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Hey Guys!

Frank and I just wanted to take a moment to thank each and every one of you who hung out for our show....some of you like Al and Becky, had been there ALL day from 2pm on and I know it was such a long day for you. It was such a joy to catch up with some of you who we haven't seen for awhile...Andy, Dan...Rich Garland and Betty.

We are so appreciative that so many of you stayed for our portion of the show. Bob Lever, we cannot thank you enough for your tireless efforts in promoting and creating this show for all of the talented artists involved. Winston...I know you're not on the BBs here, but Bob, please thank Winston again for being such a great soundman and working his butt off all day long to make not only us, but everyone sound great. To the staff of Java Junction, thank you too for being there for us and the patrons of the club.

To all of the artists involved, Barn, Freemont John, Jeff, Jak, The Burners, Sheila and Chris, JoDell, Bob, Jesse and Noah...thank you for sharing your music with us. You are ALL so talented and we know your music comes from the heart which makes it all the more special. I wish that we had been able to be there for more of the shows, but we had too much to do before we played including a dinner meeting.

Our portion of the show came off very well and most of all, it was a lot of fun. I'm sure many of you are dying to know how Chris reacted to it.

As it stands now, we had breakfast with him this morning. Chris really loved the show and thought it ROCKED. He is 100% behind us and we are 100% behind him. This guy is such a gentleman, a knowledgeable businessman and a person who will tell you exactly what he can and cannot do. He will also honestly tell you what you have going for you and what needs work if anything. To sum it up: he is a pleasure to be around personally and professionally in every respect. As for his professional opinion: He feels we are almost completely there on image, sound, songs everything....just a little fine tuning and we're ready to showcase for some labels! This will likely occur in January according to his and our current plans. More details will come when we speak with him more on Tuesday and we'll let you guys know as the story unfolds.

By the way, Chris will be down here again October 5th for another NSAI workshop in Tampa at the library on Interbay Blvd. Please come if you can!! We will be there.

Anyway, much love and many thanks to all of you in the JPF group and to our band, Rockin Rudy, Dave, Dammit Jim, Jim Terry and Elan Chalford -- without all of whom, this rocking showcase would not have been possible. As I said on stage last night...all artists and touring musicians have a very dedicated and hardworking team of friends, family, fans, technical people and musicians and each and every one is pivotal to their success.
We are so lucky to be here with a wonderful group of people in Tampa Bay networking and sharing art and music together.

We are always successful and EVERY SINGLE ONE of us are shining stars -- as long as we have eachother. Our heartfelt thanks again and much love.

Cindy and Frank
NORTH 2 SOUTH




[This message has been edited by Cindy LaRosa (edited 09-04-2005).]

cool cindy! glad too hear it went well! i had a good time opening the show and will gladly do it again! it was also nice to see the faces of tampa bay again. congrats to bob lever and winston for pulling this off. till the next time.....barn.

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www.barkinbarney.com

Very well done to some truly talented "folks." I am still bitter that I was away in the Panhandle on business the day of the show. I was thinking of you guys all day. Hard work and ethics do pay off, eh?

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Steve Dockendorf
"Quality music for quality people"
dockendorf2000@yahoo.com
www.soundclick.com/stevedockendorf

North 2 South was shining for sure. What an absolutely professional sound you guys had up there.Man can you guys pull in the best musicians in town.Top notch execution of your top notch songs.
Everyone who performed that day was on their game. Good show with some of Tampa Bay best.
Keep Strummin' Al
www.aandrproductions.com

Hi Cindy and Frank,

Your welcome.

Your show was awesome just awesome.

Best of luck to the both of you!

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JoDell
jodellsmusic.com
Believe in yourself and your dreams will come true!

Hi Steve!
We missed you and I'm glad you were with us in spirit...and yep. There is NO doubt about it that hard work and ethics most certainly do pay off in the end. The show was not only a really good one (we got some GREAT video and audio footage) but also some of the most fun we've had doing one of these shows because we really rehearsed and did our homework to make it all it could be.

Again, Al...thank you for being there. You and Becky are the heart and soul of this Chapter of JPF -- your support (you guys were there ALL day from 2pm on) is just amazing and we so appreciate it and your kind words.

Hi, JoDell! You and Bob did a super job too. You both have some really good songs and your band sounded great. Thank you both for putting together your show (I know it was NO small feat working it up) and sharing your music with all of us.

The crowd was not a big one during any part of the day, but every single person who came throughout the day or showed up at night REALLY ENJOYED the music they heard and that is what counts.

See you all soon!

Cindy

I want to take this oppurntunity also to say thank you all for the wonderful job you all did. Every performer from Barney, Jeff O'Kelly,Fremont John, Jak Kelly, The Burners, Sheila, JoDell, N2S, and Jesse and Noah did an absolutely wonderful job of putting on a show. It was a lot of work and in the end it was all worth it. Yes we could have had a lot more people. But we will do it again, I don't know when, but it will happen.

Robin and Winston did a great job of preparing for the event and were ready for anything.

I don't know why there weren't more people but as far as I am concerned the ones that were there were the winners.

Again, Thank You all very much for being a part of one of the best shows I have been a part of in a long time.



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Bob Lever
727-278-6168
615-497-7485

Hey Bob,
Thank you so much for having Chris and me. We had a wonderful time and I think everyone did such an awesome job!

Cindy and Frank, your set kicked butt and I'm thrilled for you guys. All the best to you and keep us posted on what's happening. Can't wait to hear all about it.

Take care.
-Sheila

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Sheila Kirsten Hughes - www.skhughes.com
voice that's both powerful and delicate, incredible range both vocally and stylistically�what's not to love!"
�Jewel's Soul City Cafe

Nubzilla's Cafe www.nubzilla.com - Indulge in the Arts!

hey bob! again thanks buddy for allowing me to do my thang! anytime .anyplace. i'll open em' all! hell it worked for ritchie havens!!lol!! i know the time and effort it takes to do this, and ya'll did a great job. let's support java junction and have our meetings there. al? they would treat us right and we won't have sports or smoking issues. we would all agree it's worth the drive to be treated right. and the place is perfect for our kind of group. (i'm still in the group i hope!) please consider this if you haven't already. jj has got my vote...(for what it's worth). love, barn.

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www.barkinbarney.com

I vote for Java Junction too...Al I hope you will consider this idea. I know you've already spoken to Bob Lever about it. What a great venue with NO sports to interfere, no smoking issues as Barn pointed out and a great stage for all to share their music with everyone.

You could't ask for a better place to host JPF if you ordered one out of a catalog. And since Bob's a JPF'r...well, what more could you ask for!! Anyone else??

Cindy

[This message has been edited by Cindy LaRosa (edited 09-07-2005).]

I'm all for it. I vote Java Junction too!

Friends,
I loved the venue. I also had a conversation with Robin about the possibility of hosting a JPF event there on the 25th. Here are the details.
Java Junction usually doesnt open on Sundays except for private affairs. If we were to ask them to host us on a Sunday we would all have to make it worth their while by bringing in friends and ordering from their menue with beverage etc. The reality is that its a business and this is their regular day off and if we come in and ask them to open for us its only right that we are prepared to make it worth their while.
And please don't get me wrong, Robin offered to open I just want it to be good for all involved.

Now here is something to think about.
We went to The Music Spot and although many of you don't know this, let me share. Last month I contacted them and asked to come back for August. They replied by saying that as much as they liked us we would have to guarentee that we would spend $700.00
Thats just business but you know what, I can't guarentee that. I am surprised however that we didnt spend at least that. I know that every time I host a showcase Im there from 2:30 setting up till 10:30 at least tearing out and my tab averages at least 50 dollars..At Least. We average 40 folks in and out sometimes as many as 70 but Im not going to guarentee or it ultimately comes out of my pocket. I wish I could guarentee a minimum of 30 folks to come out but I cant even get people to return my e-mails asking them to respond to issues on this board. BUT....Many still do come out without responding first. Whats the answer? Why was the show light in attendance last Saturday when Bob put his butt on the line to put a whole showcase of his fellow artists on stage? I honestly don't know. Laziness and apathy are the only logical answers.
I was also talking with The Dunedin Brewery last month to try and get us in there and the manager just couldnt get enough staff to step up and volunteer to work.
Help me rally support and we will have the next meeting at Java Junction. Help me to get folks responding on this board so that when we get there on their regular day off its worth their while and we can walk out with our heads up.
You who have consistantly communicated on this board are the backbone of this chapter. Your the ones that helped make us chapter of the year. Lets talk.
Keep Strummin' Al
www.aandrproductions.com
P.S. Hey Cindy lets do our Holiday Party there this year, for sure. Lets set a date ASAP and reserve the place ASAP.

I have to agree with Al on this one. All the people I see taliking about this are the same people that are showing up and doing things to support JPF no matter where the meetings would be held. I know that I haven't been active in this chapter long but I have noticed a consistent flow of conversation from the same people. I don't have a solution, obviously from the turnout last week, but I would be willing to try and help find one. Maybe a few of us could get together before the next meeting and have a discussion and decide a plan of action.

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Bob Lever
727-278-6168
615-497-7485

Java Junction would be a way cool place to have a meeting.Plenty of room for everything and everybody plus the food is good and reasonably priced.Service is also excellent.Couldn't ask for a better place to have a meeting.I will be there when given a time and date.I will do what ever it takes to help make this work.

Jerry


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Jerry Jakala

I know that most every activity we do within this group is free, but what if: #1. Robin was wiling to open up Java Junction for us one Sunday per month to host the meetings (this could be considered a "private engagement") and in exchange we EACH agree either that we will all order food and drinks AND bring some people in to guarantee their profits for opening up and staff fees are covered OR we each agree to donate $5 per person who shows up. If say 30 of us showed up and we each donated $5 "cover charge" or "dues" or whatever you wanna call it, that's $150 bucks right there. Any food or beverage orders on top of that would surely equate to enough money to cover being opened for a part of the day.

This is just a rough idea...and only if it would work for everyone involved AND for Robin.

The problem we face is that most clubs and bars have only ONE thing that keeps them going on Sundays - and that is SPORTS. That is really the only driving force behind Sunday business so it's very hard to find somewhere to play that is large enough and it's really feasible for THEM monatarily.

So perhaps all of us pitching in with a small donation could help things no matter where we end up??? Especially if it's Java.

Chime in folks!
Any other input??
Cindy

i'd say we all pay dues . or a donation. $5 is very fair. you're right sports is a sunday thing. wow $700.00? that's alot of cash!! nobody should have to guarentee that kinda money. i would gladly pay, and attend the java junction meetings. barn.

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www.barkinbarney.com

Upon further review....
I say we just all help to pack the place. Thats what it's all about anyway. The whole idea is supposed to be about the music and networking. Last month Kathryn Stafford and Mike Worrall volunteered to call a bunch of folks on my list. If those folks loyal on the boards here would reach out and help and put the word out to friends we wouldnt even have to think about donations. Besides by us bringing in new folks who are not familiar with the place we give Java Junction or wherever we showcase allot of exposure they would not other wise have had.
Keep Strummin' Al

Sorry Cindy,
You struk upon one of my pet peeves.
Look at all the places we (Tampa Chapter JPF ) have held our meetings. I know most all involved have purchaced whatever the venue have had to offer, Provided FREE entertainment for any other patrons that have shown up, wether by invitation, or walk ins. And made a lot of $ for the venue without asking for anything but a place to ply our trades.
Most places have to pay at least the host of an open mike something. To do anything else would purely be not ethical.
I have grown very tired of venues that will use all the FREE entertainment they can get,
That is one of the primary reasons, live music suffers . If they can get it for FREE, or very little, Why Pay??
Think about it.
I know very few Florida musicians that can really make a "Living " at music in this, or for that matter, any other state because of this .
I hope I'm not venting too much, I know there are a bunch of folks that need the stage time to hone their craft, but why should the venue not Share the wealth?
Just one of my pet peeves.
PS,
You guys did a GREAT JOB at Java Junction, and, woah, thank you Bob Lever, We all got Paid!!
Jak

Lots of interesting points here...hope you don't mind me adding to the dialog.

I understand Jak's frustration with venues. I spent nearly 10 years on the road, and met plenty of club owners who wanted something for nothing. Also, given Jak's talent, I can understand that a guy who is as excellent performer as he is would be a little pissed to pony up money for something that he is usually paid for.

That said, I think we have a little different dynamic with our JPF meetings. JPF members represent the vast majority of the audience at our monthly meetings. I wouldn't have a problem kicking in $5-$10 knowing that I, and everybody else, benefit by having the highest quality perfomance elements possible...stage, sound, lighting, no smoking, cold beer, etc.

$10 is a small amount of money to pay for a pleasant experince as both performer and audience member. That's not giving the owner a freebie, it's optimizing our experience. It can also be a method of separating the wheat from the chaff.

Finally, given my level of proficiency as a performer, I'm not shocked at the prospect of having to pay for an audience :-)

Mike Worrall

jak. jpf should be a place for performers to get better, ,kind encouraging words.a fellowship, if you will. not pro's looking for gigs. there is a beach on the west coast that folks have been making a living playing for 50 yrs. (playing covers mostly.)for that. i always felt jpf was a brotherhood of people all trying to show new songs and network, trying to make friends etc.yeah some players are great and polished performers but the majority are newbies, and need support and encouragement.(like myself) we are lucky the venues have let us in . not the other way around. we should start a fresh thread on this subject. it's a good one. let's go to the java junction. most of us spend at least 10.00 a-piece on that sunday.but i can feel your frustration. and respect your opionin(sp), love, barn.

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www.barkinbarney.com

Hi there. Chiming in here. I was not able to attend this event cause I was out of town, my loss. But I have been at many meetings at different venues and I beleive that a quality venue is a very important aspect in our showcases. I was a regular for a while at Beaux Arts for the open mic, many of you know that place. We always were asked to give a donation of $3 to $5 at the door. I am sure that some gave more than that and some gave nothing, cool either way. I know that Java is a commericial venue and Beaux was a private venue, but, what if we do both? What if we ask for a voluntary donation of $5 at the door for those who choose to, and also bust our butts to bring people in and buy some food and drinks too? This way, it is a personal choice for everyone, and we give ourselves three different ways to build our business for the venue and become more important to them. I hear what Jak is saying, however I don't see it as giving anything away, I see it as building a home for all of us, and many more to come, to play and share our music. If we stay put long enough, we might actually become a "destination" for audiences to hear genuine creativity.

Kathryn Stafford

well said kathyrn.

Many totally valid points made here. The economics have to be confronted and dealt with as they do in every other venture. I am continually amazed by the amount that gets accomplished by this organization and it yet remains a FREE organization. I did just notice, though, that our Founder has been promoting JPF tee shirt sales as a means to help meet the inevitable costs of the club's continued existence. Nothing wrong with that. My esteemed view on the venue deal is that better promotion is more favorable than charging the members a fee. And a particular element of marketing may be missing.

For those not familiar with the term "positioning" it is the rapid intruduction of an unfamiliar item by comparison with another item that is already familiar. For instance, the "Uncola" means nothing to a person who has no familiarity with what a "cola" is. Avis's "We're Number Two so we try harder" campaign would not work in an area where there was no awareness of Number One (Hertz) or what a "number one" was. My mistake in telling friends about JPF and our meetings is that it seems to be all about the members playing for each other. This excludes most of my friends. Why would they want to barge in on a meeting of a bunch of songwriters playing for each other? Not correctly positioned. On the other hand, who would not love to go back in time and see the Beatles playing the clubs in Hamburg before they "made it"? I may be the only one making this mistake, but if the shoe fits . . . I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen spectacular sports figures before they hit the major leagues - I had the great pleasure of seeing NY Yankee pitcher, Mike Mussina before he was a Yankee, before he was an Oriole, when he was a minor league pitcher in Frederick, Maryland. So from now on, I'll be talking up JPF meetings as a showcase of extremely talented entertainers BEFORE they hit it big (ok, Big Jim, in some cases, AFTER they hit it big) that music lovers should NOT WANT TO MISS.

I hope this helps.

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Steve Dockendorf
"Quality music for quality people"
dockendorf2000@yahoo.com
www.soundclick.com/stevedockendorf

I think Barney made some very important points here.

If a venue is willing to open their doors on their ONLY day off for a special engagement, then we need to really LOOK at the monetary numbers involved here. The club may or may not get any other patrons than us. So their sole income may rely on us. Can we provide via ordering some food and drinks enough money to cover not just them opening up the building (electricity, lighting etc.) but to pay the salary of any staff they needed to bring in for the day??

This is not about just US. We have to honestly look at numbers here. I can tell you from experience, that my father was a restaurant and nightclub owner and I grew up in the business and these bands and entertainers who continuously bitch that they are not being paid well enough, need to first look at themselves. Club's overheads are HUGE. It is not cheap to run a business or pay the staff AND bands and/or good entertainment unless you are generating one hell of a business. (Keep in mind that bad bands or entertainment can KILL your business too.) Many businesses have million dollar plus business loans or have multiple partnerships to help cover costs. (A full-liquor licence alone is unbelieveably expensive. I don't know how much these days but possibly upwards of $100K. Beer and wine licence is much cheaper but it is still costly).

What is boils down to is that WE and the clubs or venues are not against eachother. WE are a TEAM working together. That in mind, we as entertainers have to look at: HOW MANY PATRONS ARE YOU PERSONALLY PULLING INTO THE VENUE - whether on a gig or in this case for JPF or whatever?? Did you pull enough people to pay for yourself?? For instance, take a 4-piece band that charges $400 per night. That's ALOT of drinks to be sold. If you only pulled ten people in the house who each drank 3 beers, do you think that paid for not only your band but also all the staff's and manager's salary, the rent, the electricity, the monthly liquor bill?? I don't think so. You'd better be pulling at least 30 - 40 who are drinking and eating well. These are things that don't apply to JPF as a
"band working on a weekend" but it's some food for thought for ALL musicians out there and it IS applicable for Java opening on a Sunday for US. WE are responsible for our own promotion and product that we deliver.

Many of you are not aware that Bob Lever lost about $2K (yes, TWO GRAND) the other day out of his OWN pocket to put on that show we all enjoyed so much but was not remotely covered by ticket sales. I can relate quite well as you all enjoyed our portion of the show. Well being ethical employers, we did not expect some of the best musicians in Tampa Bay to come in and rehearse OUR songs to do OUR showcase for free or for rock bottom rate of $100/man for just show day. Shows that polished don't just "happen". It takes work. And it takes money. These guys were paid wages (and I mean decent ones) for ALL rehearsals AND for day of show!! So we ended up spending roughly $1500 out of OUR own pocket for what you saw the other night. (We opted to forego being paid by Bob to help cover the cost of the show and help him pay you guys who do not get to play paying gigs as much as we do. I'm not telling you this to pat us on the back, but to create a better understanding of numbers and what exactly BOB went through to make this show happen for everyone involved.) Good entertainment is not free. Someone ALWAYS pays for it whether the club owner or promoter or the band themselves. And as was evidenced the other night...the club does not always make enough to cover paying for it, so someone else like Bob does it out of caring for the music community or insanity!! (Bob, we're right there with you pard. Where's my white jacket. LOL)

In the end we all have to look at this from a give and take viewpoint.

We would not in essence be "paying for an audience" as Mike put it...it's more about "renting a venue" to ensure that their expenses for opening up just for us on their day off is covered! But that might only need to be in the beginning for a few meetings! IF we could grow it into some sort of an EVENT each and every month that was drawing people in the door who were staying and enjoying the show and buying food and drinks, then we could perhaps work out a deal where it was no longer necessary for us to pay for our own space because WE had generated a viable product for Java Junction. THAT is fair exchange.

Anyway...that's just my ten cents from not only a musician's perspective, but a business perspective as well.

Much Love to you all and thank you for speaking up here!
Cindy

[This message has been edited by Cindy LaRosa (edited 09-08-2005).]

Hi, here's my two cents on venues for JPF metings. We have a mix ranging from amateurs to semi-pros, and we also have a mix of styles of music that prople create and perform, so it's not really appropriate to consider us *entertainment* for a venue. I think it's more like a company that has an awards party once a year, so they rent a room at the Holiday Inn. Or it's like a wedding. Think about it. If a venue wants entertainment, they know what style they want, and the also select out who they think is going to attract people to come, or to stay after they've arrived. They wouldn't ordinarily let a whole hodge podge of performers in the door.

Because of that, I'm afraid we all have to be willing to shell something out for somebody to be nice enough to let us make noise at their place. Either that or do it at somebody's house.

Another thing to add is that I notice 99% of the focus this past year has been on showcasing for each other. But back when we started, we also had interesting guest speakers with information to share on various aspects of the music business. So #1, I wish we had more of that these days, and #2 because I think we should, that is another bullet in my argument that we are not there to entertain people in sombody's restaurant/bar. We are there to MEET, exchange information, ideas, help, etc. Not just to play our music on a stage.

I agree with Jak in the sense that if a skilled artist is performing for free, it constitutes a great GIFT he is giving. But I think when we come to a JPF meeting and decide to play, that has to be the spirit of it. I'm sure many new artists have learned from watching Jak do his thing up there. That's the whole purpose of JPF, isn't it?

So, incidentally, I vote for Java Junction as a place to meet, and we should work out with Bob L. what would be a good amount to guarantee that expenses are covered, and any additional help from non-JPF members.

Frank

Hi again (he says with his tail tucked firmly between his legs)
I agree that when we have our showcases in places that are normally closed on the days of our meetings, we should pony up for the privelege , I was railing at the places that are normaly open for business and , yes, they have to put up with a bunch of sometimes crazy musician types, But , as a whole, I think , in these situations we tend to be well behaved, provide a variety of talent, and generally the places don't suffer for us being there.
I agree with Frank that I miss the "guest speakers" we used to have. I've made a bunch of very close friends at our meets and would not trade the experience for anything.
If Having our meets at Java Junction means having to come up with a few $, I'm all for it, but places like Jonny G's (whatever its called now)have a built in clientel and we just add to their coffers.
I guess that makes this my 4 cents worth.
Jak

I remember when Chris and I first joined up with JPF about a year ago. I emailed Al and asked "what is the membership fee?" and was really surprised when I found out there wasn't one.

This is a really good topic that can be argued from both sides very easily.

When Chris and I first started Nubzilla's Cafe, we had to make a decision whether to charge the artists we feature on the site or to make it free. Running Nubzilla's Cafe costs us money. There's not avoiding that. And at one point we considered charging the artists a small sign-up fee or monthly fee in order to cover a portion of the costs. After a lot of consideration, we decided we'd foot the bill because we didn't want to discourage anyone from sending us their stuff so we could feature them. Sadly, even $5 bucks can stand in the way, and I'd hate to see some of Tampa's most talented artists go unnoticed by Nubzilla because of a meager $5. But the fact remains, it still costs us money.

When we've done Nubzilla's Cafe Artists Showcases in downtown Clearwater in the past, it has never ceased to amaze me how much it takes in time and resources to make it all happen. Our day starts at 8am, then ends around 2am, that's 14 hours. Then add in the time and cost for promoting the event. It adds up real quick. The City of Clearwater has not paid us to do these showcases, and we in turn cannot offer to pay the musicians that perform at them. Sure, we think their performance is worth something and would love to pay them for it. But it's just a matter of what can and can't be done. So, I am very sensitive to what it takes to make it an event like the one Bob put on at Java Junction happen. You'd be amazed!

So, I agree. We have to keep everyone's best interests in mind, even the venues. I'm one would argue that venues should pay for talented musicians to perform. I see too many venues that CAN pay their musicians well that do not because so many have offered to do it for little to nothing, so why should they pay? On the other hand, there are a lot of smaller venues that would love to pay their musicians well but just can't afford it. And unfortunately, a lot of larger, more corporate venues are going to take advantage of the situation. If a musician prices himself low so he can play at the mom and pop venue and the larger corporate venue hears about it, they're likely to say "Well, I want it for that amount too" because they don't accept the notion that you're not pricing yourself low because that's all your worth, you're pricing yourself low because the mom and pop shop doesn't have the resources to do any better and you like to play there.

As for me, I would not have any problem paying $5 every time we go to a JPF meeting. $10 is a little much in my opinion though. If there's 2 of you and you're gonna buy food and drinks too, your bill can add up real quick! And if you're an artist on a budget like we are, spending $50+ in one setting for food and networking is a little pricey.

I am concerned though that other members may be discouraged from attending even for $5. A couple of my friends play out in the area for a living, and $5 may seem like a lot of money to them. The difference between getting gas to get to their gig or not. So, we have to keep this in mind.

I don't know the answer, but I figure I'd just throw what I know out there so we can all come to a conclusion that's best for everyone.

I think I'm up to 5� now.

[This message has been edited by Nubzilla (edited 09-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Nubzilla (edited 09-08-2005).]

Sheila,
You have some very valid points here. I know too well the games clubs play with musicians being willing to work for little or nothing and it pushes other bands out of work. The only way one can swallow that bitter pill is to view it as THE CLUB'S loss. That is where it comes down to "you get what you pay for."

As for the donation suggestion: this is why it's important to note my suggestion that IF we did Java and IF we charged say $5 per person...IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FOREVER!!

IF WE CAN GENERATE ENOUGH BUSINESS VIA PROMOTION and bringing our own friends and family if possible TO PULL SOME PEOPLE IN THE DOOR TO COVER THE COST, THEN A DONATION FROM ALL OF US WOULD NO LONGER BE NECESSARY. They would have made enough money to cover the day all on their own and with our help to make it more than just a JPF meeting for us. It would be a day of business for them.

So in the end the ball would be in OUR court to help make that happen.

Cindy



[This message has been edited by Cindy LaRosa (edited 09-08-2005).]

I think Java Junction is a good place to have meetings and it has my vote. I have no problem paying a $5 cover charge per meeting.

I also agree with Frank that we focus WAY TOO MUCH on showcasing. We are most all songwriters and have each learned a lot about the business. We could help each other a lot more by sharing this info so we don't all have to duplicate the same efforts and make the same mistakes than we can by simply watching each other showcase. I know myself that I have been to one recording conference (New Orleans), one music business conference (Tampa), five songwriter conferences (all Nashville), and a number of music festivals this year alone. But few seem interested in all the stuff I learned. I also know JoDell, Jules, Frank and Cindy, Kathryn, Jak, Jeff O'Kelly and others have done stuff I would like to learn more about. I have learned a lot about the business and craft of songwriting from private discussions with Kathryn, Dan, Jules, JoDell, and others. This is a fantastic opportunity to save time and money and jumpstart all our songwriting efforts by exchanging info with each other. That is without getting any outside guest speakers.

I tried to set up some of these bull sessions when the chapter first started, but turnout was abysmal. Some of you are probably tired of hearing me harp on this subject.

All that said, I won't be able to make this month's meeting because my parent's 50th wedding anniversary is the same weekend, so I be in PA.

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Stone Marmot
experimental pop-rock
www.stonemarmot.com
www.soundclick.com/stonemarmot.htm

Hello all,
I have read almost all of the posts here regarding the Java Junction gig and options and opinions for the next meeting/showcase and even ome of the slighted heated discussions regarding support, etc.

I actually have some things to say. I was out of town last weekend and will be out of town this weekend as well so I cannot spend a lot of time right now with this particular post.

That being said, I briefly will say the follwing:

I will support ANYONE ANYTIME musically or otherwise in JPF (or not) where I can. I am in the same boat as many of you.

I am a part-time working musician myself and do not always post my gigs on the board. Why? you ask? I know many other JPF musicians are working simultaneously and could not reasonably expect you guys to be there to support me every time.

Please do not misunderstand this one: I have noticed that when there is a (mostly) JPF "musicianed" event, all of the same people perform pretty much every time. I have yet to be even asked to perform a single song to open one of your events. I know most of you now and admire and respect all of you and know these shows would be great indeed. I would love to see all of you do your crafts live but I try to play as well.

HONESTLY...this is truly not sour grapes. I promise. However, I often attempt to make plans to play somewhere...even for free...on any given weekend. As Andy said, we are trying to do someting here with our talents and crafts...and I even just enjoy playing for FREE...sometimes for an empty room!! I just love playing music and if the bartender is wiping glasses and requeting songs (because he/she HAS to be there for their job, so be it) CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. Don't get me wrong, I love playing for a whole room of appreciative music listeners, etc as well.

I think a membership dues kinda thing might help alleviate some of the problems.

MOre to come...gotta run.

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Alex Wolfe Parnes/Canis Lupus Productions
www.canislupusmusic.com

Hi,
I have been away from the list for a little bit and I just got through reading all the comments on this issue.
I don't play in the Tampa Bay/St Pete area that much but the problems with club owners are everywhere and down here in the new fronteer it is the same old story. Coming to the meetings and listening and watching other writers has helped me alot. The cross pollenation between the artists, pro and amateur, within this club is an amazing thing to watch. I have always said that if you go to a jam and don't learn something then you aren't paying attention.
With that said it takes about $25 in gas, more or less, for to make it up to the meetings now. I have NO PROBLEM with throwing in a few bucks to pacify a club owner so we can get together. If we go ahead with the idea of kicking in a few bucks to grease the wheels then I would like evey now and then having a guest speaker of some kind. Now I'm not saying that you HAVE to have some kind of special guest EACH and EVERY meeting. Please don't forget that wherever we go we bring along live original music in many many forms. We are a very unique and diverse group of people. This JPF chapter is one hell of a Traveling Road Show.



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James
www.JRHawkins.com

Hi Gang,
Becky and I have been very involved in preparing the house for a party we just wrapped for my father in laws 80th birthday.About 100 guests with Jim Mason hired as entertainment with your's truley on auxilary percussion and backing vocals.We have family from out of town and have been overwhelmed with it all. Didnt mean to leave this hanging.
First let me make it clear that Java Junction made NO request for monies or any minimum. I don't want to be unfair to them by confusing what another venue felt neccessary to open on a regularly schedualed day off. I really think the answer is that we all concentrate on having stronger turn outs. Folks will eat and drink and spend money the rest will fall in line.
This chapter has thrived and grown and been inspirational to allot of local performers and I would hate to see things spoiled by dealing with a money issue.
Keep Strummin' Al

Howdy,

If you need another vote on Java Junction you have mine.

Whether there is a donation or not is fine with me.

Welcome back to the boards Al. Wow! sounds like a great party.

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JoDell
jodellsmusic.com
Believe in yourself and your dreams will come true!

Thoughts from a relative newbie:

I've been following this topic through the fog of a head cold that may or may not have receded enough for me to offer a coherent take on things. Different people look for different things from JPF, spanning the spectrum from serious career goals to first time public performances. The one common denominator that I find is the comraderie of a diverse, supportive musical community. I personally have no problem with a $3 to $5 dollar charge (my tab for food and drink usually exceeds this) but I have concerns for the potential attendees/performers that this might keep from the meetings. I think Andy's idea of a networking meeting is a great idea for another seperate night of the month (second Monday, first Tuesday - any night when working musicians are usually off). Al, I've just read your entry about how we don't necessarily have to get into a membership or entrance fee situation and you are the one that has to deal with finding a monthly tent for this circus. You probably know better that anyone - how do the other chapters deal with this?

Still strummin',

Jeff Blake

Jeff and Folks,
Good question. From what I understand Nashville's Coordinator Terry Lynn hosts meeting/showcases at her home, so no issue. Folks bring dishes and drinks etc. Some chapters choose to meet at community centers like a library or civic center.I think that its up to the vision of the local chapter. Brian says that every chapter will develop its own personality. I agree. The reason that we meet at the type of venues that we do is a direct reflection on my vision that I hope most of us would share. Going into this Mikey and I would brainstorm and thought,this should be fun. It should be educational not only in the mechanics of music but also in the spirit of performing and gaining experience on the stage. In order to accomodate folks for an entire afternoon food and drink should be available. Then we took it to the next step and decided that a full blown stage with p.a. lights, and the ambiance where the best in town play would offer a flavor of success.Our membership has grown and changed and developed a life of its own and I would hope that the day when I can no longer be involved it would continue to flourish. We have many very talented, smart and inspirational folks amongst us.This coming year I would love to see guest speakers at every meeting. That takes time so maybe we could have a committee or two spring up from the membership. Any productive ideas are welcome we just have to share the load and be consistant on the commitment.
Ideas...keep it coming, this is all good.
Keep Strummin' Al
www.aandrproductions.com

Hi Folkies,
Just to let you know I spoke with Winston a couple of days ago in regards to hosting our September meeting at Java J. There was some conversation about a possible minimum on a buffet. I danced around it. I know that some of us can handle and accept a minimum or donation but I know for a fact if that becomes an issue we will have a dramatic drop in support. I'll follow up agin with them today and catch you up on any updates. In the meantime, any suggestions on alternative venues?
Please stay tuned.
Keep Strummin' Al
www.aandrproductions.com

Cindy, Any updates on Nashville with Chris?
Becky and I are very excited for you.

[This message has been edited by Al The Pal (edited 09-14-2005).]

******* PLEASE READ*******

THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT THREAD BUT SO THAT OTHERS CAN EASILY FIND INFO ABOUT OUR SEPTEMBER 05 MEETING AND SHOWCASE I AM STATRING A NEW THREAD ENTITELED
"TAMPA JPF SEPT. SHOWCASE AT JAVA JUNCTION"
SEE YOU THERE...AL