believe that it is bogus. All I can say is...read for yourself and then come back and say it ain't so. Just because the spin doctors don't want everyone getting scared or making them change our policies that will impact big business in this country...doesn't mean the reality isn't going to hurt us. And funny thing about those termite farts...they just don't seem to be a factor in any of the scientific journals I read. Hmmmmm...makes ya wonder!!

As far as God not having anything to do with it...heck, there are a lot of us folks who pray every day hoping He does. If not..we are in a lotta trouble and we aren't gonna be able to fix things on our own. Whether or not our current state has anything to do with an ice age or not...at the current rate of loss of ice around the North Pole...the water is already rising as is the temperature of the ocean...and thus the severity of hurricanes. And climatologists everywhere can show that the rate of ice melt is increasing with such rapidity that in fact we may not be able to reverse it even if we were to totally stop dumping CFCS into the atmosphere tomorrow. Like I said earlier...this isn't politics..and it bothers me that we have allowed politics to determine our decisions regarding things that are far more significant IMO than terrorism. But I digress.

I do appreciate the insights here. I am about as patriotic as you can get. I choke up at the National Anthem...but that does not mean I agree with everything that is being done by our nation and by our leaders. That sure does not mean I am unpatriotic. I believe this is the best nation on earth...and I would die for it...but that is why I want to help make sure we take responsibility for making the RIGHT decisions because we ARE the world's leader..and the model for other developing nations. And...being that model comes with a lot more responsibility for being right and doing right.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Awww Ms Em...you are too kind!! LOL I could NEVER run for President! Heck, they'd only have to look as far back in my closet as the Dawg and know I had NO common sense whatsoever!! LOL I am a songwriter...so what do I know? Well, a scientist and a songwriter. I read a great interview a couple of days ago, however, with Lester Brown..and I remember thinking that it was the first time I had read someone's thoughts and really figured that that person had the answers. Unfortunately, he is probably too old to run for President..and I am sure he wouldn't consider it. But he understood the realities. If I can find the interview again I will send it your direction. I think I sent it to someone so I am sure I still have it in an email somewhere. He was amazing.

Thanks for the suggestion for the hook. I'll see if that can happen..though this is getting so long I am not sure I want to add any more lines that have to repeated 4 times. I talked with your hubby today. LOL Betcha he told you that. Sure appreciate you dropping in to keep me in line!!!

Thanks for the support too. Miss yakking with you during the week.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Well, from one outspoken, bold blonde to another, YOU GO GIRL!

But, what I have to say is that I am not a single bit surprised to learn that the soldier was self-aware and patriotic enough to not just "know", but to also admit to God (I know, God is another Politically Incorrect word) and countrymen that he serves his country so EVERY man/woman is free to speak his/her mind.

Having said that, I must admit, as many times as folks have tried to 'splain it to me, I don't quite understand why the President (And I use that term loosely) sent our troops over to Iraq to protect our freedom. Don't get me wrong, I SUPPORT EACH AND EVERY MEMBER OF THE ARMED SERVICES, wherever they serve. I'll be the first in line to shake the hand of a soldier and thank him/her for every ounce of sweat sacrificed. I love America and I love our soldiers. But, personally I feel like our Commander-in-Chief was puppeteered into trying to finish something started by dear old dad years before.

And Bobbie, you should be (and probably have been at some point) a speech writer.

Your words don't come from the politically correct cans of rubbish that get written, polished, sterilized, reviewed, rewritten, and voted on. Nope, yours come from the gut, from the heart - the only real voice that matters!

I'm on my feet applauding your words, girl!

Tink

Well good evenin' Mz Tink!!

Mighty nice to have you stop by and blow me away with your thoughtful and kind response. You are right..these words do come from my heart and my gut. Most days I just have to shake my head and wonder who is really believing all the stuff we are being fed as "truth". None of it adds up. Everything is "spin"..and anyone who has the temerity to speak up and speak out is labeled a "traitor". Well, that is NOT what this nation was founded on and I will stand up for anyone's right to speak whatever their viewpoints are.

And um...you are kinda right..at one point in my life I did write speeches for a couple of state legislators. Been a long time ago now...back in the late 80's and early 90's...but it was interesting to hear my own words come outta someone else's mouth at times. I was working for the MN Dept of Natural Resources at the time as the head of Visitor Services for the State Park System (marketing, public information and interpretation - natural, cultural and historical). Got to know the woman who was head of the House Appropriations Commmittee while working on a couple of bills..and she liked the way I thought and wrote. Got me to write a few speeches for her about resource related issues...and the word got out. Ended up doing speeches on the side (no credit of course) for her and a couple of other folks. They also appreciated the fact that I could provide them with occasional positive photo ops..with events happening in the parks. Once I got to write the speech for the Governor when Mikhail Gorbachev came to visit and they released the eagle LIBERTY at Ft. Snelling State Park. The funny thing was...that when Gorbachev came by limo to go to the Governor's mansion...he ended up getting out of the limo in front of MY house so that was what appeared on the news...Gorbachev coming to Bobbie's house!! My did I get the phone calls from friends that night!! LOL Of course I only lived three houses from the Governor...but it WAS funny!!

<bowing humbly to acknowledge your applause...and trying not to let it go to my blonde roots. LOL

Big hugs,
Bobbie

Ms Bobbie you are sure to get plenty of resonse on this one. Firstly I must say the lyric doesn't seem to say much about free speech. I can't even remember what the Chicks said. I believe their musical career was cut short due to overwhelming public resonse/outcry.Much like a boycott/protest, maajority rule kind of thing. I could be wrong about that. I don't much follow entertainment news. I won't venture into the pasture of politics in my new shoes. On global warming I've always had one question. You being an academic person, if you know a good statistician (from the mathematics department) could round up an answer. Weather in general really. My question is this considering the earth is 4 1/2 billion years old how large a sample size (terms of years) would necessary to provide a reliable result from any study? This is the most common basic failing of social science studies (you know 137 college freshmen were asked...). All too often not a large enough sample to rule out chance in the 1st place. If a statistician can compute an appropriate sample size in years to reliably analyze 4 1/2 billion years I'm curious. It seems that would be roughly the same sample size necessary to test a hypothesis effecting every human on earth (similar numbers). These studies require sample sizes in the thousands but it seems we've only been keeping meteorological records for a couple hundred years. There is alot we don't know most likely.
John

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Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword never had an editor.

Hi Bobbie,

This is interesting and thought provoking. Here are the thoughts it provoked for me:

If this lyric were not grounded in real events, I wouldn't even bring this up. However, I think it's relevant here...I'm having a hard time understanding the whole premise, because I think that freedom of speech means that everyone can openly express their views without fear of major retaliation from the government (imprisonment, heavy fines, etc.).

Natalie Mains expressed her viewpoint, and some people agreed and some people didn't. If her CD sales dropped, that is unfortunate for her, but it's not very major in the big scheme of things. Her fans were just exercising their right to freedom of speech. Everyone, in every profession, should have a good handle on who their audience is. If you don't intuitively know your audience, then you rely on good old-fashioned market research. If Natalie did not know that her fans felt so strongly about this issue, then it was simply a professional error on her part not to find out. No more, and no less. She's in the public eye, so it got public attention. Everyone, in every career, makes those types of mistakes and hopefully learns from them.

Even if you disagree with what I've just said , I think that the Dixie Chicks and the freedom of speech issue should be more clearly expressed in the verses. Without this, the chorus isn't as powerful as it should be either. I couldn't follow the chorus very well. I get that Churchill was a great leader. So then it says we don't have that, so then we have a Nero. I associate Nero with making lots of blunders and being insane. Okay...I'm still following...But then we get to the Dixie Chicks and I'm a little lost. While the Dixie Chicks commented on our government, I don't see where it all ties together. I just felt lost over those last two chorus lines.

One other thing I wasn't sure about was the intermittent switching from "our" to "I." We don't find out until the last verse that it's a soldier speaking. The other verses don't give that impression at all.

Also, I think that maybe our actual country name should be mentioned somewhere. It always feels good to hear our country's name in a song!

You always keep it interesting around here!!

Lisa


[This message has been edited by lgundling (edited 03-09-2006).]

Hi Bobbie, I would not choose to debate you on this issue at all. Mostly I agree with you. I have no clue as to the stability or pre-existance of the ozone hole. Just passing along something I have read.
I do wonder though where the CFC's are coming from. The United States and 180 countries around the world banned the use of CFC's in 1978. Just a few years after the hole was found.
If the CFC's are causing it where are they coming from?
I think I'll go on an internet search and see.
And, whether it has anything to do with any of it or not we are still coming out of the last Ice age. It won't be the first time the polar ice has melted. It has happened before. It will freeze again and it will melt again.
We might be helping it along but with or without us it will still happen. We are just freaking out because it is happening faster and in our life time.
Not sure who said the thing about the termites but I did read it in a science journal many years ago. I think it mighta been George Carlin, LOL.
Hugs
Bill

------------------
www.soundclick.com/billrobinson

www.dreamqueststudio.com

Bill
Live with a song in your heart

I am glad to be able to express my thoghts freely....and I am glad for others with different thoughts to be able to do the same! that being said I want to talk politics now, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH! there you have it! (great lyric BTW)

------------------

Good Morning Bobbie-
EWWWW .. you daring woman you!!
No... I will not comment on the political content of the lyric...
Sure is put together good & strong.
My only nit would be as others have mentioned.. the hook...
"Cause the Chicks were right but then they left"
Who are the Chicks!?!??! yes... I know who they are... should you leave it so vague & assume that all listeners will know? Their identity is so important to the point you are making.

Just a thought...
Joanne

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[*]The Best is Yet to Be,Joanne Lurgio-singer/songwriter www.joannelurgio.com


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Willie Nelson is coming to Maine soon...maybe I can meet him for coffee or poland spring water! I'm not a big country fan as some of you may know but I do know of the Dixie Chicks and knew that is whom you referred to in your lyric for what it's worth. I'm a rock, alternative, blues(motown), hip hop, punk folk listener mostly...hardly any country 'cept what I download from JPF members sites. I think everybody knows about "goodbye earl". If I had the popularity that band has/had I'd use my power to get my message across as plainly as I could regardless of my audience...they gained a whole other audience and respect from many for their honesty and guts. I'm going to Willie Nelsons website and gonna cause a stir! Hope he's home! Good Day , Linda A.

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=429263

you think you can, or you think you can't; you are right!"

Dear B.G.... twill stay out of my political views....but will say this is strong-from the-Gut...writing. I, too, had a bit of
pronoun problem

and also...I wanna ask ya...May I PLEASE borrow..."Feather Ruffler"..can hardly wait to wrap a song around that....I LOVE IT...

best to you....this mornin'
tis the coffee on?
kk

.

Bobby, you need to begin using your own material. I see this as a counter argument to Rumsfeld's Children. And some uncanny likenesses to my lyric... I can show you several lines that you used.

Man, whew! This site is way too Bush pandering for me. And I am not even a democrat. I just feel the man should be impeached.

But, I'm at least in the 73% margin of what MOST Americans believe. And that is: Bush and his cronies cannot be trusted. Read your paper!... most Republicans are voting against the Dubai deal which WILL sell our ports to terrorists...And he'll still go against his own party and Veto? He hasn't vetoed anything since he's been President. And, we have the biggest PORK spending in our countries history because of him... look Sharky, he IS an embarrassment to Texas. The Dixie Chix were right!

Dear Big,...I have to speak up.... I hope you are just kidding....and maybe I'm taking you wrong...but...

Bobbie Gallup does NOT.....I repeat....DOES NOT need to borrow...anybody's anything....
She is an excellent...leading writer on this board....

and yes, she can definitely speak for herself..but that comment irritated me.

best to you
Kaley

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Howdy John,

As I see it...the real issue underlying these issues is the fact that everyone forms an opinion, regardless of whether or not they have any facts on which to base them. In addition, there are so many ways to interpret the science...and even scientists need to pay the bills so...you will usually be able to find one to agree with and support whatever spin you want.

I've worked on enough academic studies to have a pretty good understanding of sample size but not sure how relevant that is to whatever point you are making about weather. Doesn't take a lot of samples for a climatologist to understand and predict the amount of damage that a class 4 tornado can produce, or that certain specific conditions can and most likely will produce a hurricane. With our new tools and technology, we have come a long ways in the past 50 years as far as understanding certain things about the earth and the atmosphere. As I said in my response to Bill above...the University of Cambridge website on the Ozone Hole is about the easiest for common folks to understand. http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/ Since we live in a sound byte society and most folks don't or won't take the time to read anything substantive, it doesn't surprise me that they base their decisions and opinions on less than informed snippets of information that is fed to us through the media. I also find it difficult to deal with folks who merely read with such a closed mind that they will only seek to find that portion of information which substantiates their already-formed opinions.

Those are the facts (ib the Cambridge site)...presented in such a manner that even non-scientists can understand what we are dealing with. This stuff is no longer "hypothesis". We know what is happening and for the most part, why. What we choose do to about it is the only thing that still remains to be seen. At this point...sample size really has nothing to do with it.

Since you indicated that you didn't follow what happened in the Chicks musical career, it was far more than them "losing a few cd sales"...and not simply a matter of a majority rule thing. They got blacklisted much like what happened during the McCarthy era and stations refused to play their music...banned them because of their political position. Isn't that censoring? Their politics have nothing to do with their music. Look at Bono. U2 is one of the hottest groups out there...and what of the folks who do not support their political position? We should not be banning artists just because they choose to speak out about what they believe in. Those of us who loved and still love the Chicks music have been prevented from hearing them anymore...and all because some folks disagreed with their political views. To me..that is what this soldier was taking issue with. And now...much of what they were saying has been shown to be true. It is sad IMO. And yes..I suspect this lyric will get plenty of response from both sides...as I expected it would.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Hi Bobbie,

Speaking of spin, here's a prediction:
Now that the Rublicans House Reps. themselves have killed the Dubai Ports deal, the left will relentlessly claim the victory. . . through "those" newspapers that BigA says you should read -- those 80% of the media outlets that together with the Democrats work feverishly to destroy the Bush Administration every day.

As we speak, Democrat Harry Reid is DEMANDING an up or down vote in the house about the Dubai Ports deal. . . BUT THE UAE HAVE ALREADY OFFICIALLY BACKED OUT OF THE DEAL. saying that they willingly relinquish control of the ports to America.

What is amazing to me is that people can't grasp political motivation behind the party and its darlings in the media, that desperately want the Whitehouse back -- the most fundamental thing about politics!

People have the left side of their scales of "justice" filled with what the left says about the right. . . and the right tray of their scales filled with what the left tells them to "think" about the right. . . and then they ferociously and hatefully maintain that their political opinions are the result of a balanced assessment. It is to laugh really.

And before we parrot the "McCarthy" re-run of Liberal spin on into the next century, try the #1 New York
Times best seller, "TREASON" by Ann Coulter. But as you said, most people veer sharply away from any substance that may contradict their alread-formulated opinions.

About McCarthy in the book Treason:


* How liberals invented the myth of McCarthyism -- "the greatest Orwellian fraud of our time" -- to prevent questions about their own patriotism
* Why the much-maligned Joseph McCarthy was "indispensable" in the fight against Communism. Why conservatives who concede that he "went too far" are misguided dupes of left-wing propaganda
* Why the primary victim of outrageous persecution during the McCarthy era was . . . McCarthy himself. How liberals hid their traitorous conduct by making him the issue -- and by doing to him everything they falsely accused him of doing to them

* Why the idea of a bowed and terrified liberal minority during McCarthy's "Reign of Terror" is plain poppycock. Proof that, then as now, all elite opinion was against him
* "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" The incredible facts behind this rebuke of McCarthy by attorney Joseph Welch -- and how it proves only the liberals' lack of honesty

* How the media's savaging of McCarthy -- which literally drove him to an early death -- foreshadowed their later treatment of liberal enemies like Ken Starr and Linda Tripp
* Defining patriotism down: how liberals have twisted it to mean little more than the "right to dissent" against any action taken by your own country
* Alger Hiss, Liberal Darling: How, despite massive evidence of his guilt, the entire liberal establishment ferociously defended him against charges of treason -- and tried to destroy the true patriots who tried to expose him
* Why, for the left, no amount of evidence proving anyone was a Soviet spy could ever be enough. How they treated blindingly obvious spies as innocent liberals victimized by the right

* Soviet spies in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations: what we now know for sure, thanks to KGB archives
* Proof that McCarthy nemesis I.F. Stone, so-called "conscience of investigative journalism," was a paid Soviet agent

I'd help with the song itself, but my mind would be taking too many political derails to make a review very practical, time-wise.

Cheers,
Terry



[This message has been edited by Tall_Terry (edited 03-09-2006).]

I like the hook, and I agree with that soldier's sentiment. I'm a conservative, but personally, I'm looking forward to the Chick's new country-rock CD. As for this lyric, it's hearty and well spoken, but maybe a bit too rant-ish for a country lyric - maybe folk? It is thought provoking!

[This message has been edited by Corey (edited 03-09-2006).]

Hey MR. BIG

you can take whatever liberal stance you want in this community and we will all support your right to do so whether we agree with you or not, BUT.

Bobbie Gallup has no need to borrow, steal, or otherwise use anything you have written in her songs.
Tread lightly sir.


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www.soundclick.com/billrobinson

www.dreamqueststudio.com

Bill
Live with a song in your heart

Ditto Kaley & Bill!!!!Don't go trashing the integrety of our very respected and good friend Bobbie That is certainly no way to make friends around here!
I think an apology is in order!
Joanne


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[*]The Best is Yet to Be,Joanne Lurgio-singer/songwriter www.joannelurgio.com

[*] Joanne's Gig Calendar - http://www.musi-cal.com/search?key=performers&value=Lurgio

[*] http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=100751
[*] www.cdbaby.com/cd/lurgio
[*] MySpace - www.myspace.com/joannelurgio
[*]www.cdbaby.com/group/justplainfolks

[This message has been edited by Joanne (edited 03-09-2006).]

Howdy Lisa,

Darn...I had this detailed response all ready to send and lost it. Hate when that happens. Will try to remember what I said...but hey..I am old and my memory is going!! To say nothing of being blonde in the first place!

This lyric really is about far more than a narrow focus on freedom of speech. When Natalie spoke out about the concerns she had about our president not dealing with the issues that she believed were important, she was blacklisted by many radio station chains because her political views were not aligned with those of the decision-makers at those stations. It didn't have much to do with fans IMO. And...why SHOULD an artist's political views make one iota of difference in whether or not their music is played on the radio? For example...throughout history, celebrities have used their name recognition to address issues and ideals they believe in. Bono is one of the most articulate and outspoken artists in the world...should we arbitrarily ban U2's music because we might not agree with his world perspective? I believe artists should be allowed the same freedom the rest of us are supposedly guaranteed by our Bill of Rights. If someone chooses not to buy someone's music just because they don't like that artist's political views...well, that is certainly their right also...but I have to ask them if that really is the spirit of patriotism in this country? Seems rather ludicrous IMO...but I would be the first to stand up and defend their right to make that choice.

As I said, my point here is not so much about the freedom of speech as it is the much larger picture of taking care of what is really important to this nation and that is far broader than just terrorism...which leads me to Nero. THe most famous quotation about him was "Nero fiddled while Rome burned"...which simply says that he wasn't focused on the real issue at hand.

As for those pronouns...the whole lyric is using the inclusive "we" to mean that the singer is putting himself in that group. We only discover in the bridge and the last verse who that singer actually is. That is by design. That is my attempt to employ the songwriting tool known as a "twist" which is an element that when it appears suddenly veers the song in an unexpected direction. I was "hoping" that by the time the listener gets to that point...they will have started formulating some opinions regarding this person being a somewhat rabid, radical leftie...only to discover at the end, that those opinions were incorrect. Because of the evolution of this lyric in that direction, it was necessary to start with the "we" and move to the "I" close to the end of the song. I chose not to name the country just because I did not feel there would be any doubt about which nation this is referring to. Sometimes it is better to let the listener fill in the blanks...gives them the chance to be right... or left..or whatever side they wanna be on.

Hope the background is helpful in understanding some of my choices in this lyric. I don't expect everyone to agree with it or with the soldier who initially addressed the issue. I simply hope it will get folks to think about it.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy dear Bill,

To be quite honest, there are so many "statistics" floating around these days it is difficult for even scientists to sort out the garbage from reality. As I said earlier...the info that is on the Univ of Cambridge website really is pretty easy to understand..well, that is if you understand chemistry. It does explain the CFC issue fairly clearly, however.

That termite thing SOUNDS like a George Carlin kinda comment..bless his hysterical soul. I read Grist for the same sort of comedic relief when it comes to environmental issues. Kinda like a good songwriter...they tell it like it is...but with a funny twist. Gets my juices flowing sometimes.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Kenneth,

Thanks buddy! Glad for the support. Coffee's on anytime you wanna talk politics...even if I don't actually drink the stuff...I'll gladly put on a pot for everybody else!! LOL

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Mz Joanne!!

I realize I could have clarified the issue of the Chicks more than I chose to. I still could..since this doesn't and probably won't ever get any music...who knows? LOL But..I kind of deliberately chose not to elaborate on that point...hoping that by not doing so, that listeners would have the chance to get one of those "aha" experiences when they figure out who it is about. I daresay that this would have far more appeal abroad than perhaps in this country. If this ever got on country radio and folks really DON'T know who is being referred to..then I am thinking that they are probably a lost cause anyway! LOL Not sure how many country music listeners could possibly have MISSED the Chicks phenomenon. I am sure there are some...but durn..I have so many songs in my catalog that I had hoped they might eventually cut!! I sure do appreciate your thoughts...and your restraint! LOL I had already made myself a list of who I was probably gonna take a beating from on the content here!!

Hugs...
Bobbie

Hi there Linda!

Love that Willie. He calls 'em as he sees 'em. I have never actually seen or heard him in concert so I am totally jealous! You GO girl. Hope you do get an audience with him. I am right with you...if I ever DID have any name recognition or popularity, I think I would feel as though I had missed an opportunity if I didn't speak out on issues I feel are important. Guess that even applies here when I come to think of it. I am not asking for anyone's vote...or that people agree with me. Heck..a songwriter can write a song about whatever moves them. I celebrate that...and it is why I love to read songs from all kinds of perspectives on here. Doesn't necessarily mean I will support, approve or give kudos to the writer for the content of their lyrics...but hey...they are more than welcome to write whatever they want. I may not understand some of the genres that you write in but heck...reading lyrics in other genres helps expand my mind...so I try.

Yeah..the Chicks took a real risk with "Goodbye, Earl". I applauded them then and still do.

Lemme know what Willie says!

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Mz Kaley-girl!

Of COURSE you may have FEATHER RUFFLER!! Tickled that you liked it. Not sure if I made it up or grabbed it from someone else to be honest. Can't wait to see and hear how you wrap a song around that. Whatever you do..I am sure it will be cute as the dickens!!

As I mentioned to Lisa, above..the pronoun thing was part of what I thought had to happen to let this evolve from the collective "we"...where the singer is placing himself as part of the greater whole...to the I at the end where he comes out of the closet to reveal that these are his opinions and observations.

Coffee's on...and I have some warm homemade cherry pie to go with it if you'd care to sit a spell!! Storm is a'brewin' in the West but we can sit on the porch and watch as it come this way. As you know..that ol' porch is right homey on days like this! Even Stump likes to sit there and watch the weather...but then he IS a strange cat! Reminds me of a dawg I useta have. He useta love to sit on that porch too. C'mon by.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Geeze Big...can't a lady even agree with you without getting beat up? The title of the song IS THE CHICKS WERE RIGHT...after all. LOL I suspect you are so bent on believing that nobody agrees with you that you were looking at this through the wrong pair of glasses if you interpreted it to be "pandering to Bush". Most folks who know me also know my politics are pretty centrist and independent..conservative on a few issues but definitely with a left lean on other areas.

However...this lyric in no way borrows from yours. I read your lyric as far as I could get without getting lost in the rhetoric. As the folks who know me will attest, I get plenty of my own inspiration and have no need to use anyone else's. As I see it, there is a distinct difference between our writing in that I have at least endeavored to structure mine within the commonly acceptable song forms...so that on the 'slight' possibility that someone might agree with this enough to consider putting it to music..OR cutting it (I am not a composer OR a performing songwriter) then at least they will have a basic structure from which to proceed.

And by the way...a hearty welcome to JPF. I think I have commented on some of your other songs...just chose not to do so on the political one. Sorry you misinterpreted this one. You really need to learn to recognize your allies, my friend!!

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Mz Kaley,

Awww...thank you for the sweet defense! I honestly don't think he was kidding around but I hope he was. I can take a joke with the best of 'em...at least when it is clearly intended to be humorous. Don't quite see how he could have read into my lyric what he seems to have read there...but...sometimes we find what we want to see. Seems like I just posted that lyric not long ago too!

Hopefully, John will come back and reread this and realize how far off he was. LOL I know that we here have sometimes bantered back and forth in jest, doing rebuttals to someone else's song but this lyric wasn't even CLOSE to that ballpark. I do have a mighty thick skin, however, where my own work is concerned...and can purty much handle any kind of attempted slam dunks. Learned long ago that it doesn't pay to take myself too seriously.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Tall One!

Now how come I knew you'd hate this lyric? LOL Thanks for dropping by and checking it out anyway! I do appreciate your thoughts and insights.

So the world was just out to get poor ol' Joe McCarthy, huh? Sheesh!! Remind me to light a candle for him. Yes, I have read some of Mz Coulter's writings...but I get a such pain in my neck just from shaking my head so often that I generally don't put myself through that punishment too often. As I said earlier...we see what we want to see..and she is a case in point. I certainly do not try to paint those who see things differently than I do as being guilty of 'treason'. She has certainly created a niche for herself..which I think may have been her intent all along. Can't honestly say that "proof" even enters the picture where her writing is concerned. But then that is merely my opinion on the subject.

Personally...I think the whole two party system with the electoral college making the decision has probably outlived its usefulness...but everyone is so vested in prolonging the division between the aisles that any variation on that theme will be a long time coming.

Hope all is well there on the island.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Corey,

I am also looking forward to more music from the Chicks. Though they deserved some "mommy-time" off for sure...there are a lotta folks out here who have missed their music. You certainly could be right that this is too over the top for country..but hey...did you see what Tim and Faith had to say today about the cleanup efforts on the Gulf Coast? They are known for being a-political...and I suspect they are gonna take some major flack for their comments now too...but maybe...just maybe enough folks agree with them now that they will survive the onslaught! I can only hope.

Hugs,
Bobbie

Howdy Bill,

Thanks for the backup buddy! Big is certainly welcome here and can say whatever he chooses about my lyrics but you folks all know that with over 3000 lyrics in my catalog...there is no way I need his! He just doesn't know the Meter Mama well enough yet!

Hugs,
Bobbie

Enjoyed it, Bobbie. Very well written and more entertaining than the Ditzy Chicks. Just kidding. To hell with politics - I want music!!!

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BOBBYJOE DEMOS

Think loose, write tight.

"Human speech is like a cracked kettle on which we tap crude rhythms for bears to dance to, while we long to make music that will melt the stars." - Flaubert

Hi Bobbie,

I must defend Ann Coulter.
If you had really checked out the ample factual substance behind her countless articles, you would know how dead wrong you are and to what extent the pride behind your own judgement of her has clouded your reason in this case.

Do you think Laura InGraham is a self-seeking, opportunist too? Just curious.

With all due respect , as they say.

Tall

woooo hoooo
1&2&3&4
I'm with you Bobbyjoe

Lets Dance!!!!!!!

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www.soundclick.com/billrobinson

www.dreamqueststudio.com

Bill
Live with a song in your heart

Bobbie it is a shame we don't hear the Chicks anymore but in all reality the best music out there may never get airplay for whatever reason. Just down my block is a man who's written the best music I've ever heard but not one cut.Who knows why not.I don't believe its a vast right wing conspiracy though.Perhaps the Chicks broke the rules. Just like Hollywood Nashville is particular. That's the way it is in both cases. One might be the antithesis of the other. And no I don't give a damn about any celebrity's opinion (not even on fashion). As far a science I only suggest we may learn a great deal more as time goes on and there may be a great many things we'll never know. I also know that science will chase after a particular viewpoint with abject disregard for objectivity to the point of abusing statistics. Too often the stats are thought of only as proof and I must prove my point so what will give me a .95 probability? I really like what Thomas Kuhn had to say about scientific paradigms (anecdotally of course).
John

Evenin', Bobbie. I'll stay out of the politics, too (mostly). Despite my being a damnyankee, I think I agreed with dawg on most political stuff. Unreconstructed troglodytes need to stick together. (That's one of the reasons why there's duct tape.)

From a musical standpoint, I have to repeat my ol' mantra that protest music should attempt to be timeless. That means watching out for expressing current events that may make the song irrelevant (and forgotten) later. I think you're making some very good points about freedom of speech being an important underpinning of democracy (that shouldn't be lost while we're fighting for it overseas), and they *should not* be forgotten (or forgettable).

A couple specifics. There's room in both the hook and the title to call 'em the *Dixie* Chicks. I would.

The "accountability/culpability" couplet. I think I'd keep just one of 'em--don't know as it matters which one--and replace the other with a string of good old one-syllable-and-proud-of-it redneck words. Multi-syllabic vocabulary enhancers are good in country music--TampaStan's proved that--but if you have too many of 'em too close together people will (my opinion) get wise to what you're doing.

I *liked* Nero. He played fiddle. A lot of the bad rap he got as Emperor may have stemmed from people not liking his fiddle playing. (I don't know as I've read any accounts that said he was any good at it.) I realize it's convenient to use him as the quintessential bad guy because he rhymes with "hero" (and "zero"). His mom, though, was the one who appears to have been thoroughly evil. Nobody remembers her (and her name doesn't rhyme with much of anything).

Age doesn't *always* come with wisdom if it sometimes comes alone. Ought to be a way to qualify this so that disagreers can't use it to diss the song.

And there *ought* to be a song about termite farts destroying the ozone layer. (Timeless, of course.) Could be popular. There are a lot of us out there who are trying to do our small part to take care of the problem by exterminating every termite we can find--even using CFCs to do it.

Only other non-political thought: The verse that talks about Cheney shooting his buddy and rebuilding New Orleans might be eliminatible. It struck me as a little off-topic, and my own inclinations would be to keep focused as much as possible on the freedom of speech thing. My own prejudice, obviously; one of the faults I always had with most of my fellow protestors in the '70s (the '60s didn't hit upstate New York until the '70s--it was a very backward area) was they were always bringing up extraneous, only marginally related stuff that didn't relate to the issue at hand.

Politically: If I shot my hunting boddy, it would not be front-page news in every paper in the country. Cheney was because he's Vice-president, and the office follows you around whether you like it or not. (Making funny on the desk with the office help isn't front page news, either, unless you're the President.) Of significantly more concern to me was the attempt to keep it quiet, and that Cheney had, or thought he had, the power to do so, and thought it an appropriate use of that power. (He's one of the reasons I'm glad Bill Clinton did so much to make the Federal government irrelevant.)

On New Orleans: As a city planner (one of the things I do as city manager), I'm aware that town locations don't happen by accident. New Orleans was built in a stupid place geologically for sensible economic reasons, which may well still be relevant. I have suggested to my colleagues in the planning "industry" that this is a golden opportunity to design a big city from scratch, and try to fix a lot of problems--but no one seems willing to make the investment. I'm sure you've seen the newspaper articles about the Corps of Engineers' plans to rebuild the levees *exactly the way they were before*. Sometimes, like you point out in the song, age does not come with wisdom...

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm

[This message has been edited by roxhythe (edited 03-10-2006).]

Nice one, bobbie !

Terry..I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU'RE DEFENDING mCcARTHY...;My goodness.....read your history..the man was a drunken boob...just an opportunist liar...a joke..an embarrassment to his state and country..

Jeeez!

I knew you were a righty but....wow...Joe McCarthy?!!!!...

Whew...didn't know there were any left like you!

Big Acoustic..

Read more carefully...bobby didn't take anything from you...thisis how she feels
It's just that you share some thoughts..
That's not stealing..that's agreeing

I get kidded alot about my liberal views..
bobbies husband, Dawg, was as far to the right as I am to the left.
Dawg, Bobbie and I would sit for untold hours in the little office in the front of their farmhouse and talk and joke about politics.
It was most often Bobbie and me against Dawg ( who would NEVER have said anything positive about the junior senator from Wisconsin)..
Dawg was a true Conservative, not just a knee jerk reactionary like so many of todays conservatives(yes, Terry...I'm talking to you..smiling while I do it)

Good, dialogue back and forth across idealogical lines was lots of fun for the three of us...too bad more folks don't get it.
My friend Joe has the right idea..(it hurts me to use the word "right")
I'm trying to keep myself cool....just waiting for Hillary to get in the race and then we'll have some real fun !

So....go ahead, Bobbie !

Bob Young

Hey, Bobby you sound like a sweet and very cool person...I like what you said. And find that I don't agree with you totally. But, I can understand why you may feel that way.
I hope I didn't come off too Machiavelian(sp).
I just saw some similarities in words. It could be total coincidence that your words are similar to mine. That’s why I have not posted a lot of my songs on here... for fear of that happening. I hope no hard feelings about it?
I take back the Sharky comment too.
We cool?

Big Acoustic
______________________________________________


I tend to be a real forgiving person, but really, Joanne Lurgio, you owe ME an apology!!!
(go back to the thread of when you and your cohorts verbally attacked my lyrics. Hence, ganging up on me... saying, to the effect of: "I agree Bill, Big Acoustic and his lyric does not belong on this site?" (which was the most offensive of all! Possibly, for any writer to try and endure!)Think about that? Has anyone said your lyrics don't belong on JPF?

It was your uproar that caused me to remove my lyric! But, John as level headed as he is, brought me back. John said it was a sad moment, and he was right.

I have to ask you, Isn't being Christian also showing love and acceptance? To show hate for me, for the words that I type on a screen is pretty darn shallow don't you think?
I'm sure all of us on JPF, if we were in the flesh and blood would appear completely different than we are imagened as typed words on YOUR home computer screen.
Sloooow Dooooown. Joanne.
You may never understand this... but at least I tried.

I'm not afraid of you Bill. So I need not tread lightly. Go ahead turn me into the Government. Bring on the 10,000 dollar fine.
I barely make enough to survive now.
Bill, You are a mean dude. Sir.
And a sad dude too.

Bill wrote about my song:
blah, blah, blah,
"...shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment
for not more than twenty years, or both.
Now ain't that scary.
And anyone thinks we ain't at war must be living in a vacuum."

Now that is just plain mean spirited.
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[This message has been edited by BigAcoustic (edited 03-10-2006).]

[This message has been edited by BigAcoustic (edited 03-10-2006).]

Folks, while we're on this political roll, let me throw out a Hillary thought. I really hope she does run, not because I want to say "pillory Hillary" a lot, but because it will be a challenge to both sides to express what they have to say about the issues surrounding her in a timeless fashion. I would (and probably will, when the time comes) submit that if people can't find something timeless to say, her campaign and election may well be irrelevant.

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm

P.S. Bob, you could always say "correct" instead of "right." It's okay. (And us rightwingers are always appreciative of the connection.) "Left," be it noted, does not have a similar approbative synonym. The only one that comes to mind is "sinister"...

j

My morning quick in out Bobbie.....


What made the 60s social awareness songs so good is that they focussed on one theme or event....


Ohio was Kent State, For What Its Worth was about protest marches and the police\national guard, Chicago was about the imfamous political convention....


It's also what I tried to do with my own "paying the cost of freedom" and "45 tons of tea"


I think it's more effective with one message and one message only...


So I'd say focus on the irony of soldiers fighting and dying for the right of free speech, but lose the global warming etc....


Ciao